The Current State Of Sikhism In The West

AmarvelliSinghMaur said:

Satsriakal Fellow Pajis and Penjis, and elders on this forum.
Im Amar Singh Maur, and I am new to this forum and i am 18 years old having be born and brought up in England.
Now introducing my arrival to this forum, id like to say that i am very young in terms of knowledge of our religion and i am learning punjabi and i would very much look towards to learning about Sikhi.
But in my young life so far, in the west Sikhism is in a state which pretty much contradicts all the principles Sikhi founded its self upon.
Im a very keen reader in to philosphy and demecroacy and my inspirations step from martin luther king, malcom x and the late bhagat Singh.
My mom has always told me to speak my mind, especially whatever i hold inside my mind.
Having lived in England as a Singh, life has been difficult at times, espically being outcasted by members our own community who have decided to opt the modern look of being clean shaven and selling out there principles to fit in a drinking era.
Now before i talk about the current state of Sikhism i want to talk about the factors which i feel are responsible for the decline of Sikhs who follow the rehat of keeping hair.

The first is the mismanagement of our Religion by the religious institutes and leaders.
The problem here is that Sikhism has lowered its standards to allow even the most delinquent Punjabi raised individual to classify themselves as Sikhs.
This is simply the incorrect approach to Sikhism, and even God himself.
Whatever we achieve after death, mukhti, or being born in to cycle of rebirths is down to our lives, the life we lived, and our points must be accumulated for us to be allowed to reach god in our after life, we have to work towards that goal of being united with God.
The management of Sikhism has completely got this wrong, and has given 'Sikhs' the lowered entry requirements to be called themselves there Sikh by accepting people who have cut hair and people who live life which go against the principle of Sikhs.
This same principle applies to life.
If i were to apply for a university to study, i am expected to achieve the grades to be allowed entry, i have to earn my strap, earn my points to achieve that entry.
If universitys told me, that hey whatever you get we will let you in, do you think i will work just as hard ?
Most people will be lazy and just accept that ill be accepted regardless and there is no need to work hard, because the entry requirements have been lowered.
This is the problem of our Sikhi, we have lowered our values, our entry requirements, our principles to what qualify as a Sikh.
With this mindset, people think that whatever they do they are still a part of Sikhism, cutting there hair, drinking, and it doesn't matter no matter what they do they will be part of our religion.
What about those who fulfill the principles our religion was born on ?
Is it right for someone such as those who follow the principles and values as the same person who defies the rules ?
With this lowered accepting anything mindset, has led to people do what they please and has led to youths rebelling against religion and tradition in search of women, by becoming clean shaven.
These people have caused more damaged to the Sikh society, than then being apart of the religion.
This question begs the question
We see many debates going on in the Gudwara about 1984, what about the debates on what makes a Sikh ?
What about teaching what being a Sikh is ?
I have never heard in a temple which clearly rejects the notion of cutting hair.
We need to very correctly define what a Sikh is and allow the younger Sikhs to have a direction to follow rather than terming anyone who is born in to a sikh family with cut hair being a Sikh.

The main problem is that Gudwara committees simply do not have the courage to speak up about the current state of Sikhism, and more importantly what defines a Sikh.
This is because our religion is a commercial asset to the committees which run our temples. If they were to speak up about the wrongs of cutting hair, they know that the people who are in the wrong will simply not come to the gudwara and simply lose out on potential income which may come from them such as programs regarding path and langer sewa.

This is my honest view, fellow Sikhs feel free to debate as i have spoken my mind, and i want to hear your fellow views.
Amar

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But in my young life so far, in the west Sikhism is in a state which pretty much contradicts all the principles Sikhi founded its self upon.

Click to expand...

Having lived in England as a Singh, life has been difficult at times, espically being outcasted by members our own community who have decided to opt the modern look of being clean shaven and selling out there principles to fit in a drinking era.

Click to expand...

