Tragic Earthquake In Japan. Is It Fate? Is It Karma? Is It Living With "the Truth/God That Is Everyw

It is no question,

• a very heart breaking incident
• deserving of everyone's support,
  • to help morally
    • talk to people who have been directly impacted and provide words and deeds of support that they are not alone
    • volunteer, write, talk and communicate supportivily
  • to help rebuild
    • to provide resources that one can spare to help the injured and impacted re-build and find ways to continue through difficulties
      • monetary
      • physically
      • resouces
  • to show oneness with the people in this tragic circumstance
    • to indicate it is not God's vengeance or a result of any bad deeds and not be crass

I also believe that with this tragic situation fresh in our senses perhaps it is worth reflecting on how your faith relates to such situations.

Me being a Sikh will submit the following most humbly with others to correct me for any wrong (I apologize ahead!) or add as appropriate,

ੴ ਸਤਿਨਾਮੁ ਕਰਤਾ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਨਿਰਭਉ ਨਿਰਵੈਰੁ ਅਕਾਲ ਮੂਰਤਿ ਅਜੂਨੀ ਸੈਭੰ ਗੁਰਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥

ArQ:- Akwl purK ie`k hY, ijs dw nwm 'hoNd vwlw' hY jo isRStI dw rcnhwr hY, jo sB ivc ivAwpk hY, BY qoN rihq hY, vYr-rihq hY, ijs dw srUp kwl qoN pry hY, (Bwv, ijs dw srIr nws-rihq hY), jo jUnW ivc nhIN AwauNdw, ijs dw pRkwS Awpxy Awp qoN hoieAw hY Aqy jo siqgurU dI ikrpw nwl imldw hY[

God (the understanding of truth) everywhere is one and is known as the one truth, is the creator of all, present everywhere, without fear, without animosity, is timeless, is not guided by life cycles, is a self creation and is realized through its own (Guru/God) blessing.

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Comments on relationship to the tragic Japan 2011 Earthquake:

• It is the same truth/God that is functioning in all as one,
  • the people who passed away, the injured, the not injured and all of the non-physically injured (relatives of injured, spiritually, morally or other ways impacted by the event) whether they are in Japan or anywhere else
  • We are with them and they are with us
  • We are all one with everything around us and are part of it
• The greater truth that prevails in the whole Universe acts without fear,
  • • • The cruel as it may seem to us mortals, the greater truth that is the creator and purveyor of the Universe continues to proceed in creation and subsistence without fear and per the higher truth that in such times is very hard for us mortals to understand as it is,
    • Very painful
    • It is belief shaking
      • How can a fair God do such to innocent men, women, children and life!
    • However the fearless one being the creator of all that are impacted and of all many more that were not impacted, cannot be classified to be good or bad

• The greater truth that prevails in the whole Universe acts without animosity,
  • The one creator present in one and all is,
  • • not vengeful
    • friend of one (who survived) and enemy of another (injured or who died)
    • did not kill/injure through animosity,
      • so called "bad"
      • so called "ones with bad Karma"
      • So called bad who may be classified by some (not per Sikhism) to have done "bad in previous incarnations" or curse
      • so called bad who did bad deeds and reaping fruit

• The greater truth that prevails in the whole Universe being timeless,
  • As part of the understanding that one may have Sikhism projects that the one truth is not,
    • completely describable
    • is beyond complete understanding
    • ,and is, limitless.
  • Hence for us as in our alive stage as humans,
    • We may not fully understand,
      • Reasons for such (tragic) events
      • The timing of such (tragic) events
      • The relationship of such (tragic) events to the universe as one
        • As the transformation of one is for ever continuing in a timeless fashion

Bottomline for Sikhism:

• Without regard to race, religion or creed,

• • Hard as it is, one has to accept
  • We all being one need to feel the pain of others
  • We all being one need to do what we can to help

In the above spirit I submit my humble prayers, as a minimum, as a Sikh.

Sat Sri Akal.

