Concept Of Reincarnation
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REINCARNATION-A REVIEW
ABSTRACT
ABSTRACT
ਬਹੁਤ ਜਨਮ ਬਿਛੁਰੇ ਥੇ ਮਾਧਉ ਇਹੁ ਜਨਮੁ ਤੁਮ੍ਹ੍ਹਾਰੇ ਲੇਖੇ ॥ਕਹਿ ਰਵਿਦਾਸ ਆਸ ਲਗਿ ਜੀਵਉ ਚਿਰ ਭਇਓ ਦਰਸਨੁ ਦੇਖੇ ॥
Bahuṯ janam bicẖẖurė thė māḏẖa*o ih janam ṯumĥārė lėkẖė, Kahi Raviḏās ās lag jīva*o cẖir bẖa*i*o ḏarsan ḏėkẖė.
For so many incarnations, I have been separated from You, God; I dedicate this life to You. Says Ravidas: placing my hopes in You, I live; it is so long since I have gazed upon the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan.-----Ravidas, Raag Dhanasari, AGGS, Page, 694
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Please read the full article at the following lin.
www.sikhphilosophy.net/spiritual.../24446-reincarnation-a-review.html -
Thank you for the reply.
Also, if there is anyone that can elaborate on re-incarnation...not necessarily in an academic sense...but more spiritual. Are there any other instances in SGGS or in sikh history where it is mentioned? I know that Hemkunt Sahib is where Guru Gobind Singh Ji spent their previous life...are there other instances?
Also, if there is anyone that can elaborate on re-incarnation...not necessarily in an academic sense...but more spiritual. Are there any other instances in SGGS or in sikh history where it is mentioned? I know that Hemkunt Sahib is where Guru Gobind Singh Ji spent their previous life...are there other instances?
navneep ji
Although there are many who believe that Dasam Pita lived in Hemkunt in a previous life, there are also many who believe that the source of this information, Bachittar Natak, was written to deliberately foist a Brahaminist identity on Sikhi at a time when Sikhs and the Sikh identity were extremely vulnerable politically, socially, economically.
If you accept the story of Hemkunt, then you would also accept the notion that Luv and Kush, twin sons born of the Hindu goddess Sita, began the lineage of Bedi and Sodhi. In other words Guru Nanak a Bedi descended from Luv and Guru Gobind Singh from Kush. Are you comfortable with that theory?
Although there are many who believe that Dasam Pita lived in Hemkunt in a previous life, there are also many who believe that the source of this information, Bachittar Natak, was written to deliberately foist a Brahaminist identity on Sikhi at a time when Sikhs and the Sikh identity were extremely vulnerable politically, socially, economically.
If you accept the story of Hemkunt, then you would also accept the notion that Luv and Kush, twin sons born of the Hindu goddess Sita, began the lineage of Bedi and Sodhi. In other words Guru Nanak a Bedi descended from Luv and Guru Gobind Singh from Kush. Are you comfortable with that theory?
BhagatSingh
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Not only must you accept the mythologies that entail that story but you must also accept that embryology as we know it is false, and the fact that one's brain develops from a single cell (which means it cannot have memory to begin with) is also false.
...actually, im not really sure...thats why i posted this in "new to sikhism", because I don't know much about the politics surrounding these issues. im just wondering about the concept of going through so many other lives to get to become human...
i just used hemkunt sahib as an example because I heard about it. im not at all familiar with the historical attempts to fabricate differnt identities...
Where does Sikhism stand on re-incarnation (of becoming human and the weight of deeds from previous lives etc., and the consequence of what you do with this one)? please include excerpts from the SGGS. Thanks.
i just used hemkunt sahib as an example because I heard about it. im not at all familiar with the historical attempts to fabricate differnt identities...
Where does Sikhism stand on re-incarnation (of becoming human and the weight of deeds from previous lives etc., and the consequence of what you do with this one)? please include excerpts from the SGGS. Thanks.
BhagatSingh
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Narayanjot Kaur ji,
"Assuming" Guru Gobind Singh ji was born like every other man/woman, he should have only started to develop memory when he was a baby. Even the memories you have as a baby are erased by the age of 5 since you're brain is very plastic meaning its still changing and developing rapidly.
In a nutshell, memory is the result of the complex networks that are formed (strengthened) by the neurons (brain cells) as a result of some stimulation. When the egg is fertilized in the mother, it's just one cell that hasn't even specialized yet. At this point no brain cells exist, and hence no networks for storing info. So what are you going to have memories of, when the cells that store, retain (and recall) memories for you aren't there?
"Assuming" Guru Gobind Singh ji was born like every other man/woman, he should have only started to develop memory when he was a baby. Even the memories you have as a baby are erased by the age of 5 since you're brain is very plastic meaning its still changing and developing rapidly.
Navdeep ji
Where Sikhs stand on the issue of reincarnation is not a question that is easy to answer. There are some radically different points of view. I don't want to grandstand on that question. There are forum members who can give some very brilliant responses and they will come from every side of the question.