Now before i talk about the current state of Sikhism i want to talk about the factors which i feel are responsible for the decline of Sikhs who follow the rehat of keeping hair.

Click to expand...

Whatever we achieve after death, mukhti, or being born in to cycle of rebirths is down to our lives, the life we lived, and our points must be accumulated for us to be allowed to reach god in our after life, we have to work towards that goal of being united with God.

Click to expand...

The management of Sikhism has completely got this wrong, and has given 'Sikhs' the lowered entry requirements to be called themselves there Sikh by accepting people who have cut hair and people who live life which go against the principle of Sikhs.

Click to expand...

If i were to apply for a university to study, i am expected to achieve the grades to be allowed entry, i have to earn my strap, earn my points to achieve that entry.

Click to expand...

This is the problem of our Sikhi, we have lowered our values, our entry requirements, our principles to what qualify as a Sikh.

Click to expand...

With this mindset, people think that whatever they do they are still a part of Sikhism, cutting there hair, drinking, and it doesn't matter no matter what they do they will be part of our religion.

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Is it right for someone such as those who follow the principles and values as the same person who defies the rules ?

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With this lowered accepting anything mindset, has led to people do what they please and has led to youths rebelling against religion and tradition in search of women, by becoming clean shaven.

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These people have caused more damaged to the Sikh society, than then being apart of the religion.

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We need to very correctly define what a Sikh is and allow the younger Sikhs to have a direction to follow rather than terming anyone who is born in to a sikh family with cut hair being a Sikh.

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harry haller said:

Amarji

Welcome to the forum, I have some comments



I see, whereas in India, Sikhism is in an almost perfect state? Personally I think if Sikhism is to be the global religion and way of life that the Gurus envisaged, then the first thing we need to do is strip away all the bad Punjabi facets that have penetrated Sikhi. In India, the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji is seen more as an idol, to be worshipped and prayed to, to be asked things from, with ceremony, pomp, ritual. The very Vedic practices that were advised against, have also managed to find their way into many Gurdwaras. Compare the actions of the Indian leadership with the US leadership when the Wisconsin shootings occured. It is the West that will save Sikhism....



Oh well at least we have not embraced hard drugs yet..........



I see we have two extremes of ages embracing this, wonderful!



In my opinion, doing good deeds for a reward is wrong, doing good deeds to make a goal happen takes so much away from the deed itself, some would say we are already united with God, giving a beggar food for God that lives within the beggar is admirable, giving a beggar food to accumulate brownie points, I feel, is not so.


Hair is something beautiful, in my view the love for hair must be earned, I find it most depressing to speak to a turbanned Sikh who has no idea about the fundamental foundations of Sikhism.



What in fact you are advocating is that wearing a turban automatically earns that strap, it does not.....
Your misunderstanding what Im saying here. Every religion has its own principles, and just following them without dedication and a spiritual connection it is simply not enough. What does it mean to be a Sikh ?
The principles the foundation of being a Sikh are clearly misunderstood by you and your attempts at stating that a turban doesn't make you any more of a Sikh then me is just a justification for you to against the entire concept of what a Sikh is. Just like anything in life, we must start from the basic principles and understand what the principles mean and why there are there for. The principle of keeping our natural form, our hair to begin with is a concept which cant be debated on, regardless of you trying to justify your beliefs, this is a fact. Cutting or editing our form is tampering our body's natural form, If you suggest that this concept has no truth or validity, perhaps you should take note from the form of Gurus who remained and advoated Sabat Surat. If Guru ji simply didn't find the need to express the importance of natural form, then the Khalsa wouldn't have simply been created.

Our Sikhi? no this is YOUR Sikhi. I have my own relationship with Creator, and it has nothing to do with anyone else. However, in my relationship, I see no need to force my views on others. Let every person find God in their own way, in their own time, at thier own pace.