Ambarsaria ji,

Very well put. Reading your post, well, brought more tears. We have been following the events in Japan very closely. It's a tragic loss. Thank you for your tribute to all involved in this tragedy. I really could not have said it better than that.

To be clear on this issue and others one has to undeerstand the Sikh notion of Karma.

It's not about bad deeds or good deeds. We have to accept the laws of nature, and it is up to us to be able to help ourselves within the constraints of these laws and the "Ultimate Reality" "Onkar" gives us the ability to work within these contraints and help our selves within them.

This could have been worse if people had not been rescued, Buildings were not earthquake proofed etc, all abilities bestowed to us through "Onkar"

Ambarsaria ji

I believe I share the same bottom line with you. It is important to know about the suffering of the people of Japan, so that as Sikhs we are spurred to help alleviate that suffering, however we are able to do so.

Thanks

Natural catastrophes lead us to seek answers regarding Karma. So it is good to understand your roots which are spiritual in nature. The human body and the physical world is a temporary world. What doesn't change is our Soul which is seated within the physical body. The body is one day going to perish anyway, whether it is caused by natural disasters, road accidents, or diseases. We just have to understand that permanent nature of ourselves. In Gauri Sukhmani M.5 that's all we can say:-
The One Lord Himself destroys and also preserves (marai rakhai eko aap)
Nothing at all is in the hands of mortal beings (manukh kai kich nahi haath)

randip singh said:

to be clear on this issue and others one has to undeerstand the sikh notion of karma.

It's not about bad deeds or good deeds. We have to accept the laws of nature, and it is up to us to be able to help ourselves within the constraints of these laws and the "ultimate reality" "onkar" gives us the ability to work within these contraints and help our selves within them.

This could have been worse if people had not been rescued, buildings were not earthquake proofed etc, all abilities bestowed to us through "onkar"

Click to expand...

Why did "Onkar" not create a more perfect universe, devoid of all these earth-quacks and other such disasters?
The answer that "we cannot understand His leela" does not seem much convincing.
Can any one give a simple answer, without play of words, that a common person can understand.

namjap said:

Natural catastrophes lead us to seek answers regarding Karma. So it is good to understand your roots which are spiritual in nature. The human body and the physical world is a temporary world. What doesn't change is our Soul which is seated within the physical body. The body is one day going to perish anyway, whether it is caused by natural disasters, road accidents, or diseases. We just have to understand that permanent nature of ourselves. In Gauri Sukhmani M.5 that's all we can say:-
The One Lord Himself destroys and also preserves (marai rakhai eko aap)
Nothing at all is in the hands of mortal beings (manukh kai kich nahi haath)

Click to expand...

I agree with Randip ji who has said,

and it is up to us to be able to help ourselves within the constraints of these laws and the "Ultimate Reality" "Onkar" gives us the ability to work within these contraints and help our selves within them.

Click to expand...

But I also think that today we see in stark terms what is in metaphor "the terrible world ocean." We are very small. We think we are much greater and more important than we are. We are part of the creation which is always being created, destroyed and re-created. I also agree with NamJap on this point "understand your roots which are spiritual in nature." That is what gives us the advantage of a permanent and indestructible consciousness, and provides deliverance from being victims, only victims, of natural forces. It is not to say that there will be no suffering. The mind suffers, the body suffers. Spirit does not have to suffer.

ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਭੈ ਕਾ ਬੋਹਿਥਾ ਨਦਰੀ ਪਾਰਿ ਉਤਾਰੁ ॥੪॥
Sathigur Bhai Kaa Bohithhaa Nadharee Paar Outhaar ||4||
The True Guru is the only boat on this terrifying ocean. His Glance of Grace carries us across. ||4||

Randip Singh said:

It's not about bad deeds or good deeds. We have to accept the laws of nature, and it is up to us to be able to help ourselves within the constraints of these laws and the "Ultimate Reality" "Onkar" gives us the ability to work within these constraints and help our selves within them.

This could have been worse if people had not been rescued, Buildings were not earthquake proofed etc, all abilities bestowed to us through "Onkar"

Click to expand...

