Sects Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth And The Radha Soami

I have a friend who has taken the path veering off sikhism into the radhasoami cult, and he, and the general RS population, I am led to believe, strongly believe that in order to learn from the religions of the world today, inc the Guru Granth Sahib, that there must be a living Guru, and as such they have had many 'gurus' to date.

What do my learned friends within this forum actually think of this?
The Passage in the title of this message clearly indicates that our teaching is that the Guru Granth Sahib is the only Guru, after the last living incarnation. My understanding of a Guru is , a pathway of learning to God, WaheGuru.

Re: Sab sikhu ko hukam hay Guru manu Grath

Gurfateh

Well Guru of Sikh is one who is neither born nor can die.It is Gurbar Akal or eternal Guru.

And Gurubani is the vebal manifestation of that.

And in fact by Gurubani we reach the status of oneness with Akal by becoming Khalsa and we attain the status of Guru.From us did Tenth Nanak took baptism.He said for us that from their mercy I am Gloryfied else there are millions of poors like me.

That Tenth Nanak gave his sons,Father,Mother ,own life and ultimatly own Guruship to us but still said that anyone who call him God will go to hel and behold him as slave of eternal Guru(Akal).

So only fools will give away his own throne of Guruship to sthe hammer who preach the personal worship and that shammer guru is nothing more than a tout who wants to become a meddle men betwen us and God and wants to earn profit in the form of fund which we may offer.

So ask your unfortunate friend about his Radhswami guru that can his guru give his own Gaddi or throne to him(your freind) like our Father Guru Gobind Singh did.But Radhswamis who are always in litigation for funds hardly will listen or understand what Das has said or what your freind may ask them.

Well as will of Akal,your freind may have been unfit to sit on the throne of Guruhood givne to Guru Panth Khalsa so he got demotion to follow a cult.Das knows many people who have left Radhswamism and gone after Gurmat.

Das has many realtions who are hindus converted to Radhswamis but most of them do it in sheep mentailty.non is aware of preaching of Radhswamis,even thier gurus themselves are confused.Just as a fashion to see others going that way they also become Radha Swamias.

Some fault could be given to our leaders os of sgpc also but Das will discuss it in aother thread.

Sabh Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai, Guru Maaniyo Granth

Re: Sabh Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai, Guru Maaniyo Granth

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Jazz
Your friend is correct. You have to find a living guru. Because only a living guru can explain what the guru granth sahib says. Otherwise how will you understand? Just like you need a guide to explain you a simple geaographical map, similarly you need a living guide to explain you the real meanings of gurugranth sahib; because only a guide knows the various signs, directions, routes and the bypasses on the map. If you think that you can manage without a guide, and just with a map you can reach enlightenment, then best of luck my friend.

Guru granth sahib is just like a map, its like a set of directions pointing towards your inner consciousness. Its a poetry of the ones who have known the eternal. Its a poetry of the ones who have tasted the tasteless; and a poetry is not an easy thing to understand. Poetry of even an ordinary poet is quite difficult to understand, then how can you make out what the ten gurus were trying to say?

If you want to know how to swim then its better to learn it from a coach who knows how to swim, rather then reading a manual of "How to swim". Infact that manual too, would be explained to you by your coach because you can never learn swimming by reading a manual. You can cram the manual by heart, you can read the manual everyday but you definitely need a coach if you really want to learn how to swim. Manual can be helpful only if their is a coach to explain the manual and teach you the techniques of swimming. But if you want to try it without a coach, then go ahead.

