Sidh Gosht - An Alternative Translation

Everywhere I look for an interpretation of Sidh Gosht I see the same English translation which I find confusing and which doesn't adequately get the message across. I thought it would be good to have a go at interpreting it with the SPN sangat to get a more in depth sense of what Guru Nanak Dev ji is telling us. It's written in a clever way with the Q&A but sometimes I struggle to know who is saying what! The conversation took place between Guru ji and a group of Sadhu's in the Himalaya's during Guru Ji's travels. He was quite young at the time so I think it was in his earlier travels. Q&A seems to suit our modern way of learning so that is why I'm especially drawn to this Bani.

Over the next few months I would love the SPN sangat to join me in looking at Sidh Gosht pauri by pauri then re-evaluating to get the bigger picture. Here I'll start off and would appreciate your thoughts so we can make sure our understanding is in the right direction and input as to how to implement the advice given would also be good.

I'm colour coding the posts. The bits I think are attributed to the Sidhs are in green and the line being said by Guru Nanak Dev ji are in blue for clarity. Please correct me if I have things the wrong way round.

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਸਿਧ ਗੋਸਟਿ raamkalee mehlaa 1 siDh gosat
Raamkalee, First Mehl, Sidh Gosht ~ Conversations With The Siddhas:
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥ ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਸਿਧਸਭਾਕਰਿਆਸਣਿਬੈਠੇਸੰਤਸਭਾਜੈਕਾਰੋ॥[/FONT]siDh sabhaa kar aasan baithay sant sabhaa jaikaaro.[/FONT]
The Siddhas formed an assembly; sitting in their Yogic postures, they shouted, "Salute this gathering of Saints."

ਤਿਸੁਆਗੈਰਹਰਾਸਿਹਮਾਰੀਸਾਚਾਅਪਰਅਪਾਰੋ॥ tis aagai rahraas hamaaree saachaa apar apaaro.
I offer my greeting only to the One who is true, infinite and incomparably beautiful.


ਮਸਤਕੁਕਾਟਿਧਰੀਤਿਸੁਆਗੈਤਨੁਮਨੁਆਗੈਦੇਉ॥mastak kaat Dharee tis aagai tan man aagai dayo.
I cut off my head, and offer it to God; I dedicate my body and mind to God.

ਨਾਨਕਸੰਤੁਮਿਲੈਸਚੁਪਾਈਐਸਹਜਭਾਇਜਸੁਲੇਉ॥੧[/FONT]॥ naanak sant milai sach paa-ee-ai sahj bhaa-ay jas lay-o. ||1||
O Nanak, meeting with the THE "SAINT", Truth is obtained, and one is spontaneously blessed with distinction. ||1||


ਕਿਆਭਵੀਐਸਚਿਸੂਚਾਹੋਇ॥ Kiaa Bhaveeai Sach Soochaa Hoe ||
What is the use of wandering around? Purity comes only through Truth.

ਸਾਚਸਬਦਬਿਨੁਮੁਕਤਿਨਕੋਇ॥ ੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥ Saach Sabadh Bin Mukath N Koe ||1||
Without the True Word of the Shabad, no one finds liberation. ||1||Pause||

Guru Nanak Dev ji is saying that God is the true saint (as differentiated by the spelling-one contains an aunkar, the other doesn't).


ਕਵਨਤੁਮੇਕਿਆਨਾਉਤੁਮਾਰਾਕਉਨੁਮਾਰਗੁਕਉਨੁਸੁਆਓ॥ Kavan Thumae Kiaa Naao Thumaaraa Koun Maarag Koun Suaaou ||
"Who are you? What is your name? What is your path? What is your goal?

ਸਾਚੁਕਹਉਅਰਦਾਸਿਹਮਾਰੀਹਉਸੰਤਜਨਾਬਲਿਜਾਓ॥ Saach Keho Aradhaas Hamaaree Ho Santh Janaa Bal Jaaou ||
I am always firm in my devotion to God. I do ardaas that I may remain a sacrifice to the tru saint (Waheguru). This is my truth. This is my path.