So let them speak away.
I do however want to say that one can believe in reincarnation, and yet still find the story told of Hemkunt to be difficult to believe. And I would go further and say that belief in reincarnation does not automatically lead a person to accept the mythology contained in Bachittar Natak.
I adhere to a belief in reincarnation, but do not believe one word in Bachittar Natak. And I am not alone.
Where Sikhs stand on the issue of reincarnation is not a question that is easy to answer. There are some radically different points of view. I don't want to grandstand on that question. There are forum members who can give some very brilliant responses and they will come from every side of the question.
So let them speak away.
I do however want to say that one can believe in reincarnation, and yet still find the story told of Hemkunt to be difficult to believe. And I would go further and say that belief in reincarnation does not automatically lead a person to accept the mythology contained in Bachittar Natak.
I adhere to a belief in reincarnation, but do not believe one word in Bachittar Natak. And I am not alone.
Taken from fools who wrangle over flesh.
Life goes through many incarnations (up to 84 million) before becoming human. In other words, life takes the form of incarnation in plant form, then animal, and then human. The idea being that animal form spiritually is closer to man. Biologically this maybe true, however, spiritually within Sikhism, this could not be further from the truth.
On page 176 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, the following is written:
ga-orhee gu-aarayree mehlaa 5.
Gauree Gwaarayree, Fifth Mehl:
ka-ee janam bha-ay keet patangaa.
In so many incarnations, you were a worm and an insect;
ka-ee janam gaj meen kurangaa.
in so many incarnations, you were an elephant, a fish and a deer.
ka-ee janam pankhee sarap ho-i-o.
In so many incarnations, you were a bird and a snake.
ka-ee janam haivar barikh jo-i-o. ||1||
In so many incarnations, you were yoked as an ox and a horse. ||1||
mil jagdees milan kee baree-aa.
Meet the Lord of the Universe - now is the time to meet Him.
chirankaal ih dayh sanjaree-aa. ||1|| rahaa-o.
After so very long, this human body was fashioned for you. ||1||Pause||
ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;
ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;
ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;
lakh cha-oraaseeh jon bharmaa-i-aa. ||2||
you wandered through 8.4 million incarnations. ||2||
saaDhsang bha-i-o janam paraapat.
Through the Saadh Sangat, the Company of the Holy, you obtained this human life.
kar sayvaa bhaj har har gurmat.
Do seva - selfless service; follow the Guru's Teachings, and vibrate the Lord's Name, Har, Har.
ti-aag maan jhooth abhimaan.
Abandon pride, falsehood and arrogance.
jeevat mareh dargeh parvaan. ||3||
Remain dead while yet alive, and you shall be welcomed in the Court of the Lord. ||3||
jo kichh ho-aa so tujh tay hog.
Whatever has been, and whatever shall be, comes from You, Lord.
avar na doojaa karnai jog.
No one else can do anything at all.
taa milee-ai jaa laihi milaa-ay.
We are united with You, when You unite us with Yourself.
kaho naanak har har gun gaa-ay. ||4||3||72||
Says Nanak, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, Har, Har. ||4||3||72||
Reading this Ang one can clearly see that the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji does not attach any particular order to how life is incarnated. In fact it states:
ka-ee janam sail gir kari-aa.
In so many incarnations, you were rocks and mountains;
ka-ee janam garabh hir khari-aa.
in so many incarnations, you were aborted in the womb;
ka-ee janam saakh kar upaa-i-aa.
in so many incarnations, you developed branches and leaves;
If you were to apply the logic of those that claim spiritually animal life is closer to human, then according to this a rock then becomes an aborted human foetus, then becomes a plant! It is only after this one becomes human. Surely then a plant is a closer form of life to human?
The Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji only proclaims one life form as being so precious. On page 50 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji it states:
sireeraag mehlaa 5 ghar 2.
Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl, Second House:
go-il aa-i-aa go-ilee ki-aa tis damf pasaar.
The herdsman comes to the pasture lands-what good are his ostentatious displays here?
muhlat punnee chalnaa tooN sampal ghar baar. ||1||
When your allotted time is up, you must go. Take care of your real hearth and home. ||1||
har gun gaa-o manaa satgur sayv pi-aar.
O mind, sing the Glorious Praises of the Lord, and serve the True Guru with love.
ki-aa thorh-rhee baat gumaan. ||1|| rahaa-o.
Why do you take pride in trivial matters? ||1||Pause||
jaisay rain paraahunay uth chalsahi parbhaat.
Like an overnight guest, you shall arise and depart in the morning.
ki-aa tooN rataa girsat si-o sabh fulaa kee baagaat. ||2||
Why are you so attached to your household? It is all like flowers in the garden. ||2||
mayree mayree ki-aa karahi jin dee-aa so parabh lorh.
Why do you say, "Mine, mine?" Look to God, who has given it to you.
sarpar uthee chalnaa chhad jaasee lakh karorh. ||3||
It is certain that you must arise and depart, and leave behind your hundreds of thousands and millions. ||3||
lakh cha-oraaseeh bharmati-aa dulabh janam paa-i-o-ay.
