Lessons From God - What Happens When We Die? - Where Could We Go? - What Is Attachment & Detachment?

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji "GOD" does not give lessons and lead you by the nose. Creation is all that is done. You make what you want of it.

What you expect to get out of a mix and match belief system? Your own custom combo religion and how you possibly are going to convey what you believe in? It is hard enough to do so within the confines of a single religion regardless of good or bad.

Just quoting books and throwing book titles around is like walking in to a bookstore religious or like section and dishing out titles. If you have read the books perhaps summarize in your own word what you take away. That will attract more interaction and create more learning for all.

I see you have also thrown in Radhaswamis into the mix too. Don't eat meat or eggs and you will go to heaven or find God. What nonsense from people whose history is based on cheating the villagers around Beas, cheating on Sikhism by using the name to start and then walking away when lands were duly transferred in title, etc. When something grows from garbage it will have a hard time shaking the smell of garbage. What turbaned traitors who don't allow prakash of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji at Dehrah Beas now that they have established and secured lands built through trickery. It is hard to believe that people still buy or cling to such for guidance. Such people must be pretty desparate to get some limelight as dehras are great at patting you on the back, stroking your ego, giving you nice place to stay.

I realize they don't take money from people and all the buildings and Niwas for leadership came about as a volcanic eruption and suddenly shaped itself to look like forts and buildings.

Sat Sri Akal.

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

ਇਕ ਦਝਹਿ ਇੱਕ ਦਬੀਅਹਿ ਇਕਨਾ ਕੁਤੇ ਖਾਹਿ॥
ਇਕਿ ਪਾਣੀ ਵਿਚਿ ਉਸਟੀਅਹਿ ਇਕਿ ਭੀ ਫਿਰਿ ਹਸਣਿ ਪਾਹਿ॥
ਨਾਨਕ ਏਵ ਨ ਜਾਪਈ ਕਿਥੈ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਹਿ॥
ਸਲੋਕ ਮ: 1 ਪੰਨਾ 648--
Guru nanak ji on Page 648......"Some get eaten by dogs and wild animals (P{censored}es leave their dead to be eaten by vultures)..some are buried deep in the earth ( eaten by worms bacteria etc) some are thrown in flowing waters....OH Nanak..NO ONE KNOWS where they ALL end up Finally ...


ਹਮ ਆਦਮੀ ਹਾਂ ਇੱਕ ਦਮੀ ਮੁਹਲਤਿ ਮੁਹਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣਾ॥
ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬਿਨਵੈ ਤਿਸੈ ਸਰੇਵਹੁ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਜੀਅ ਪਰਾਣਾ॥
ਧਨਾਸਰੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ ੬੬੦— Guru nanak ji on Page 660...We humans are dependant on just ONE BREATH...if the one that went IN..doesnt come OUT..we are DEAD....IF the One that just exited..doesnt have its replacement come IN..we are DEAD...and no one knows the exact time/period this process will stop.


ਮਾਤ ਗਰਭ ਮਹਿ ਆਪਨ ਸਿਮਰਨੁ ਦੇ ਤਹ ਤੁਮ ਰਾਖਨਹਾਰੇ॥
ਪਾਵਕ ਸਾਗਰ ਅਥਾਹ ਲਹਰਿ ਮਹਿ ਤਾਰਹੁ ਤਾਰਨਹਾਰੇ॥
ਸੋਰਠਿ ਮਹਲਾ 5 ਪੰਨਾ 613— Guru Arjun ji on Page 613..in the mothers womb..the EMBRYO BREATHES via his MOTHER...the moment it is Born..it starts breathing using the lungs...


ਜੈਸੇ ਜਲ ਤੇ ਬੁਦਬੁਦਾ ਉਪਜੈ ਬਿਨਸੈ ਨੀਤ॥
ਜਗ ਰਚਨਾ ਤੈਸੇ ਰਚੀ ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਸੁਨਿ ਮੀਤ॥
ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੨੭— Guru teg bahadur Ji page 1427...As the BUBBLES fill up with AIR..rise above the ocean...and BURST ..releasing the AIR and returning to the WATERS..so is this WORLD....all LIFE rises as a bubble..full of air..bursts..and returns to the ocean...again and again...NO Bubble ever needs to be sent to HEAVEN/HELL...neither any bubble cmae form another world..neither does it go anywhere else...


ਘਟ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਹਰਿ ਜੂ ਬਸੈ ਸੰਤਨ ਕਹਿਓ ਪੁਕਾਰਿ॥
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਹ ਭਜੁ ਮਨਾ ਭਉ ਨਿਧਿ ਉਤਰਹਿ ਪਾਰਿ॥
ਸਲੋਕ ਮਹਲਾ ੯ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੪੨੭— Guru teg bahadur Ji Page 1427..Just as the Bubbles contain the AIR and the waters..so does each life contain the "Creator's Gunns and attributes"....and those who follow and adopt these attributes go across the ocean..