Hmm, how do you feel about fully haired non drinking Sikhs that elevate hard core porn to the same level as the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji? Yes, there is a very big picture here, and it is bigger than attempting to split Sikhism even further.

Again what has porn have to do with this ?
Again stick to the topic, regarding the principles in the making of a Sikh. Before we talk about the sexual lives of others I first want to debate on the principles making a Sikh.


In this world, it is the insane, those that defy the rules that sometimes talk the most sense, Kala Afghana has been excommunicated for defying the rules, are you talking about all rules, or just the hair one?

Everyone has the responsibility and morality to do the right thing, the principles based in Sikhi have no evil in them and nor should a discussion start about rebelling against them.
Rebelling and standing up for what is right, is being just and should be a principle every human should have, regardless of black, white or brown.
Martin Luther King, Malcom X are good examples of rebelling against wrong for a just cause.
The core principles of Sikhism should be taught and help us define what defines a Sikh. Once our heart accepts Sikhism to its full, there will be no debate about disregarding the principles as we will accept them as a natural element of our souls as well as our bodies.

ah just the hair rules then,

Oh obsolutley, along with the misguiding of our youths and our people who have completely no clue about what being a Sikh is.

I dont think so, we just try and live our lives as good Sikhs, implementing the core directives, before embracing the uniform, I do not see myself as worthy to wear a turban, one day I will, and I will be proud to be a full member of the Khalsa, but I will do so in my own time, if we follow your line of thinking, we will have armies of well equiped soldiers who have no idea what they fight for, or indeed how to fight.

Oh Right, But let me put this in to another perspective. A mans feelings inside his heart can normally be expressed on his face and his physical appearance. You say that Sikhism may run inside your heart, but why doesn't it transcend to the outside and let your Sikhi truly flourish ?
We can express feelings of fear and depression, happiness to our physical form, why cant we express our Sikhi ?
Or is the feeling mutual or doubtful ?
Before anyone even decides to call themselves a Sikh from the inside, they must understand the core values which defines a Sikh.If you cant simply grasp or many others chose to reject these principles how can one fully feel the relationship of Sikhi with the creator ?. Developing your Sikhi is absolutley fine, and that is your path not mine. But i completely reject this notion that many people use that they are not worthy to wear a turban.
Why should Sikhi lower its standards for you to be called a Sikh, Should god lower his standards for you to be accepted after death ?
No we must up our standards so we are allowed entry, to be united with God.
The management our religion have confused equality with principles, and this mismanagement has even allowed the most rebelling person to be called a Sikh.
No one is born a Sikh, Sikh means to learn and we have to develop our Sikh to reach God. Without following the core principles, how we can develop our faith ?
Again. this is a debate of principles not war or force conversion, so don't bring the whole army facade.

or we could concentrate on making sure that those with hair realise the responsibility that they carry, by being visual ambassadors of Sikhism. By your definition, I am not a Sikh, how very noble and inclusive of you.

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Ishna said:

[evil Ishna]

Well then ship 'em all back to Punjab where they can do drugs, kill female babies and worship Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as an idol without even knowing what it says.

Seriously, the 'western corruption' argument is a bit of a joke (like the above), Mr Vaulack JI. When Punjab is a pristine paradise, THEN you can start blaming the problems of the Sikh world on other countires. Until you can sort out the crap in your own backyard don't try criticising others.

[/evil Ishna]

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AmarvelliSinghMaur said:

