Yogism Yoga To Reach Chauthaa Pada, The Fourth State

dear all members
sat sri akal. in our human birth rights, actually we had already been given 4 types consciousness. the 3 types maya consciousness we are always experiencing it in our daily life..but the probelm is with the fourth stage, because it is earned in deep meditation.. so my question is there are many types of yoga available in indian mysticisms.. so which type of yoga is in line with sikh thought, that can take us easily to the fourth stage thru meditation? if i am not mistaken some types yogas are rejected in sikhism.. please discuss here and give your oppinions and reasons

http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart87.htm

Sat sri akal, ji
I think the simple answer most Sikhs would give is that yoga plays no part in Sikh devotion. From my own experience, though, I've found it exceedingly beneficial. Yogi Bhajan has delivered a form of yoga he calls Kundalini Yoga, which, of all the schools of yoga, is certainly the one most bound to Sikh doctrine. The asanas and kriyas all involve gurbani chants and concepts, and the disciplines taught are all very much uplifting of the Sikh ideals. In my experience, this yoga, if applied with devotion and rigour, can indeed transport the believer to other levels of consciousness. Very sanctified.
Yogi Bhajan came to America in the early seventies and taught his science to mainly white hippie type people and, as such, I personally find some new-age mumbo-jumbo is woven into some of his teachings, because this is whom he was speaking to. Having said that, I would strongly endorse the application of this yoga in Sikh practice in general, because without a doubt, it heightens the spiritual experience and strength of Sikhs, and it has the power to cut through complacency and dry obedience that spiritual life tends to be reduced to in everyday practice.
Also, for further discussion, there was a good book written by Surindar Singh Kohli called "Yoga of the Sikhs", which discusses much of the relevance of yoga to Sikhi.

harcharanjitsinghdhillon said:

when we are running after the naams, then we go into a very deep meditation or devotion or a type of yoga.. i had also heard about SAHAJ YOGA,, no any types of rituals are involve in it.. just devotion to god by love, and his remembrance thru out the day. paying attention on his attributes and qualities. but we must remember that spirituality starts at the third eye and above, the rest below the eyes are just maya energy centres applicable to the body only. consciousness of the soul starts at third eye centre.. we cannot find naams outside, all this treasure is located inside of us.. when we have reach at the ultimate goal of kundalini, the naam yoga starts. so kundalini is still the lower maya forces. this is just my oppinion please correct me, if i am wrong. thanks and sat sri akal

Page 359, Line 18
ਜੋ ਕਿਛੁ ਕਰੈ ਭਲਾ ਕਰਿ ਮਾਨਉ ਸਹਜ ਜੋਗ ਨਿਧਿ ਪਾਵਉ ॥੧॥
जो किछु करै भला करि मानउ सहज जोग निधि पावउ ॥१॥
Jo kicẖẖ karai bẖalā kar mān▫o sahj jog niḏẖ pāva▫o. ||1||
Whatever the Lord does, look upon that as good; thus you shall obtain the treasure of Sehj Yoga. ||1||
Guru Nanak Dev - [SIZE=-1]view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok[/SIZE]

Click to expand...

The EMPHASIS here as in Each and every Tuk in SGGS is on ACTION...and the ACTION is DOING...ACCEPTING. Watch what Guru Arjun Ji is DOING...the Creator has WILLED that Guru ji be seated on a Hit Plate...and Guru Arjun Ji accepts that whatever the Lord does is GOOD..he sees he Creator in his Tormentors..and says''Dosh na kahoon devohn..I DONT BLAME ANYONE....and TERA BHANNA MEETHA LAGGEH..I ACCEPT YOUR SWEET WILL my Lord and Master !! THIS is SEHAJ JOG (PATH) in ACTION.