ਤੇ ਇਸ ਨੂੰ ਹੋਰ ਸਮਝਣ ਲਈ ਕਿ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਜੋਤ ਸਾਰਿਆਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਹੈ ---
ਜਲਿ ਥਲਿ ਮਹੀਅਲਿ ਪੂਰਿਆ, ਰਵਿਆ ਵਿੱਚ ਵਣਾ॥
ਸੋ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਚਿਤਿ ਨ ਆਵਈ, ਕਿਤੜਾ ਦੁਖੁ ਗਣਾ॥
ਮਾਝ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ –ਪੰਨਾ ੧੩੩--
Guru Amardass Ji explains in such a simple way..OH Human..YOU came into EXISTENCE due to the Mixing of AIR and WATER..and YOUR EXISTENCE is WITHIN THIS EXISTENCE..ON THIS WORLD...not anywhere outside...other worlds ..other heavens ..other hells...

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਨੇ ਸੌਖੇ ਤਰੀਕੇ ਨਾਲ ਸਮਝਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਭਈ ਹਵਾ ਪਾਣੀ ਦੇ ਸੁਮੇਲ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਹੋਂਦ ਵਿੱਚ ਆਇਆ ਹੈ ਤੇ ਏਸੇ ਹੋਂਦ ਵਿਚੋਂ ਹੀ ਤੇਰੀ ਹੋਂਦ ਸਾਕਾਰ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ----
ਸਾਚੇ ਤੇ ਪਵਨਾ ਭਇਆ ਪਵਨੈ ਤੇ ਜਲੁ ਹੋਇ॥
ਜਲ ਤੇ ਤ੍ਰਿਭਵਣੁ ਸਾਜਿਆ ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮੋਇ॥
ਸਿਰੀ ਰਾਗ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੯-- Guru nanak Page 19

ਬੰਦਿਆ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਆਪਣੇ ਅਸਲੇ ਦੀ ਪਹਿਛਾਣ ਹੋਣੀ ਚਾਹੀਦੀ ਸੀ ਪਰ ਤੂੰ ਕਰਮ-ਕਾਂਡ ਦੇ ਚੱਕਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਉਲ਼ਝ ਕੇ ਰਹਿ ਗਿਆ --- YOU have FAILED to REALISE your MOOL..your BEGINNING..your EXISTENCE....and become entangled in karam kaands rituals False beliefs of heavens and hells souls going and coming...

ਸਾਕਤ ਨਿਰਗੁਣਿਆਰਿਆ ਆਪਣਾ ਮੂਲੁ ਪਛਾਣੁ॥
ਰਕਤੁ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਕਾ ਇਹੁ ਤਨੋ ਅਗਨੀ ਪਾਸਿ ਪਿਰਾਣੁ॥
ਪਵਣੈ ਕੈ ਵਸਿ ਦੇਹੁਰੀ ਮਸਤਕਿ ਸਚੁ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ॥
ਸਿਰੀ ਰਾਗ ਮਹਲਾ 1 ਪੰਨਾ 63--

ਰਕਤੁ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਕਰਿ ਨਿੰਮਿਆ ਅਗਨਿ ਉਦਰ ਮਝਾਰਿ॥
ਉਰਧ ਮੁਖੁ ਕੁਚੀਲ ਬਿਕਲੁ ਨਰਕਿ ਘੋਰਿ ਗੁਬਾਰਿ॥
ਪਉੜੀ ਜੈਤਸਰੀ ਕੀ ਵਾਰ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਪੰਨਾ ੭੦੬—
ਮਾਂ ਦੀ ਰਕਤ, ਪਿਤਾ ਦਾ ਵੀਰਜ ਤੇ ਪੇਟ ਦੀ ਅਗਨੀ ਵਿੱਚ ਐ ਮਨੁੱਖ ਤੂੰ ਉੱਗਿਆ ਸੈਂ, ਤੇਰਾ ਮੂੰਹ ਹੇਠਾਂ ਸੀ, ਗੰਦਾ ਤੇ ਡਰਾਉਣਾ ਸੈਂ, ਇੰਜ ਲੱਗਦਾ ਸੀ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਤੂੰ ਹਨੇਰੇ ਨਰਕ ਵਿੱਚ ਪਿਆ ਹੋਵੇਂ। ਨਵੇਂ ਸਰੀਰ ਦੀ ਹੋਂਦ ਤਿੰਨਾਂ ਦੇ ਸੁਮੇਲ ਤੋਂ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ। Mothers EGG...Fathers Sperm...encased in the fires of the womb..you came into EXISTENCE...hnaging upside down.looking quite ugly suspended as if in dark hell....YOUR new Body came into existence due to the presence of three things..

ਜਦੋਂ ਮਾਂ ਵੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੀ ਤੇ ਪਿਤਾ ਵੀ ਨਹੀਂ ਸੀ ਤਾਂ ਓਦੋਂ ਇਹ ਜੀਵ ਆਤਮਾ ਕਿੱਥੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੀ ਸੀ? -- ਰਕਤੁ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਕੀ ਮੜੀ ਨ ਹੋਤੀ, ਮਿਤਿ ਕੀਮਤਿ ਨਹੀ ਪਾਈ॥ When there was NO MOTHER...and NO FATHER...WHERE WERE YOU ??