Randip Singh ji I thank you for an excellent point posted so succinctly. As my normal self, I want to add some comments probably not as succinct but in terms of dialog.

Whereas Sikhism teaches us about the single (oneness) truth/ocean (nature, God) that we reside in, there are no limits placed on our thinking or wherewithals to live healthier, more safely or more happily within it in consonance with everything in the Universe. Can we perceive everything, Can we predict everything, Can we recognize everything, ….! The answer probably is we cannot. Are we getting better at it? The answer probably is yes? Are we getting better at it through understanding spirituality (say Sikhism) and Science (science is not a conflict for Sikhism)? My answer would be, yes we are, on both counts.

Reasons why I believe like Randip Singh ji in the positive evolution of oneness (consistent with Sikhism principles as Sikhism is not benign towards Science but supports us to use all the gifts we have towards betterment),

• Plagues used to kill millions, where are we now!
• Cholera used to kill millions more, where are we now!
• Infections used to kill millions, antibiotics and care where are we now!
• Smallpox used to infect, disfigure and make people extremely sick, where are we now!
• As Randip Singh ji stated specific to Earthquakes, such and earth quake in old days on a cold night in an Indian village with mud-houses (say the great earthquake in Quetta, Pakistan early last century) would have killed nearly 100% of the villages, where are we now!

So is God/oneness/nature/"the truth" that Sikhism espouses going to give you a perfect world on a platter, the answer is no. But the same has given us the wisdom to understand and work towards one.

Any comments!

Regards to all.

Sat Sri Akal.

namjap said:

Natural catastrophes lead us to seek answers regarding Karma. So it is good to understand your roots which are spiritual in nature. The human body and the physical world is a temporary world. What doesn't change is our Soul which is seated within the physical body. The body is one day going to perish anyway, whether it is caused by natural disasters, road accidents, or diseases. We just have to understand that permanent nature of ourselves. In Gauri Sukhmani M.5 that's all we can say:-
The One Lord Himself destroys and also preserves (marai rakhai eko aap)
Nothing at all is in the hands of mortal beings (manukh kai kich nahi haath)

Click to expand...

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Being true to myself and saying what I think, I find the following in your post as hocus-pocus as you write,


Neither the physical nor the spiritual as one entity “me”, “you” is indestructible or permanent. My understanding is that both are “transformational”.

• Physically we will merge back into the elements or “transform” back into where we came from in a long series of transformations of many other animate and in-animate elements
  • We become dust and in-animates
  • Parts of us become vegetation or part of such transformation
  • Parts of us become part of different life forms
    • Including be part of other human beings through the food chain

Budha Hoya Sheikh Farid.....

YouTube - Budha Hoya Sheikh Farid.....

• Spiritually or Soul (soul for me is understanding of being) wise we,
  • We leave our imprints in part on our children
  • We leave imprints on relatives and neighbors “souls” and the related changes therein
  • We leave our impacts on other souls through our interactions be those positive or negative
  • The chances of an “identical soul” of “you”, “me”, “others” in like form are “nil”
    • But then again why should it be a worry as we are all one and the oneness was there before our birth and will be there

Dekh Bande Ke Bhag | Read Bhagat Farid Bani with Bhai Harjinder Singh Srinagar Wale | Gurbani

YouTube - Dekh Bande Ke Bhag | Read Bhagat Farid Bani with Bhai Harjinder Singh Srinagar Wale | Gurbani

Regards.

Sat Sri Akal.

namjap said:

Natural catastrophes lead us to seek answers regarding Karma. So it is good to understand your roots which are spiritual in nature. The human body and the physical world is a temporary world. What doesn't change is our Soul which is seated within the physical body. The body is one day going to perish anyway, whether it is caused by natural disasters, road accidents, or diseases. We just have to understand that permanent nature of ourselves. In Gauri Sukhmani M.5 that's all we can say:-
The One Lord Himself destroys and also preserves (marai rakhai eko aap)
Nothing at all is in the hands of mortal beings (manukh kai kich nahi haath)

Click to expand...

