My Views On Dasam Granth

COMPOSITION OF THE DASAM GRANTH

It is unclear where all the compositions of the Dasam Granth come from. Some may have been commissioned by Guruji from his court poets, while other parts may have been penned by Guruji himself..

Note Dasam Granth is not one work like Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, but a compilation of of writings recovered after the sacking of Anandpur Sahib. Many were lost.

Guruji specifically never included Dasam Granth literature in the Guru Granth Sahib ji, so one can conclude it was for another purpose.

Most of Dasam Granth is written in Braj, Punjabi and Persian.

BELIEF IN HINDU GODS

A common misconception is that Dasam Granth praises Hindu Gods. This is not true. So why are they mentioned? For the following reasons:

1) Illustrative purposes : People must remember the Khalsa had just been formed or was in the process of being formed when this was penned. The Sikhs of that time still understood things in terms of Hinduism and Hindu lore. So to describe concepts of God and complex Sikh concepts Guruji had to use concepts that were familiar to the populace hence (hence tales of Hindu mythology).

An example of this is travelling to an island where there is no electricity......how would you describe it in concepts they understand....fire, water ?

2) The is Only one God: Guruji from the start spends pages upon pages (Japu) describing the form of God "Kaal and Akaal" ..."Salutation to the one Indestructible, Salutation to the indivisible" etc etc.

3) The Hindu Gods Are Not Gods: I Akal Ustati Guruji states "He creates as well as destroys both Brahma and Shiva".......now is not a God immortal and Omnipitent? If Brahma and Shiva can be destroyed then they are not Gods. It futher says "Shiva and Vishnu fail to comprehend him"....surely a God knows everything....if Shiva and Vishnu do not know the nature of God, they cannot be Gods.

It further states under Tomar Chand "He created hundreds of Kings like Indra, many Brahmas and Vishnus, many Ramas, Krishnas and other prophets, but none is acceptable to Him without devotion". Guruji views these "Gods" as prophets and not Gods.

Under Kabitt it states

"Many Shivas came to the world and went; Many are incarnation like Krishna and Rama; innumerable are Brahmas and Vishnus, Vedas and Puranas; Many have been authors of Smirtis; They all came and went off; There have been numerous Madrarachal, innumerable Aswini Kumars and equally many progeny of incarnations, but they all have been prey to death."

How can a God die? Unless it is ofcourse not a God and a human. and mortal.

From http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&...=t&id=64483

ਬ੍ਰਹਮ ਮਹੇਸਰ ਬਿਸਨ ਸਚੀਪਿਤ ਅੰਤ ਫਸੇ ਜਮ ਫਾਸਿ ਪਰੈਂਗੇ ॥
ब्रहम महेसर बिसन सचीपित अंत फसे जम फासि परैंगे ॥
Brahma, Shiva, Vishnu and Consort of Sachi (Indra) would ultimately fall in the noose of death.

There are many other examples but one gets the picture that Guruji thought these so called Hindu "Gods" were just mortal, and therefore not Gods.

4) Specific Audience - The Dasam Granth (and Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji) has a specific audience in mind. For most parts it is Hindu`s in Dasam Granth. In Chandi Di Var, Guruji is trying to inspire the low caste Hindu`s, from which Sikh`s are made up of (Jats, Tarkhans, Kalal`s, Julaha`s, Chamar`s etc), to fight by telling them a story of Indian Lore that they will understand.

Epistle of Victory (or Zafarnama), is addressed to Aurengzeb and tell him of his treachery. What is remarkable about it is the Persian it is written in....apparently poetically and grammatically it is perfect.....something Persian`s for the most part cannot get right because it is such a subtle language....for example one could easily describe a cup a instead of an ocean with one misssed stroke.

WHY IS THE DASAM GRANTH IMPORTANT?

It is important because it describes some key events that occurred, for example the Battle of Bhanghani and Chamkaur. It also names specific Sikhs and who was involved where.


It give`s us an insight into the infant Sikh Nation.