ਗੁਰਦੇਵ ਪਿਤਾ ਜੀ ਸਮਝਉਂਦੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਓਦੋਂ ਆਤਮਾ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੀ ਸਦਾ ਬਹਾਰ ਨਿਯਮਾਵਲੀ ਭਾਵ ਹਵਾ ਦੇ ਰੂਪ ਵਿੱਚ ਰਹਿ ਰਹੀ ਸੀ – ਨਾਭਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਅਸਥੰਭੁ ਨ ਹੋਤੋ, ਤਾ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਬਸਤਉ ਪਵਨੁ ਅਨਰਾਗੀ॥ ਜਿਵੇਂ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦਾ ਵਿਕਾਸ ਹੋਇਆ ਤਿਵੇਂ ਤਿਵੇਂ ਸਰੀਰਾਂ ਦੀ ਹੋਂਦ ਸੰਸਾਰ ਵਿੱਚ ਆਉਂਦੀ ਗਈ। ਇਹ ਸਾਰੀ ਖੇਢ "ਤਾ ਨਿਜ ਘਰਿ ਬਸਤਉ ਪਵਨ ਅਨਰਾਗੀ" ਭਾਵ ਪਵਨ ਅਨੁਰਾਗੀ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਨਾਲ ਹਵਾ ਵਿੱਚ ਵੱਸਦਾ ਸੀ। YOU WERE IN THE AIR...according to the Unbending Laws of Nature...

ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਬਾਰ ਬਾਰ ਕਹਿ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ਐ ਬੰਦੇ ਤੇਰੀ ਹੋਂਦ ਮਾਂ ਅਤੇ ਪਿਤਾ ਦੁਆਰਾ ਹੀ ਉਤਪੰਨ ਹੋਈ ਹੈ ---
ਮਾਤ ਪਿਤਾ ਸੰਜੋਗਿ ਉਪਾਏ ਰਕਤੁ ਬਿੰਦੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਕਰੇ॥ Why is Guru Ji stressing again and again...YOU are the RESULT of the MOTHERS EGG and Fathers SPERM ??? Because the HUMAN BODY is the most vital part of this equation....

ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੦੧੩—
ਇਸ ਵਿਚਾਰ ਨੂੰ ਹੋਰ ਖੋਹਲਦਿਆਂ ਹੋਇਆਂ ਗੁਰੂ ਸਾਹਿਬ ਜੀ ਫਰਮਾ ਰਹੇ ਹਨ ਕਿ ----
ਮਾ ਕੀ ਰਕਤੁ ਪਿਤਾ ਬਿਦੁ ਧਾਰਾ॥
ਮੂਰਤਿ ਸੂਰਤਿ ਕਰਿ ਆਪਾਰਾ॥
ਜੋਤਿ ਦਾਤਿ ਜੇਤੀ ਸਭ ਤੇਰੀ ਤੂ ਕਰਤਾ ਸਭ ਠਾਈ ਹੇ॥ 4

ਰਾਗ ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੦੨੨- Page 1022

ਅਤੇ --
ਬਿੰਦੁ ਰਕਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਪਿੰਡੁ ਸਰੀਆ॥ ਪਉਣੁ ਪਾਣੀ ਅਗਨੀ ਮਿਲਿ ਜੀਆ॥
ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੦੨੬— maru page 1026

--- ਉਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਦੇ ਹੁਕਮ ਵਿੱਚ ਹੀ) ਪਿਤਾ ਦੇ ਵੀਰਜ ਦੀ ਬੂੰਦ ਤੇ ਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਪੇਟ ਦੇ ਲਹੂ ਨੇ ਮਿਲ ਕੇ (ਮਨੁੱਖਾ) ਸਰੀਰ ਬਣਾ ਦਿੱਤਾ । ਹਵਾ ਪਾਣੀ ਅੱਗ (ਆਦਿਕ ਤੱਤਾਂ ਨੇ ਮਿਲ ਕੇ ਜੀਵ ਰਚ ਦਿੱਤੇ ।
ਮਾਂ ਦੀ ਰਕਤ ਤੇ ਪਿਤਾ ਦੇ ਬਿੰਦ ਵਿੱਚ ਜ਼ਿਉਂਦੀ ਹਰਕਤ ਹੀ ਨਵਾਂ ਸਰੀਰ ਪੈਦਾ ਕਰ ਸਕਦੀ ਹੈ। ਜੇਹਾ ਕਿ ਫਰਮਾਣ ਹੈ ----
ਗਰਭ ਅਗਨਿ ਮਹਿ ਜਿਨਹਿ ਉਬਾਰਿਆ॥
ਰਕਤ ਕਿਰਮ ਮਹਿ ਨਹੀ ਸੰਘਾਰਿਆ॥
ਮਾਰੂ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਪੰਨਾ ੧੦੨੬—
ਭਾਈ ! ਜਿਸ ਪਰਮਾਤਮਾ ਨੇ (ਜੀਵ ਨੂੰ) ਮਾਂ ਦੇ ਪੇਟ ਦੀ ਅੱਗ ਵਿੱਚ ਬਚਾਈ ਰੱਖਿਆ, ਜਿਸ ਨੇ ਮਾਂ ਦੀ ਰੱਤ ਦੇ ਕਿਰਮਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ (ਜੀਵ ਨੂੰ) ਮਰਨ ਨਾਹ ਦਿੱਤਾ ਉਸ ਨੇ (ਤਦੋਂ) ਆਪਣੇ (ਨਾਮ ਦਾ) ਸਿਮਰਨ ਦੇ ਕੇ ਰੱਖਿਆ ਕੀਤੀ ।
ਸੋ ਇਹ ਸਮਝਿਆ ਜਾ ਸਕਦਾ ਹੈ ਕਿ ਆਤਮਾ ਕੋਈ ਬਾਹਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਭੱਜੀ ਫਿਰਦੀ ਨਾ ਹੀ ਕਿਸੇ ਅਸਮਾਨ ਤੋਂ ਹੇਠਾਂ ਇਸ ਨੇ ਆਉਣਾ ਹੈ। ਸੰਸਾਰ ਦੀ ਬਣੀ ਹੋਈ ਕੁਰਦਤੀ ਨਿਯਮਾਵਲੀ ਅਨੁਸਾਰ ਜੀਵਾਂ ਦੀ ਉਤਪਤੀ ਹੋ ਰਹੀ ਹੈ। ਹਾਂ ਮਾਨਸਿਕ ਕੰਮਜ਼ੋਰੀਆਂ ਕਰਕੇ ਤੇ ਮਾਨਸਿਕ ਤਲ਼ `ਤੇ ਹੀ ਅਸੀਂ ਕਈ ਜੂਨਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਹਰ ਰੋਜ਼ ਦਿਨੇ ਰਾਤ ਭਟਕਦੇ ਰਹਿੰਦੇ ਹਾਂ। AS and when the Air gases and waters etc came into existence..as the earth evolved and matured..so did LIFE come into EXISTENCE....and MAN is the LIFE when we are given the ability and competence to FOLLOW and ADOPT the Good qualities and attributes of the Creator for the Common Good......we DIE and are RE-BORN many many times on a Daily basis living and dying in our hankaar ego pride etc...

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Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

I do not think Amarjitji is attempting to change what death means to a Sikh, it is just another viewpoint from his perspective, which he has made quite clear is not Sikh, I feel that although we may not agree with it, there is no point arguing with it, it is just another information stream to be aware of, so we should thank him for his views and focus on what is in common with what we believe in.

Taken as a story of life experience it made interesting reading, now we need to move forward in the same way we do with anyone whose views we do not agree with, be they Muslim, Hindu or a combination of all.

Again, I do not think the man is looking for an argument, and I think he knows very well that his view is contrary to what many believe in, but its his view, and surely we can respect it without agreeing with it

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

Amarjit ji

A nice interesting read. I do actually understand the message you are trying to give us.
It is somewhat difficult to explain and even so, more difficult for many to understand.

The attachment and detachment you mention is an important factor that we don't consider.

I believe the theory of why souls or spirits linger around and have no place to go.
Even though I don't think it mentions this directly in the Guru Granth Sahib.

But I'm sure we can't learn everything from the SGGS but can learn enough. The rest is taught to us through the paths we walk our life.


Sat kartar
Lucky Singh

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

Luckysingh said:

Amarjit ji

A nice interesting read. I do actually understand the message you are trying to give us.
It is somewhat difficult to explain and even so, more difficult for many to understand.

The attachment and detachment you mention is an important factor that we don't consider.

I believe the theory of why souls or spirits linger around and have no place to go.
Even though I don't think it mentions this directly in the Guru Granth Sahib.

But I'm sure we can't learn everything from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji but can learn enough. The rest is taught to us through the paths we walk our life.


Sat kartar
Lucky Singh

Click to expand...

Luckyji

I am sorry to see that you have managed to prove me wrong. It is extremely interesting, no doubt, and I also understand the message, do I believe it? absolutely not! I am more than happy to give due respect to anothers thoughts, but that does not mean I have to embrace them as the missing link that the SGGS forgot to mention.

Other more enlightened members of this forum feel the need to fight tooth and nail so that certain views are not given a platform in order that people contemplating Sikhi do not get confused or sidetracked, I feel we must respect all views, even if we do not embrace them.

To say that we cannot learn everything from the SGGS is a gross insult, it intimates that there are large blanks that we can fill in using such theories, this is wrong, there are no souls lingering around with no place to go in Sikhism, no souls, no ghosts, goblins, spirits, nothing, and certainly no blanks, choose your path wisely my friend, or you may find yourself a jack of all trades and master of none

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

harry haller said:

Luckyji

To say that we cannot learn everything from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a gross insult, it intimates that there are large blanks that we can fill in using such theories, this is wrong, there are no souls lingering around with no place to go in Sikhism, no souls, no ghosts, goblins, spirits, nothing, and certainly no blanks, choose your path wisely my friend, or you may find yourself a jack of all trades and master of none

Click to expand...