Through 8.4 million incarnations you have wandered, to obtain this rare and precious human life.
naanak naam samaal tooN so din nayrhaa aa-i-o-ay. ||4||22||92||
O Nanak, remember the Naam, the Name of the Lord; the day of departure is drawing near! ||4||22||92||
So clearly, the Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji sees plants, animals, and minerals, on one level in terms of life, and then human form on another. To take the life of a plant is the same as an animal in terms of spirituality. The following Ang although a metaphor for how people who speak the truth are treated clearly shows the mind of the Guru’s when seeing life in all its form, be it plant, mineral or animal:
Page 143 of the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
mehlaa 1.
First Mehl:
vaykh je mithaa kati-aa kat kut baDhaa paa-ay.
Look, and see how the sugar-cane is cut down. After cutting away its branches, its feet are bound together into bundles,
khundhaa andar rakh kai dayn so mal sajaa-ay.
and then, it is placed between the wooden rollers and crushed.
ras kas tatar paa-ee-ai tapai tai villaa-ay.
What punishment is inflicted upon it! Its juice is extracted and placed in the cauldron; as it is heated, it groans and cries out.
bhee so fog samaalee-ai dichai ag jaalaa-ay.
And then, the crushed cane is collected and burnt in the fire below.
naanak mithai patree-ai vaykhhu lokaa aa-ay. ||2||
Nanak: come, people, and see how the sweet sugar-cane is treated! ||2||
BhagatSingh
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Randip Singh ji, perhaps, incarnating to rocks, soil, etc just means decomposition. That's not true reincarnation.
Is there anything that would show that Guru Sahibs are talking about reincarnation, recycling of souls, and not simply physical recycling of chemicals that form life and non-life?
Is there anything that would show that Guru Sahibs are talking about reincarnation, recycling of souls, and not simply physical recycling of chemicals that form life and non-life?
It is very likely that Guruji has used the concept of reincarnation as a metaphor to explain to the people the value of Human life. Whatever it may be, it absolutely clear that in SGGS that that human life is priceless and is a great opportunity to cleanse the soul through Simran and attain absolute purity so as to merge with the infinite Ek Onkar. Now if one is not able to achieve it in this life and requires another vehicle for it, then so be it!
It could be, but note also in physics, matter cannot be create or destroyed, it just changes form. This could be construed as reincarnation. If applied to your example that decomposed material will one day form to make a human.
Good point!
In so far as Bachittar Natak is concerned, it definitely is not a historic document. It is just a great piece of poetry and should just treated as such whoever might be its author. None of the great epics of the world have anything whatsoever to do with with reality but they do reflect and have helped to evolve great civilisations of the world.
So lets just leave it at that. And moreover its unlikely that great works of art can be produced with a diabolical intent.
So lets just leave it at that. And moreover its unlikely that great works of art can be produced with a diabolical intent.
harbhansj ji
Why should we "leave it at that?" Why not diabolical intent? Diabolical forces were considered part of the dynamics of the natural world then and still are today in some religious systems. Why metaphor? The idea of a metaphor is to explain concepts by using images in order to get a deeper level of meaning. Are you certain that the author of Bachittar Natak did not expect to be taken very seriously, and in a literal way. What is the deeper level of meaning?
If one accepts the notion that the Bedi's and Sodhi's are descended from Luv and Kush, the one has to continue with the line of story-telling in Bachittar Natak that sex with a horse and the sacrificial offering of horses contributed to the fertility of the Bedi and Sodhi line?
Narayanjot ji,
I had used the word "metaphor" only to explain reincarnation as referred in SGGS. And I certainly cannot answer the questions raised by you regarding deeper meaning of Bachittar Natak.
But we must accept that even if we reject and dump Bachittar Natak, it will not just go away. Many Sikhs will continue to accept it and it will be considered as a great poetry whoever might have been its author.
harbhansj ji
The Sikh Missionary College in Ludhiana has written extensively that the Hindu imagery in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj should not be understood as "metaphors." Rather these are direct references, initially by Guru Nanak on his many travels, to people whom he observed conducting rituals to various Vedic gods and goddesses. When an entire Shabad is analyzed it is clear that he is addressing them directly and telling them that in spite of their worship and practice the only way to be liberated is through the Shabad Guru, attaching oneself to the Satguru. Later others of our Gurus adopted his images and continued his philosophy.
The idea that these various devta images are metaphors is wrong. For example,
Guru Nanak on Ang 1040/41 talks about the worship of Jagannatth, who is understood to be another name of narayan. his consort was Mahalaxmi. One line in the shabad seems to equate Jagannatth with The Lord of the universe, Akaal or Waheguru.