There are various levels that our permanent self Soul, experiences the lessons. Let me remind you, our Father in Heaven provided us with challenging conditions but none of these conditions are too difficult for Soul to go through. We are the children of our Divine Father, so only the father knows what is good for his children. The children may not know why they have to go through these lessons, only the Divine Father knows.

<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr><td>ਰਾਤੀ ਰੁਤੀ ਥਿਤੀ ਵਾਰ ॥
राती रुती थिती वार ॥
Rāṯī ruṯī thiṯī vār.
Nights, days, weeks and seasons;

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਪਵਣ ਪਾਣੀ ਅਗਨੀ ਪਾਤਾਲ ॥
पवण पाणी अगनी पाताल ॥
Pavaṇ pāṇī agnī pāṯāl.
in the midst of gases, liquids, fiery energies and nether regions.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਧਰਤੀ ਥਾਪਿ ਰਖੀ ਧਰਮ ਸਾਲ ॥
तिसु विचि धरती थापि रखी धरम साल ॥
Ŧis vicẖ ḏẖarṯī thāp rakẖī ḏẖaram sāl.
in the midst of these, He established the earth as a home for Dharma.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਸੁ ਵਿਚਿ ਜੀਅ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਕੇ ਰੰਗ ॥
तिसु विचि जीअ जुगति के रंग ॥
Ŧis vicẖ jī▫a jugaṯ ke rang.
Upon it, He placed the various species of beings.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਨ ਕੇ ਨਾਮ ਅਨੇਕ ਅਨੰਤ ॥
तिन के नाम अनेक अनंत ॥
Ŧin ke nām anek ananṯ.
Their names are uncounted and endless.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਰਮੀ ਕਰਮੀ ਹੋਇ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
करमी करमी होइ वीचारु ॥
Karmī karmī ho▫e vīcẖār.
By their deeds and their actions, they shall be judged.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸਚਾ ਆਪਿ ਸਚਾ ਦਰਬਾਰੁ ॥
सचा आपि सचा दरबारु ॥
Sacẖā āp sacẖā ḏarbār.
God Himself is True, and True is His Court.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਿਥੈ ਸੋਹਨਿ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥
तिथै सोहनि पंच परवाणु ॥
Ŧithai sohan pancẖ parvāṇ.
There, in perfect grace and ease, sit the self-elect, the self-realized Saints.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਦਰੀ ਕਰਮਿ ਪਵੈ ਨੀਸਾਣੁ ॥
नदरी करमि पवै नीसाणु ॥
Naḏrī karam pavai nīsāṇ.
They receive the Mark of Grace from the Merciful Lord.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਚ ਪਕਾਈ ਓਥੈ ਪਾਇ ॥
कच पकाई ओथै पाइ ॥
Kacẖ pakā▫ī othai pā▫e.
The ripe and the unripe, shall there be judged.

</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨਾਨਕ ਗਇਆ ਜਾਪੈ ਜਾਇ ॥੩੪॥
नानक गइआ जापै जाइ ॥३४॥
Nānak ga▫i▫ā jāpai jā▫e. ||34||
O Nanak, when you go home, you will see this. ||34||

</td></tr> <tr><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>

Some people take this Karma thing too far...I was just now reading about a NYPD Cop who died of a broken neck when a 28 times repeat offender of domestic violence pushed him over a railing while protecting the abused wife...some one said..oh COPS..they do all sorts of Bad karma..like giving out summons, traffic violations, parking fines and all...this accumalted bad karma then takes its toll !!! In other words this writer beleives a COP shoudl just stand by and do nothing so he accumaltes GOOD KARMA..and that will protect him form such a death..what a load of bull...No wonder every other comment beat the living bullsh.it out of that bad karma in everything guy...

jasbirkaleka said:

Why did "Onkar" not create a more perfect universe, devoid of all these earth-quacks and other such disasters?
The answer that "we cannot understand His leela" does not seem much convincing.
Can any one give a simple answer, without play of words, that a common person can understand.