In these dimensions are many elemental and
spirit creatures). <TABLE style="WIDTH: 90%; BACKGROUND: #f0f0ff" border=1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=7><TBODY><TR><TH>10 </TH><TD>ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਭੂਤ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਸੂਕਰ ਮ੍ਰਿਗਾਚ ॥
Ka▫ī kot bẖūṯ pareṯ sūkar marigācẖ.
Many millions are the evil nature-spirits, ghosts, pigs and tigers.
ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਕੇ ਵਾਸੀ ॥
Ka▫ī kot pāṯāl ke vāsī.
Millions upon millions are the dwellers of the under-worlds.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

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Harry ji

Satnaam Waheguru. For the last 15 years or so Babaji has showed me many times we have other dimensions around us.

The veil between our and other dimensions is very thin.

This is why we have to be careful of our Kam Krodh Lobh Moh Hankar
as we when we give into temptation the Veil breaksdown allowing other beings to enter into our forcefield. (aura!

Amarjit

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

Anyone who even remotely considers himself a Sikh (much more if Singh)....CANNOT even think that the SGGS..our GURU is "incomplete..cannot teach us everything..cannot lead us through life..is NOT suitable enough...whatever.."
That is the Grossest INSULT anyone can lay at Guru Jis Charan...Guru Ji may forgive such a thought..because after all He is all forgiving and compassionate and merciful..but a fellow Sikh/Singh cannot ever stomach such esp if it comes form another sikh/singh.
This is WHY the Bhatts wrote such poetry comparing Guru ji to the Earlier Avtaars..of Satyug, Dwaper, etc etc...because those Avtaars were less "Sampooran"...only GURU NANAK Ji is Sarab kala Sampooran..ALL COMPLETE. btw The Sikh GURU is NOT an Avtaar also.....because Gurbani REJECTS such man made titles as is clearly stated in SGGS.
I may sound Harsh..but its MY GURU thats being chided as Incomplete/not good enough for "everything" etc...and thats not acceptable to me. MY GURU SGGS is fully complete and fully capable of teaching me everything i need to know.

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

amarjit singh bamrah said:

(In our Sacred Sukhmani Sahib Astpadi 10 Babaji talks of many dimensions​

In these dimensions are many elemental and
spirit creatures). <TABLE style="WIDTH: 90%; BACKGROUND: #f0f0ff" border=1 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=7><TBODY><TR><TH>10 </TH><TD>ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਭੂਤ ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਸੂਕਰ ਮ੍ਰਿਗਾਚ ॥
Ka▫ī kot bẖūṯ pareṯ sūkar marigācẖ.
Many millions are the evil nature-spirits, ghosts, pigs and tigers.
ਕਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਪਾਤਾਲ ਕੇ ਵਾਸੀ ॥
Ka▫ī kot pāṯāl ke vāsī.
Millions upon millions are the dwellers of the under-worlds.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Click here: Sukhmani - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.

Harry ji

Satnaam Waheguru. For the last 15 years or so Babaji has showed me many times we have other dimensions around us.

The veil between our and other dimensions is very thin.

This is why we have to be careful of our Kam Krodh Lobh Moh Hankar
as we when we give into temptation the Veil breaksdown allowing other beings to enter into our forcefield. (aura!

Amarjit

Click to expand...

Amarjitji

I have been a pig, snorting up copious amounts of substances, I have been a ghost, lost to the world in my own daze of what I felt was reality, and I have been a dweller of the underworld, so engrossed in maya that I lost sight of the real world.This quote from Sukhmani Sahib is being distorted to scare people with stories of ghoolies and ghosts, they do not, to my mind, confirm the existence of other worlds.

Having said that, I say tomato, you say tomaeto, to you these may seem like different dimensions, to me they are a state of mind, each to his own

You say
when we give into temptation the Veil breaksdown allowing other beings to enter into our forcefield. (aura!


I say

When we give into temptation we distort our perception of the reality around us

tomato!

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

harry haller said:

To say that we cannot learn everything from the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is a gross insult, it intimates that there are large blanks that we can fill in using such theories, this is wrong,

Click to expand...

I was talking in a literal sense. I didn't learn E=mc2 directly from the Guru Granth Sahib, but from following Einstein's work.( who was by all means given his ability with the blessings of the creator)
What I stated was that the other things we learn to condition ourselves in our own distinct paths of life come to us in the directions that we take our steps. Just like a kid learns to ride a bike or learn to swim.

Everything we need to learn about life including its purpose is all there in the ultimate guide left to us 'the SGGS', which I did state is 'enough'. But all the rest, the practical things, including as kids-how we learnt to eat, drink, urinate etc etc.. is all handed to us as we proceed in our paths.
Of course, this is all in order of the creator for our welfare and well being.
The origins and foundations to everything, always trace back to the infinite creator.