This is what we SIKHS are shown..TAUGHT to EMULATE----in our Daily LIVES..accept His WILL..Carry out HIS WILL..neither overly happy (at birth of boy..job promotion..lottery strike..etc etc) and neither overly heartbroken (over death of a spouse..failure in exam..or sacking form lucrative job..or burnt down factory warehouse..crash of bank and savings gone etc etc)...SEE GOD IN ALL....do and BEHAVE as IF this is TRUE..is the SEHAJ JOG PATH....so the HUMAN LIFE CHANGES and shows on our Faces...

JOG in SIKHI is not closing eyes, mumbling naams, sitting in certain positions etc etc etc...THOSE dont help in CHANGING YOUR LIFE....unless these are for a short period like exercises to help the PHYSICAL BODY...and NOT as pretense to open third eyes, fourth steps chautha padds blah blah.
Whatever meditation/exercise is very MODERATE vs the Time actually SPENT IN HONEST LABOUR...SHARING the returns form that Honest labour and walking the Sehaj Jog Path towards seeing GOD in ALL...

In this Century the Best example of a Sikh follwoing this SEHAJ JOG PATH is BHAGHAT POORAN SINGH if Pinggalwarra. Look at his life and point out how many "seconds" in his dialy 24 hours he spent closing his eyes, mumbling naams, twiddling his thumbs, trying to reach the chautha padd and opening his third ye kundllanni etc etc...EACH SECOND of his LONG LIFE was spent in ACTIVE SERVICE of his HUMAN BROTHERS...he was Japping NAAM exactly as the SGGS teaches...and he is the One and ONLY TRUE BHAGHAT as in the SGGS Bhagats style...Ravidass mended shoes..Kabir wove cloth..dhanna farmed..sadhna sold butchered meat....namdev was weaving...for a LIVING earning HONEST labour and distributing wealth of Naam...active lives as did pooran singh !!
SIDDH GHOSHT Gurbani of Guur nanak ji makes all this clear..Guru ji didnt accept any of the teachings of the Yogis siddhs etc.

The tuk above mentions the 'treasure of sehaj yoga'.
Guruji points that this treasure can be obtained otherwise or without the yoga practice.
What is the treasure ?
I would say we are talking about ''Sehaj Avastha'
This is a state that one can reach with pure focus on the One and it is the state of being absolutely absorbed and balanced in connection.
The persons state is steady and free from materialistic happiness or sadness, joy or pain..etc..

Gettiing to this state of sehaj is an advanced state of God-realisation.

What does Guruji say about the "true yoga." When the terms of yoga are taken out of the context of the shabad of course one gets the thought that SGGS must be a practitioner's guide.

A Sidh did YOGA for 20 Years and realized he had the power to WALK on WATER.
A Sikh PAID a Boatman/FERRY 20 paisa to ferry him across the WATER..

A Sidh did Yoga for 50 years and could live without food..for periods of time
A Sikh just had a DIET PLAN..and fasted for periods of time..

Lesson" Dont waste time on YOGA..the result is not worth it...ha ha

Problem is that true yoga is not practiced by hardly any significant numbers.
True yoga is the union with the lord,which is not about breathing, mantras or body postural positions. It is about killing and eradicating your ''haume''
Once one can do this effectively,of course he/she experiences a 'rising'- BUT this is not some kundalini coil as some claim, it is simply 'God- realisation'' wher the being is virtually unaffected by any consistents of the maya world.
This being experiences no pain, no loss, no exciting joy, just bliss in being in union with the lord.

The Guru does not disapprove or condemn true yoga, but certainly disapproves of empty practicing and other materialistic 'pakhaands'.There are many shabadsthat highlight this.
However,the Guru does stress the importance of true yoga or union of one with the Lord,and this is what the shabads that are translated as favourable, refer to.
(True yoga)

I personally have always felt that attempts to find enlightenment, in whatever way, by meditating, chanting, etc to be a selfish gesture. I am not questioning the success of practice, however, is it a Sikh trait to be so selfish in ones pursuit of ones own enlightenment?

Most religions seem to operate on a reward/punishment system. Do this, say this, chant this, and you will surely wake up one day enlightened, maybe with superhuman powers, however, do not this, and burn in hell, whipped by demons,

I feel there is nothing more pure and holy than giving up your time, your energy, your money to make the world a better place, every hour is a chance at helping someone, something, even giving a plant some water, feeling the pain in the plant, assisting Creation in all its glorious forms, but for no reward whatsoever.

