Sikh Girl Wanting To Marry White Guy

Hi
We are in a situation and need help and advice.
I am a sikh british girl and I am in a relationship with a white guy, however he looks indian and (his nan is from india, yet his mother and father are white)
We both love eachother so so much and we want to get married and share our lives with eachother. I am not willing to have an arranged marridge as I will not be happy
and if it did happen it will end up in a divorce.
The problem is my parents and family are very traditional and I am scared and I know they will not except him. My parents are discussing marriadges for
my older sister at the moment and they will be looking for a guy for me after my sister is married. This will not happen for me for bout 4-5 years yet we need advice
on how we can overcome this problem.
At the moment we have ideas of what we can do, as he looks indian, which is very fortunate. It is just with indian families when a girl gets married, its always
about what family they are from are they suitable etc.
Our ideas are:
. My boyfriend converting to sikh as he looks indian and adopting into an sikh family, however we think it is hard for a family willing to do this for us.
. Another idea was finding another couple in our situation , for example, a sikh guy who wants to marry a white woman, and me marrying the sikh guy
just for everyone else to beleive and then we move abroad and we can be with our partners. ( we know its a long shot)
. Another idea was the same idea as above but, with a gay sikh couple, who parents would not accept there son being gay.
We would really appreciate anybodys advice or help and ideas?
Thanks

star1119 j

You have so many questions and so many possible schemes. But are you ready to get married?

If everything were perfect, with no obstacles in the way, and no back up plans needed in case things don't work out - are you ready to get married emotionally?

If your answer is Yes - would it be an imposition of me to ask you why you do think you are?

Thank you

reply to narayanjot kaur from star1119

Hi, sorry my original thread is locked and dont knw how to unlock, so am replying to your reply on new article.

I know we have many ideas, but the way it is for me is I will be getting married in 4,5 years if i like it or not, this is the way my parents and family are. The way I see it is, I have found the person I want to be with, I believe that the man I am with is the only one for me. I will have no personal say, if I am ready to be married, it will just happen. Yes, i can say no to men my parents introduce me to, but still I will eventually have to say yes to someone. I have found that someone, so this is why we have wrote the original thread for help.

I hope this has answered your question
thanks

Re: reply to narayanjot kaur from star1119

star119 ji

It does not answer my questions. Sorry about that.

The thread is open now.


What kinds of values do we need to bring to marriage to keep the relationship from starting and ending as a charade?


star ji

I do not see how two lovers can begin a life together that is based in trust when they resort to schemes such as you have described. It may seem that love will conquer all. But the love that conquers all is a love that has been mixed with wisdom about people and life.

Please explain in your own words what kind of traits of a person make them ready for marriage.

I have read your post and trying to understand curcumstances. I have some questions for you;

*1st of all are you really ready for marriage?
*Is your study complete?
*Are you working right now?
*Are you ready to live seperate life from your family?(I mean if parents are not willing for this)
*Are really in LOVE?
*What does love mean for you?

What I understand that love is all about giving not taking(nothing to expect).What I think personally your are really young for marriage right now.(why because as you said after 4-5 years after your sister's marriage that mean you have plenty of time to think) just don't RUSH.

A Mother,
You said it all.

Star1119 will you please answer all those Question's asked by A Mother so we can have better understanding where you stand if you really looking for an advice.

I will add one thing more:

*1st of all are you really ready for marriage?
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=31881
*Is your study complete?
*Are you working right now?
*Are you ready to live separate life from your family? (I mean if parents are not willing for this)
*Are really in LOVE?
*What does love mean for you?

* If you decide to take this route what your Children's Future would be
Read the History of Maharaja Ranjit Singh Son Prince No-Nihal Singh was sent to UK when he was young and...................

Peace of Advise does not go to that Road. I have seen in my life few Girls doing it and today they are sorry and they had been cut out of their Family, Friend Circle and there children’s can not say what they are Sikh, Christen, Hindu or Muslim. So with your Lust & desire why they should suffer plus your family!

Bhul Chuk Maaf:carefreekaur:

A light-hearted peek into the future:

Before and after marriage:


Before - You take my breath away.
After - I feel like I’m suffocating.

Before - Twice a night.
After - Twice a month.

Before - She loves the way I take control of a Situation.
After - She called me a controlling, manipulative, egomaniac.

Before - Ricky & Lucy.
After - Fred & Ethel.

Before - Saturday Night Live.
After - Monday Night Football.

Before - He makes me feel like a million dollars.
After - If I had a dime for every stupid thing he’s done…

Before - Don’t Stop.
After - Don’t Start.

Before - The Sound of Music.
After - The Sound of Silence.

Before - Is that all you are eating?
After - Maybe you should just have a salad, honey.

Before - Wheel of Fortune.
After - Jeopardy.

Before - It’s like living a dream.
After - It’s a nightmare.

Before - $60/dozen.
After - $1.50/stem.

Before - Turbocharged.
After - Needs a jump-start

Before - We agree on everything!
After - Doesn’t she have a mind of her own?

Before - Victoria’s Secret.
After - Fruit of the Loom.

Before - Feathers & handcuffs.
After - Ball and chain.

Before - Idol.
After - Idle.

Before - He’s lost without me.
After - Why can’t he ask for directions?

Before - When together, time stands still.
After - This relationship is going nowhere.

Before - Croissant and cappuccino.
After - Bagels and instant coffee.

Before - Oysters.
After - Fishsticks.

Before - I can hardly believe we found each other.
After - How the hell did I end up with someone like you?

Before - Romeo and Juliet.
After - Bill and Hillary!

- Unknown

star1119 ji, Please read few time syol_jyot ji's poem you will realize something. This is the truth and future of this kind of step, and what I feel from your post you love your mom, dad and family thats why you are thinking this and that, and be a practical person. When someone decide to disconnect from family , its not that easy to do that. In your age kids think they are the most intelligents in the world but after while they smak there heads and says I was the stupidest person on the earth. (that is my expierence from my surrounding I have often heard from kids)
I hope that you will not abondon your parents. That is blessing for you from your surrounding.This blessing you can't see today but it will go far with you.( I mean whole life)

star1119 said:

Hi
We are in a situation and need help and advice.
I am a sikh british girl and I am in a relationship with a white guy, however he looks indian and (his nan is from india, yet his mother and father are white)
We both love eachother so so much and we want to get married and share our lives with eachother. I am not willing to have an arranged marridge as I will not be happy
and if it did happen it will end up in a divorce.
The problem is my parents and family are very traditional and I am scared and I know they will not except him. My parents are discussing marriadges for
my older sister at the moment and they will be looking for a guy for me after my sister is married. This will not happen for me for bout 4-5 years yet we need advice
on how we can overcome this problem.
At the moment we have ideas of what we can do, as he looks indian, which is very fortunate. It is just with indian families when a girl gets married, its always
about what family they are from are they suitable etc.
Our ideas are:
. My boyfriend converting to sikh as he looks indian and adopting into an sikh family, however we think it is hard for a family willing to do this for us.
. Another idea was finding another couple in our situation , for example, a sikh guy who wants to marry a white woman, and me marrying the sikh guy
just for everyone else to beleive and then we move abroad and we can be with our partners. ( we know its a long shot)
. Another idea was the same idea as above but, with a gay sikh couple, who parents would not accept there son being gay.
We would really appreciate anybodys advice or help and ideas?
Thanks

Click to expand...

By him willing to become a Sikh it shows he's commited to you. I would say this, let him be a Sikh for 5 years and then see after 5 years whether you are ready to be married and whether he is willing to be a Sikh.

Hello, A.mother thank you for your reply.
To answer your questions; the whole reason we have taken this step and wrote our situation on this forum is because we need advice. We are not rushing into
anything. We are not the the type of people, to just run away, that is never going to happen, he would never let me do that, and never let me and my
family split up. We are looking for a way that we can be accepted, he will convert to sikh, and that is the way we will live our lives, and we will
be going to temple every week, our kids will be brought up as sikhs, and thats all they will know. We are not going to run off and get married, that has
never crossed our minds.
I am still studying. We do not want to live seperate lives from our family, that is why we came up with the ideas as desricbed earlier to avoid that.
The way we see it, is we cannot live without eachother( this is not a typical school crush) We will never be with other people. If we cant marry
eachother, we will not marry anyone else because we wont be truly happy, it would be like living in false happiness.

Hi bmandur, thanks for your reply.
We know we want to be married to eachother and be together always. But we do know we are not ready for it yet, due to circumstanceslike me studying. As everyone knows
after indian girls study their parents look for boys for their girls, and want the best possible person to treat their child like a princess. All we know is
we have found eachother, and we want to settle down after studying, work etc and have a happily, married life together. My mum said to me the other day, 'it is so
hard to find a man for you that will treat you like a princess with 100% respect, thats all parents want'. When she said this, i just wish she could have met him, and would have known
how nice, friendly, supportive he is, and would never ever treat me wrongly. I am quite a strong person and would never put up for nay rubbish from anyone. I know how
serious it is, and would never ever do this unless I was 100% sure amd happy, which I am.

Hi randip singh
I 100% agree in what yuo say. He is 100% to do this, he is ready to embrace sikhism, and learn everything about the culture. He is the one
that says to me I want to go temple with you, we going to go every sunday with our kids.

Hi star 1119
I'am not here to judge you.But i'am wondering..could you explain a few things for me please?Where is the connection-clash between tradition,the religion,and his colour?It seems to me the tradition and the religion contradictory.I realised this lately. Which one is more important to the family which path they are walking on?Because these two things rule out each other on certain level so it cannot be in the same time,thus the result can be very destructive emotionally.I'am asking this because if you identified and localised the real problem, more easier to solve it methodically.
If the situation turning into very serious call this number as a final result.They are experts,and they can give you advice.You can call them confidentially,and they are not judging you.They are UK based, mostly from south-asian background,so they aware of the traditional consquenses.I attended on their 1 day course in London.It was very edifying...and shocking sadly.
Karma Nirvana ,honour-helpline :0800 5999 247
In the case if you can't deal with the family on the peaceful way,or you experience abusive behavior,or emotional,financial,physical blackmail etc..Any form of force and pressure.
By the way this issue very interesting,and a very common problem i just don't know why?It would really worth to study about and it's emotional motivation from pshycological point of view.Unfortunately i also experienced something similar like your case.I think no one supposed to be marrie withouth emotional content.It's just fake..To lie to my own parents,to lie to my "partner"'s parents,to lie to my "partner" and finally to lie to myself...No way.A relationship supposed to be maintained by love not fear and force."The real unity the unity of hearts."
And about the religious attitude.It's not totally about partner choosing,but contains the main principle of the equality in general and the traditional excuses also mentioned.I wish the whole world was enlightned like this.
YouTube- The Role of Women in Sikhism
Write something what is happening because as a told i have some problem as well and maybe i can learn from you..maybe it's not too late to sort it out.Try to deal with the problem on peaceful,logical,responsible,respectful way.You are about to step on your adult life.
Good luck

Hey Star1119,
Your plan #3 was funny.
Seriously, how did you even come up with idea of finding a Gay sikh couple??!!

Anyways, I think what really matters is that you marry a person who really loves you, cares about you and is ready to make a life long commitment.

Considering the fact that you are still studying, you probably still have lot of time before marriage. Right now concentrate on your studies, become successful, independent and make your parents proud.
Once your parents realise that the guy really loves you and will take good care of you, they will eventually agree even if the guy is from another religion. This is not 15th century, you see.

And trying to convert your future husband to Sikhism doesn't really seem practical or fair. It's like saying my religion is better than yours. It's nice that the guy is offering to convert, but if you really love him, you would be fine with him just the way he is.
All religions are equal.

skeptic.freethinker1 said:

Hey Star1119,

Once your parents realise that the guy really loves you and will take good care of you, they will eventually agree even if the guy is from another religion. This is not 15th century, you see.

.

Click to expand...

Disagree totally.

I have seen young men and women thrown out of their house and ostracised over this issue. You have to realise, just because you think this way, or maybe your family does, it doesn't mean everyone else does.

Also note, contrary to our western upbringing, in the vast majority of the world even today, some sort of "arrangement" before marriage is the norm, so you analogy about the 15th century may need to be modified, as even in the 21st century these practices occur.

What we need is calm rational thinking and not a gung ho approach!

Randip Singh Ji,

Randip Singh said:

I have seen young men and women thrown out of their house and ostracised over this issue. You have to realise, just because you think this way, or maybe your family does, it doesn't mean everyone else does.

Click to expand...

And I have seen young women and men being thrown out for not marrying the person of their parent's choice. I have also read numerous news stories of honor killings in Punjab where a girl or a guy married someone from different caste.
Just because you have seen some parents who had rigid beliefs, that doesn't mean their actions were justified. Please don't try to justify such kind of behavior on parent's part.
A kid should respect his/her parents but the parents should also respect their grown up children's wishes and keep their religious taboos from spoiling their kid's life.

Randip Singh said:

in the vast majority of the world even today, some sort of "arrangement" before marriage is the norm, so you analogy about the 15th century may need to be modified, as even in the 21st century these practices occur.

Click to expand...

I didn't say arranged marriage is a 15th century concept. If the person getting married agrees to it, its perfectly fine. But if parents force their will on their kids and make their kids miserable because of their personal beliefs, that surely is a 15th century thing to do.
Are you trying to justify this?

Randip Singh said:

What we need is calm rational thinking and not a gung ho approach!

Click to expand...

Since Star1119 said she is ready to wait 4-5 years and so is the guy, I don't see how this is not 'rational thinking'. Waiting 5 years to be with the person you love is surely not a 'gung ho' approach. It's the most sensible thing to do, given the circumstances.

Now days when youngsters are so restless, kudos to Star1119 for being so sensible and sensitive to her family's wishes. Her parents should be proud of her.

skeptic.freethinker1 said:

Randip Singh Ji,


And I have seen young women and men being thrown out for not marrying the person of their parent's choice. I have also read numerous news stories of honor killings in Punjab where a girl or a guy married someone from different caste.
Just because you have seen some parents who had rigid beliefs, that doesn't mean their actions were justified. Please don't try to justify such kind of behavior on parent's part.

A kid should respect his/her parents but the parents should also respect their grown up children's wishes and keep their religious taboos from spoiling their kid's life.


I didn't say arranged marriage is a 15th century concept. If the person getting married agrees to it, its perfectly fine. But if parents force their will on their kids and make their kids miserable because of their personal beliefs, that surely is a 15th century thing to do.
Are you trying to justify this?


Since Star1119 said she is ready to wait 4-5 years and so is the guy, I don't see how this is not 'rational thinking'. Waiting 5 years to be with the person you love is surely not a 'gung ho' approach. It's the most sensible thing to do, given the circumstances.

Now days when youngsters are so restless, kudos to Star1119 for being so sensible and sensitive to her family's wishes. Her parents should be proud of her.

Click to expand...

You are making a lot of assumptions and killing kids is a very rare thing. You're taking it to the extreme.

Ok lets turn it around.

If parents wish to throw their kids out, that is their decision. What has it got to do with you?

Many countries they do this. In fact I would go on to say, upholding family honour is a majority practice around the world.

Chinese do it, Arabs do it, Indians do it, Italians do it, as well as Greeks, Turks...I could go on.

I may not agree with them, but I will defend their right to hold on to their traditions.

So the question is not one of justification, but seeing the world through Western coloured lenses.

Randip Singh Ji,

Randip Singh said:

You are making a lot of assumptions and killing kids is a very rare thing. You're taking it to the extreme.

Click to expand...

Nope. Orthodox parents following rigid religious traditions are the ones who do the killings. So they are the ones who take it to extreme. I am only pointing it out.

Randip Singh said:

If parents wish to throw their kids out, that is their decision. What has it got to do with you?

Click to expand...

What has this got to do with "me". Nothing. I am only answering a question like you did.
But following your format I can ask you a question too….If a grown up adult(Star1119) wants to marry a person of her choice, it's her decision. What has it got to do with you?
You are trying to help her and so am I.

Randip Singh said:

Many countries they do this. In fact I would go on to say, upholding family honour is a majority practice around the world.

Click to expand...

I have heard this family honor statement before. I think it was from the Pakistani father in Canada who assaulted his daughter for going out on a date with a non-muslim and for being too westernized. It was in news few months back.
Obviously you and Start1119's parent's, being sikhs, are much gentle souls following Guru's path . So obviously I am not saying a Sikh parent would do something like this.
You are just suggesting throwing out a kid for not marrying a person of your choice.
And just because it's a majority practice, doesn't make it right. You know what else was a majority practice 150 years ago…Sati. But it was still wrong.
I am just pointing out the similarity of rigid traditions which people blindly follow under communal pressure.

Randip Singh said:

Chinese do it, Arabs do it, Indians do it, Italians do it, as well as Greeks, Turks...I could go on.

Click to expand...

Yes. Still nothing great about making your grown up children miserable for not following your doctrine. "Everyone does it", doesn't make it right.

Randip Singh said:

I may not agree with them, but I will defend their right to hold on to their traditions.

Click to expand...

And I will defend Star1119's right to choose her life partner and be happy. Them being ready to wait for so many years, shows their love for each other and their respect for their families.

Randip Singh said:

So the question is not one of justification, but seeing the world through Western coloured lenses.

Click to expand...

Since some people out here insinuated that Star1119 wasn't doing the right thing, it did need a justification.
Blaming the western culture for everything is getting a bit hackneyed now. Lets look inside our own rigid taboos first which cause so many issues in our families.


Regards

skeptic.freethinker1 said:

Randip Singh Ji,

Click to expand...

skeptic.freethinker1 said:

Nope. Orthodox parents following rigid religious traditions are the ones who do the killings. So they are the ones who take it to extreme. I am only pointing it out.

Click to expand...

What an extraordinarily generalised statement?

Do you really think orthodox parents following religious traditions are child killers?

skeptic.freethinker1 said:

What has this got to do with "me". Nothing. I am only answering a question like you did.
But following your format I can ask you a question too….If a grown up adult(Star1119) wants to marry a person of her choice, it's her decision. What has it got to do with you?
You are trying to help her and so am I.

Click to expand...

I am not questioning Star, but I am question your sweeping generalisations (as highlighted above).

Unlike you, I am neither here to help nor hinder, and if someone comes on to this forum (for which I am a mod), I am duty bound to answer. You have a choice whether not to answer or not, as a visitor.

You are correct it is her choice, but as mods of the Sikh philosophy forum we take our roles seriously hence do not make gung ho sweeping generalisations. Like I said, calm rational thinking.

skeptic.freethinker1 said:

I have heard this family honor statement before. I think it was from the Pakistani father in Canada who assaulted his daughter for going out on a date with a non-muslim and for being too westernized. It was in news few months back.
Obviously you and Start1119's parent's, being sikhs, are much gentle souls following Guru's path . So obviously I am not saying a Sikh parent would do something like this.
You are just suggesting throwing out a kid for not marrying a person of your choice.
And just because it's a majority practice, doesn't make it right. You know what else was a majority practice 150 years ago…Sati. But it was still wrong.
I am just pointing out the similarity of rigid traditions which people blindly follow under communal pressure.

Click to expand...

Why are Sikhs much gentler souls than Pakistani’s? Surly everyone is an individual?

This is what I am talking about, we cannot take a sweeping view that just because someone follows x faith or no faith rigidly, they will assault their children.
And honour, when it is about self respect and respecting yourself can be a good thing. It becomes a bad thing when it is used as a means of repression. But then again other things can be used as a means of repression.

The Sati example, is pretty lame btw, and you will know that, if you read into the history of it and digress’s.

skeptic.freethinker1 said:

Yes. Still nothing great about making your grown up children miserable for not following your doctrine. "Everyone does it", doesn't make it right.

Click to expand...

What makes you think all children are miserable? How can you make that sweeping generalised statement?

skeptic.freethinker1 said:

And I will defend Star1119's right to choose her life partner and be happy. Them being ready to wait for so many years, shows their love for each other and their respect for their families.

Click to expand...

You can defend whatever you want. This is a Sikh forum and as mods we are here to present the Sikh perspective. If you cannot understand that, then this is not the forum for you.

I married out of choice and from experience; I know there are consequences to that. I chose not to run away like some of the despicable cowards I see do that, but we chose to face our community and got married. You could say I am rigidly orthodox and Sikh. We also chose not to offend, but to persuade what we were doing was not against the Sikh teachings. How would I fit into your stereo-typical view?

skeptic.freethinker1 said:

Since some people out here insinuated that Star1119 wasn't doing the right thing, it did need a justification.
Blaming the western culture for everything is getting a bit hackneyed now. Lets look inside our own rigid taboos first which cause so many issues in our families.

Regards

Click to expand...

Err no actually its not.

As someone born and brought up third generation in the UK, I can tell you it is no garden of Eden here. There is a total break down of respect, family values, etc etc. People seem to have lost self respect for themselves. I have noticed this over a period of time. Its not just Indians, but I speak to Italian, Greek, Spanish, German, parents and they are all of the same view.

I one day asked someone who is about 40 years old whom I hold in high esteem whether arranged marriages work better or love marriages . He told me that look in West it is only love which is the primary condition as a result more than 60% of marriages end in divorces children of such marriages grow up in an abnormal atmosphere which makes them furthur vunerable in terms of handling marriage pressures . So a vicious cycle goes on & this black hole keeps increasing . Whereas in Indian marriages it is the bonding of two families which try to keep the marriage going hence more sucessful family lives & marriages . BTW I have a very good article on Sikh Marriage called Anand Karaj ( The ceremony of Eternal Bliss ) I suggest star1119 to give it a look .
http://dalbirk.blogspot.com/2010/01/anand-karaj.html
BTW I am not against the marriage of two Sikhs ( ie if he certainly has adopted Sikhi from the core of his heart )