Lets try to not go off track here dissecting each others dialogue.
But, focus on the title and the original subject the post is about.


Sat kartar
Lucky Singh

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

Lets try to not go off track here dissecting each others dialogue.
But, focus on the title and the original subject the post is about.


that would be a first lol

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

Amarjit ji

I say yet again, I do understand what you are trying to say in the original post.
It is in your own style of writing and all of us each have our own different styles.

I think that after getting into the swing or wavelength of the others style it becomes easier to get their message.
Maybe its just me? I'm not sure, although if I don't get the message, then I will say.
I have studied nearly all my life and even did graphology along the way, perhaps it's that?

Getting back to the topic.

What happens when we die?
I did at one time often question- 'is this life all there is?'
What is the real purpose of why i'm here? because everything that I would look at around me be it trees,insects, fruit, nature they each and all had their very own purposes. This often got me wondering that why me, just myself among all fellow humans is my purpose??

Thankfully, I don't wonder about these things any more, well maybe just a little at times.
It has all been thanks to the faith. The Guru Granth Sahib still keeps on giving me more answers. Waheguru.

Talking to many others, I'm aware that the interest in knowing what happens when we discard our body like a shell is vast among us.

Perhaps, knowing what could happen makes the individual a better being?

Lets say, I can commit crimes here with confidence of not getting caught. But, knowing that after my death, I may have to face the lord and I may be begging for forgiveness.
Just knowing this, could infact stop me taking any action to commit crimes, even though I may be a professional crime lord.

What I'm trying to say is that -YES, knowing can be of benefit. However, NOT KNOWING may be of benefit as well, - as one would try and maximise their achievements in this life span.
Having the 'we are not supposed to know' attitude could even be beneficial.

I think that what ever we think we know or believe is always going to do some GOOD- as long as it brings out the BEST OF US in one way or the other.

With my upbringing as a child I was taught about going to heaven, angels, the lord, gates of heaven, St Peter, etc. (from christian influence).
In all honesty whether it was christian or not, it taught me and bought out the best of me grew into this world.
As a child, knowing that if i'm good the angels will protect me, certainly influenced the making of my character today.

To me personally, I never think that this life is all there is. I feel that death is just the beginning NOT the end. Just to have the belief and awareness that after death, I can have the chance to unite with God providing I have lived this life the accepted, intended and pleasing way. This simple motive gives me everlasting hope and awareness.

I also feel that it is just attachments that give us all a fear of death.
ie. fear of leaving loved ones, how will they cope ? How much estate the goverment taxes will take off the family?-- ALL attachments that in our minds we have attached great importance to.

According to the hukam of God, I believe we all have our own distinct times mapped out by the lord. Not knowing this date and time should encourage us all to make the most of each day.
We should also try to control our holds over the attachments.
This is the part that does sometimes get me thinking. Let me be a little clear-

Having control over the attachments, be it our immediate family. Let's say my kids and my partner. How do I exactly draw the line, if any, of how attached I am to my blood family? Being prepared to detach is sometimes not imaginable. I mean Guru Gobind Singh actually knew that in the name of faith he would be detached from his sons Ajit,Jujhar,Zorawar and Fateh Singh. All young and loveable to him.
Guru Gobind Singh ji set us the ultimate example, but still we are too weak, not many of us could detach from our children in the same manner.

Not forgetting he lost his father in the same manner.
I'll be honest, I could never make such a difficult decision so as to sacrifice my kids.
Having that example should be goals that we could all aim for.

Getting back, I was trying to say, that we are also to show love to all mankind.
God doesn't expect us NOT to love our children. But, where do we draw the fine line between attachment/detachment and love?
This is my concern. Because having love results in attachment.
Or are we supposed to have love with no or minimal attachment somehow??

I would appreciate some views and thoughts.

Sat kartar
Lucky Singh

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

Luckysing Veer ji some thoughts.

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What happens when we die?
I did at one time often question- 'is this life all there is?'
What is the real purpose of why i'm here? because everything that I would look at around me be it trees,insects, fruit, nature they each and all had their very own purposes. This often got me wondering that why me, just myself among all fellow humans is my purpose??

Click to expand...

Physically something like the following,

Perhaps, knowing what could happen makes the individual a better being?

Click to expand...

Veer one has to differentiate between “being better” versus “being best”. One comes from fear and the other comes from love and gratitude. The latter is ever refreshing and long lasting.

Lets say, I can commit crimes here with confidence of not getting caught. But, knowing that after my death, I may have to face the lord and I may be begging for forgiveness.
Just knowing this, could in fact stop me taking any action to commit crimes, even though I may be a professional crime lord.

Click to expand...

Committing crime and God/Creator are separate issues. Creator only impacts through creation and is not sitting in a separate palace deciding your fate after death and taking count of good and bad you did.

Committing crime and dealing with creation is the short answer. It is the creation all around which is self regulating in such instances.