It shows us what an accomplished intellectual Guruji was. In it he writes about the French, the Africans etc:
http://www.sridasam.org/dasam?Action=Page&...=t&id=66496

ਫਰਾ ਕੇ ਫਿਰੰਗੀ ਮਾਨੈਂ ਕੰਧਾਰੀ ਕੁਰੈਸੀ ਜਾਨੈਂ ਪਛਮ ਕੇ ਪੱਛਮੀ ਪਛਾਨੈਂ ਨਿਜ ਕਾਮ ਹੈਂ ॥
फरा के फिरंगी मानैं कंधारी कुरैसी जानैं पछम के प्छमी पछानैं निज काम हैं ॥
The people of France and England revere Thee, the inhabitants of Kandhaar and Quraishis know Thee; the people of western side recognize their duty towards Thee.

Tells us about the behaviour of Sikhs and Guruji:
ਭਾਂਤਿ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਨਿ ਖੇਲ ਸਿਕਾਰਾ ॥ ਮਾਰੇ ਰੀਛ ਰੋਝ ਝੰਖਾਰਾ ॥੧॥
भांति भांति बनि खेल सिकारा ॥ मारे रीछ रोझ झंखारा ॥१॥
I went hunting various kinds of animals in the forest and killed bears, nilgais (blue bulls) and elks.1.

ਦੇਸ ਚਾਲ ਹਮ ਤੇ ਪੁਨਿ ਭਈ ॥ ਸਹਰ ਪਾਂਵਟਾ ਕੀ ਸੁਧਿ ਲਈ ॥
देस चाल हम ते पुनि भई ॥ सहर पांवटा की सुधि लई ॥
Then I left my home and went to place named Paonta.

ਕਾਲਿੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਤਟਿ ਕਰੇ ਬਿਲਾਸਾ ॥ ਅਨਿਕ ਭਾਂਤ ਕੇ ਪੇਖਿ ਤਮਾਸਾ ॥੨॥
कालिंद्री तटि करे बिलासा ॥ अनिक भांत के पेखि तमासा ॥२॥
I enjoyed my stay on the banks of Kalindri (Yamuna) and saw amusement of various kind.

ਤਹ ਕੇ ਸਿੰਘ ਘਨੇ ਚੁਨਿ ਮਾਰੇ ॥ ਰੋਝ ਰੀਛ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਂਤਿ ਬਿਦਾਰੇ ॥
तह के सिंघ घने चुनि मारे ॥ रोझ रीछ बहु भांति बिदारे ॥
There I killed may lions, nilgais and bears.

READ WITH AN OPEN MIND AND UNDERSTANDING

Sikh writings must be understood in their specific, historical, sociological, and economical context. One then gets an image of what is going on:

For example:

1) Kabir writes at the time of the Invasion of Timur and the sacking of Delhi and Benares (which he witnessed), and the slaughter of many innocent Hindu`s.

2) Guru Nanak writes at the time of the invasion of Babur. He witnessed many atrocities.

3) Guruji writes at a time of much strife caused by Aurengzeb

randip

A very helpful essay IMHO. :welcome:

I thought maybe people could post their views in a similar format?

In 2008 Sikh Spectrum invited scholars to submit articles related to the authorship of Dasam Granth. They are on the Internet in pdf format. Nearly all of these articles assume very critical stances, and many openly assert that the Dasam Granth has been very vulnerable to interpolation and tampering throughout its lifetime. I found the articles to be well documented and reasoned. Each one presents several hypotheses to consider in a serious way. Randip ji, Do you have any interest in my copying them onto this thread?

Here is why I am asking. Your opening sentence, "It is unclear where all the compositions of the Dasam Granth come from. Some may have been commissioned by Guruji from his court poets, while other parts may have been penned by Guruji himself" opens the door for taking a look at the arguments put forward by these scholars.

aad0002 said:

In 2008 Sikh Spectrum invited scholars to submit articles related to the authorship of Dasam Granth. They are on the Internet in pdf format. Nearly all of these articles assume very critical stances, and many openly assert that the Dasam Granth has been very vulnerable to interpolation and tampering throughout its lifetime. I found the articles to be well documented and reasoned. Each one presents several hypotheses to consider in a serious way. Randip ji, Do you have any interest in my copying them onto this thread?

Here is why I am asking. Your opening sentence, "It is unclear where all the compositions of the Dasam Granth come from. Some may have been commissioned by Guruji from his court poets, while other parts may have been penned by Guruji himself" opens the door for taking a look at the arguments put forward by these scholars.

Click to expand...

Yes it would be good to include those.

The reason why I made that statement is, because many manuscripts were lost when Anandpur Sahib was sacked. The Dasam Granth seems to be manuscripts that survived and were collated together in what is called the Dasam Granth.