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Yes you "need" a living guru as much as you need a "highway robber" to relieve you of your valuables. NO Thanks...I already got the ETERNAL LIVING GURU...the SGGS which TEACHES the other "living" gurus that will die...leaving other gurus to fight over their deras.
1 Billion Christians can make do with Jesus who passed on 2000 years ago....500 million Buddhists are quite comfortable with Buddha who passed on 2500 years ago... 1 Billion Muslims are also OK with Muhammed who left this earth 1300 years ago...
BUT..we "SIKHS" "need" a living guru ?? To explain the Eternal GURU SGGS ??
Many millions of Pastors and popes dont become "living JESUS Son Of God " just because they explain the Bible..have the millions of Imams and Ayatollahs becom the "living Muhammed..the Last Prophet ??" How come one who merely explains the SGGS according to his own "limited MENTAL/Spiritual experience"..BECOMES the EQUAL of the SIKH GURUS ?? Something is wrong....if a mere "teacher" must be regarded as the "original". The Examples of Coach..etc are simplistic ...a "coach" is a simple teacher..once you have learnt to swim..the COACH is SUPERFLOUS...and one can get a new coach anytime..NOT SO the Radhasoami types of "gurus"..they are for LIFE..once they have got you hooked..you are theirs for life..no other "coach" will suffice. BEWARE.:welcome:

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

imho.....The title of this Thread is MISLEADING. SGGS is not " human-living" as in the sense implied. The SGGS also doesnt have the "needs" the human gurus have..financial mostly...but also vote banks manipulation for political masters, politics, etc etc.
It should be..Do you really need a "Human Guru" aka the Beas guru..sirsa guru..bhaniara guru... ??:yes:

Re: Sabh Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai, Guru Maaniyo Granth

kaur-1

I loved your example of a son going to canada and then his family back home recieves the letter, and that the letter is not just ink and paper. Then you wrote"The letter is the son talking to his parents in the form of ink and paper."You are absolutely right; its the son talking to his parents in the form of ink and paper.

And guru granth sahib are the gurus talking to us in the form of ink and paper. But in the guru granth sahib i could not find your favourite lines "Sabh Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai, Guru Maaniyo Granth,...." !!!

On the contrary, i found hundreds of lines in the praise of sadhus, sants, brahamgyanis etc. Not only this, at many places there are praises of the ones who are in the company of sadhus.

What do you have to say about this?

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

at giani jarnail singh ji,

You say that christian are okay with jesus who died 2000 years ago???
You feel that they are okay? no they are not. More than 50 percent of the christians all over the world, are becoming atheists or are inclined towards atheism because they are utterly bored of their religion. The churches are shutting down all over the world, their people are becoming more logical due to the science and technology, they feel that they dont need god. Infact most the atheists all over the world were once christians. Russia had a huge christian population and now most of it is atheist, they just dont give a damn thing about religion and you are saying that they are doing fine? I mean now the christian groups are converting poor people all over the world{even in india} to increase their numbers because they know that they are losing a large number of people, and you are telling me that they are doing fine? In US the atheist population is more than total number of the blacks, and you are saying that christians are okay? Christianity is losing its people, its faith, its values and you are saying that they are doing fine?

You dont know much about budhism. In budhism they still have enlightened masters in monastries and their ashrams. They still have the saints, who are of the calibre of gautama the buddha. The dalai lama is an example and they have many such masters in many of their monastries. You go to Tibet and you will find many monastries which still have a gurus as the head and they have a large number of disciples. Actually the budhism is the only intelligent religion, because they dont believe that only gautama budha was only enlightened person in the history and they have many budhas. BUDHA means an enlightened being, its is a quality of life, its the essence of god, and the people of this religion know this fact.

Then you mentioned ISLAM, ohh come on mister; the whole world knows that they are just a group of fanatic individuals, who just feel that any non-muslim is a culprit. They are the most aggresive and idiotic people. Just look around the world, i mean the bomb blasts, the killings, the kidnappings, the cruelity, the ugliness, you mean to say that they are doing fine??? They are not at all religious, their religion is dead long time back, right now its just insanity. Its extremely foolish to kill people in the name of religion. It simply prooves that you are way far away from religion, and you are saying that they are doing fine? that they are okay? No! they are not!

A saint is not a saint because he explains a holy book, he is a saint because of his inner experience of the infinite. A saint himself is the infinite. He does not die, because he is much more than his biological body. He himself is god. Havent you read in Sukhmani sahib,
BRAHAMGYANI SAB SRISHT KA KARTAA
BRAHAMGYANI SAD JEEVAY NAHI MARTAA
These lines are selfexplainatory, or should i explain.

then another lines i would mention here
BRAHAMGYANI KA SAGAL AKAAR
BRAHAMGYANI AAP NIRANKAR
The saint is infinite god, his body is very biological as ours, his body definitely dies, but his consciousness is what never dies, his infinite expanse is what allways remains.