To me personally, I never think that this life is all there is. I feel that death is just the beginning NOT the end. Just to have the belief and awareness that after death, I can have the chance to unite with God providing I have lived this life the accepted, intended and pleasing way. This simple motive gives me everlasting hope and awareness.

Click to expand...

Veer ji uniting with God is a falsehood as a physical or virtual concept.

Imprinting on the creation is reality. Guru Nanak Dev ji is imprinted on millions of lives, that is uniting with God/creator. Guru Nanak Dev ji is as alive as he was for those who never met him face-to-face during his physical life time. This is uniting with God/creator. There are many other examples in like manner.


So one has to strive to be one of the best that you can be and leave the rest with creation to so recognize.

Having control over the attachments, be it our immediate family. Let's say my kids and my partner. How do I exactly draw the line, if any, of how attached I am to my blood family? Being prepared to detach is sometimes not imaginable. I mean Guru Gobind Singh actually knew that in the name of faith he would be detached from his sons Ajit,Jujhar,Zorawar and Fateh Singh. All young and loveable to him.

Guru Gobind Singh ji set us the ultimate example, but still we are too weak, not many of us could detach from our children in the same manner.

Not forgetting he lost his father in the same manner.

Click to expand...

Veer you have cited a wonderful example. What brings strength in such situations? Hard to say as everyone is different. The fundamental aspect is seeing it as part of living.

The most important that I feel in this regards is the legacy that you impinge on others. What was that mother Theresa left behind? A concept that embodied what was possible in selfless service.

I'll be honest, I could never make such a difficult decision so as to sacrifice my kids.
Having that example should be goals that we could all aim for.

Getting back, I was trying to say, that we are also to show love to all mankind.
God doesn't expect us NOT to love our children. But, where do we draw the fine line between attachment/detachment and love?
This is my concern. Because having love results in attachment.
Or are we supposed to have love with no or minimal attachment somehow??

Click to expand...

Veer there is nothing wrong with love and attachment. What one has to recognize and reconcile with is that we and all transform all the time. One can have love and attachment but if one has trained self to allow transformation to make changes and be at peace with such, then you have enjoyed the fruits as well as reconciled the fall season.

So more important than getting rid of the beauty of life, attachments or no attachments is to develop and build abilities to accept ever continuing change.

Just some thoughts.

Sat Sri Akal.

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

Ambarsaria said:

So more important than getting rid of the beauty of life, attachments or no attachments is to develop and build abilities to accept ever continuing change.

Just some thoughts.

Sat Sri Akal.

Click to expand...

Ambersaria ji

Many thanks for approaching these awkward questions with that phraseology and manner.

It makes me realise that sometimes we should all change our bearings when we can't seem to get any answers or feel like we are up against a brick wall.
Your quote above about developing and building abilities to 'ACCEPT EVER CONTINUING CHANGE' is one of the interesting lines that I have come across lately.

It makes me realise that so many individuals in this world self inflict suffering, pain, resentment, guilt, depression etc...... as a direct result of REFUSING TO ACCEPT continuing change.
The remedy sounds simple, but its easier said than done.


Waheguru
Lucky Singh

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

Ambarsaria said:

Luckysing Veer ji some thoughts.

.

So more important than getting rid of the beauty of life, attachments or no attachments is to develop and build abilities to accept ever continuing change.

Just some thoughts.

Sat Sri Akal.

Click to expand...

I too applaud you Ambarsaria Veerji

We all have to be open to changes.
If only everyone thought this way the world would be a better place.

We must respect everyone which is what Guru Nanak Baba teaches us.

Everyone is correct in the way they think for they look at the
situation their own way.

Judge not lest ye be judged comes in my mind

Satnaam

amarjit

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

Luckysingh said:

I was talking in a literal sense. I didn't learn E=mc2 directly from the Guru Granth Sahib, but from following Einstein's work.( who was by all means given his ability with the blessings of the creator)
What I stated was that the other things we learn to condition ourselves in our own distinct paths of life come to us in the directions that we take our steps. Just like a kid learns to ride a bike or learn to swim.

Everything we need to learn about life including its purpose is all there in the ultimate guide left to us 'the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji', which I did state is 'enough'. But all the rest, the practical things, including as kids-how we learnt to eat, drink, urinate etc etc.. is all handed to us as we proceed in our paths.
Of course, this is all in order of the creator for our welfare and well being.
The origins and foundations to everything, always trace back to the infinite creator.

Lets try to not go off track here dissecting each others dialogue.
But, focus on the title and the original subject the post is about.


Sat kartar
Lucky Singh

Click to expand...

Luckyji

What you actually said

I believe the theory of why souls or spirits linger around and have no place to go.
Even though I don't think it mentions this directly in the Guru Granth Sahib.

which is not quite the same as what you are currently intimating, I do not make a habit of dissecting others posts, but I feel a responsibility to point out misleading information, this subject is covered in the SGGS and is not the same as how we eat or urinate, my point was that in attempting to see a different point of view, we must be careful we do not give validation within Sikhi to concepts that do not belong in Sikhi, and I will carry on doing so to protect the religion that I love from being watered down to the lowest common denominator

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

Amarjitji,

As you have very kindly quoted me, I feel I must respond to your post. I am not going to criticise you for it, as you are a man of all religions, and as such, the message of your post is very simple, one should have no attachment to any other than God.