ਕਹਬੈਸਹੁਕਹਰਹੀਐਬਾਲੇਕਹਆਵਹੁਕਹਜਾਹੋ॥ Keh Baisahu Keh Reheeai Baalae Keh Aavahu Keh Jaaho ||
Where is your seat? Where do you live, boy? Where did you come from, and where are you going?

ਨਾਨਕੁਬੋਲੈਸੁਣਿਬੈਰਾਗੀਕਿਆਤੁਮਾਰਾਰਾਹੋ॥ ੨॥ Naanak Bolai Sun Bairaagee Kiaa Thumaaraa Raaho ||2||
Tell us, Nanak - the detached Siddhas wait to hear your reply. What is your path?""||2||

Notice the tone of the language used by the Sidhs. Boy is very condescending. The world still has this culture of looking down on young people as not being knowledgeable.


ਘਟਿਘਟਿਬੈਸਿਨਿਰੰਤਰਿਰਹੀਐਚਾਲਹਿਸਤਿਗੁਰਭਾਏ॥ Ghatt Ghatt Bais Niranthar Reheeai Chaalehi Sathigur Bhaaeae ||
He dwells deep within the nucleus of each and every body. My home is constant remembrance of the almighty True Guru (Waheguru).

ਸਹਜੇਆਏਹੁਕਮਿਸਿਧਾਏਨਾਨਕਸਦਾਰਜਾਏ॥ Sehajae Aaeae Hukam Sidhhaaeae Naanak Sadhaa Rajaaeae ||
We walk according to the Will of Akaal Purakh. We came into the world sleeping according to God and we travel through life according to God. I am Nanak, forever under the Command of His Will.

ਆਸਣਿਬੈਸਣਿਥਿਰੁਨਾਰਾਇਣੁਐਸੀਗੁਰਮਤਿਪਾਏ॥ Aasan Baisan Thhir Naaraaein Aisee Guramath Paaeae ||
The true sitting yoga posture is keeping complete understanding inside always.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਬੂਝੈਆਪੁਪਛਾਣੈਸਚੇਸਚਿਸਮਾਏ॥੩॥ Guramukh Boojhai Aap Pashhaanai Sachae Sach Samaaeae ||3||
The Gurmukh recognises themself and merges with the true Guru, ie recognises the ego and is able to overcome it.

:whatzpointkudi::whatzpointsing::feedback:

findingmyway ji

I will find my Sikh Missionary College interpretation, and try my best to contribute to this. Great endeavor.

Funny how the threads about controversies get lots of responses but gurbani vichaar not many! Oh well! I will continue and hope that one day someone will help me connect to and understand Gurbani!

From Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji starting Ang 938-939[/FONT]
[/FONT]
Green = sidhs (human) Blue = Guru Nanak Dev ji’s reply[/FONT]

[/FONT]
ਦੁਨੀਆ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਦੁਤਰੁ ਕਹੀਐ ਕਿਉ ਕਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਪਾਰੋ ॥[/FONT] Dhuneeaa Saagar Dhuthar Keheeai Kio Kar Paaeeai Paaro ||
The world-ocean is treacherous and impassable; how can one cross over?

ਚਰਪਟੁ ਬੋਲੈ ਅਉਧੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਹੁ ਸਚਾ ਬੀਚਾਰੋ ॥ [/FONT]Charapatt Bolai Aoudhhoo Naanak Dhaehu Sachaa Beechaaro ||
Charpat the Yogi says, O Nanak, think it over, and give us a correct response.

Notice the language. Charpat is not wanting to have a discussion (equal input from all) but is testing Guru Nanak.

ਆਪੇ ਆਖੈ ਆਪੇ ਸਮਝੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਕਿਆ ਉਤਰੁ ਦੀਜੈ ॥ [/FONT]Aapae Aakhai Aapae Samajhai This Kiaa Outhar Dheejai ||
There is no need to answer the person who says that he himself has understood and knows the answers.

ਸਾਚੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਤੁਮ ਪਾਰਗਰਾਮੀ ਤੁਝੁ ਕਿਆ ਬੈਸਣੁ ਦੀਜੈ ॥[/FONT]੪॥ [/FONT]Saach Kehahu Thum Paaragaraamee Thujh Kiaa Baisan Dheejai ||4||
For this reason there is no need to find fault with your question-one who is firm in their devotion to Akal Purakh will cross over the World ocean.

ਜੈਸੇ ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਨਿਰਾਲਮੁ ਮੁਰਗਾਈ ਨੈ ਸਾਣੇ ॥[/FONT] Jaisae Jal Mehi Kamal Niraalam Muragaaee Nai Saanae ||
Just like the lotus flower that grows from the water remains spectacular floats untouched upon the surface of the water, and the duck swims through the stream; (these things are not tainted by the water surrounding them)

ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਤਰੀਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਾਣੇ ॥[/FONT] Surath Sabadh Bhav Saagar Thareeai Naanak Naam Vakhaanae ||
One who immerses their consciousness in naam and focused on the Shabad, they can cross over the terrifying world-ocean. O Nanak, chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

ਰਹਹਿ ਇਕਾਂਤਿ ਏਕੋ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਆਸਾ ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਰਾਸੋ ॥[/FONT] Rehehi Eikaanth Eaeko Man Vasiaa Aasaa Maahi Niraaso ||
One who feels disappointed with worldly hopes, the one whose mind stays connected with Waheguru (being in the world are still not affected by the world) are true hermits.

ਅਗਮੁ ਅਗੋਚਰੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਦਿਖਾਏ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਦਾਸੋ ॥[/FONT]੫॥[/FONT] Agam Agochar Dhaekh Dhikhaaeae Naanak Thaa Kaa Dhaaso ||5||
One who sees and inspires others to see the inaccessible, unfathomable Lord, Nanak is his slave. ||5||

ਸੁਣਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਪੂਛਉ ਸਾਚੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੋ ॥[/FONT] ਰੋਸੁ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ਉਤਰੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਕਿਉ ਪਾਈਐ ਗੁਰ ਦੁਆਰੋ ॥[/FONT] Sun Suaamee Aradhaas Hamaaree Pooshho Saach Beechaaro || Ros N Keejai Outhar Dheejai Kio Paaeeai Gur Dhuaaro ||
O Swami, please listen to my request. I ask for the correct interpretation. Don't be angry with me – answer this: How can we find the Guru's Door?

This time they referred to Guru Nanak as swami so the tone is becoming warmer and more respectful

ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਚਲਤਉ ਸਚ ਘਰਿ ਬੈਸੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੋ ॥ [/FONT]ਆਪੇ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਾਏ ਕਰਤਾ ਲਾਗੈ ਸਾਚਿ ਪਿਆਰੋ ॥[/FONT]੬॥[/FONT] Eihu Man Chalatho Sach Ghar Baisai Naanak Naam Adhhaaro || Aapae Mael Milaaeae Karathaa Laagai Saach Piaaro ||6||
This restless mind remains in remembrance of Akaal Purakh, O Nanak, Naam becomes the meaning of life. This level of love can only be achieved if the creator itself causes it.

ਹਾਟੀ ਬਾਟੀ ਰਹਹਿ ਨਿਰਾਲੇ ਰੂਖਿ ਬਿਰਖਿ ਉਦਿਆਨੇ ॥ [/FONT]ਕੰਦ ਮੂਲੁ ਅਹਾਰੋ ਖਾਈਐ ਅਉਧੂ ਬੋਲੈ ਗਿਆਨੇ ॥[/FONT]
Haattee Baattee Rehehi Niraalae Rookh Birakh Oudhiaanae || Kandh Mool Ahaaro Khaaeeai Aoudhhoo Bolai Giaanae ||
Away from stores and highways, we live in the woods, among plants and trees. For food, we take fruits and roots. This is the spiritual wisdom spoken by the renunciates.