I do not think it takes yoga, meditation etc to find union, I think union is a state of mind that you can either encourage, or ignore.

For those that ignore this consonance, this union with the truth, and continue to try and find enlightenment for their own pursuits, I have only pity.

Do the right thing, because it is the right thing, not because of the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. The only pot of gold is the peace and contentment from living as you should be living, as you were designed to live, to be a slave to Creation, not to yourself.

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ਅਸਟਪਦੀਆ
रामकली महला ५ असटपदीआ
Rāmkalī mėhlā 5 asatpaḏī▫ā
Raamkalee, Fifth Mehl, Ashtapadees:
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
ੴ सतिगुर प्रसादि ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਕੀਆ ਪਰਵਿਰਤਿ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥
किनही कीआ परविरति पसारा ॥
Kinhī kī▫ā parviraṯ pasārā.
Some make a big show of their worldly influence.
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਕੀਆ ਪੂਜਾ ਬਿਸਥਾਰਾ ॥
किनही कीआ पूजा बिसथारा ॥
Kinhī kī▫ā pūjā bisthārā.
Some make a big show of devotional worship.
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਨਿਵਲ ਭੁਇਅੰਗਮ ਸਾਧੇ ॥
किनही निवल भुइअंगम साधे ॥
Kinhī nival bẖu▫i▫angam sāḏẖe.
Some practice inner cleansing techniques, and control the breath through Kundalini Yoga.
ਮੋਹਿ ਦੀਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਆਰਾਧੇ ॥੧॥
मोहि दीन हरि हरि आराधे ॥१॥
Mohi ḏīn har har ārāḏẖe. ||1||
I am meek; I worship and adore the Lord, Har, Har. ||1||
ਤੇਰਾ ਭਰੋਸਾ ਪਿਆਰੇ ॥
तेरा भरोसा पिआरे ॥
Ŧerā bẖarosā pi▫āre.
I place my faith in You alone, O Beloved Lord.
ਆਨ ਨ ਜਾਨਾ ਵੇਸਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
आन न जाना वेसा ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ān na jānā vesā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
I do not know any other way. ||1||Pause||
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਗ੍ਰਿਹੁ ਤਜਿ ਵਣ ਖੰਡਿ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
किनही ग्रिहु तजि वण खंडि पाइआ ॥
Kinhī garihu ṯaj vaṇ kẖand pā▫i▫ā.
Some abandon their homes, and live in the forests.
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਮੋਨਿ ਅਉਧੂਤੁ ਸਦਾਇਆ ॥
किनही मोनि अउधूतु सदाइआ ॥
Kinhī mon a▫uḏẖūṯ saḏā▫i▫ā.
Some put themselves on silence, and call themselves hermits.
ਕੋਈ ਕਹਤਉ ਅਨੰਨਿ ਭਗਉਤੀ ॥
कोई कहतउ अनंनि भगउती ॥
Ko▫ī kahṯa▫o annan bẖag▫uṯī.
Some claim that they are devotees of the One Lord alone.
ਮੋਹਿ ਦੀਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਓਟ ਲੀਤੀ ॥੨॥
मोहि दीन हरि हरि ओट लीती ॥२॥
Mohi ḏīn har har ot līṯī. ||2||
I am meek; I seek the shelter and support of the Lord, Har, Har. ||2||
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਕਹਿਆ ਹਉ ਤੀਰਥ ਵਾਸੀ ॥
किनही कहिआ हउ तीरथ वासी ॥
Kinhī kahi▫ā ha▫o ṯirath vāsī.
Some say that they live at sacred shrines of pilgrimage.
ਕੋਈ ਅੰਨੁ ਤਜਿ ਭਇਆ ਉਦਾਸੀ ॥
कोई अंनु तजि भइआ उदासी ॥
Ko▫ī ann ṯaj bẖa▫i▫ā uḏāsī.
Some refuse food and become Udaasis, shaven-headed renunciates.
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਭਵਨੁ ਸਭ ਧਰਤੀ ਕਰਿਆ ॥
किनही भवनु सभ धरती करिआ ॥
Kinhī bẖavan sabẖ ḏẖarṯī kari▫ā.
Some have wandered all across the earth.
ਮੋਹਿ ਦੀਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਦਰਿ ਪਰਿਆ ॥੩॥
मोहि दीन हरि हरि दरि परिआ ॥३॥
Mohi ḏīn har har ḏar pari▫ā. ||3||
I am meek; I have fallen at the door of the Lord, Har, Har. ||3||
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਕਹਿਆ ਮੈ ਕੁਲਹਿ ਵਡਿਆਈ ॥
किनही कहिआ मै कुलहि वडिआई ॥
Kinhī kahi▫ā mai kulėh vadi▫ā▫ī.
Some say that they belong to great and noble families.

