Re: Are the important scriptures of world religions simply opinions?
Good question
A good test for any Scripture would be to consider the answers to the following questions:
1) Who actually wrote it? Humans? (i.e did Jesus write any part of the Bible? Did the Prophet Mohammed write any part of the Koran)
2) Do the Scriptures still remain in their first and original form or do we only have access to translations?
3) Have the Scriptures been changed in any way, e.g old bits taken aaway, new bits added, and then x thousand years later, some old bits found again in earthen jars in caves and appear to contradict the currently accepted version...(I/m referring to the Dead Sea Scrolls here and the Councils of Nicea and their impact on The Bible!)
When you apply these questions to any Scriptures then Sri Guru Granth SahibJ very much stands out from the crowd!
:blueturban:
Edited post:
Just realised I forgot a very important fourth element! So to the above list I would add:
4) Timing / When were the Scriptures written? - were they written at the time the people and events they portary occurred? Or were they written decades even centuries later?
Ek OnKaar Sat Naam
Thank you for your response Seeker9 ji.
I completely agree it is possible to rank scriptures. Using such criteria as you list it is possible to select the ones that meet or exceed the set criteria.
SGGS ji does stand out for me, but to be fair, I only come to this conclusion from my upbringing, and without reading anything other than part of the new testament, the book of genesis, and very, very few snippets from buddhist and hindu works.
Had I been born into another faith, I expect I would have seen that faith as standing out above the crowd as well.
The point you made about when scriptures were written will usually make a difference with regards to authenticity - how much any scriptures can be expected to be in accord with the original "prophets'" scripts/words.
However, setting any points about authenticity, reliablity, and even merit aside, the point I was attempting to make was that absolutely all scriptures are based on the thoughts arising in somebody or another's mind, rather than through actual factual knowledge of God.
This makes them all opinion, and based on such a presumption that they have no subtantive evidence to support them, with regards to God, (rather than human behavioural traits), this makes everyone elses opinion on the same subject matter (God) potentially just as valuable, as what is already recorded in any scriptures.
This is what I was trying to suggest when I was informed this was very offensive to SGGS ji.
Of course it challenges current opinions about Sikhi. However any seekers of truth, in my opinion, should not be afraid of challenging any norms. If Guru Nanak Dev ji had not done so then Sikhi would not be what it is today.
The stanza I used at that time to support this claim that all the claims with regards to God in SGGS ji are based on opinion alone and that Guru Nanak Dev ji was of the same opinion, that they were all opinion, was pauri 3 in Japji Sahib:
Some sing of His Power.who has that Power? Some sing of His Gifts, and know His Sign and Insignia. Some sing of His Glorious Virtues,
Greatness and Beauty. Some sing of knowledge obtained of Him, through difficult philosophical studies. Some sing that He fashions the body, and then again reduces it to dust. Some sing that He takes life away, and then again restores it. Some sing that He seems so very far away. Some sing that He watches over us, face to face, ever-present. There is no shortage of those who preach and teach. Millions upon millions offer millions of sermons and stories. The Great Giver keeps on
giving, while those who receive grow weary of receiving. Throughout the ages, consumers consume. The Commander, by His Command, leads us to walk on the Path. O Nanak, He blossoms forth, Carefree and Untroubled. || 3 ||
I did not get a chance to elaborate further, but I will try to here:
To me this is quite clear cut. Guru Nanak is reconising that all the opinions about God are mere stories and there are countless variations of them. Regardless of their nature, people swallow the stories untill they tire and move on to a revised or new version. Regardless of the stories, it is the One who positions us, by virtue of His Hukam, to listen to such tales. When one recognises them to be nothing but tales, then one breaks the bonds and chains to the set established norms of any religion, as one shifts from attachment from religion, to attachment to God (ie a higher plane). It leaves one enlightened, liberated or emancipated (from religion) ie neither Hindu/Mussalman (or an attached Sikh), but still worshipping God.
There is of course much more bani to support Guru Nanak's opinion that nobody really knows the nature of God:
eg:
P5:
How can we describe Him? How can we know Him? O Nanak, everyone speaks of Him, each one wiser than the rest. Great is the Master, Great is His Name. Whatever happens is according to His Will. O Nanak, one who claims to know everything shall not be decorated in the world hereafter. || 21 ||
If Guru Nanak Dev ji, the founder of Sikhi, does not know everything, and is not afraid to say so, then what is the problem of some current day sikhs when someone else says SGGS ji expresses opinion alone? Why should this be offensive? I would have thought, they would be pleased to note that Guru ji is not so arrogant to claim all knwledge of God, like some adherents to faiths with prophets do, when they claim their prophets were all knowing. However it seems to me a number of "sikhs" have now become very intolerant gatekeepers to the current norms of "their" religion, yet don't even consider just how perceptive and tolerant Guru Nanak was. He and subsequent gurus made sikhi universal, as evidenced in SGGS ji, but current sikhs have shut up shop and pulled down the shutters, with arrows pointed outwards through holes in the shutters, at anybody who comments on SGGS ji. Their first and foremost thought is to protect the Guru. I guess they are attached not to the universal truth of the bani, and hence to God, but to the form of Guru ji. I further guess that whilst in that state, they cannot progress spiritually and cannot move from being a sikh of the guru, in deference to the guru, to becoming a sikh of the lord, with no religion - neither Hindu, Mussalman or Sikh. The shabd will not strike their hearts, as their hearts are not attached to bani and the message it carries, but is attached to one particular manifestation of the Lord. The all pervasivenes of the Lord can never be recognised in this fashion, if one worships and protects one form of the Lord but not the next. "sarbat da bhalla" cannot be realised and never will be fully realised, as sarbat is ranked.