However, there are two aspects that bother me, which I will outline

1. This post appears all over the internet and has been posted on various forums, however, on other forums Guru Nanak ji has been replaced with Sai Baba, again, not a problem, you follow all religions, but the sort of ritual and Vedic undertones could not be ascribed to Guru Nanakji as he fought and advised against them, I know not what Sai Baba tought, as I am a Sikh, but I sure know that Guru Nanakji would not read this and agree with you, as this post advocates reincarnation, ghosts, previous lives, effects of previous lives etc, I know this is a Sikh forum, but I think I and many others would prefer to see you use Sai Baba as you have on other forums so that concepts that our Gurus advised against are not lauded on their name.

2. I know of no man who has had a conversation with God, other than messiahs, I know of no man who has seen God, who has interacted with God as you appear to do so on a regular basis, Shall I tell you why?, because certainly in Sikhism God has no form, no light shows, no large TV, We rely on our faith in Creator and Creation with no magic tricks or light shows, I put it to you Sir that your faith is grounded in these light shows and conversations, they are enough to convert even the most hardened atheist, so it is no surprise you are converted, the rest of us have to make do with nothing but the words of our living Guru to direct us and sustain us, it hardens your faith, it is unshakeable, would your faith be as strong if Babaji stopped visiting you and found something better to do with his time? Would you still believe if you had no visits? I would appreciate your answer on this one.

You are welcome to your view Veerji, and I will respect it, however, as you have decided to interact with us, I would appreciate your answers so I may learn more about the message you are attempting to foist on us.

Respect Peace, I look forward to your answer

mundahug

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

harry haller said:

Amarjitji,

As you have very kindly quoted me, I feel I must respond to your post. I am not going to criticise you for it, as you are a man of all religions, and as such, the message of your post is very simple, one should have no attachment to any other than God.

However, there are two aspects that bother me, which I will outline

1. This post appears all over the internet and has been posted on various forums, however, on other forums Guru Nanak ji has been replaced with Sai Baba, again, not a problem, you follow all religions, but the sort of ritual and Vedic undertones could not be ascribed to Guru Nanakji as he fought and advised against them, I know not what Sai Baba tought, as I am a Sikh, but I sure know that Guru Nanakji would not read this and agree with you, as this post advocates reincarnation, ghosts, previous lives, effects of previous lives etc, I know this is a Sikh forum, but I think I and many others would prefer to see you use Sai Baba as you have on other forums so that concepts that our Gurus advised against are not lauded on their name.

Click to expand...

Come on Harry Haller ji you are being too hard on Veer Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji. He is only trying to share his confusion and mis-direction with or without a motive.

Is the Sai Baba same guy who used to produce Gold Chains out of thin air, that is what the followers were led to believe. Apparently he had a stash of these in his armpit and a bit of slight of hand. A magician billionaire, just tells you how much darkness exists out there. Harry veer ji I keep telling you to start a religion/Dehra and it will be more profitable than a computer shop icecreammunda. We can ask for Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji to be part of the team to do our mis-leading advertising by cutting and pasting. I hope Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji should be big enough to receive turd in return for turd.

Say yes please! mundahug

Sat Sri Akal.

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

Ambarsaria said:

Come on Harry Haller ji you are being too hard on Veer Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji. He is only trying to share his confusion and mis-direction with or without a motive.

Is the Sai Baba same guy who used to produce Gold Chains out of thin air, that is what the followers were led to believe. Apparently he had a stash of these in his armpit and a bit of slight of hand. A magician billionaire, just tells you how much darkness exists out there. Harry veer ji I keep telling you to start a religion/Dehra and it will be more profitable than a computer shop icecreammunda. We can ask for Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji to be part of the team to do our mis-leading advertising by cutting and pasting. I hope Amarjit Singh Bamrah ji should be big enough to receive turd in return for turd.

Say yes please! mundahug

Sat Sri Akal.

Click to expand...

Dear Ambarsaria Ji

He is indeed one and the same

I will not hijack this thread as there are other threads on Sai Baba on this forum and you can easily google plenty of material including the riches that were found in his?/dera's? possession after his passing last year

I also endorse Harry Ji's comments about copying and pasting Sai Baba's lessons on this forum. I would prefer if Amarjit Ji could share his own thoughts and leave us to Google Sai Baba's teachings ourselves if we ever get the inclination to do so

I hope I have not caused offence by stating this

Re: Lessons from god- what happens when we die- where could we go- what is attachment & detachment

Seeker9 said:

I hope I have not caused offence by stating this

Click to expand...

Veer Seeker9 ji you have more class than many Sikhi losers put together here. Don't feel a pinch for such but feel for the dis-service to Sikhism these turban wearing avatars are doing!

Sat Sri Akal.