ਕਿਨਹੀ ਕਹਿਆ ਬਾਹ ਬਹੁ ਭਾਈ ॥
किनही कहिआ बाह बहु भाई ॥
Kinhī kahi▫ā bāh baho bẖā▫ī.
Some say that they have the arms of their many brothers to protect them.
ਕੋਈ ਕਹੈ ਮੈ ਧਨਹਿ ਪਸਾਰਾ ॥
कोई कहै मै धनहि पसारा ॥
Ko▫ī kahai mai dẖanėh pasārā.
Some say that they have great expanses of wealth.
ਮੋਹਿ ਦੀਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਆਧਾਰਾ ॥੪॥
मोहि दीन हरि हरि आधारा ॥४॥
Mohi ḏīn har har āḏẖārā. ||4||
I am meek; I have the support of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਘੂਘਰ ਨਿਰਤਿ ਕਰਾਈ ॥
किनही घूघर निरति कराई ॥
Kinhī gẖūgẖar niraṯ karā▫ī.
Some dance, wearing ankle bells.
ਕਿਨਹੂ ਵਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਮਾਲਾ ਪਾਈ ॥
किनहू वरत नेम माला पाई ॥
Kinhū varaṯ nem mālā pā▫ī.
Some fast and take vows, and wear malas.
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਤਿਲਕੁ ਗੋਪੀ ਚੰਦਨ ਲਾਇਆ ॥
किनही तिलकु गोपी चंदन लाइआ ॥
Kinhī ṯilak gopī cẖanḏan lā▫i▫ā.
Some apply ceremonial tilak marks to their foreheads.
ਮੋਹਿ ਦੀਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਧਿਆਇਆ ॥੫॥
मोहि दीन हरि हरि हरि धिआइआ ॥५॥
Mohi ḏīn har har har ḏẖi▫ā▫i▫ā. ||5||
I am meek; I meditate on the Lord, Har, Har, Har. ||5||
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਸਿਧ ਬਹੁ ਚੇਟਕ ਲਾਏ ॥
किनही सिध बहु चेटक लाए ॥
Kinhī siḏẖ baho cẖetak lā▫e.
Some work spells using the miraculous spiritual powers of the Siddhas.
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਭੇਖ ਬਹੁ ਥਾਟ ਬਨਾਏ ॥
किनही भेख बहु थाट बनाए ॥
Kinhī bẖekẖ baho thāt banā▫e.
Some wear various religious robes and establish their authority.
ਕਿਨਹੀ ਤੰਤ ਮੰਤ ਬਹੁ ਖੇਵਾ ॥
किनही तंत मंत बहु खेवा ॥
Kinhī ṯanṯ manṯ baho kẖevā.
Some perform Tantric spells, and chant various mantras.
ਮੋਹਿ ਦੀਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸੇਵਾ ॥੬॥
मोहि दीन हरि हरि हरि सेवा ॥६॥
Mohi ḏīn har har har sevā. ||6||
I am meek; I serve the Lord, Har, Har, Har. ||6||
ਕੋਈ ਚਤੁਰੁ ਕਹਾਵੈ ਪੰਡਿਤ ॥
कोई चतुरु कहावै पंडित ॥
Ko▫ī cẖaṯur kahāvai pandiṯ.
One calls himself a wise Pandit, a religious scholar.
ਕੋ ਖਟੁ ਕਰਮ ਸਹਿਤ ਸਿਉ ਮੰਡਿਤ ॥
को खटु करम सहित सिउ मंडित ॥
Ko kẖat karam sahiṯ si▫o mandiṯ.
One performs the six rituals to appease Shiva.
ਕੋਈ ਕਰੈ ਆਚਾਰ ਸੁਕਰਣੀ ॥
कोई करै आचार सुकरणी ॥
Ko▫ī karai ācẖār sukarṇī.
One maintains the rituals of pure lifestyle, and does good deeds.
ਮੋਹਿ ਦੀਨ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਹਰਿ ਸਰਣੀ ॥੭॥
मोहि दीन हरि हरि हरि सरणी ॥७॥
Mohi ḏīn har har har sarṇī. ||7||
I am meek; I seek the Sanctuary of the Lord, Har, Har, Har. ||7||
ਸਗਲੇ ਕਰਮ ਧਰਮ ਜੁਗ ਸੋਧੇ ॥
सगले करम धरम जुग सोधे ॥
Sagle karam ḏẖaram jug soḏẖe.
I have studied the religions and rituals of all the ages.
ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਨ ਪ੍ਰਬੋਧੇ ॥
बिनु नावै इहु मनु न प्रबोधे ॥
Bin nāvai ih man na parboḏẖe.
Without the Name, this mind is not awakened.
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਜਉ ਸਾਧਸੰਗੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥
कहु नानक जउ साधसंगु पाइआ ॥
Kaho Nānak ja▫o sāḏẖsang pā▫i▫ā.
Says Nanak, when I found the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy,
ਬੂਝੀ ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ ਮਹਾ ਸੀਤਲਾਇਆ ॥੮॥੧॥
बूझी त्रिसना महा सीतलाइआ ॥८॥१॥
Būjẖī ṯarisnā mahā sīṯlā▫i▫ā. ||8||1||
my thirsty desires were satisfied, and I was totally cooled and soothed. ||8||1||