ਤੀਰਥਿ ਨਾਈਐ ਸੁਖੁ ਫਲੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਲਾਗੈ ਕਾਈ ॥[/FONT] Theerathh Naaeeai Sukh Fal Paaeeai Mail N Laagai Kaaee ||
We bathe at sacred shrines of pilgrimage, and obtain the fruits of peace; not even an iota of filth sticks to us.

ਗੋਰਖ ਪੂਤੁ ਲੋਹਾਰੀਪਾ ਬੋਲੈ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਬਿਧਿ ਸਾਈ ॥[/FONT]੭॥ [/FONT]Gorakh Pooth Lohaareepaa Bolai Jog Jugath Bidhh Saaee ||7||
Luhaareepaa, the disciple of Gorakh says, this is the Way of Yoga.""||7||

To be continued....

Next part. Please correct me if I have things wrong....

Ang 939

ਹਾਟੀ ਬਾਟੀ ਨੀਦ ਨ ਆਵੈ ਪਰ ਘਰਿ ਚਿਤੁ ਨ ਡ+ਲਾਈ ॥[/FONT] ਬਿਨੁ ਨਾਵੈ ਮਨੁ ਟੇਕ ਨ ਟਿਕਈ ਨਾਨਕ ਭੂਖ ਨ ਜਾਈ ॥[/FONT] Haattee Baattee Needh N Aavai Par Ghar Chith N Dduolaaee || Bin Naavai Man Ttaek N Ttikee Naanak Bhookh N Jaaee ||
The truth is that those who live in the world can’t sleep and they must not become engrossed by the world or let their mind wander to the neighbour’s house. Without the Name, the mind has no firm support and the illusion of maya doesn’t move away; O Nanak, this hunger never departs.


ਡ+ਲਾਈ = [/FONT]ਅੱਖਰ '[/FONT]ਡ' [/FONT]ਦੇ [/FONT]ਨਾਲ [/FONT]ਦੋ '[/FONT]ਲਗਾਂ' [/FONT]ਹਨ, ([/FONT]ੋ) [/FONT]ਅਤੇ ([/FONT]ੁ)[/FONT]।[/FONT] [/FONT]ਲਫ਼ਜ਼ [/FONT]ਦੀ [/FONT]ਅਸਲ '[/FONT]ਲਗ' ([/FONT]ੋ) [/FONT]ਹੈ, [/FONT]ਪਰ [/FONT]ਇਥੇ [/FONT]ਛੰਦ [/FONT]ਦੀ [/FONT]ਚਾਲ [/FONT]ਨੂੰ [/FONT]ਪੂਰਾ [/FONT]ਰੱਖਣ [/FONT]ਲਈ ([/FONT]ੁ) [/FONT]ਪੜ੍ਹਨਾ [/FONT]ਹੈ।[/FONT]


ਹਾਟੁ ਪਟਣੁ ਘਰੁ ਗੁਰੂ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ਸਹਜੇ ਸਚੁ ਵਾਪਾਰੋ ॥[/FONT] ਖੰਡਿਤ ਨਿਦ੍ਰਾ ਅਲਪ ਅਹਾਰੰ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਤੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੋ ॥[/FONT]੮॥[/FONT] Haatt Pattan Ghar Guroo Dhikhaaeiaa Sehajae Sach Vaapaaro || Khanddith Nidhraa Alap Ahaaran Naanak Thath Beechaaro ||8|
The person who instils the true Guru (Waheguru’s) Naam, that person stays separated from the city and from home to work the Naam. That person sleeps little and eats little so escapes from temptation O Nanak.

ਦਰਸਨੁ ਭੇਖ ਕਰਹੁ ਜੋਗਿੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਮੁੰਦ੍ਰਾ ਝੋਲੀ ਖਿੰਥਾ ॥[/FONT] ਬਾਰਹ ਅੰਤਰਿ ਏਕੁ ਸਰੇਵਹੁ ਖਟੁ ਦਰਸਨ ਇਕ ਪੰਥਾ ॥[/FONT] ਇਨ ਬਿਧਿ ਮਨੁ ਸਮਝਾਈਐ ਪੁਰਖਾ ਬਾਹੁੜਿ ਚੋਟ ਨ ਖਾਈਐ ॥[/FONT] Dharasan Bhaekh Karahu Jogindhraa Mundhraa Jholee Khinthhaa || Baareh Anthar Eaek Saraevahu Khatt Dharasan Eik Panthhaa || Ein Bidhh Man Samajhaaeeai Purakhaa Baahurr Chott N Khaaeeai ||
The Yogi continues; among the 6 schools of philosophy, there are 12 groups (panths) of yogis. Out of them acknowledge and accept our sect by wearing our distinctive robes, patched shirt, ear-rings and begging wallet. This is the way to instruct the mind, so you will never suffer beatings due to maya again.

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬੋਲੈ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਜੋਗ ਜੁਗਤਿ ਇਵ ਪਾਈਐ ॥[/FONT]੯॥[/FONT] Naanak Bolai Guramukh Boojhai Jog Jugath Eiv Paaeeai ||9||
Nanak speaks: the Gurmukh tries to understand the shackles of their mind; this is the way that Yoga is attained. ||9||

The sidh’s sound a little arrogant! They think they are noble by running away whereas Guru Nanak proposes mixing with the world and understanding the mind to escape from maya. This is expanded on next.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਸਬਦੁ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ਮੁਦ੍ਰਾ ਹਉਮੈ ਮਮਤਾ ਦੂਰਿ ਕਰੀ ॥[/FONT] Anthar Sabadh Niranthar Mudhraa Houmai Mamathaa Dhoor Karee ||
Let constant absorption in the Word of the Shabad deep within be your ear-rings; that is the way to eradicate egotism and attachment.

ਕਾਮੁ ਕ੍ਰੋਧੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ਨਿਵਾਰੈ ਗੁਰ ਕੈ ਸਬਦਿ ਸੁ ਸਮਝ ਪਰੀ ॥[/FONT] Kaam Krodhh Ahankaar Nivaarai Gur Kai Sabadh S Samajh Paree ||
Discard lust, anger and egotism, and through the Word of the Guru's Shabad, true understanding is achieved.

ਖਿੰਥਾ ਝੋਲੀ ਭਰਿਪੁਰਿ ਰਹਿਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਤਾਰੈ ਏਕੁ ਹਰੀ ॥[/FONT] Khinthhaa Jholee Bharipur Rehiaa Naanak Thaarai Eaek Haree ||
For your patched coat and begging bowl, see Akaal Purakh pervading and permeating everywhere; O Nanak, Waheguru will carry you across the world ocean in this way.

ਸਾਚਾ ਸਾਹਿਬੁ ਸਾਚੀ ਨਾਈ ਪਰਖੈ ਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਬਾਤ ਖਰੀ ॥[/FONT]੧੦॥[/FONT] Saachaa Saahib Saachee Naaee Parakhai Gur Kee Baath Kharee ||10||
With the help of the true shabad from Satguru (Akal Purakh), the Gurmukh reaches the conclusion that Waheguru saves us from the pain of duality and Akal Purakh is ever present and the greatness is always there.

ਊਂਧਉ ਖਪਰੁ ਪੰਚ ਭੂ ਟੋਪੀ ॥[/FONT] Oonadhho Khapar Panch Bhoo Ttopee ||
The person who is walking along the Guru’s path and is ever attached to Naam, lets the mind turn away in detachment from the world and uses this as the begging bowl. Let the lessons of the virtues of the five elements be your cap (the non-attachment of the sky, fire’s ability to get rid of dirt, sagacity and equality of the wind, waters calmness, patience and steadfastness of the earth).

ਕਾਂਇਆ ਕੜਾਸਣੁ ਮਨੁ ਜਾਗੋਟੀ ॥[/FONT] Kaaneiaa Karraasan Man Jaagottee ||
Let keeping the body pure be your meditation mat, and controlling the mind be your loin cloth.

ਸਤੁ ਸੰਤੋਖੁ ਸੰਜਮੁ ਹੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥[/FONT] Sath Santhokh Sanjam Hai Naal ||
Let truth, contentment and self-discipline be your companions.

ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਲਿ ॥[/FONT]੧੧॥[/FONT] Naanak Guramukh Naam Samaal ||11||
O Nanak, the Gurmukh dwells on the Naam.|

Findingmyway Ji..
I laughed at your comment on controversies vs gurbani.....its liek saying why so few can teach/study/or even interested in advanced calculus...Metaphysics..etc etc while LOTS and Lots rush to read the Sunday mail..esp Page 3 !! GURBANI is heavy stuff..while people love the "snacks" instant gratification...light entertainment...ha ha

Enough of this..I am also going back to have a second (and many more after that) look at the thread posts....am enjoying this...thank you.cheerleader

I want to say the same thing. This thread is for me a rare moment in time when something thrilling can happen, something that engages my need to benefit from sound gurmat instincts of other members. We are here to learn from one another, and teach one another.

Sikhi embraces the world, including controversies and hardships. To ignore and avoid confronting the world ocean is coward's work. But........... what are our tools? The answer is Sri Guru Granth Sahib. So there should never be a time when the study of gurmat is ignored.

I am reading. Keep up the good work.

Just some further thoughts on the above. The passage here really stresses the importance of a grisht jeevan

ਜੈਸੇਜਲਮਹਿਕਮਲੁਨਿਰਾਲਮੁਮੁਰਗਾਈਨੈਸਾਣੇ[FONT="]॥[/FONT] Jaisae Jal Mehi Kamal Niraalam Muragaaee Nai Saanae ||
Reference:: Sikh Philosophy Network http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/showthread.php?t=34825
Just like the lotus flower that grows from the water remains spectacular floats untouched upon the surface of the water, and the duck swims through the stream; (these things are not tainted by the water surrounding them)

ਸੁਰਤਿਸਬਦਿਭਵਸਾਗਰੁਤਰੀਐਨਾਨਕਨਾਮੁਵਖਾਣੇ[FONT="]॥[/FONT] Surath Sabadh Bhav Saagar Thareeai Naanak Naam Vakhaanae ||
One who immerses their consciousness in naam and focused on the Shabad, they can cross over the terrifying world-ocean. O Nanak, chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

ਰਹਹਿਇਕਾਂਤਿਏਕੋਮਨਿਵਸਿਆਆਸਾਮਾਹਿਨਿਰਾਸੋ[FONT="]॥[/FONT] Rehehi Eikaanth Eaeko Man Vasiaa Aasaa Maahi Niraaso ||
One who feels disappointed with worldly hopes, the one whose mind stays connected with Waheguru (being in the world are still not affected by the world) are true hermits.

ਅਗਮੁਅਗੋਚਰੁਦੇਖਿਦਿਖਾਏਨਾਨਕੁਤਾਕਾਦਾਸੋ[FONT="]॥[/FONT]੫[FONT="]॥[/FONT] Agam Agochar Dhaekh Dhikhaaeae Naanak Thaa Kaa Dhaaso ||5||
One who sees and inspires others to see the inaccessible, unfathomable Lord, Nanak is his slave. ||5||

Click to expand...

The true hermit is one who lives in the world yet isn't taken over by it just like the water lily or duck are not completely overwhelmed by the water that surrounds them. Such amazing imagery! Guru ji also gives us the reason why living in the world and not running away is important-although you can reach the state of spiritual enlightenment away from the world it is a selfish spirituality as you cannot help others. Therefore the spirituality from living in the world is the real thing and very important.

A soldier who leaves the battlefield is not a soldier no matter how good he is at archery, horse riding, swordmanship....its ONLY on the battlefiled that a good soldier can show how good he is. A Sikh has to live among his peers, in society and face the "enemies" of lobh moh, attachment, haumai, hankaar, kaam, lust, greed, the FIVE ENEMIES have to be FOUGHT on the BATTLEFIELD. Gurbani elsewhere also tells us very clearly...MY GURU has Given me a "Pat" on my back..THAPPRRA and sent me INTO THE BATTLEGROUND to fight them. Thus its clear that Guru Ji never accepts the idea of renunciation/brahmchareeism/poverty/abstinence/going away to caves and forests to achieve spirituality etc etc..of what use is such spiritual prowess because its in ISOLATION..akin to a Don Quixote type fighting windmills which cannot fight back. Bhai GHANIYAH JI..who is not even a Fighting soldier in that sense...is also present on the BATTLEFIELD as his work is also best done there and not in isolation.Bhai Ghnaiyah Ji ahs to FACE the "ENEMY"..and overcome the natural instinct to DENY him water and let his SPIRITUAL STRENGTH overpower that raw instinct..and Guru Ji further strengthened that Spiritual Power by giving bhai Ghaniyah Ji a Medical Kit to treat the enemy/foes/friends alike besides providing cool water. Only one who firmly beleives in his conviction..Na Ko Beri nahin Beganna..sagal hum ko Bann aiyee...manas ki jaat sabh eko pehchanbo..all humans as one brotherhood..all as friend and none as enemy..can prove this in an ACTUAL SITUATION and never in isolation.

findingmyway said:

Just some further thoughts on the above. The passage here really stresses the importance of a grisht jeevan


The true hermit is one who lives in the world yet isn't taken over by it just like the water lily or duck are not completely overwhelmed by the water that surrounds them. Such amazing imagery! Guru ji also gives us the reason why living in the world and not running away is important-although you can reach the state of spiritual enlightenment away from the world it is a selfish spirituality as you cannot help others. Therefore the spirituality from living in the world is the real thing and very important.

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findingmyway ji just to update, I will work through this and then edit this post of mine (remove some of the sillies).

Get the brick and stones ready to toss at me.

First attempt with due humility and ready to be criticized, commented upon, etc.

My first draft in Red. Written in a style of conversational understanding with reference to Professor Sahib Singh ji's Darpan and Singh Sahib Sant Singh Khalsa ji's translation (in Black).

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਸਿਧ ਗੋਸਟਿ
Raamkalee, First Mehl, Sidh Gosht ~ Conversations With The Siddhas:
Raag Raamkalee, Guru Nanak, Sidh Gosht

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:
Through blessing of one true creator and true word.

ਸਿਧ ਸਭਾ ਕਰਿ ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਠੇ ਸੰਤ ਸਭਾ ਜੈਕਾਰੋ ॥
The Siddhas formed an assembly; sitting in their Yogic postures, they shouted, "Salute this gathering of Saints."
In a gathering to find truth, the pious are attentively and respectfully seated.

ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਰਹਰਾਸਿ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਸਾਚਾ ਅਪਰ ਅਪਾਰੋ ॥
I offer my salutation to the One who is true, infinite and incomparably beautiful.
Our prayer is to the the ever present truthful creator.

ਮਸਤਕੁ ਕਾਟਿ ਧਰੀ ਤਿਸੁ ਆਗੈ ਤਨੁ ਮਨੁ ਆਗੈ ਦੇਉ ॥
I cut off my head, and offer it to Him; I dedicate my body and mind to Him.
The head, the body and mind is offered to the true gathering.