Randhir Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for your thoughts on Dasam Granth.

You write:

It is unclear where all the compositions of the Dasam Granth come from. Some may have been commissioned by Guruji from his court poets, while other parts may have been penned by Guruji himself..

Note Dasam Granth is not one work like Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji, but a compilation of of writings recovered after the sacking of Anandpur Sahib. Many were lost.

Guruji specifically never included Dasam Granth literature in the Guru Granth Sahib ji, so one can conclude it was for another purpose.

Most of Dasam Granth is written in Braj, Punjabi and Persian

Click to expand...

.

I agree with you in parts on the above. Many books were also lost in the rushing waters of the river. As none of them was individually bound and had the authors' names on them, some clever people who may have been jealous and hence against Sikhi may have also compiled all the scattered works of the poets which may or may not have included Guru Gobind SIngh's writings into a book called Dasam Granth.

Again, this is one more speculation, this time by me as many by others. Although some of the works in DG do compliment Gurmat values but no one can say for sure if they were written by Guru Gobind Singh if we compare to his deliberate actions of adding the Gurbani of his father Guru Teg Bahadur in SGGS and narrating the whole SGGS to Bhai Mani Singh. Had he wanted to add his own thoughts in the SGGS, he would have done so but the fact remains that he did not and this decision of his should be respected by all who call themselves Sikhs, scholars, historians or laymen. In other words his decision should be respected by the whole Khalsa Panth.

Second guessing of Guru Gobind Singh's decision of not adding anything of his own in SGGS and not revealing to us personally what he wrote shows nothing but arrogance and sheer ignorance of many so called Sikh scholars and historians .

When these things about DG being the work of Guru Gobind Singh keep on cropping up by some whose agenda is nothing but deviate us from our only GURU- SGGS and add Hindutva into Sikhi.

Tejwant Singh

Randip ji

Here are the articles, which I post on the heels of the comments of VaheguruSeekr ji, whose insights I find liberating in this discussion to say the least. Probably I will post more in the coming days. But for now, consider this comment with these links a hard-hat zone. And I hope that readers will keep in mind that the authors come from a very diverse group of opinions.

VaheguruSeekr said:

Randhir Singh ji,

Guru Fateh.

Thanks for your thoughts on Dasam Granth.

You write:

.

I agree with you in parts on the above. Many books were also lost in the rushing waters of the river. As none of them was individually bound and had the authors' names on them, some clever people who may have been jealous and hence against Sikhi may have also compiled all the scattered works of the poets which may or may not have included Guru Gobind SIngh's writings into a book called Dasam Granth.

Again, this is one more speculation, this time by me as many by others. Although some of the works in DG do compliment Gurmat values but no one can say for sure if they were written by Guru Gobind Singh if we compare to his deliberate actions of adding the Gurbani of his father Guru Teg Bahadur in SGGS and narrating the whole SGGS to Bhai Mani Singh. Had he wanted to add his own thoughts in the SGGS, he would have done so but the fact remains that he did not and this decision of his should be respected by all who call themselves Sikhs, scholars, historians or laymen. In other words his decision should be respected by the whole Khalsa Panth.

Second guessing of Guru Gobind Singh's decision of not adding anything of his own in SGGS and not revealing to us personally what he wrote shows nothing but arrogance and sheer ignorance of many so called Sikh scholars and historians .

When these things about DG being the work of Guru Gobind Singh keep on cropping up by some whose agenda is nothing but deviate us from our only GURU- SGGS and add Hindutva into Sikhi.

Tejwant Singh

Click to expand...

Hi Tejwant Singh ji,

A couple of things



1) My view is that I see Dasam Granth as an Appendix. It gives us an idea of the mind set of people at that time. It shows what the Guru's were up against. They had to use concepts people were familiar with in order to explain the nature of God. For me it does not matter if it was or was not penned by the Tenth Master, it is a remarkable piece of work.

2) I noticed in a debate you had views on Kaal and Akaal. What is you take on that?

3) I think the stories should be taken in their Metaphorical context. For example Chitro Pakyan actually covers Kaa, Krodhh, Moh, Lobh and Hankaar with illustrative stories. To bad Pritpal Singh Bindra's translation could have not been as good as Dr Jodh Singh and Dr Dharam Singh.