true treasures, all are found in our body not outside. outside all actions done are still under the grip of maya, 3 gunas.. the highest outside you can earn thru actions is only to satvic level, but ego is still there not killed or crucified yet. if there is god outside, then god is also there inside us. then if there is maya outside then there is maya also inside us. ultimate goal in meditation is to reach to the 10th gate above the eye. meditation or yog is a process of moving your consciousness from the grosser part to the most subtle part of matter then finally getting detach completely from matter.. on the journey you will meet the sample of maya inside you.. inorder to distract you from truth maya will show you POWERS. your duty is to fix your mind to NAAM, not to this powers because if you pick them up you are lost. 3 gunas powers are very powerfull it can get you distracted from the truth. many great yogis has also fallen into this trap.. maya will try it best to reassemble you, and preserve your ego, but only NAAM will show you the path to get the ego crucified or to dismantle you.. this is my oppinion do correct me if i am wrong.. sat sri akal

http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart63.htm

harcharanjitsinghdhillon said:

true treasures, all are found in our body not outside. outside all actions done are still under the grip of maya, 3 gunas.. the highest outside you can earn thru actions is only to satvic level, but ego is still there not killed or crucified yet. if there is god outside, then god is also there inside us. then if there is maya outside then there is maya also inside us. ultimate goal in meditation is to reach to the 10th gate above the eye. meditation or yog is a process of moving your consciousness from the grosser part to the most subtle part of matter then finally getting detach completely from matter.. on the journey you will meet the sample of maya inside you.. inorder to distract you from truth maya will show you POWERS. your duty is to fix your mind to NAAM, not to this powers because if you pick them up you are lost. 3 gunas powers are very powerfull it can get you distracted from the truth. many great yogis has also fallen into this trap.. maya will try it best to reassemble you, and preserve your ego, but only NAAM will show you the path to get the ego crucified or to dismantle you.. this is my oppinion do correct me if i am wrong.. sat sri akal

http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart63.htm

Click to expand...

