Listening To Instead Of Reciting Bani?

Sat Sri Akal Ji,

I have the daily prayers in audio format (Giani Thakur Singh Ji's recording of Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tav Parsad Savaiye, Chaupai Sahib, Anand Sahib, Rehras Sahib, and Kirtan Sohila.) I also have the iPhone app called iNitnem E (English) and it has the trasliteration and translations for them so I can follow along as I listen.

Since I am not fluent in Punjabi is it ok to listen to these as recordings instead of reciting them?

What about if I chose to do Amrit? I know in the Rehet it says that all Sikhs should be fluent in Punjabi, and reading Gurmukhi, but even trying to learn I know that I am not good with languages.... at all! I took French all through school years and learned a vocabulary of about maybe 50 words and can only say very basic phrases (like ask for directions etc). Can I still do Amrit if I am not fluent in Punjabi, and I can I use recordings and translations to follow along, instead of reciting them on my own? Or does my ability to do Amrit depend on me having to fluently learn Punjabi??

Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??

Akasha Ji, I think Amrit is such a big Commitment that one shouldn't rush into it for any reason. I don't think God/Guru would judge you for holding off & really preparing & prepping yourself w/ the adequate Life-style/knowledge before stepping into this commitment. B/c Once it's made, its made, there's no going back. There's no, 'Oh i wish I knew how to do this better or that,' One should sufficiently prepare themselves beforehand. You don't forget a ring to a wedding (well, a western one), or forget to tell your partner you love them, for not Knowing the language, you prep yourself before-hand for the Commitment you are about to make. The better the preparation, the smoother the sailing afterwards (presumably). But yea, in terms of not knowing the Gurbani in its original form, at least the Daily Prayers, I think it's a No-go for the Amrit life-style. However, I think for the stage you're at (& as am I... the sort of beginning 'learners' etc.) I think it's adequate to just listen as well as you can & try to grasp the pronunciation & couple them w/ the Translations. The effort is what matters.

**My opinions only, please do not take offense** thank you

Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??

So basically you are saying that if I can not grasp the language (being bad at learning languages...) then I should never be able to do Amrit? I know that Amrit is a huge commitment, and I am taking steps to live by it now, before I ever do. But you are saying that if I am just not wired to learn to speak fluent Punjabi, then I can never do Amrit? That is disappointing... as I will always feel only part way to where I want to be and was hoping to do Amrit in a couple of years from now. Some people are just not wired to learn certain things... I am good with science and math, but not languages. As for the lifestyle, I am already living most of it now.

Navdeep88 said:

Akasha Ji, I think Amrit is such a big Commitment that one shouldn't rush into it for any reason. I don't think God/Guru would judge you for holding off & really preparing & prepping yourself w/ the adequate Life-style/knowledge before stepping into this commitment. B/c Once it's made, its made, there's no going back. There's no, 'Oh i wish I knew how to do this better or that,' One should sufficiently prepare themselves beforehand. You don't forget a ring to a wedding (well, a western one), or forget to tell your partner you love them, for not Knowing the language, you prep yourself before-hand for the Commitment you are about to make. The better the preparation, the smoother the sailing afterwards (presumably). But yea, in terms of not knowing the Gurbani in its original form, at least the Daily Prayers, I think it's a No-go for the Amrit life-style. However, I think for the stage you're at (& as am I... the sort of beginning 'learners' etc.) I think it's adequate to just listen as well as you can & try to grasp the pronunciation & couple them w/ the Translations. The effort is what matters.

**My opinions only, please do not take offense** thank you

Click to expand...

Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??

Akasha said:

So basically you are saying that if I can not grasp the language (being bad at learning languages...) then I should never be able to do Amrit? I know that Amrit is a huge commitment, and I am taking steps to live by it now, before I ever do. But you are saying that if I am just not wired to learn to speak fluent Punjabi, then I can never do Amrit? That is disappointing... as I will always feel only part way to where I want to be and was hoping to do Amrit in a couple of years from now. Some people are just not wired to learn certain things... I am good with science and math, but not languages. As for the lifestyle, I am already living most of it now.

Click to expand...

You said you were not "wired" to learn languages etc. I believe in no such thing. I went by the info you gave & basically said that one should have the proper knowledge to go about this commitment, one of which being to be able to Pronounce & recite Gurbani in its original form. As your commitment is years away, I believe that should be enough time to get it down pat. Best of luck, thank you.

Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??

Don't worry about this issue too much.
I mentioned something similar to this last week on a different thread ' rehat maryada and it's divisions'
What was similar was the fact that many elders that are illeterate and cannot read or write are told by the panj pyarey during amrit, that they should listen as well as doing waheguru jap.
The focus of the thread was that many rely so much on what the panj pyarey instruct you whilst ignoring other issues.

However with this in mind, you should be aware that elders of the age of 60 or 70 that have never been able to read are very less likely to learn know, so then they are not excluded from taking amrit.
With us being young and able to learn, it would be ignorant if we took the same approach without even trying.

Many don't feel personally obliged for amrit if they have language barriers, but that doesn't mean you cannot.
It is NOT up to me or anyone to suggest if one is ready or not, that can only be determined by the sikh following the path, which is yourself.

Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??

What does the SRM say about it for amritdharis? I know it says listening is ok for a Sikh but not sure re Khalsa and not at a pc to check

I find the recordings by rajnarind kaur the best as she's made them explicitly for learning pronunciations so they are crystal clear.

But even if you hang your amrit sanchar on your ability to parrot the banis, isn't it more meaningful to know what it is you're actually saying? If you wait to know what it is you're actually saying you then have to understand it. It could make a very long time!

I read somewhere that amrit sanchar isn't the end, it's the beginning.

I say, go for it. If you can even keep up a daily schedule of listening to banis you're already ahead of lots of so called Khalsa.

Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??

I have the daily prayers in audio format (Giani Thakur Singh Ji's recording of Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tav Parsad Savaiye, Chaupai Sahib, Anand Sahib, Rehras Sahib, and Kirtan Sohila.) I also have the iPhone app called iNitnem E (English) and it has the trasliteration and translations for them so I can follow along as I listen.

Click to expand...

You are aleady showing more devotion and interest than many of the people whose opinion you seek

Since I am not fluent in Punjabi is it ok to listen to these as recordings instead of reciting them?

Click to expand...

I do not think anyone has the right to tell anyone else how best to communicate with Creator.

What about if I chose to do Amrit? I know in the Rehet it says that all Sikhs should be fluent in Punjabi, and reading Gurmukhi, but even trying to learn I know that I am not good with languages.... at all!

Click to expand...

I would not worry too much, the SRM also says you should not associate with those that dye their beards. Even if it takes another 10 years to slowly learn Gurmukhi, it would be a wonderful journey, feeling concepts change as you learn the original language, getting a few wow moments, I would not bother trying to learn, just keep your wits about you, and you will pick it up, an interest in something makes learning a lot quicker and easier.

Can I still do Amrit if I am not fluent in Punjabi, and I can I use recordings and translations to follow along, instead of reciting them on my own? Or does my ability to do Amrit depend on me having to fluently learn Punjabi??

Click to expand...

Ask your heart, visualise Guruji, in all his compassion and love and empathy, rules are great as a guide, but the answers your heart give you rise above rules. If you understand, I think that would be enough, and being fluent in Punjabi is no guarantee of understanding.

Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??

Akasha said:

Sat Sri Akal Ji,

I have the daily prayers in audio format (Giani Thakur Singh Ji's recording of Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tav Parsad Savaiye, Chaupai Sahib, Anand Sahib, Rehras Sahib, and Kirtan Sohila.) I also have the iPhone app called iNitnem E (English) and it has the trasliteration and translations for them so I can follow along as I listen.

Since I am not fluent in Punjabi is it ok to listen to these as recordings instead of reciting them?

What about if I chose to do Amrit? I know in the Rehet it says that all Sikhs should be fluent in Punjabi, and reading Gurmukhi, but even trying to learn I know that I am not good with languages.... at all! I took French all through school years and learned a vocabulary of about maybe 50 words and can only say very basic phrases (like ask for directions etc). Can I still do Amrit if I am not fluent in Punjabi, and I can I use recordings and translations to follow along, instead of reciting them on my own? Or does my ability to do Amrit depend on me having to fluently learn Punjabi??

Click to expand...

Satnaam Akasha Ji,

Do not worry about whether you can read punjabi or not...as guru ji says:

jo praanee govi(n)dh dhhiaavai ||
That mortal who meditates on the Lord of the Universe,

parriaa anaparriaa param gath paavai ||1||
whether educated or uneducated, obtains the state of supreme dignity. ||1|| 197

What else do you need to know? keep listening to gurbani, take time to do your simran and take your dyaan/focus inwards...all the gyan is already within you and it will slowly come to you as you go deeper towards guru ji.
do not waste another breathe, even if the only words you know are satnaam and waheguru, meditate on them...and your love for god/guru will take you forward...

