General When Something Goes Against What You Believe

Mod note: I've taken this and the following post from the Is Atheism the Ultimate Sikhi thread here: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/atheism/35294-is-atheism-the-ultimate-sikhi.html to facilitate more discussion on the topic. Many thanks to Angrisha Ji for the opening post Forgive me if I've misrepresented the thread title.

Harry Haller said:

are there any requirements in Sikhism?

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Angrisha said:

Maybe this should be a new thread. But its something that ive been contemplating for a few weeks now.

As Ive gotten older, I find myself saying no to or avoiding situations which seem to be against what I believe. Even when it involves ppl close to me (sometime my mother), so I struggle sometimes with the guilt of following what I choose to vs. what they want.

For example, I recently had gotten into a my first accident (very bad actually), but at the end of the day for the extent of damage to my car im very much okay. In the process of buying a new car, I personally heard a number of things such as: Dont buy a car on Tuesday or a Thursday. Or my own moms personal insistence of doing something special for the car to remove "nazar" (which in my mind is silly, and we've had a number of vehicles with no such thing done). We've always been grateful for what we receive and personally ive never taken anything for granted.

But how do you go about saying no in a way that doesnt offend people? Or should you even care? I find that I encounter these issues more and more... or maybe im just more reluctant to go along with it :s

For my mom, I basically told her that I didnt think it was necessary but if she wanted to do something for her own peace of mind she could with my car.... my dad basically told her the same thing. She got over it, but she didnt take it well.

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This is Harry Ji's reply from the aforementioned Atheism thread. And we're good to go!

Harry Haller said:

Angrisha said:

But how do you go about saying no in a way that doesnt offend people? Or should you even care? I find that I encounter these issues more and more... or maybe im just more reluctant to go along with it :s

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easy, just tell them youve become an atheist lol

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Angrisha Ji, I'm sorry to hear about your car accident, but I'm also glad you survived unscathed (from what I can gather from your post).

My pet peeve is superstitions as I have a personality type that is easily swayed by them - I must be always on my guard.

When people start talking about superstitions around me I'm usually frank with my objection and opinion that they are foolish and dangerous, partly because they are, and partly to defend my own psyche. Sometimes it offends the person I'm talking to. If I need to be more diplomatic about it, I will just mumble 'oh okay', shrug, change the subject and ignore what they said.

A couple of times when I've challenged my mum on it, she says something like, 'oh don't be silly, it's just a bit of fun.' Sometimes people are just passing on heresay, they might not believe it themselves but they're just passing on what they heard. Sometimes it's obvious where the superstition came from, and you can dispel it with the truth, like 'don't walk under ladders, it's bad luck' = 'yeah, bad luck for the guy up the ladder ahahaha'.

Regarding removal of 'nazar', that's interesting. I just bought a car too, because mine died, and I proceeded to clean it frantically to get all the previous owner's scunge out of it. I think this is normal behaviour, to feel the urge to clean or bond with a new item acquired. Superstitious people turn it into a superstition and replace a proper function of cleaning and bonding with an item into something superficial and nonsensical - but I think that's due to a lack of understanding the urge to clean and bond. But maybe that's just me.

I have to confess to being incredibly superstitious, mostly about superstitions, I do the following almost as a matter of ritual namely:

I am constantly walking under ladders, I have been splattered with paint, water, and I still cannot stop
If I am going to buy anything it has to be bought on a Friday, preferably the 13th
Every mirror in my house is broken, at least once
If I am going out anywhere, I have to sneeze before I go out.
I have a stuffed rabbit minus the foot
I can only sleep on tables

so I know how you feel

Aaahhh!! *covers eyes* I admit it is very, very difficult for me to go against a superstition that is already in my mind. As much as I know it's crazy, I sometimes struggle to confront the fear it causes in me, and I obey, hoping Creator doesn't see me do it.

I can only feel great sympathy for people who actually believe in that rubbish and don't realise how poisonous it actually is.