ਚੀਨਹੁ ਆਪੁ ਜਪਹੁ ਜਗਦੀਸਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਗੰਨਾਥੁ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਇਆ ॥੧੩॥
cheenahu aap japahu jagadheesar har jagannaathh man bhaaeiaa ||13||
Know yourself, and meditate on the Lord of the Universe; let your mind be pleased with the Lord, the Master of the Universe. ||13||
But Guru Nanak was inspired to say these words when he was literally preaching in Orissa. Knowing this and reading the entire shabad, it is clear that Guru Nanak is really rejecting the worship of Jagannath and saying assimilate this devotion into to something higher -- the true Guru who emancipates.
The reference to Jagannath, or to Rama in earlier lines, are not metaphors for the true Guru.
The lines that follow.
ਜੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡਿ ਖੰਡਿ ਸੋ ਜਾਣਹੁ ॥
jo brehamandd khandd so jaanahu ||
Know the One who pervades all the realms of the universe.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਪਛਾਣਹੁ ॥
guramukh boojhahu sabadh pashhaanahu ||
As Gurmukh, understand and realize the Shabad.
ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਭੋਗੇ ਭੋਗਣਹਾਰਾ ਰਹੈ ਅਤੀਤੁ ਸਬਾਇਆ ॥੧੪॥
ghatt ghatt bhogae bhoganehaaraa rehai atheeth sabaaeiaa ||14||
The Enjoyer enjoys each and every heart, and yet He remains detached from all. ||14||
ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਬੋਲਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਸੁ ਸੂਚਾ ॥
guramath bolahu har jas soochaa ||
Through the Guru's Teachings, chant the Pure Praises of the Lord.
ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਆਖੀ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਊਚਾ ॥
guramath aakhee dhaekhahu oochaa ||
Through the Guru's Teachings, behold the lofty Lord with your eyes.
ਸ੍ਰਵਣੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਣੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਰੰਗਾਇਆ ॥੧੫॥੩॥੨੦॥
sravanee naam sunai har baanee naanak har rang rangaaeiaa ||15||3||20||
Whoever listens to the Lord's Name, and the Word of His Bani, O Nanak, is imbued with the color of the Lord's Love. ||15||3||20||
This is an important ine because it stresses the core of Guru Nanak's message. Whoever does not accept the teachings of Shabad Guru, and does not dwell upon the Lords' Name, is bound and bagged, and dragged into the City of Death.
ਜਿਸੁ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਤਿ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਸੋ ਜਮ ਪੁਰਿ ਬੰਧਿ ਚਲਾਇਆ ॥੮॥
jis raam naam naahee math guramath so jam pur bandhh chalaaeiaa ||8||
Whoever does not accept the Guru's Teachings, and does not dwell upon the Lord's Name, is bound and bagged, and dragged into the City of Death. ||8||
The Sikh Missionary College in Ludhiana has written extensively that the Hindu imagery in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj should not be understood as "metaphors." Rather these are direct references, initially by Guru Nanak on his many travels, to people whom he observed conducting rituals to various Vedic gods and goddesses. When an entire Shabad is analyzed it is clear that he is addressing them directly and telling them that in spite of their worship and practice the only way to be liberated is through the Shabad Guru, attaching oneself to the Satguru. Later others of our Gurus adopted his images and continued his philosophy.
The idea that these various devta images are metaphors is wrong. For example,
Guru Nanak on Ang 1040/41 talks about the worship of Jagannatth, who is understood to be another name of narayan. his consort was Mahalaxmi. One line in the shabad seems to equate Jagannatth with The Lord of the universe, Akaal or Waheguru.
ਚੀਨਹੁ ਆਪੁ ਜਪਹੁ ਜਗਦੀਸਰੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਗੰਨਾਥੁ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਇਆ ॥੧੩॥
cheenahu aap japahu jagadheesar har jagannaathh man bhaaeiaa ||13||
Know yourself, and meditate on the Lord of the Universe; let your mind be pleased with the Lord, the Master of the Universe. ||13||
But Guru Nanak was inspired to say these words when he was literally preaching in Orissa. Knowing this and reading the entire shabad, it is clear that Guru Nanak is really rejecting the worship of Jagannath and saying assimilate this devotion into to something higher -- the true Guru who emancipates.
The reference to Jagannath, or to Rama in earlier lines, are not metaphors for the true Guru.
The lines that follow.
ਜੋ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੰਡਿ ਖੰਡਿ ਸੋ ਜਾਣਹੁ ॥
jo brehamandd khandd so jaanahu ||
Know the One who pervades all the realms of the universe.
ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੂਝਹੁ ਸਬਦਿ ਪਛਾਣਹੁ ॥
guramukh boojhahu sabadh pashhaanahu ||
As Gurmukh, understand and realize the Shabad.
ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਭੋਗੇ ਭੋਗਣਹਾਰਾ ਰਹੈ ਅਤੀਤੁ ਸਬਾਇਆ ॥੧੪॥
ghatt ghatt bhogae bhoganehaaraa rehai atheeth sabaaeiaa ||14||
The Enjoyer enjoys each and every heart, and yet He remains detached from all. ||14||
ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਬੋਲਹੁ ਹਰਿ ਜਸੁ ਸੂਚਾ ॥
guramath bolahu har jas soochaa ||
Through the Guru's Teachings, chant the Pure Praises of the Lord.
ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਆਖੀ ਦੇਖਹੁ ਊਚਾ ॥
guramath aakhee dhaekhahu oochaa ||
Through the Guru's Teachings, behold the lofty Lord with your eyes.
ਸ੍ਰਵਣੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਸੁਣੈ ਹਰਿ ਬਾਣੀ ਨਾਨਕ ਹਰਿ ਰੰਗਿ ਰੰਗਾਇਆ ॥੧੫॥੩॥੨੦॥
sravanee naam sunai har baanee naanak har rang rangaaeiaa ||15||3||20||
Whoever listens to the Lord's Name, and the Word of His Bani, O Nanak, is imbued with the color of the Lord's Love. ||15||3||20||
This is an important ine because it stresses the core of Guru Nanak's message. Whoever does not accept the teachings of Shabad Guru, and does not dwell upon the Lords' Name, is bound and bagged, and dragged into the City of Death.
ਜਿਸੁ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਾਹੀ ਮਤਿ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਸੋ ਜਮ ਪੁਰਿ ਬੰਧਿ ਚਲਾਇਆ ॥੮॥
jis raam naam naahee math guramath so jam pur bandhh chalaaeiaa ||8||
Whoever does not accept the Guru's Teachings, and does not dwell upon the Lord's Name, is bound and bagged, and dragged into the City of Death. ||8||
Dear All,
There are some other references in the AGGS where it clearly says that no one knows about the past or future; Guru Nanak, ponders in Raag Malar on the next life, AGGS, Page, 1289-6:
ਕਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਆਇਆ ਕਹਾਂ ਏਹੁ ਜਾਣੁ ॥ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਤ ਰਹੈ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥ਹੁਕਮੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਤਤੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥ ਇਹੁ ਪਰਸਾਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੇ ਜਾਣੈ ॥
Kahāʼn ṯė ā­i­ā kahāʼn ėhu jāṇ.Jīvaṯ maraṯ rahai parvāṇ.Hukmai būjẖai ṯaṯ pacẖẖāṇai.Ih parsāḏ gurū ṯė jāṇai.
Where has he come from, and where will he go? Remaining dead while yet alive is accepted and approved. Whoever understands the Akal Purkh's Command, realizes the essence of reality, only known by Guru's Grace.
Guru Nanak ponders in Ragas Gauri & Sarang:
ਜਾਤੋ ਜਾਇ ਕਹਾ ਤੇ ਆਵੈ ॥ ਕਹ ਉਪਜੈ ਕਹ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਕਿਉ ਬਾਧਿਓ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਕਤੀ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਕਿਉ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥
Jāṯo jā­ė kahā ṯė āvai.Kah upjai kah jā­ė samāvai.Ki­o bāḏẖi­o ki­o mukṯī pāvai.
Ki­o abẖināsī sahj samāvai.
How can we know where we came from? Where did we originate, and where will we go and merge? How are we bound, and how do we obtain liberation? How do we merge with intuitive ease into the Eternal, Akal Purkh? -----Guru Nanak, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 152-15
ਕੇਤਿਆ ਕੇ ਬਾਪ ਕੇਤਿਆ ਕੇ ਬੇਟੇ ਕੇਤੇ ਗੁਰ ਚੇਲੇ ਹੂਏ ॥ ਆਗੈ ਪਾਛੈ ਗਣਤ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਕਿਆ ਜਾਤੀ ਕਿਆ ਹੁਣਿ ਹੂਏ ॥
Keṯi▫ā ke bāp keṯi▫ā ke bete keṯe gur cẖele hū▫e.Āgai pācẖẖai gaṇaṯ na āvai ki­ā jāṯī ki­ā huṇ hū­ė.
They become the fathers of many, and the sons of many; they become the gurus of many, and the disciples. No account can be made of the future or the past; who knows what shall be, or what was? -----Guru Nanak, Raag Sarang Ki Vaar, AGGS, Page, 1238-14
Kabir in Raag Gond on Soul, AGGS, Page, 870;
ਮੋਹਿ ਬੈਰਾਗੁ ਭਇਓ ॥ ਇਹੁ ਜੀਉ ਆਇ ਕਹਾ ਗਇਓ॥ਪੰਚ ਤਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਾਇਆ ਕੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਤਤੁ ਕਹਾ ਤੇ ਕੀਨੁ ਰੇ ॥ਕਰਮ ਬਧ ਤੁਮ ਜੀਉ ਕਹਤ ਹੌ ਕਰਮਹਿ ਕਿਨਿ ਜੀਉ ਦੀਨੁ ਰੇ ॥
Mohi bairāg bẖa▫i▫o. Ih jī▫o ā▫e kahā ga▫i▫o. Pancẖ ṯaṯ mil kā▫i▫ā kīnĥī ṯaṯ kahā ṯe kīn re. Karam baḏẖ ṯum jī▫o kahaṯ hou karmėh kin jī▫o ḏīn re.
I have become sad, wondering where the soul comes from, and where it goes. The body is formed from the union of the five elements; but where were the five elements created? You say that the soul is tied to its karma, but who gave karma to the body?
Guru Nanak Answers in Raag Gauri:
ਸਹਜੇ ਆਵੈ ਸਹਜੇ ਜਾਇ॥ ਮਨ ਤੇ ਉਪਜੈ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੁਕਤੋ ਬੰਧੁ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ਛੁਟੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਇ ॥
Sehjė āvai sehjė jā­ė.Man ṯė upjai man māhi samā­ė.Gurmukẖ mukṯo banḏẖ na pā­ė.Sabaḏ bīcẖār cẖẖutai har nā­ė.
With intuitive ease, we come, and with intuitive ease, we depart. From the mind, we originate, and into the mind, we are absorbed. As Guru willed, we are liberated, and are not bound. Contemplating the Word of the Sabd, we are emancipated through the Name of the Akal Purkh.
ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਮਰਣੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੂਏ ਕਿਉ ਪੂਰਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
Sabaḏ marai fir maraṇ na ho­ė. Bin mū­ė ki­o pūrā ho­ė.
One, who dies in the Word of the Sabd, shall never again have to die. Without such a death, how can one attain perfection? -----Guru Nanak Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 152 & 153
Finally Guru Nanak leaves it up to God in Raag Gauri:
ਕਿਰਤੁ ਪਇਆ ਨਹ ਮੇਟੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ਕਿਆ ਜਾਣਾ ਕਿਆ ਆਗੈ ਹੋਇ ॥ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਣਾ ਸੋਈ ਹੂਆ ॥ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕਰਣੈ ਵਾਲਾ ਦੂਆ ॥ਨਾ ਜਾਣਾ ਕਰਮ ਕੇਵਡ ਤੇਰੀ ਦਾਤਿ ॥ਕਰਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ॥
Kiraṯ pa­i­ā nah mėtai ko­ė.Ki­ā jāṇā ki­ā āgai ho­ė.Jo ṯis bẖāṇā so­ī hū­ā.Avar na karṇai vālā ḏū­ā. Nā jāṇā karam kėvad ṯėrī ḏāṯ.Karam ḏẖaram ṯėrė nām kī jāṯ.
Past actions cannot be erased. What do we know of what will happen hereafter? Whatever pleases the Akal Purkh shall happen. There is no other Doer. I do not know about karma, or how great Your gifts are. The karma of actions, the righteousness, social class and status, are contained within Your Name.-----Guru Nanak, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 154-1 & 2
ਹਮ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਨਹ ਆਗੈ ਜਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਖੈ ਤਿਉ ਠਾਢੇ ॥ ਹਮ ਭੂਲ ਚੂਕ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰਹੁ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੁਤਰੇ ਕਾਢੇ ॥
Ham jāni­ā kacẖẖū na jānah āgai ji­o har rākẖai ṯi­o ṯẖādẖė. Ham bẖūl cẖūk gur kirpā ḏẖārahu jan Nānak kuṯrė kādẖė.
I know nothing, and I do not know the future; as the Akal Purkh keeps me, so do I stand. For my failings and mistakes, O Guru, grant me Your Grace; servant Nanak is Your obedient dog.-----Guru Ram Das, Raag Gauri Poorbi, AGGS, Page, 171-5
Guru Arjan in Raag Maru ponders on the subject;
ਆਗਾਹਾ ਕੂ ਤ੍ਰਾਘਿ ਪਿਛਾ ਫੇਰਿ ਨ ਮੁਹਡੜਾ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਿਝਿ ਇਵੇਹਾ ਵਾਰ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਹੋਵੀ ਜਨਮੜਾ ॥
Āgāhā kū ṯarāgẖ picẖẖā fėr na muhadṛā. Nānak sijẖ ivėhā vār bahuṛ na hovī janamṛā.
Look ahead; don't look back over your shoulders to the past. O Nanak, be successful this time, as there is no birth again.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Maru-Dakhnay, AGGS, Page, 1096-12
A plea is made to make up your own mind about reincarnation as it can not be resolved in a debate.
Cordially,
Virinder
There are some other references in the AGGS where it clearly says that no one knows about the past or future; Guru Nanak, ponders in Raag Malar on the next life, AGGS, Page, 1289-6:
ਕਹਾਂ ਤੇ ਆਇਆ ਕਹਾਂ ਏਹੁ ਜਾਣੁ ॥ਜੀਵਤ ਮਰਤ ਰਹੈ ਪਰਵਾਣੁ ॥ਹੁਕਮੈ ਬੂਝੈ ਤਤੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ॥ ਇਹੁ ਪਰਸਾਦੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਤੇ ਜਾਣੈ ॥
Kahāʼn ṯė ā­i­ā kahāʼn ėhu jāṇ.Jīvaṯ maraṯ rahai parvāṇ.Hukmai būjẖai ṯaṯ pacẖẖāṇai.Ih parsāḏ gurū ṯė jāṇai.
Where has he come from, and where will he go? Remaining dead while yet alive is accepted and approved. Whoever understands the Akal Purkh's Command, realizes the essence of reality, only known by Guru's Grace.
Guru Nanak ponders in Ragas Gauri & Sarang:
ਜਾਤੋ ਜਾਇ ਕਹਾ ਤੇ ਆਵੈ ॥ ਕਹ ਉਪਜੈ ਕਹ ਜਾਇ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥ ਕਿਉ ਬਾਧਿਓ ਕਿਉ ਮੁਕਤੀ ਪਾਵੈ ॥ ਕਿਉ ਅਬਿਨਾਸੀ ਸਹਜਿ ਸਮਾਵੈ ॥
Jāṯo jā­ė kahā ṯė āvai.Kah upjai kah jā­ė samāvai.Ki­o bāḏẖi­o ki­o mukṯī pāvai.
Ki­o abẖināsī sahj samāvai.
How can we know where we came from? Where did we originate, and where will we go and merge? How are we bound, and how do we obtain liberation? How do we merge with intuitive ease into the Eternal, Akal Purkh? -----Guru Nanak, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 152-15
ਕੇਤਿਆ ਕੇ ਬਾਪ ਕੇਤਿਆ ਕੇ ਬੇਟੇ ਕੇਤੇ ਗੁਰ ਚੇਲੇ ਹੂਏ ॥ ਆਗੈ ਪਾਛੈ ਗਣਤ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਕਿਆ ਜਾਤੀ ਕਿਆ ਹੁਣਿ ਹੂਏ ॥
Keṯi▫ā ke bāp keṯi▫ā ke bete keṯe gur cẖele hū▫e.Āgai pācẖẖai gaṇaṯ na āvai ki­ā jāṯī ki­ā huṇ hū­ė.
They become the fathers of many, and the sons of many; they become the gurus of many, and the disciples. No account can be made of the future or the past; who knows what shall be, or what was? -----Guru Nanak, Raag Sarang Ki Vaar, AGGS, Page, 1238-14
Kabir in Raag Gond on Soul, AGGS, Page, 870;
ਮੋਹਿ ਬੈਰਾਗੁ ਭਇਓ ॥ ਇਹੁ ਜੀਉ ਆਇ ਕਹਾ ਗਇਓ॥ਪੰਚ ਤਤੁ ਮਿਲਿ ਕਾਇਆ ਕੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹੀ ਤਤੁ ਕਹਾ ਤੇ ਕੀਨੁ ਰੇ ॥ਕਰਮ ਬਧ ਤੁਮ ਜੀਉ ਕਹਤ ਹੌ ਕਰਮਹਿ ਕਿਨਿ ਜੀਉ ਦੀਨੁ ਰੇ ॥
Mohi bairāg bẖa▫i▫o. Ih jī▫o ā▫e kahā ga▫i▫o. Pancẖ ṯaṯ mil kā▫i▫ā kīnĥī ṯaṯ kahā ṯe kīn re. Karam baḏẖ ṯum jī▫o kahaṯ hou karmėh kin jī▫o ḏīn re.
I have become sad, wondering where the soul comes from, and where it goes. The body is formed from the union of the five elements; but where were the five elements created? You say that the soul is tied to its karma, but who gave karma to the body?
Guru Nanak Answers in Raag Gauri:
ਸਹਜੇ ਆਵੈ ਸਹਜੇ ਜਾਇ॥ ਮਨ ਤੇ ਉਪਜੈ ਮਨ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਮੁਕਤੋ ਬੰਧੁ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥ ਸਬਦੁ ਬੀਚਾਰਿ ਛੁਟੈ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਇ ॥
Sehjė āvai sehjė jā­ė.Man ṯė upjai man māhi samā­ė.Gurmukẖ mukṯo banḏẖ na pā­ė.Sabaḏ bīcẖār cẖẖutai har nā­ė.
With intuitive ease, we come, and with intuitive ease, we depart. From the mind, we originate, and into the mind, we are absorbed. As Guru willed, we are liberated, and are not bound. Contemplating the Word of the Sabd, we are emancipated through the Name of the Akal Purkh.
ਸਬਦਿ ਮਰੈ ਫਿਰਿ ਮਰਣੁ ਨ ਹੋਇ ॥ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੂਏ ਕਿਉ ਪੂਰਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
Sabaḏ marai fir maraṇ na ho­ė. Bin mū­ė ki­o pūrā ho­ė.
One, who dies in the Word of the Sabd, shall never again have to die. Without such a death, how can one attain perfection? -----Guru Nanak Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 152 & 153
Finally Guru Nanak leaves it up to God in Raag Gauri:
ਕਿਰਤੁ ਪਇਆ ਨਹ ਮੇਟੈ ਕੋਇ ॥ਕਿਆ ਜਾਣਾ ਕਿਆ ਆਗੈ ਹੋਇ ॥ਜੋ ਤਿਸੁ ਭਾਣਾ ਸੋਈ ਹੂਆ ॥ਅਵਰੁ ਨ ਕਰਣੈ ਵਾਲਾ ਦੂਆ ॥ਨਾ ਜਾਣਾ ਕਰਮ ਕੇਵਡ ਤੇਰੀ ਦਾਤਿ ॥ਕਰਮੁ ਧਰਮੁ ਤੇਰੇ ਨਾਮ ਕੀ ਜਾਤਿ ॥
Kiraṯ pa­i­ā nah mėtai ko­ė.Ki­ā jāṇā ki­ā āgai ho­ė.Jo ṯis bẖāṇā so­ī hū­ā.Avar na karṇai vālā ḏū­ā. Nā jāṇā karam kėvad ṯėrī ḏāṯ.Karam ḏẖaram ṯėrė nām kī jāṯ.
Past actions cannot be erased. What do we know of what will happen hereafter? Whatever pleases the Akal Purkh shall happen. There is no other Doer. I do not know about karma, or how great Your gifts are. The karma of actions, the righteousness, social class and status, are contained within Your Name.-----Guru Nanak, Raag Gauri, AGGS, Page, 154-1 & 2
ਹਮ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਕਛੂ ਨ ਜਾਨਹ ਆਗੈ ਜਿਉ ਹਰਿ ਰਾਖੈ ਤਿਉ ਠਾਢੇ ॥ ਹਮ ਭੂਲ ਚੂਕ ਗੁਰ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਧਾਰਹੁ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਕੁਤਰੇ ਕਾਢੇ ॥
Ham jāni­ā kacẖẖū na jānah āgai ji­o har rākẖai ṯi­o ṯẖādẖė. Ham bẖūl cẖūk gur kirpā ḏẖārahu jan Nānak kuṯrė kādẖė.
I know nothing, and I do not know the future; as the Akal Purkh keeps me, so do I stand. For my failings and mistakes, O Guru, grant me Your Grace; servant Nanak is Your obedient dog.-----Guru Ram Das, Raag Gauri Poorbi, AGGS, Page, 171-5
Guru Arjan in Raag Maru ponders on the subject;
ਆਗਾਹਾ ਕੂ ਤ੍ਰਾਘਿ ਪਿਛਾ ਫੇਰਿ ਨ ਮੁਹਡੜਾ ॥ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਿਝਿ ਇਵੇਹਾ ਵਾਰ ਬਹੁੜਿ ਨ ਹੋਵੀ ਜਨਮੜਾ ॥
Āgāhā kū ṯarāgẖ picẖẖā fėr na muhadṛā. Nānak sijẖ ivėhā vār bahuṛ na hovī janamṛā.
Look ahead; don't look back over your shoulders to the past. O Nanak, be successful this time, as there is no birth again.-----Guru Arjan, Raag Maru-Dakhnay, AGGS, Page, 1096-12
A plea is made to make up your own mind about reincarnation as it can not be resolved in a debate.
Cordially,
Virinder
Reincarnation is just a fancy word for recycling. All material, organic and inorganic (the latter also includes the dead), has to be recycled. It is the law of the land.
As far as reincarnation from Sikhi ideals is concerned, all the Shabads related to this belief say that if one follows the true path of Sikhi, then one attains the mental tools to get rid of this silly belief. However, in order to show that this belief has no value on human life, our Gurus did acknowledge the existence of it in Hinduism, Islam ( heaven and hell), because both these religions and many other cling to this belief quite fervently. In fact this belief is the cornerstone of many religions.
As TRUTH- SAT, needs no belief, nor does it need any make believe, our Gurus used beautiful poetry to explain what SAT is and gave us the tools how to live a truthful living which does not include the belief of reincarnation which is nothing but a snake oil rub for the ignorant so they can hold on to something other than common sense, reason and pragmatism which are cornerstones of Sikhi.
Tejwant Singh
As far as reincarnation from Sikhi ideals is concerned, all the Shabads related to this belief say that if one follows the true path of Sikhi, then one attains the mental tools to get rid of this silly belief. However, in order to show that this belief has no value on human life, our Gurus did acknowledge the existence of it in Hinduism, Islam ( heaven and hell), because both these religions and many other cling to this belief quite fervently. In fact this belief is the cornerstone of many religions.
As TRUTH- SAT, needs no belief, nor does it need any make believe, our Gurus used beautiful poetry to explain what SAT is and gave us the tools how to live a truthful living which does not include the belief of reincarnation which is nothing but a snake oil rub for the ignorant so they can hold on to something other than common sense, reason and pragmatism which are cornerstones of Sikhi.
Tejwant Singh
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