And why should others carry that responsibility to carry that responsibility that many chose to reject and rely on others to visually represent ?
Everyone born in this planet has there own responsibilities to fulfill and neither anyone else should be carrying out those responsibilities for you.
The whole concept you have put forward of others carrying the flag shows that responsibility is not down to yourself but others, and this completely wrong on a intellectual level. Instead of telling others to understand there responsibility you should understand that you have your own responsibilities and that is not down to others to fulfill.
Before calling yourself a Sikh, understand that responsibilities both in your spiritual life and your professional life are down to you, not others.
Before we make new temples, we should concentrate on making Sikhs and the management of Sikh should advocate the principles and concepts which will allow people to understand what makes a Sikh.
Our religion was born from martyrdom, sacrifice, devotion to God and having the courage to fulfill there own responsibilities.
The current crisis that Sikhism is suffering is far beyond the cutting of hair, but a complete lack of education from a cultural perspective and spiritual perspective in what will allow people to become Sikhs that can aid the development of our sangat as a whole.
This is the responsibility that should have been carried out by Higher authorities in the Gudwara, to guide Sikhs and help them learn to walk this path of Sikhi. But sadly, having been to many gudwaras especially in the west, this responsibility to teach the younger generation has been sacrificed for commercial gain. To those who say the young girls and guys who wander from Sikhi are unworthy of Sikhs, is completely incorrect. Many of these youths are misguided and have no education about Sikhism, highlighting the failure of our temples for guiding and teaching how these youths can be Sikhs. Humans are not animals, but through the correct education an individual can be come anything they wish to, and when many start to understand Sikhism on an intellectual level this can be the spark of a spiritual journey towards becoming a Sikh.
It is the responsibility for the elder heir-achy to teach and educate the youngsters can be at least given the chance to understand and develop there own spiritual connection.
The elder committee of each gudwara, should all be first and for most good Sikhs and have the responsibility to connect the sangat to the spiritual gudwara. If sangat listen or don't, but what if that one person s has taken aboard these thoughts and has become interested in becoming a Sikh ?
Give these youngsters the chance to learn, including myself.
We hear many speeches in the gudwara about donations to 1984 families and charities, we hear many speeches about the formation of Khalistan, but why not dedicate time towards the youth who may have come every weekend but will have not have the slightest idea what is being said because many people have come from homes where punjabi is not spoken. Sikhs have become educated in the western world and are fluent in English and these Sikhs should dedicate at least an hour every day to educate these youngsters in english so they can at least can understand something which may lead to further desire to learn about Sikhism.
We don't need donations, we don't need money, we don't need guns and we certainly don't need a separate country yet.
We need teachers, we need Sikhs who care.

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harcharanjitsinghdhillon said:

another big probelm in sikhism, is conversion to other religions is going on very strongly at the moment. if only they can strengthen up their knowledge on sikhism, then surely they won t be influence easily.. we need really good teachers to teach in a very modern style to attract our sikh young youths, so they will get attracted towards it.. modern style means a new way of approach in teaching. all the true satgurus came down to take the whole society in a right direction,, there was no intention from this true satgurus to create religions and subdivision.. religions were mankind creation after this gurus left. this is my oppinion hope it won t hurt anybody feelings

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harry haller said:

Good, now we are singing from the same song sheet, let us not detract from the important issues in Sikhism by focusing on the one issue, which if handled incorrectly, could well limit the amount of young people looking for the truth. We owe it to educate and include everyone, not just those who choose to commit transgressions in full public view rather than in private,.

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Parma said:

The thing is Amar ji, you can not ban people! You never know though Amar ji go to your local gurdwara and give this a go try an experiment ban all sehajdari sikhs and all other people that have not got the 5 k's from going to the gurdwara see if this improves the sikhi in that area! You never know!You will either lose your 5 k's stance or the other sikhs, either way one of them will have to give! You can not control peoples thoughts if your happy with the full 5 k's perception of sikhism then fine but it does not define sikhism to the core as the real message is about peace! The rest is just the icing on the cake! Look at message of the guru, nothing else is more important than that, like the langar part although it is an important part of sikhi and so are other traditions important to sikhism like the 5'ks, sikhism is a religion and everything just falls around the message of the Guru Granth Sahib ji, get that part right understanding the message and the other parts are just a basis for understanding humanity that take effect! If you have love for humanity you may want to feed it hence the Langar and other things that are incorporated into the sikh faith and so forth.