Click to expand...

May it IS perfect? Just that WE are not, but we have the potential to be perfect i.e. move from the Munmukh stage to the Gurmukh stage.

If we were perfect we would have had the ability to save all those people?

Just a thought.

Randip Singh said:

May it IS perfect? Just that WE are not, but we have the potential to be perfect i.e. move from the Munmukh stage to the Gurmukh stage.

If we were perfect we would have had the ability to save all those people?

Just a thought.

Click to expand...

Randip Singh Ji,
The question still stands---Why all these imperfections, in us and in the universe around us, when the Almighty have easily done much better.yellingmunda

jasbirkaleka said:

Randip Singh Ji,
The question still stands---Why all these imperfections, in us and in the universe around us, when the Almighty have easily done much better.yellingmunda

Click to expand...

Jasbirkaleka ji thanks for your post.

As Sikhism states that we are part of the "Oneness" that prevails in the Universe, we need to take a step back. Sometimes it is worthwhile to take a slightly Hoillistic or "Whole" view. In this context let us review,

• People believing or not believing in God and Science (Sikhism believes in Science) will Hypothesize and along the way confirm,
  • The Island of Japan did not exist as a habitable place way back millions of years ago
  • Nature created it through the enormous force and upheaval the Island of Japan
  • At the start there was no Human Life on the Island of Japan
    • Human Life arrived when it became Inhabitable, thousands and thousands years ago
    • One couple living on the Island of Japan and many more additional started to inhabit Japan
      • At all times people will look around before they start a home to live, so did the Japanese
      • Do we as mortals take risks with the wisdom that we have, of course we do
      • Is God supposed to slap you silly right away at every mistake you make knowing one's eventual mortality, most likely not
        • But a finite probability of potential consequences gets established with parameters like time and environs, etc.
      • If there is big enough mistake and it is not remedied the probability that existed at the beginning will start to take the shape of a likelihood and we end up with events good or bad in consonance with everything that surounds us or we are part of
      • So let us move on to the next point
• Sikhism states that the vastness of "the truth that prevails as one for all cannot be fully quantified or described"
  • Looking for Scientific full description is a sexy mirage in Atheism to prove non existance of beliefs in God or its descriptives
  • even as forgiving and unconstrained Sikhism is no one can satisfy through description, an Atheist, who wants the full story when Sikhism states that we are limited and cannot comprehend and or describe with completeness (the full understanding of God/one truth that prevails everywhere)
• So God (at least as described in Sikhism) does not become bad when there is an earthquake
  • In the formation of Japan (creation) just imagine the volcanoes, the earthquakes, fires and rains over time and over many a millions of years, and so on before it became habitable
    • Then the human Life started to take hold on the Island of Japan
    • Human life started to live in consonance and it grew to present as many million folds from start of one or two

• • • I assume that we all agree that it is a good thing to see Human life existing in Japan!
• So why these horrible incidents like the present quake of 2011
  • Everthing is continuously transforming
    • Be it inanimate or animate or plant life
  • Do we alwyas fully understand this transformation all the time
    • No
      • Humans can't even adequately forecast weather!
        • Example: Possibly sunny with or without cloudy periods and a probability of showers or rain
        • This comes from people of Atheism or God or deities, basically from all in this oneness that binds us all
  • If we don't fully understand the transformations, are there possible impacts in how we live or on our life
    • Of course there is
      • Sometimes we feel good as a result (good side of the seesaw) and sometimes we feel bad (the bad side of the seesaw)
      • 
      • But that isn't Heaven/Hell or Angel-God/Devil
      • It is just natural transformation that we did not fully comprehend and are now surprised!
• So what to do!
  • Recognize
    • At least from Sikhism perspective, such tragic events are part of oneness that is always transforming

    What is perhaps most surprising about the Japan earthquake is how misleading history can be. In the past 300 years, no earthquake nearly that large — nothing larger than magnitude-eight — had struck in the Japan subduction zone. That, in turn, led to assumptions about how large a tsunami might strike the coast. http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/scitech/34860-quake-moves-japan-closer-u-s.html

    Click to expand...