Let us look at more bani:
P875:
The Hindu is sightless; the Muslim has only one eye. The spiritual teacher is wiser than both of them. The Hindu worships at the temple, the Muslim at the mosque. Naam Dayv serves that Lord, who is not limited to either the temple or the mosque. || 4 || 3 || 7 ||
Guru ji, via Naam Dev, is pointing to worship of the Lord and not to worship of the trappings of a religion.
P327:
KABEER JEE, TI-PADAS: He cannot be obtained by offering your weight in gold. But I have bought the Lord by giving my mind to Him. || 1 || Now I recognize that He is my Lord. My mind is intuitively pleased with Him. || 1 || Pause || Brahma spoke of Him continually, but could not find His limit. Because of my devotion to the Lord, He has come to sit within the home
of my inner being. || 2 || Says Kabeer, I have renounced my restless intellect. It is my destiny to worship the Lord alone. || 3 || 1 || 19 ||
Guru ji, via Kabeer ji, speaks of hindus' offerings of gold to the Lord (whch persists to this day)but states this cannot buy the Lord; some sikhs make big offerings as well; Guru ji speaks of the Hindu scriptures - Brahma could not fully describe the Lord (as no-one can); Guru ji advises to worship the Lord alone and not the trappings of religion.
P83:
PAUREE: The Lord alone is the One Creator; there is only the One Court of the Lord. The One Lord's Command is the One and Only.enshrine the One Lord in your consciousness. Without that Lord, there is no other at all. Remove your fear, doubt and dread. Praise that Lord who protects
you, inside your home, and outside as well. When that Lord becomes merciful, and one comes to chant the Lord's Name, one swims across the ocean of fear. || 1 ||
Guru Ram Das ji advises to worship the One Lord alone. This will remove all doubts and fear, including the fears in the hearts of gatekeepers of religions. Religions are God's paths, so there is no fear of losing what he creates, destroys and recreates.
P66:
SIREE RAAG, THIRD MEHL: The soul-bird in the beautiful tree of the body pecks at Truth, with love for the Guru. She drinks in the Sublime Essence of the Lord, and abides in intuitive ease; she does not fly around coming and going. She obtains her home within her own heart; she is absorbed into the Name of the Lord, Har, Har. || 1 || O mind, work to serve the Guru. If you walk in harmony with the Guru's Will, you shall remain immersed in the Lord' s Name, night and day. || 1 || Pause || The birds in the beautiful trees fly around in all four directions. The more they fly
around, the more they suffer; they burn and cry out in pain. Without the Guru, they do not find the Mansion of the Lord's Presence, and they do not obtain the Ambrosial Fruit. || 2 || The Gurmukh is like God's tree, always green, blessed with the Sublime Love of the True One, with intuitive peace and poise. He cuts off the three branches of the three qualities, and embraces love for the One Word of the Shabad. The Lord alone is the Ambrosial Fruit; He Himself gives it to us to eat. || 3 ||
The self-willed manmukhs stand there and dry up; they do not bear any fruit, and they do not provide any shade. Don't even bother to sit near them-they have no home or village. They are cut down and burnt each day; they have neither the Shabad, nor the Lord's Name. || 4 || According to the Lord's Command, people perform their actions; they wander around, driven by the karma of their past actions. By the Lord's Command, they behold the Blessed Vision of His Darshan. Wherever He sends them, there they go. By His Command, the Lord, Har, Har, abides within our minds; by His Command we merge in Truth. || 5|| The wretched fools do not know the Lord's Will; they wander around making mistakes. They go about their business stubborn-mindedly; they are disgraced forever and ever. Inner peace does not come to them; they do not embrace love for the True Lord. || 6 || Beautiful are the faces of the Gurmukhs, who bear love and affection for the Guru. Through true devotional worship, they are attuned to Truth; at the True Door, they are found to be true. Blessed is their coming into being; they redeem all their ancestors. || 7 || All do their deeds under the Lord's Glance of Grace; no one is beyond His Vision. According to the Glance of Grace with which the True Lord beholds us, so do we become. O Nanak, the Glorious Greatness of the Naam, the Name of the Lord, is received only by His Mercy. || 8 || 3 || 20 ||
a) Guru Amar Das ji goes into the overriding nature of the Grace of the Lord (not of the practices of a religion). He will do as He pleases, so any readers should not get emotionally attached to any religion
b) The Truth is already within - no need to look outside
c) Follow the Guru - this reference to Guru is not any arrogant reference to Guru Amar Das ji, not Guru Angad Dev ji and not Guru Nanak Dev ji. This is Sat Guru, the ever resident Guru within, the best friend of the soul, the sajan that one works to meet, one can then interact with and one asks to introduce one to the Lord. It is the seed of the Lord within, that bestows inner conscience, that shows flamingoes offspring that are left behind, on how to feed and grow, and become parents themselves - it is innate knowledge - and is hence, yet again an incitation to break free from the chains of religion, and shift to worship of the One Lord
p10 and p495:
The flamingoes fly hundreds of miles, leaving their young ones behind. Who feeds them, and who teaches them to feed themselves? Have you ever thought of this in your mind?
d) The Lord alone is the ambrosial fruit. The Gurmukh is the tree, and in this context is now SGGS ji. We know SGGS ji embodies the joyt of liberated Gurmukhs, Guru Sahiban. However Guru ji is not saying we should be like the birds that fly around the tree. Reading the shabd should not result in stopping at the tree and worshipping the tree, or flitting in and around it. Reading the shabd should be engendering love for the One Lord, and causing one to settle on the tree with real purpose, that being to peck at the fruit ; if God so wills, this could yield the fruit - the Lord Himself. Ignorance of the fruit yet with knowledge of the tree, will leave one like the birds that fly around the trees, but never enjoy the fruit.
Sat Sri Akal