Jin Prem Kio Tin Hee Prabh Paayo
whoever has loved has attained the Lord

Concentrate on these shabads than worrying too much about whether you know enough punjabi.

My punjabi is only basic, i try to recite in punjabi as much as possible...but
none of us know how long our life is, so don't waste time worrying about these details. Doing your amrit vela simran and having a deep love to realise god doesnt need any language whatsoever

Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??

Navdeep88 said:

You said you were not "wired" to learn languages etc. I believe in no such thing. I went by the info you gave & basically said that one should have the proper knowledge to go about this commitment, one of which being to be able to Pronounce & recite Gurbani in its original form. As your commitment is years away, I believe that should be enough time to get it down pat. Best of luck, thank you.

Click to expand...

Unfortunately, as I said, I took French all through school years and really never learned anything. A few words maybe and how to say hello, where is the washroom? And French uses the same romanized alphabet. With Punjabi, not only do I need to learn vocabulary, but also a whole new way of reading. I doubt that in two years I will be fluent! If I have to wait until I am fluent, I will never get to do Amrit.

I am not saying that I will stop trying to learn it though. But as Ishna says, I thought Amrit was the beginning of the journey, not the end. So then if it's in my heart to really want to be Amritdhari, and I do everything that is asked of me (daily bani, keeping kesh, no intoxicants, veggie, 5 K's etc) then why can't I do Amrit, and listen to and read along with the original Gurbani, the transliteration into Punjabi, and also the English? Rather than trying to memorize Punjabi vocabulary for the rest of my life, I think eventually I will learn more by reading the translations side by side. I do that now at the Gurdwara on the screen.

I can actually say the full Mool Mantra in Punjabi, and recognize it in Gurmukhi too... but only because I have seen it many times. I am not actually 'reading' it. I can also recognize 'Nanak' now because I recognize the character for n sound and k. But even if I learn all the phonetic sounds to the point where I can sound out the words, I will still lack the Punjabi vocabulary to have a conversation or understand what I am reading. That could take literally years and the rest of my life to try to learn, and if I used that as a gage for taking Amrit, then I will never do so.

As for the commitment of doing Amrit, I have been studying Sikhism for over 10 years now and slowly adding more in practice bit by bit so that it has been easy. If I had tried to add everything all at once, it would have been difficult to do I think. But I started with just Japji Sahib, and wearing a kara. Then stopping cutting hairs. I am now adding kachera, and trying to learn to tie a dastar. Once I can do that well enough, I will start carrying the kanga too. This has been over months... and I am aiming for 1.5-2 years from now to do Amrit (thats when I am going on a trip to Amritsar and would like to do it at the Golden Temple if its possible). It's just the language barrier that worries me.

Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??

Chaz Ji,

chazSingh said:

Satnaam Akasha Ji,

Do not worry about whether you can read punjabi or not...as guru ji says:

jo praanee govi(n)dh dhhiaavai ||
That mortal who meditates on the Lord of the Universe,

parriaa anaparriaa param gath paavai ||1||
whether educated or uneducated, obtains the state of supreme dignity. ||1|| 197

...but
none of us know how long our life is, so don't waste time worrying about these details. Doing your amrit vela simran and having a deep love to

Click to expand...

Very good point about none of us knowing how long our life will be. I could put off doing Amrit, saying I will do it when I feel I can read and understand Punjabi, and then something could happen where Waheguru calls me home sooner, and I would have lost out. Hence, this is why I think Amrit is the beginning and not the end. It's a promise to Guru Ji to live in this way, and to learn (isn't that what 'Sikh' means anyway... learner?) Life IS short, and I never really thought of that in this context but I think you hit the nail on the head. And I think in my heart that Waheguru KNOWS none of us are perfect, as long as our hearts and minds are in the right place and we give it our best.

Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??