  • Challenge
    • Become better at understanding and improve your understanding of oneness and what transforms around you
  • Actions
    • Re-affirm the oneness with all and everything
    • Recognize the grandness that abounds and how we fit in small ways in it or live in consonance with it
    • There are hurt souls, injured bodies and bereavement for the dead,
      • Re-affirm your oneness with all
      • Provide what you can to ease the pain
    • Learn something for your own self

Sorry it is a little long.

I wanted Randip Singh ji to respond first before I did.peacesign

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: A peaceful video with Shabad from Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. This always helps me remove some agitation in the mind, hope it is enjoyed by others and thus sharing

Awal Allah Noor - Mohinder Singh Bhalla

YouTube - Awal Allah Noor - Mohinder Singh Bhalla.

jasbirkaleka said:

Randip Singh Ji,
The question still stands---Why all these imperfections, in us and in the universe around us, when the Almighty have easily done much better.

Click to expand...

No the question does not stand.

Why do you blame Onkar when the fault is within? He's given us the tools, its up to us to use them.

As I have said the Earth is perfect infact scientists say it is a finely balanced machine, as is the Universe. Also the human has the potential to be perfect.

So in the case of the Earth it IS perfect.

Techtonic plates shift, and lava flows to form more land masses. too much land mass + too little water = unbalanced ecosystem.

We as humans must strive to be perfect so that we can live perfectly in this system.

This answer can only be discovered within. It is not something to preach to victims of disaster and misfortune. It is not something that can be imposed as the truth on victims of a catastrophe. Some in Japan may already see this. Then others may not. Their grief and their days of desperation should be honored and they should be cared for, because He honors and cares. The message is heard one person at a time. It is not about fate, luck, karma, or a wicked god.


ਸਲੋਕ ਮਃ ੧ ॥
Salok Ma 1 ||
Shalok, First Mehl:ll

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਨਾਦ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਵੇਦ ॥
Visamaadh Naadh Visamaadh Vaedh ||
Wonderful is the sound current of the Naad, wonderful is the knowledge of the Vedas.

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਜੀਅ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਭੇਦ ॥
Visamaadh Jeea Visamaadh Bhaedh ||
Wonderful are the beings, wonderful are the species.

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਰੂਪ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਰੰਗ ॥
Visamaadh Roop Visamaadh Rang ||
Wonderful are the forms, wonderful are the colors.

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਨਾਗੇ ਫਿਰਹਿ ਜੰਤ ॥
Visamaadh Naagae Firehi Janth ||
Wonderful are the beings who wander around naked.

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਪਉਣੁ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਪਾਣੀ ॥
Visamaadh Poun Visamaadh Paanee ||
Wonderful is the wind, wonderful is the water.

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਅਗਨੀ ਖੇਡਹਿ ਵਿਡਾਣੀ ॥
Visamaadh Aganee Khaeddehi Viddaanee ||
Wonderful is fire, which works wonders.

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਧਰਤੀ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਖਾਣੀ ॥
Visamaadh Dhharathee Visamaadh Khaanee
Wonderful is the earth, wonderful the sources of creation.

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਸਾਦਿ ਲਗਹਿ ਪਰਾਣੀ ॥
Visamaadh Saadh Lagehi Paraanee ||
Wonderful are the tastes to which mortals are attached.

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਸੰਜੋਗੁ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਵਿਜੋਗੁ ॥
Visamaadh Sanjog Visamaadh Vijog ||
Wonderful is union, and wonderful is separation.

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਭੁਖ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਭੋਗੁ ॥
Visamaadh Bhukh Visamaadh Bhog ||
Wonderful is hunger, wonderful is satisfaction.