Here in the land of supertition, I get a lot of this and I find it best to be direct. No! I don't need to be blessed before a trip No I don't need to pay the priest to bless my car business,etc. No I don't want a statue of Saint whoever. I'm not Catholic. This would usually would come from my mother in law. I'd Tell her this and she would make her sad, wounded puppy face but luckily she has finally given up. I do this when it pertains directly to me. Other times, I just resort to rolling my eyes. The other day my sister in law did a "limpia" ,ie. cleaning , of her dog and I don't mean with soap and wáter.

Just for some hilarity and inquisitions some items I found on other websites. Not my writeups.

harry haller said:

I am constantly walking under ladders, I have been splattered with paint, water, and I still cannot stop

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The following links you to possible criminality or sins sans Sikhism,

"It's bad luck to walk under a leaning ladder."

Credit: sxc.hu

This superstition really does originate 5,000 years ago in ancient Egypt. A ladder leaning against a wall forms a triangle, and Egyptians regarded this shape as sacred (as exhibited, for example, by their pyramids). To them, triangles represented the trinity of the gods, and to pass through a triangle was to desecrate them.


This belief wended its way up through the ages. "Centuries later, followers of Jesus Christ usurped the superstition, interpreting it in light of Christ's death," Panati explained. "Because a ladder had rested against the crucifix, it became a symbol of wickedness, betrayal, and death. Walking under a ladder courted misfortune."


In England in the 1600s, criminals were forced to walk under a ladder on their way to the gallows.

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Now the following is my conjecture regarding Friday the 13th where Harry brother says,

If I am going to buy anything it has to be bought on a Friday, preferably the 13th

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I believe this was started by manipulative husbands in UK so that Missus will cut down on shopping, make some good Fish and Chips (beer batter), and get ready for the giddy up at night:blinkingmunda:

harry haller said:

If I am going out anywhere, I have to sneeze before I go out.

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Sneezing is really bad for trespassers, burglars, husbands trying to leave the missus alone to go to the pub, etc. Of course you also break your pet's heart as when you sneeze the critter may show up at the door with those puppy eyes asking you not to leave.

I believe whoever started the ladder superstition was brilliant. One wonders how much extra time would have been needed to build the pyramids without it. Even in present day times I wonder how much money the insurance companies have saved due to lack of accidents related to ladders and people quickly dismounting under gravity or others getting squished from objects falling on their CPU.

Cheers.

PS: I will share some Indian/Punjabi superstitions later.

Harry ji and Ishna ji, have you never heard of my favourite superstition: " It's bad luck to be superstitious"? Wrap your mind around that one for a while trying to find your way out.

Of course, the SRM roundly condemns superstitions of all types.

Superstitions to be real superstitions need to be utterly without a real world base. I do not consider avoiding walking under ladders a superstition, as that really can be dangerous in several ways.

Superstitions can be actually harmful. Think of all the poor, little kitties thrown on the fires of burning "witches" in medievil times.

Stevie Wonder said it best, I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXsxvdF481I

BTW, I shall continue to post songs with my comments because I think music is a wonderful learning tool.

I think our Gurus would agree. After all, Siri Guru Granth Sahib can be viewed as the most sublime songbook that will ever be. It is all meant to be sung, with instructions for the singing actually accepted as part of the sacred text. If my saying that offends anyone, I apologise in advance. (But it's still the truth.)

Pyramids were built with ramps. Ooops! :noticekudi:

I bet it used to be bad luck to walk under Egyptian ramps then ahaha ...

I get that its common sense not to walk under ladders; the part I take objection to is the "bad luck". I guess some people are dumb enough to walk under ladders tho and only the threat of bad luck will stop them... like the promise of heavenly reward is the only thing that will make them choose the moral path in a situation.

LOL! Im glad im not the only one, I guess my patience for such things has grown very thing

Thank you IshnaJi for branching this out.