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Sadhu ji

Buddhism does have a different view of "masters" and "sants." Sikhism does not buy into those views.

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Sadhu,

Guru Fateh.

I have no idea what your faith, religion or creed is nor am I curious about that because Sikhi is neither of the above but a way of life. I have seen you elbowing others whatever they say, you seem to find something wrong with them.

Please share your Gurmat wisdom with us and enrich us all. Share your ideas of what you think people are saying wrongly or incorrectly

Thanks & regards


Tejwant Singh

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

at Vaheguru seeker

Your name shows that you are a seeker, you want to know the eternal, you want to have a taste of it and that is so beautiful. I love to talk to the ones who are walking on the path, because the ones who are walking must have had a glimpse of the supreme ecstacy, that is the reason they are walking, because otherwise there is no reason to walk on this path. The ones who are walking are in a way chosen by the lord to walk, otherwise nobody walks. So vaheguru seeker, you are a very lucky person and i would definitely meet you when you have attained.

Dont worry much about my religion or creed, since I dont have any.

I do like to point out things that are actually irrational and idiotic.

I myself have got no wisdom of my own, so how can i share it with you? Whatever i say is the borrowed knowledge from different sources. Yes, i can share this knowledge, but i dont have any wisdom to share.

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

See the completley different approach taken by Guru nanak ji when faced by the Sidhs and rishis and sadhus.
Who are YOU..Whose follower YOU are and who is YOUR Guru ?
No beating about the proverbial bush..Guru Nanak Ji simply and clearly replies...DEFINITE CLEAR CUT UNAMBIGUOUS straight talk ANSWER. BTW the answers by Guru nanak Ji are in SIDH GHOST Bani....and there is a Thread on SPN on it right HERE. That is the Example we Sikhs should follow on a SIKH Forum .:happy:

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

I am so sorry for people who can't see Guruji in Guru Granth sahibji.
they didn't tried I guess.
May Guruji Bless them with his Vision.:yes:

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

prabhsmart said:

I am so sorry for people who can't see Guruji in Guru Granth sahibji.
they didn't tried I guess.
May Guruji Bless them with his Vision.:yes:

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Good for you Ji.

To ALL those "sikhs" ...and "Sants" and "wanna be sant followers"....and dehdharee guru seekers.... Guru nanak ji came...set up Gurmatt Paath....ahd nine successors to develop it fully and gave us His Pio Daddeh da Khazanah for KEEPS...in the SGGS. The JYOT of GURU NANAK-GURU GOBIND SINGH JI- GURU GRANTH JI....is ONE. JO PRABH ko mil bo chaheh KHOJ SHABAD mehN LEH....the SAME SHABAD that GURU NANAK JI declared to the Sidhs as HIS GURU....is with us in SGGS.

2. Many "SANTS" have said that they had the "privilege" of seeing in person..(Partakh Darshan) of GURU NANAK JI..or one of the other Gurus while doing paath of SGGS.)

I will ONLY SAY....when Guru Nanak Ji passed on His Gurtagadee to BHAI LEHNA JI...ALL his SIKHS inlcuding Bhai Buddha Ji...MATHA TEKED TO GURU ANGAD JI..in the PRESENCE OF GURU NANAK JI. A short time later Guru nanak ji departed from this Earth. NOT a single sikhs ever again mentioned that "he saw/partakh darshan" of the just departed GURU NANAK JI. WHY ?? Simply because GURU ANGAD JI was GURU. PERIOD. Even Guru nanak jis sons ddnt say they saw Guru nanak ji's SREER/partakh darshan etc..