Akasha said:

Chaz Ji,



Very good point about none of us knowing how long our life will be. I could put off doing Amrit, saying I will do it when I feel I can read and understand Punjabi, and then something could happen where Waheguru calls me home sooner, and I would have lost out. Hence, this is why I think Amrit is the beginning and not the end. It's a promise to Guru Ji to live in this way, and to learn (isn't that what 'Sikh' means anyway... learner?) Life IS short, and I never really thought of that in this context but I think you hit the nail on the head. And I think in my heart that Waheguru KNOWS none of us are perfect, as long as our hearts and minds are in the right place and we give it our best.

Click to expand...

We live in the illusion of time. The past is just memories....the future is just dreams, hopes and desires...but we are only conscious of the present...only the present moment exists....make it a good moment

We have to learn to become good listeners...when you listen to your gurbani tapes...listen to them with full focus...single mindedness...to very single word and sound...learn to ignore our wavering mind. This 'listening' will train us to listen to the guru's shabad that is within us...by guru ji's grace we will all be blessed with that stage.

God bless.

Hey,
I've got good news for you. The SRM says
g. [FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial][FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial]Learning Gurmukhi (Punjabi in Gurmukhi script) is essential for a Sikh. He should pursue other studies also. [/FONT][FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial]- 12 - [/FONT]
[FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial][/FONT]
[FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial]It doesn't say being fluent. Technically speaking right now your learning .[/FONT]

[FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial]From my point of view, People get to hung up on the "only in Punjabi can you understand" trying to make it a sacred language.Granted anything written is better understood in the original. However, the very reason Guru Nanak wrote in Punjabi, instead of Sanskrit ,was to make it accessible to everyone. [/FONT]
[FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial]I know this is out of context but it makes a nice closing.[/FONT]
[FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial]suixAY lwgY shij iDAwnu ] [/FONT][FONT=CGOLLD+Arial,Arial]
suni-ai laagai sahj Dhi-aan.
Listening-intuitively grasp the essence of meditation.

[/FONT][/FONT]

Vaheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Vaheguru Ji Ki Fateh ||

Akasha Ji -

When I was living back home in Punjab in 1984 I graduated from Convent High School. I was 15/16 year old and didn't study Punjabi at all. My Parents had taught me to do Japji Sahib and that was it. June 1984 affected us all very badly and my family decided to go for Amrit Sanchaar Ceremony. I was the youngest in family and jumped in the bandwagon too. Everyone laughed at me - hey, you don't know how to do Path / Nitnem how will you work it out ? I used to say I will do Vaheguru, Vaheguru Jaap.
There are people who are illeterate or people like me or you who don't have command over the language ! So anyways to cut the long story short - I was a young boy without commitment ( which you have ). I went to college got busy and was unable to keep up with Nitnem part. I will do it here and there. Japji Sahib was easy to do. Jaap Sahib took me forever to get used to. Then i got married i came here to US. Back home there were too many distractions. Sikh freedom movement / family circumstances were changing / I was young and so many other excuses .... I kept on to my 5 Kakaars. I forgot to mention I was deeply hurt when i had to take off my Kirpan at the Airport on my first trip.
But once here I tried to keep up with Nitnem here and there. But i was not regular.
I got involved in Gurduara Sahib Managment / community affairs.
Believe it or not started volunteering in Punjabi School. Even though i didn't study Punjabi as a first language but my Punjabi was still better than most of the people involved in Sunday School. I used to curse the system which didn't teach us our own language. That passion inside me motivated me the most. People asked me to teach there kids Punjabi and I couldn't refuse them. It reminded of my School days without learning our mother tongue. In the meantime I was blessed with 2 daughters. Now I was even more fired up to teach Punjabi / Gurmukhi. I ended up with lots of students.
I also did my first Sehaj Path of Guru Granth Sahib on the 300 Aniversary or Guru Granth Sahib. It took me one full year. I also did Gurbani Santhiya with Giani Ji to help me with Sehaj path. Now I am also involved in Gurmat Sangeet. I am a student and organiser of 3 classes. We hired a professional teacher and have over 20 students.
I am telling you all this - because you are doing what other's are still far far away from ! If you have that fire / passion inside you to succeed on this Marg then one day sooner or later you will achieve it.
I am no one to advise you - but i can tell you from personal experience. My brother first started with maintaining Rehat - meaning wearing all 5 Kakaars, doing Nitnem and following Rehat. After testing himself - then he decided to go ahead with Amrit Sanchaar.
I have also seen people who skip all this and fail badly ....
Now it's all up to you - you have already started listening to Bani and are attempting to learn and understand it. That's one step forward.
Keep it up !