Harcharanji

Phew thats complicated! I do not believe you are wrong at all, I think it all sounds very wise and possible, but here is where I believe it slips up. I would like to think that Sikhism is different from a lot of eastern religions in that it is very very simple. It had to be simple, so that everyone could understand it, from the untouchable toilet cleaner, to the owner of the local mill, and more importantly so that the message was consistent, so that each person went away understanding what his or her role was in life. And for everyone that role was very simple, see God in everything, fear nothing, be ready to commit yourself to the assistance of another, and stand up for the truth.

I cannot see how this lifestyle is compatible with those who feel the need to try and find the 10th gate above the eye, other than to be able to say, 'I found it!!!!!', ok, you found it, now what?

harcharanjitsinghdhillon said:

true treasures, all are found in our body not outside. outside all actions done are still under the grip of maya, 3 gunas.. the highest outside you can earn thru actions is only to satvic level, but ego is still there not killed or crucified yet. if there is god outside, then god is also there inside us. then if there is maya outside then there is maya also inside us. ultimate goal in meditation is to reach to the 10th gate above the eye. meditation or yog is a process of moving your consciousness from the grosser part to the most subtle part of matter then finally getting detach completely from matter.. on the journey you will meet the sample of maya inside you.. inorder to distract you from truth maya will show you POWERS. your duty is to fix your mind to NAAM, not to this powers because if you pick them up you are lost. 3 gunas powers are very powerfull it can get you distracted from the truth. many great yogis has also fallen into this trap.. maya will try it best to reassemble you, and preserve your ego, but only NAAM will show you the path to get the ego crucified or to dismantle you.. this is my oppinion do correct me if i am wrong.. sat sri akal

http://www.gurbani.org/articles/webart63.htm

Click to expand...

I can't disagree with any of this but getting 10th gate open is like seeing a new dimension. It is not the answer, but it can certainly help you on the journey.
To be able to use a good tool like meditation and naam simran to help kill your haumai is useful for weak people like me, but I'm sure others can do it otherwise by living and behaving in pure gurmat manner.
We are discussing getting to a higher level after one can get rid of their haumai.
I believe that people like me have to use something to take our attention away from the 'me,me,me'. Meditating or naam simran can do just that. It can help you divert your attention away from your real daily self. Because to be able to kill your haumai, you need to be able to separate yourself from it first.

However me being a meditation guy, I can still also agree with Harryji.

When you can live and accept everything under his divine hukam, then eventually you can reach a state where there is no more ''me or I''
When you can carry on conducting your life with this living, then your haumai has been killed because you believe and totally accept that -There is No you, it is ALL him and it is ALL his way.

At this stage, you will certainly be on the higher level of consciousness.

It does not matter how many charities you give, if at the end of the day you do not give all the credit to God.
It does not matter if you are available for people, if at the end of the day you cannot find any peace within.
It does not matter how much you assist others, if at the end of the day you think that you helped them.