SAME STORY after Guru Angad Ji....Gurta was passed to BHAI AMARDASS JI....Guru Angad Jis sons refused to acknowledge the New GURU..BUT they too Never claimed they saw "Guru Angad Ji"..... Same story after Guru Amardass Ji...the sons of Guru Amardass Ji even KICKED Guru ramdass ji but never claimed they saw Guru Amardass Ji..

SAME story for the Remaining successor GURUS...till 1708. THE GURU ON THE GURTA GADDEE WAS the ONE and ONLY GURU. Any SIKH could have Partakh Darshan of the REIGNING GURU ONLY. None "desired" or claimed otherwise ???

BUT NOW when it comes to the GURTA GADEE of SGGS.... we have so many "brahmgianis" claiming they saw and had partakh darshan of so and so Guru..so and so Guru came and ate the food he put there..blah blah blah. Did actual BRAHMGIANI Baba budha Ji also put "food" for Guru nanak ji to eat...say in Guru ramdass Jis presence ?? WHY NOT ??

SGGS is SAMPOORAN GURU in ALL ASPECTS. GURU NANAK JI gave His Gurtagadee to SGGS through Guru Gobind Singh Ji....Sabh Sikahn ko HUKM HAI..GURU maneyo GRANTH !! THEN WHY we have certian so called Brahmgianis hankering after the Partakh darshan of GURU Nanak JI ?? Are they trying to prove that they are special and can choose to have partakh darshan when NO other Brahmgiani from 1469-1800 tried this...
imho this is a SUBTLE ATTACK on the SAMPOORNTA OF SGGS !! Soemhow the SGGS doesnt satisfy them as much as "seeing the ???? of GURU NANAK JI" floating around eating their offered food. What does this apparition/partakh darshan have that the PARTAKH DARSHAN OF SGGS cannot give ?? Do they wnat to " feed" SGGS and failing that (possible ??) they INVENT the Floating Guru nanak ji eating it !! ( BUT IN PRIVATE..NOT in Pangat at the Gurdwara !!!!!!)

Somebody asked me...so did you have Partakh darshan of Guru gobind Singh ?? in Hemkunt ?? WHY ? I asked ? Is there any thing lacking in SGGS that I should ??SGGS is MY one and ONLY GURU..It has Everything. WHAT can a "PD" of GGS do for me that the Daily PD of SGGS i have cannot do ??

FROM Just "having Partakh Darshan" of DEHS of GURUS..other so called Brahmgianis PROGRESSED to ASSUMING the GURUDOM themsleves....why do you think the Sirsa saadh had the gall to dress up as and declare himself to be Guru gobind Singh Ji ?? Because Sikhs had come to accept such rubbish....until it crossed the limit.

Lets all go back to BASICS sanctioned by None other than Gru Gobind Singh ji in nanded 1708..GURU MANIYO GRANTH. PERIOD.:happy::welcome:

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

sadhu said:

Jazz
Your friend is correct. You have to find a living guru. Because only a living guru can explain what the guru granth sahib says. Otherwise how will you understand? Just like you need a guide to explain you a simple geaographical map, similarly you need a living guide to explain you the real meanings of gurugranth sahib; because only a guide knows the various signs, directions, routes and the bypasses on the map. If you think that you can manage without a guide, and just with a map you can reach enlightenment, then best of luck my friend.

Guru granth sahib is just like a map, its like a set of directions pointing towards your inner consciousness. Its a poetry of the ones who have known the eternal. Its a poetry of the ones who have tasted the tasteless; and a poetry is not an easy thing to understand. Poetry of even an ordinary poet is quite difficult to understand, then how can you make out what the ten gurus were trying to say?

If you want to know how to swim then its better to learn it from a coach who knows how to swim, rather then reading a manual of "How to swim". Infact that manual too, would be explained to you by your coach because you can never learn swimming by reading a manual. You can cram the manual by heart, you can read the manual everyday but you definitely need a coach if you really want to learn how to swim. Manual can be helpful only if their is a coach to explain the manual and teach you the techniques of swimming. But if you want to try it without a coach, then go ahead.

Click to expand...