Daas,
Harjot Singh

Make a progress, and learn - doesnt matter if you are fast or slow. The main point is you are not giving up!

Re: Listening to instead of reciting Bani??

Akasha said:

Unfortunately, as I said, I took French all through school years and really never learned anything. A few words maybe and how to say hello, where is the washroom? And French uses the same romanized alphabet. With Punjabi, not only do I need to learn vocabulary, but also a whole new way of reading. I doubt that in two years I will be fluent! If I have to wait until I am fluent, I will never get to do Amrit.

I never said Fluency in the whole Language was important. There's a lot in Punjabiyat that is not in line w/ Sikhism. I think the basic pronunciation of the Basic DAILY PRAYERS is what you were referring to, & they are, what? Three hours in length? I think anyone of the Adult size can learn that in a matter of months if they really put their heart to it. (That is not to say you should skip translations, )

I am not saying that I will stop trying to learn it though. But as Ishna says, I thought Amrit was the beginning of the journey, not the end. Everyone has, & is Allowed to have their Own Perception. I have my own, I shared it. I respect others who think differently, b/c it is the Intent, the Heart of a person that matters. I have no beef w/ People who think Differently, as long as they focus on their own growth. It bothers me None. So then if it's in my heart to really want to be Amritdhari, and I do everything that is asked of me (daily bani, keeping kesh, no intoxicants, veggie, 5 K's etc) then why can't I do Amrit, and listen to and read along with the original Gurbani, the transliteration into Punjabi, and also the English? Rather than trying to memorize Punjabi vocabulary for the rest of my life, I think eventually I will learn more by reading the translations side by side. I do that now at the Gurdwara on the screen. Good for you.

I can actually say the full Mool Mantra in Punjabi, and recognize it in Gurmukhi too... but only because I have seen it many times. I am not actually 'reading' it. I can also recognize 'Nanak' now because I recognize the character for n sound and k. But even if I learn all the phonetic sounds to the point where I can sound out the words, I will still lack the Punjabi vocabulary to have a conversation or understand what I am reading. That could take literally years and the rest of my life to try to learn, and if I used that as a gage for taking Amrit, then I will never do so.

As for the commitment of doing Amrit, I have been studying Sikhism for over 10 years now and slowly adding more in practice bit by bit so that it has been easy. If I had tried to add everything all at once, it would have been difficult to do I think. But I started with just Japji Sahib, and wearing a kara. Then stopping cutting hairs. I am now adding kachera, and trying to learn to tie a dastar. Once I can do that well enough, I will start carrying the kanga too. This has been over months... and I am aiming for 1.5-2 years from now to do Amrit (thats when I am going on a trip to Amritsar and would like to do it at the Golden Temple if its possible). It's just the language barrier that worries me.

Click to expand...

Personally, I think the Prayers in their Original form hold a lot more merit than Translations. One of the reasons being that if everyone would read translations, then the Original form, would go eventually extinct. & that is kind of Sad, b/c that's not what they were written as, in English. It was written in Gurmukhi.

Second, I think you misunderstood what I said, I was merely speaking about coupling the translations w/ the Prayers, not the entire Punjabi language.

There is nothing wrong with reading the english transliterations.
This way the whole spoken vocab is punjabi, even though you may be reading it in roman or english language.

Akashji, you have no need to worry and you can read your nitnem with the transliterations. However, I do suggest that to keep your pronounciations correct, that you read along the nitnem whilst listening to it on tape or cd until you get enough practice to be able to read without listening.
This way you build up more confidence in your speech and pronouncing of punjabi language. After doing this repeatedly you can then start on your own reading the transliteration in english letters, but your speech shall all be coming across in the correct gurmukhi.

Infact, I do this quite often, because my reading of gurmukhi is quite slow. I find that if I'm looking for shabads to do for kirtan, then I scan through various ones in the transliterated versions as I feel more confident and at ease.

When one can read and pronounce the gurmukhi to near perfection even whilst reading from transliterated text, then to anyone listening they would never be able to distinguish if you were reading from gurmukhi text or not.

This is providing you train yourself in the method I mentioned.
I have used the above method myself, as I only started learning to read gurmukhi after I had mastered the transliterations.
I never even saw the punjabi alphabet until I was much older, so you have better chances than most people.

I would NOT let your punjabi vocab and reading dictate when you may take amrit.
I believe it is perfectly fine to read english text or transliterated versions to do your nitnem.

With time it will come, but don't try and force it on yourself. You can proceed in this manner whilst trying to learn and grasp the gurmukhi word by word.
I know, it's not easy by any means even though I have the advantage of being able to speak fluent punjabi.

This weekend the 'Chardi Kala' jatha of MiriPiri academy were at the Gurdwara. You may be aware that these are american gora sikhs, and there were also many other gora sikhs present from the States. I came across a few that were amritdhari and they themselves were either learning or had learnt gurmukhi after managing so far on transliterations !!
This shows just how much value the text has, providing it is spoken correctly.
I wouldn't suggest it as an alternative, but to maximise your correct spoken word by utilising it, is a must for all non-gurmukhi readers.
Then you can use it to increase your gurmukhi reading and later come to just using the gurmukhi on it's own.

From Gurbanee one gets to know as
ਪਉੜੀ ॥ ਕੋਈ ਗਾਵੈ ਕੋ ਸੁਣੈ ਕੋਈ ਕਰੈ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥ ਕੋ ਉਪਦੇਸੈ ਕੋ ਦ੍ਰਿੜੈ ਤਿਸ ਕਾ ਹੋਇ ਉਧਾਰੁ ॥ ਕਿਲਬਿਖ ਕਾਟੈ ਹੋਇ ਨਿਰਮਲਾ ਜਨਮ ਜਨਮ ਮਲੁ ਜਾਇ ॥ ਹਲਤਿ ਪਲਤਿ ਮੁਖੁ ਊਜਲਾ ਨਹ ਪੋਹੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਮਾਇ ॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 300}
The clear message is Some may Sing ,Some may listen and Some may contemplate
Some may advice and some may strongly stand for gurbanee Also there is a message what is the ultimate objective which is given as
ਸੋ ਸੁਰਤਾ ਸੋ ਬੈਸਨੋ ਸੋ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਧਨਵੰਤੁ ॥ ਸੋ ਸੂਰਾ ਕੁਲਵੰਤੁ ਸੋਇ ਜਿਨਿ ਭਜਿਆ ਭਗਵੰਤੁ ॥ ਖਤ੍ਰੀ ਬ੍ਰਾਹਮਣੁ ਸੂਦੁ ਬੈਸੁ ਉਧਰੈ ਸਿਮਰਿ ਚੰਡਾਲ ॥ ਜਿਨਿ ਜਾਨਿਓ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਆਪਨਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਿਸਹਿ ਰਵਾਲ ॥੧੭॥ {ਪੰਨਾ 300}
The ultimate objective is having known PRABHu......

Dear Sister Akasha ji, you are awesome! you are very exited to join the khalsa panth.
you have so much love for God's who's language is only love. no one have right to stop you for doing that. You can take Amrit anytime when you will feel deep voice from your heart. Guru Gobind Singh ji is calling you to become Guru ji's daughter then who can stop you. There is nothing wrong listening to nitnem as long as you listening with devotion. When i had first time read your post about being amitdhari after 2 or 3 years, my heart filled with joy. i want to see my khalsa panth expanding. Go for it don't wait, you are ready now. Guru will guide you step by step, just surrender your self to guruji, do ardass with your every breath, beg for Guru ji Amrit. Keep moving, don't look back life is too short, enjoy the Guru ji company. Everything you will get it will happen after you will be amitdhari. When i took amrit i was 7 months pregnant, didn't tell anybody not even to my family members. Now I started feeling guru ji is with me, Guru ji is guiding me, i don't ask anything from others. Guru answers my questions. I would suggest you as you already are prepared for your journey, go for it don't delay, panth needs more khalsa membersn like you
we are all one in different bodies. Don't worry about anything you are already better than us
love to all

Good Luck my Sis.

Akasha said:

Sat Sri Akal Ji,

I have the daily prayers in audio format (Giani Thakur Singh Ji's recording of Japji Sahib, Jaap Sahib, Tav Parsad Savaiye, Chaupai Sahib, Anand Sahib, Rehras Sahib, and Kirtan Sohila.) I also have the iPhone app called iNitnem E (English) and it has the trasliteration and translations for them so I can follow along as I listen.

Since I am not fluent in Punjabi is it ok to listen to these as recordings instead of reciting them?

What about if I chose to do Amrit? I know in the Rehet it says that all Sikhs should be fluent in Punjabi, and reading Gurmukhi, but even trying to learn I know that I am not good with languages.... at all! I took French all through school years and learned a vocabulary of about maybe 50 words and can only say very basic phrases (like ask for directions etc). Can I still do Amrit if I am not fluent in Punjabi, and I can I use recordings and translations to follow along, instead of reciting them on my own? Or does my ability to do Amrit depend on me having to fluently learn Punjabi??

Click to expand...

Akasha Ji

They say ...have faith in Waheguru & just get into the tides. Waheguru will help & take you to the safe shore.

So w/o a single doubt & delays just take the "Amrit" & Punjabi/Gurmukhi can be learnt with time .... theres not that hurry & one shud not waste time in taking Amrit as nobody know when he/she will have his/her last breathe. So why waste time ....

Gurfateh !!

Thanks for your kind words! It means a lot to me! I do want to point out however that I am not better than anyone... In fact I am still learning and making many mistakes in this experience we call life. Having said that, I believe the point to life is to realize the divine within ourselves (and everyone else) and merge back with the creator (this was my belief even before I knew this was what Sikhi teaches!)

And a big realization I had awhile back is that (this is just my own realization / opinion) is that the real secret to 'Maya' or the illusion, is that we were never separate from the creator to begin with. We are all examples of the ONE creative consciousness (Waheguru) experiencing itself subjectively through many eyes (us). When I read the passage on P 736 of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji telling us this fact in plain language... I was in awe! Also, having a background in quantum physics and a deep interest in how this physical world really IS an illusion made me want to follow Sikhi even more. I feel that divine presence and wish everyone I know could feel it too, but I guess they have to find it within themselves on their own and that's the whole point.

But, I know my path is to follow Sikhi, and my life has been so blessed and I have been so happy since I started to attend the Gurdwara, do seva etc. I feel I am not 100% ready for Amrit yet though, as my career puts a few roadbloacks as to head covering. As I understand it, once Amritdhari, I would have to cover my head all the time, and though male Sikhs in the Canadian Forces are allowed to wear turbans, there is no allowance for women Sikhs to do so. Instead, its suggested that they wear their regular CF headdress all the time (and there is allowance to keep it on even when normally headdress would be removed like in mess halls etc - however, I can see that causing trouble as it would always be questioned, especially with a Gori Sikh like me where my superiors would always make me prove and provide references where a male Sikh would never have to do that.) I plan on learning to tie a dastar and will need to be done my military career first (which is only a few years away). Which is why I say a few years time from now.

On the other hand, if I can challenge the current CF dress regulations, and find someone to do a video step by step how to tie the typical round women style turban, and if I can learn to do it neatly.... I could see taking Amrit before then! Especially now that I know I don't need to be fluent in Punjabi / Gurmuhki first. I see now that I can learn slowly as I read translations and listen to Nitnem recordings. (btw at the Gurdwara, I do try to sing along and correctly pronounce in Punjabi along with the Sangat as they have a video screen with the transliterations and translations there as well... so that also helps me too and I am actually picking up some words that way just through repitition!)

ps- I attached my favourite quote from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji which is the one I mentioned above from P 736.

Kaur 1968 said:

Dear Sister Akasha ji, you are awesome! you are very exited to join the khalsa panth.
you have so much love for God's who's language is only love. no one have right to stop you for doing that. You can take Amrit anytime when you will feel deep voice from your heart. Guru Gobind Singh ji is calling you to become Guru ji's daughter then who can stop you. There is nothing wrong listening to nitnem as long as you listening with devotion. When i had first time read your post about being amitdhari after 2 or 3 years, my heart filled with joy. i want to see my khalsa panth expanding. Go for it don't wait, you are ready now. Guru will guide you step by step, just surrender your self to guruji, do ardass with your every breath, beg for Guru ji Amrit. Keep moving, don't look back life is too short, enjoy the Guru ji company. Everything you will get it will happen after you will be amitdhari. When i took amrit i was 7 months pregnant, didn't tell anybody not even to my family members. Now I started feeling guru ji is with me, Guru ji is guiding me, i don't ask anything from others. Guru answers my questions. I would suggest you as you already are prepared for your journey, go for it don't delay, panth needs more khalsa membersn like you
we are all one in different bodies. Don't worry about anything you are already better than us
love to all

Good Luck my Sis.

Click to expand...