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AmarvelliSinghMaur said:

Pama Ji, I am not advocating banning anyone because that is completely wrong.
The underlying issue is that the lack of education presented from the elders to the younger generations, and the title of being a Sikh is being handed straight away without the individual begining on the journey to learn.
This significantly dilutes the value of being a Sikh, as the main principle of being a Sikh is to learn which is clearly not present in the younger generations.
How many youths do you think would know the answer to the meaning of langar and where did langar originate from ?
Many do not understand the principle behind langaar.
We need to educate our youngsters and this is the responsibility of all the elders, passing on there knowledge to the youngsters.
The committees have just assumed and lowered there values to claim everyone is a sikh without teaching them the core principles which define our religion.

Sikh is about learning and is not a title anyone can be handed to, regardless of uncut or cut hair.

Perhaps we might not stop everyone cutting there hair, But maybe we can educate that 1 youngster who can begin to lead a life of spirituality and help promote the principles to there fellow brothers and sisters.
Im speaking this eyes iv seen through, im one of the youngsters who find it difficult to learn more about more religion and i one of the many who fail to find an education about the identify they have.
We need to change, and everyone needs to help and teach one another instead of just handing out the title to the complete unknown.

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Ishna said:

[evil Ishna]

Well then ship 'em all back to Punjab where they can do drugs, kill female babies and worship Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji as an idol without even knowing what it says.

Seriously, the 'western corruption' argument is a bit of a joke (like the above), Mr Vaulack JI. When Punjab is a pristine paradise, THEN you can start blaming the problems of the Sikh world on other countires. Until you can sort out the crap in your own backyard don't try criticising others.

[/evil Ishna]

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1.Lust: Premartial and extramartial intercourse is prohibited in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji.But in west around 30-40% marriages end up in divorce;and extramartial intercourse as per social studies is around 40%.In villages of Punjab promiscuity and egotism is less pronounced thus much lower divorce rate,but divorce rate is increasing in cities as people are becoming westernize.Moreover prostitution and pornography is common in western countries.Even there are a few Sikh pornstars like Sunny Leone.

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2.Crime and human rights violation(motivated by anger/greed/lust/egotism):Crime rate in western countries is higher in than Punjab in terms of thefts,murder,domestic violence,rape,gang rapes.Serial killers are not found in Punjab. Western countries have been worst offenders of human rights for centuries-slave trade,colonialism,massacres,world wars.For instance,in Jallianwala Bagh massacre around 1000 people were killed,but to this date NO FORMAL apology
has been issued by British Government.Western countries attacked and killed(directly or indirectly) around 1000000 Iraqis,mainly poor people,when there was no reason to attack them,as it is crystal clear now.I don't want to go into further details but would like to mention that in general people of Punjab have used violence to defend their community rather than to offend and terrorize others.

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3.Greedlease visit global issues.org to know details that why developing nations are poor;poverty in third world countries is not consequence of scarcity of resources but it is perpetuated by western countries by their economical policies and sanctions (through IMF and World Bank).And greed is prevalent to such an extent that around 5 % elite people in western countries possess around 99% of wealth in these countries.And as per Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji greed and happiness are inversely related.Despite being rich suicide rate is much higher in western countries than Punjab,because people of Punjab have more prosperous life even they are poor as per western standards.

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4.Racism(motivated by egotism):Though casteism is common in Punjab,on the parallel racism is present in every European/western country.Western authorities directly or indirectly involved in institutional racism to promote white supermacy agenda.I would like to share my personal experience-I have two email account one with a western name,created to know discrimination, and another with Sikh name and I made enquiries regarding research studies at several departments in certain western countries.To my dismay I got around 20% replies with my Sikh name compared to almost 90% ENTHUSIASTIC replies with christian/western name,even when content of my enquiries was similar.Attack on Sikh temple in USA is a recent example of racism.

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In other words if situation is 'bad' in Punjab then it is 'worse' in western countries.

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