Dear Sadhu Ji ,
IMHO if u ever in ur life devote some 60-70 hours trying to go through Prof.Sahib Singh Ji's GURU GRANTH DARPAN in Punjabi
http://www.gurugranthdarpan.com/
, u may get many times more enlightenment than ur so called BRAHMGIANI , SANT , SADH , MAHARAJ can ever hope to get in perhaps countless lives . I'm fully agreed to Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji's remarks that most of the problems & aims of these Dehdharis r financial . All ( no exceptions ) r running like well oiled corporations with deep contacts in Political parties so that their assets ( Votebank databases ) can be well harnessed . Election time is near in India , so it is season time again . See the following thread
SikhNet Discussion Forum • View topic - Radha Soami land grab
Don't pawn urself , your money & ur family to this PROFESSIONAL MAFIA ( LIVING GURUS ) because they are after all humans influenced by FIVE VICES . Who knows under their influence ( Kaam ,Krodh , Lobh , Moh , Ahankaar ) where these so-called LIVING GURUS going to lead u to ( which deep pit ) ?

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

at dalbirk and also at respected gyani jarnail singh ji

Don't pawn urself , your money & ur family to this PROFESSIONAL MAFIA ( LIVING GURUS ) because they are after all humans influenced by FIVE VICES . Who knows under their influence ( Kaam ,Krodh , Lobh , Moh , Ahankaar ) where these so-called LIVING GURUS going to lead u to ( which deep pit ) ?

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You say that the so called sadhs or sants are human beings, so stay away from them, then who were the ten gurus? They too were human beings, or tell me if they came from space?

1. Moreover i have not been able to locate one single line in gurugranth sahib that says that the granth is the supreme guru. Or a line that says only the ten gurus were the only saints on earth. Please help me to find these lines.
Then definitely i will agree to your point of view, because i only accept the point of view of guru granth sahib, and if you can show me something in gurugranth sahib of what you claim to be true, i would agree to it blindly.

2. And do me another favour, tell me the names of the people who have reached god and have attained god, by just reading gurugranth sahib.
Because i can give you names of hundreds of people who have attained without reading gurugranth sahib, and some of them have never even heard of gurugranth sahib, but they definitely had a living guru in their lives.

Please reply and be specific, i would appreciate if you dont drift away from my point of concern.

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

And do me another favour, tell me the names of the people who have reached god and have attained god, by just reading gurugranth sahib.
Because i can give you names of hundreds of people who have attained without reading gurugranth sahib, and some of them have never even heard of gurugranth sahib, but they definitely had a living guru in their lives.

Click to expand...

Wait a minute On another thread you are questioning existence of god and here you are saying that you know hundreds of people who have attained the god.Why so much contradiction in your posts

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

at kds1980

Wait a minute On another thread you are questioning existence of god and here you are saying that you know hundreds of people who have attained the god.Why so much contradiction in your posts

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Ohh yea,
I am very much contradictory, i dont care about contradictions, even if i am contradicting my own point. Consistency is boring to me, contradictions have life, because they make people to think.
Wait and see, you will find more contradicting posts from me in the future.

re: "Sab Sikhan Ko Hukam Hai Guru Manyo Granth" and the Roadhaswami

Sadhu Ji,

The Line that you seek ref the SGGS is in Sidh Ghost and quoted in my earlier post.
SHABAD is the GURU of Guru nanak Ji and the succeeding Gurus..and the SHABAD GURU is our GURU.
Althought there are many many more similar lines...this one suffices.
Like they say..daal wich ek dana toh liyeeda...you just need to just feel one pea in the soup...no need to squash every pea to know the soup is cooked....

All the Hundreds of thousands of MARTYRS who gave their lIVES for Sikhi from 1469- NOW..and Coming Centuries....are Living Proof of the SGGS/Khandeh batte Dee Pahul.

Neither the Sikh Gurus or the SGGS states that OURS is the ONLY WAY. So that negates any others who may have attained God...that is under His Hukm. Fore those who beleive in SGGS..the Shabad GURU is the ONLY WAY and ENOUGH.....

Thanks and stay in chardeekalla...good luck in finding your very own living master/sant/brahmgiani whatever....

:welcome: