☀️ JOIN SPN MOBILE
Forums
New posts
Guru Granth Sahib
Composition, Arrangement & Layout
ਜਪੁ | Jup
ਸੋ ਦਰੁ | So Dar
ਸੋਹਿਲਾ | Sohilaa
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ | Raag Siree-Raag
Gurbani (14-53)
Ashtpadiyan (53-71)
Gurbani (71-74)
Pahre (74-78)
Chhant (78-81)
Vanjara (81-82)
Vaar Siri Raag (83-91)
Bhagat Bani (91-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਝ | Raag Maajh
Gurbani (94-109)
Ashtpadi (109)
Ashtpadiyan (110-129)
Ashtpadi (129-130)
Ashtpadiyan (130-133)
Bara Maha (133-136)
Din Raen (136-137)
Vaar Maajh Ki (137-150)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗਉੜੀ | Raag Gauree
Gurbani (151-185)
Quartets/Couplets (185-220)
Ashtpadiyan (220-234)
Karhalei (234-235)
Ashtpadiyan (235-242)
Chhant (242-249)
Baavan Akhari (250-262)
Sukhmani (262-296)
Thittee (296-300)
Gauree kii Vaar (300-323)
Gurbani (323-330)
Ashtpadiyan (330-340)
Baavan Akhari (340-343)
Thintteen (343-344)
Vaar Kabir (344-345)
Bhagat Bani (345-346)
ਰਾਗੁ ਆਸਾ | Raag Aasaa
Gurbani (347-348)
Chaupaday (348-364)
Panchpadde (364-365)
Kaafee (365-409)
Aasaavaree (409-411)
Ashtpadiyan (411-432)
Patee (432-435)
Chhant (435-462)
Vaar Aasaa (462-475)
Bhagat Bani (475-488)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੂਜਰੀ | Raag Goojaree
Gurbani (489-503)
Ashtpadiyan (503-508)
Vaar Gujari (508-517)
Vaar Gujari (517-526)
ਰਾਗੁ ਦੇਵਗੰਧਾਰੀ | Raag Dayv-Gandhaaree
Gurbani (527-536)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਹਾਗੜਾ | Raag Bihaagraa
Gurbani (537-556)
Chhant (538-548)
Vaar Bihaagraa (548-556)
ਰਾਗੁ ਵਡਹੰਸ | Raag Wadhans
Gurbani (557-564)
Ashtpadiyan (564-565)
Chhant (565-575)
Ghoriaan (575-578)
Alaahaniiaa (578-582)
Vaar Wadhans (582-594)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੋਰਠਿ | Raag Sorath
Gurbani (595-634)
Asatpadhiya (634-642)
Vaar Sorath (642-659)
ਰਾਗੁ ਧਨਾਸਰੀ | Raag Dhanasaree
Gurbani (660-685)
Astpadhiya (685-687)
Chhant (687-691)
Bhagat Bani (691-695)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ | Raag Jaitsree
Gurbani (696-703)
Chhant (703-705)
Vaar Jaitsaree (705-710)
Bhagat Bani (710)
ਰਾਗੁ ਟੋਡੀ | Raag Todee
ਰਾਗੁ ਬੈਰਾੜੀ | Raag Bairaaree
ਰਾਗੁ ਤਿਲੰਗ | Raag Tilang
Gurbani (721-727)
Bhagat Bani (727)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸੂਹੀ | Raag Suhi
Gurbani (728-750)
Ashtpadiyan (750-761)
Kaafee (761-762)
Suchajee (762)
Gunvantee (763)
Chhant (763-785)
Vaar Soohee (785-792)
Bhagat Bani (792-794)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਿਲਾਵਲੁ | Raag Bilaaval
Gurbani (795-831)
Ashtpadiyan (831-838)
Thitteen (838-840)
Vaar Sat (841-843)
Chhant (843-848)
Vaar Bilaaval (849-855)
Bhagat Bani (855-858)
ਰਾਗੁ ਗੋਂਡ | Raag Gond
Gurbani (859-869)
Ashtpadiyan (869)
Bhagat Bani (870-875)
ਰਾਗੁ ਰਾਮਕਲੀ | Raag Ramkalee
Ashtpadiyan (902-916)
Gurbani (876-902)
Anand (917-922)
Sadd (923-924)
Chhant (924-929)
Dakhnee (929-938)
Sidh Gosat (938-946)
Vaar Ramkalee (947-968)
ਰਾਗੁ ਨਟ ਨਾਰਾਇਨ | Raag Nat Narayan
Gurbani (975-980)
Ashtpadiyan (980-983)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਲੀ ਗਉੜਾ | Raag Maalee Gauraa
Gurbani (984-988)
Bhagat Bani (988)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਾਰੂ | Raag Maaroo
Gurbani (889-1008)
Ashtpadiyan (1008-1014)
Kaafee (1014-1016)
Ashtpadiyan (1016-1019)
Anjulian (1019-1020)
Solhe (1020-1033)
Dakhni (1033-1043)
ਰਾਗੁ ਤੁਖਾਰੀ | Raag Tukhaari
Bara Maha (1107-1110)
Chhant (1110-1117)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕੇਦਾਰਾ | Raag Kedara
Gurbani (1118-1123)
Bhagat Bani (1123-1124)
ਰਾਗੁ ਭੈਰਉ | Raag Bhairo
Gurbani (1125-1152)
Partaal (1153)
Ashtpadiyan (1153-1167)
ਰਾਗੁ ਬਸੰਤੁ | Raag Basant
Gurbani (1168-1187)
Ashtpadiyan (1187-1193)
Vaar Basant (1193-1196)
ਰਾਗੁ ਸਾਰਗ | Raag Saarag
Gurbani (1197-1200)
Partaal (1200-1231)
Ashtpadiyan (1232-1236)
Chhant (1236-1237)
Vaar Saarang (1237-1253)
ਰਾਗੁ ਮਲਾਰ | Raag Malaar
Gurbani (1254-1293)
Partaal (1265-1273)
Ashtpadiyan (1273-1278)
Chhant (1278)
Vaar Malaar (1278-91)
Bhagat Bani (1292-93)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਾਨੜਾ | Raag Kaanraa
Gurbani (1294-96)
Partaal (1296-1318)
Ashtpadiyan (1308-1312)
Chhant (1312)
Vaar Kaanraa
Bhagat Bani (1318)
ਰਾਗੁ ਕਲਿਆਨ | Raag Kalyaan
Gurbani (1319-23)
Ashtpadiyan (1323-26)
ਰਾਗੁ ਪ੍ਰਭਾਤੀ | Raag Prabhaatee
Gurbani (1327-1341)
Ashtpadiyan (1342-51)
ਰਾਗੁ ਜੈਜਾਵੰਤੀ | Raag Jaijaiwanti
Gurbani (1352-53)
Salok | Gatha | Phunahe | Chaubole | Swayiye
Sehskritee Mahala 1
Sehskritee Mahala 5
Gaathaa Mahala 5
Phunhay Mahala 5
Chaubolae Mahala 5
Shaloks Bhagat Kabir
Shaloks Sheikh Farid
Swaiyyae Mahala 5
Swaiyyae in Praise of Gurus
Shaloks in Addition To Vaars
Shalok Ninth Mehl
Mundavanee Mehl 5
ਰਾਗ ਮਾਲਾ, Raag Maalaa
What's new
New posts
New media
New media comments
New resources
Latest activity
Videos
New media
New comments
Library
Latest reviews
Donate
Log in
Register
What's new
New posts
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Welcome to all New Sikh Philosophy Network Forums!
Explore Sikh Sikhi Sikhism...
Sign up
Log in
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Does God Control Everything?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="P J Singh" data-source="post: 224518" data-attributes="member: 25524"><p>WJKK WJKF</p><p></p><p>You are so right: “OUR Energy is in spirit which bring thought biochemistry speech and physical action to all”. In your earlier response you mentioned God as the “Root Energy” so you are essentially saying that God is the creator (and therefore doer) of everything.</p><p></p><p>Fortunately, I think every Sikh has learnt this at the outset of AGGS in Mool Manter that God is the Creator and therefore the Doer ( Karta Purkh)</p><p></p><p>So I wonder, are you suggesting that this is all we need to learn about Gurmat and leave aside what Gurbani strives to teach us in the following 1429 pages?</p><p></p><p>There may be a “thought biochemistry” injected by the spirit as you suggest but why our thoughts turn out to be good or bad; why we think something is good or bad – is it all relative?</p><p></p><p>Do I have control on my physical actions that you are alluding to? And then who is this “I” (i.e. “Who am I”)? How do emotions develop, why some of us are elated, narcissist or display intellectual arrogance when others are intellectually humble. What is mind and consciousness? What is life and death; is there life after death? There are thousands of questions which are outside the purview of science, since you are using science terms. You talked about "positive, negative and neutral" - is there any supporting reference from Gurbani to attest the existence these forms of energies/entities?.</p><p></p><p>Many of us with scientific ideation use scientific jargon to explain spirituality/ Gurmat. This raises the following question:</p><p></p><p>Should science be used to validate or supplement our understanding of Gurbani?</p><p></p><p>Perhaps the answer to the question seems to depend on the degree of caution one chooses to exercise in this approach. Undoubtedly, it is going to add a science-induced prejudicial layer (Manmat) to our approach to understanding gurbani depending on the degree of caution one exercises.</p><p></p><p>If one uses scientific training/background to reflect and interpret gurubani then one may stay within the domain of "Bibak Vichar". On the other hand, if one chooses scientific arguments to seek validation of Gurmat, then we are treading a confounding path -- and it is very problematic.</p><p></p><p>Science and scientific thought are confined to the physical reality bounded by time and space; Gurmat extends far beyond this bounded reality. Science has neither the tools nor the capacity (as yet) to validate, comprehend or conceptualize what exists beyond the physical reality (of three Gunus) that Gurbani often alludes to. If our arguments to understand Gurbani are based on ensuring that there is a supplementary support from Science then we may be treading a wrong path.</p><p></p><p>When we say that we should rely on Science to supplement our interpretation of Gurbani the question arises which science are we alluding to -- the Science that existed 500 hundred years ago or the one that exists today or the one which may emerge in the future.</p><p></p><p>Science and scientific thoughts are constantly changing with new discoveries that often refute the earlier scientific thinking and findings. Gurmat is immutable (Atal) and its message universal. (Aad Saach, Jugad Saach, Habi Saach). How can a constantly changing instrument provide a reliable information about something that is fixed?</p><p></p><p>If we relied on scientific reasoning which existed even a few decades ago before the validation of proposed Higg's phenomenon by the Large Hadron Collider, some among us, with overly scientific ideation, would have been challenging certain aspects of the Jupu ji Sahib's message.</p><p></p><p>Gurmat radiates message of equality, peace, love, compassion, "live and let live", and so on. On the other hand, the destructive power of Science and its potential to annihilate humanity are well known. With such drastically different foresights and potential outcomes, how can one imagine that their internal and inherent pathways to final outcomes can meaningfully inform each other?</p><p></p><p>"Mind" is central to Gurbani. Many of us do not know what "Mind" is but those among us who are truly Gurmukh have experiential knowledge, understanding and its insight. Science does not have a clue; at least there is no consensus among scientists on this concept -- Mind, Brain and Consciousness is an outstanding problem for decades.</p><p></p><p>Gurmat is path of diligent and thoughtful inquiry - not a conglomeration of random thoughts.</p><p></p><p></p><p>WJKK WJKF</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="P J Singh, post: 224518, member: 25524"] WJKK WJKF You are so right: “OUR Energy is in spirit which bring thought biochemistry speech and physical action to all”. In your earlier response you mentioned God as the “Root Energy” so you are essentially saying that God is the creator (and therefore doer) of everything. Fortunately, I think every Sikh has learnt this at the outset of AGGS in Mool Manter that God is the Creator and therefore the Doer ( Karta Purkh) So I wonder, are you suggesting that this is all we need to learn about Gurmat and leave aside what Gurbani strives to teach us in the following 1429 pages? There may be a “thought biochemistry” injected by the spirit as you suggest but why our thoughts turn out to be good or bad; why we think something is good or bad – is it all relative? Do I have control on my physical actions that you are alluding to? And then who is this “I” (i.e. “Who am I”)? How do emotions develop, why some of us are elated, narcissist or display intellectual arrogance when others are intellectually humble. What is mind and consciousness? What is life and death; is there life after death? There are thousands of questions which are outside the purview of science, since you are using science terms. You talked about "positive, negative and neutral" - is there any supporting reference from Gurbani to attest the existence these forms of energies/entities?. Many of us with scientific ideation use scientific jargon to explain spirituality/ Gurmat. This raises the following question: Should science be used to validate or supplement our understanding of Gurbani? Perhaps the answer to the question seems to depend on the degree of caution one chooses to exercise in this approach. Undoubtedly, it is going to add a science-induced prejudicial layer (Manmat) to our approach to understanding gurbani depending on the degree of caution one exercises. If one uses scientific training/background to reflect and interpret gurubani then one may stay within the domain of "Bibak Vichar". On the other hand, if one chooses scientific arguments to seek validation of Gurmat, then we are treading a confounding path -- and it is very problematic. Science and scientific thought are confined to the physical reality bounded by time and space; Gurmat extends far beyond this bounded reality. Science has neither the tools nor the capacity (as yet) to validate, comprehend or conceptualize what exists beyond the physical reality (of three Gunus) that Gurbani often alludes to. If our arguments to understand Gurbani are based on ensuring that there is a supplementary support from Science then we may be treading a wrong path. When we say that we should rely on Science to supplement our interpretation of Gurbani the question arises which science are we alluding to -- the Science that existed 500 hundred years ago or the one that exists today or the one which may emerge in the future. Science and scientific thoughts are constantly changing with new discoveries that often refute the earlier scientific thinking and findings. Gurmat is immutable (Atal) and its message universal. (Aad Saach, Jugad Saach, Habi Saach). How can a constantly changing instrument provide a reliable information about something that is fixed? If we relied on scientific reasoning which existed even a few decades ago before the validation of proposed Higg's phenomenon by the Large Hadron Collider, some among us, with overly scientific ideation, would have been challenging certain aspects of the Jupu ji Sahib's message. Gurmat radiates message of equality, peace, love, compassion, "live and let live", and so on. On the other hand, the destructive power of Science and its potential to annihilate humanity are well known. With such drastically different foresights and potential outcomes, how can one imagine that their internal and inherent pathways to final outcomes can meaningfully inform each other? "Mind" is central to Gurbani. Many of us do not know what "Mind" is but those among us who are truly Gurmukh have experiential knowledge, understanding and its insight. Science does not have a clue; at least there is no consensus among scientists on this concept -- Mind, Brain and Consciousness is an outstanding problem for decades. Gurmat is path of diligent and thoughtful inquiry - not a conglomeration of random thoughts. WJKK WJKF [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Discussions
Interfaith Dialogues
Does God Control Everything?
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
Accept
Learn more…
Top