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਸਿਫਤਿ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਸਾਲਾਹ ॥
Visamaadh Sifath Visamaadh Saalaah ||
Wonderful is His Praise, wonderful is His adoration.

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਉਝੜ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਰਾਹ ॥
Visamaadh Oujharr Visamaadh Raah ||
Wonderful is the wilderness, wonderful is the path.

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਨੇੜੈ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਦੂਰਿ ॥
Visamaadh Naerrai Visamaadh Dhoor ||
Wonderful is closeness, wonderful is distance.

ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ਦੇਖੈ ਹਾਜਰਾ ਹਜੂਰਿ ॥
Visamaadh Dhaekhai Haajaraa Hajoor ||
How wonderful to behold the Lord, ever-present here.

ਵੇਖਿ ਵਿਡਾਣੁ ਰਹਿਆ ਵਿਸਮਾਦੁ ॥
Vaekh Viddaan Rehiaa Visamaadh ||
Beholding His wonders, I am wonder-struck

ਨਾਨਕ ਬੁਝਣੁ ਪੂਰੈ ਭਾਗਿ ॥੧॥
Naanak Bujhan Poorai Bhaag ||1||
O Nanak, those who understand this are blessed with perfect destiny. ||1||

spnadmin ji thanks.

I have thoughts on a separate thread(s) without Japan 2011 reference. I believe there are few things that have come out in the discussion here to spawn other secondary philosophical discourse. Some ideas below,

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If God/Nature/Ultimate One truth that Exists Everywhere is Perfect: Why people die of Heart Attacks!

Does Soul survive Birth and Death! OR It Just Transforms from Many-to-One and One-to-Many!

If God/Nature/Ultimate One truth that Exists Everywhere is Perfect, why does it not Stop: Infant Deaths, Wars, Man made Misery


The thread titles are to invoke thoughts, retrospection and introspection.

Click to expand...

I was wondering also if yourself or Aman Singh ji can start a Sikh Cyber Prayer (SCP @ SPN) for "Japan 2011" which we can sign on to and show our participation here at SPN and allow also for guests to do so from around the globe?

Thank you.

Sat Sri Akal.

Ambarsaria ji

I will copy your ideas over to the forum Mentors section where mods and mentors can discuss this. The second idea, Sikh Cyber Prayer SCP at SPN, needs a closer look -- not because of any personal concerns on my part. Only because there are contrary sentiments in the panth about Sikhi and prayer: what should we pray for, how should we pray, should we ask Akaal for anything in prayer, and whether prayer is substantially different from being consciousness of Naam with every breath and every action. It can get complicated.

The worst thing would be to have a bitter debate on a thread intended for supplication and support. I don't want to start this until we are clear about this issue. The other two themes should pose no problem.

spnadmin said:

Ambarsaria ji

I will copy your ideas over to the forum Mentors section where mods and mentors can discuss this. The second idea, Sikh Cyber Prayer SCP at SPN, needs a closer look -- not because of any personal concerns on my part. Only because there are contrary sentiments in the panth about Sikhi and prayer: what should we pray for, how should we pray, should we ask Akaal for anything in prayer, and whether prayer is substantially different from being consciousness of Naam with every breath and every action. It can get complicated.

The worst thing would be to have a bitter debate on a thread intended for supplication and support. I don't want to start this until we are clear about this issue. The other two themes should pose no problem.

Click to expand...

Sorry I forgot about the controversies and the nature of praying. I agree it might become disruptive. I also usually pray silently when I bow my head in front of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji and it is usually a dialog with my own inner self.

Maybe a suggestions on people to post Shabad, Sufi, or other like Videos as a videos only thread that kind of becomes a positive exercise without disruptive comments. I can start a thread her in Interfaith.

Again I am a little simple and straight in some ideas but I know not all is not a straight line in dialog or discourse and many times it weaves like a river.

Thanks.

Sat Sri Akal.

Yes. ah Yes....we must be prepared for a diverse response. Leaders/mentors will chat and then we will know. Thanks, and do go ahead with the thread of inspirational video.