Sat Sri Akal, family
At the risk of getting scolded by the administrator again (sorry!), let me say one more thing about yoga. We Can Elevate! Sikhi is, without a doubt, the most pure faith represented on Earth, but this doesn't mean our everyday lifestyle in the Sikhi consciousness is necessarily at its peak.
By way of example, let me say: when I am in Punjab, although this is a most beautiful and blessed place, I encounter, even in the midst of wonderful, devout Sikh communities, occasions of gross soil pollution, noise pollution, air pollution, woman suppression, caste consciousness, also racism.
I was in Amritsar a few years ago with two African guests, the woman friend was from Senegal and thus very dark Black. I felt bad for her because at the great mandir, the long line of people filing to enter the gurdwara were gazing at her with absolutely undisguised rudeness and bewilderment, as a crowd might look at someone from mars, walking naked. Mind you, this was not out of malice, like people had fixed positions about Aryan supremacy or anti-Black bigotry, but rather just unabashed ignorance of the unfamiliar, expressed in unintentional rudeness.
Some years ago, I was showing a high leader of another spiritual community (in the Semitic tradition) a wooden staff I was carrying that had a passage of Sukhmani Sahib etched in it. He asked me what it said. I gave him the translation and said it was from the Sikh scriptures, originating in India. His response was "India?...They worship rats!". This was his perception of Indian spirituality and the extent of his knowledge or interest in India. I know somewhere in India there are indeed temples where rats are revered (probably not worshiped, though), but with this one ignorant indictment he had swept away thousands of years of philosophy, history, scripture, culture, four religions, and centuries of high spiritual science. It would be a shame to likewise dismiss some real merit in certain yogic practice based on a sweeping view that 'yoga is an indulgent waste of time'.
My point is that even though we live the very highest teachings, it's ok to realize we can still elevate. The comments I've read in this thread generally dismissing the merit of yoga in Sikhi betray, quite frankly, the position of one who has never really tasted the experience. Discriptions like yoga is 'sitting in a corner, twiddling your thumbs, or sitting in silly postures, indulging in vain self-exploration rather than engaging in the real world' are the observations of one who has not genuinely tried Sikh Kundalini Yoga. I am not a salesman for this science, nor am I a member of Yogi Bhajan's community. I am simply saying, if we took the time to actually taste this science, rather than falling back on pat, uninformed dismissals of all yoga as self-indulgent, selfish and futile, we would learn that this Kundalini Yoga, is really just a art of extending our prayer and devotion into physical discipline. Done properly, it clears the mind, heightens awareness, strengthens the spine and body, teaches stamina and endurance, and, yes, might even give a feeling of transcendant joy and spiritual ecstasy.
You see, in this case, this has nothing to do with wasting your time off in a corner, absorbed in wasteful pursuits, but rather brings all these attributes into engaging the world clearer, stronger, more joyfully.
Again, I am selling nothing, but rather encouraging us to be willing to contemplate higher ways of doing things without dismissing them out of hand because of preconceived notions that may not be true.
Sorry about the meandering logic, but in the midst of our everyday practice there is always room for more holiness and higher heights.

We may do Yoga for some time, get peace, stretch our bodies. But Sikhi is Saas Saas. For every breath that you have. And one who is conscious of Akaal, he is the biggest Jogi!

The problem is that we don't fully understand what yoga really is.
It is absolutely pointless and stupid to be arguing or deciding if yoga is a part of sikhism.

Yoga is actually a part of life.
It is how we conduct ourselves in union with creation and ourselves.
We eat and drink whilst upright, we try and sleep whilst lying down, we do may other tasks in suitable postures. This is all yoga or union with ourselves and creation.

If someone claims or recommends that we meditate to focus on the lord with eyes closed, sitiing upright and taking long breaths, then is this wrong ?
When feeding our bodies has to be done in certain suitable positions to succeed in that union, then to try and focus on our God-light within is also done better in a suitable position and environment.

We should focus on the true meaning of yoga and not the health/recreational banner society has put it under.

Interesting, could it be that actually, the connection one gets through meditation is not Creator at all but simply the tiny essence of Creator within . As wonderful as the results may be, in my view, they are no match for a living breathing secular relationship with the Creator, not just the miniscule

If I may be blunt, meditation in the form of breathing/posture techinques merely feed the self, some might even say it is a path in the opposite direction of losing the self, it is embracing the self. To have an artificial environment where there are no thieves is along the lines of a eunuch proclaiming he has lost his sex drive.

I think looking at a sunrise atop a hill is a much more powerful meditations. It helps you capture yourself.

I find a sewa, especially if no one know I am doing it, calming. Something which I want to do well will take my mind off personal troubles which in the end are ridiculous anyway.