ਨਾਨਕ ਸੰਤੁ ਮਿਲੈ ਸਚੁ ਪਾਈਐ ਸਹਜ ਭਾਇ ਜਸੁ ਲੇਉ ॥੧॥
O Nanak, meeting with the Saints, Truth is obtained, and one is spontaneously blessed with distinction. ||1||
Nanak, easy is the truth and recounting of virtues in company of the pious.||1||

ਕਿਆ ਭਵੀਐ ਸਚਿ ਸੂਚਾ ਹੋਇ ॥
What is the use of wandering around? Purity comes only through Truth.
Truly, can you find truth through wandering!

ਸਾਚ ਸਬਦ ਬਿਨੁ ਮੁਕਤਿ ਨ ਕੋਇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
Without the True Word of the Shabad, no one finds liberation. ||1||Pause||
Only the true words bring you salvation.

ਕਵਨ ਤੁਮੇ ਕਿਆ ਨਾਉ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ਕਉਨੁ ਮਾਰਗੁ ਕਉਨੁ ਸੁਆਓ ॥
"Who are you? What is your name? What is your way? What is your goal?
Who art thou, thy name, thy path and thy destination.

ਸਾਚੁ ਕਹਉ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਹਉ ਸੰਤ ਜਨਾ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਓ ॥
We pray that you will answer us truthfully; we are a sacrifice to the humble Saints.
My prayer to the eternal truth and I am blessed in pious company.

ਕਹ ਬੈਸਹੁ ਕਹ ਰਹੀਐ ਬਾਲੇ ਕਹ ਆਵਹੁ ਕਹ ਜਾਹੋ ॥
Where is your seat? Where do you live, boy? Where did you come from, and where are you going?
Child, where you stay, where you live and where you come from and go!

ਨਾਨਕੁ ਬੋਲੈ ਸੁਣਿ ਬੈਰਾਗੀ ਕਿਆ ਤੁਮਾਰਾ ਰਾਹੋ ॥੨॥
Tell us, Nanak - the detached Siddhas wait to hear your reply. What is your path?"||2||
Nanak says, the pious one, pray tell what is your way! ||2||


ਘਟਿ ਘਟਿ ਬੈਸਿ ਨਿਰੰਤਰਿ ਰਹੀਐ ਚਾਲਹਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਭਾਏ ॥
He dwells deep within the nucleus of each and every heart. This is my seat and my home. I walk in harmony with the Will of the True Guru.
With the ever imbued creator in all, the path is as per thou wishes.

ਸਹਜੇ ਆਏ ਹੁਕਮਿ ਸਿਧਾਏ ਨਾਨਕ ਸਦਾ ਰਜਾਏ ॥
I came from the Celestial Lord God; I go wherever He orders me to go. I am Nanak, forever under the Command of His Will.
Peacefully living in consonance from beginning and in thou wishes.

ਆਸਣਿ ਬੈਸਣਿ ਥਿਰੁ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਐਸੀ ਗੁਰਮਤਿ ਪਾਏ ॥
I sit in the posture of the eternal, imperishable Lord. These are the Teachings I have received from the Guru.
The ever attentively postured, ever present is the truthfulness I found.

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਬੂਝੈ ਆਪੁ ਪਛਾਣੈ ਸਚੇ ਸਚਿ ਸਮਾਏ ॥੩॥
As Gurmukh, I have come to understand and realize myself; I merge in the Truest of the True. ||3||
Gurmukh, searches, recognizes and becomes one with the truth.||3||

ਦੁਨੀਆ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਦੁਤਰੁ ਕਹੀਐ ਕਿਉ ਕਰਿ ਪਾਈਐ ਪਾਰੋ ॥
"The world-ocean is treacherous and impassable; how can one cross over?
The world is known as difficult ocean, how one gets to the other side!

ਚਰਪਟੁ ਬੋਲੈ ਅਉਧੂ ਨਾਨਕ ਦੇਹੁ ਸਚਾ ਬੀਚਾਰੋ ॥
Charpat the Yogi says, O Nanak, think it over, and give us your true reply."
Charpat says Oh resourceful Nanak, tell me the truth.

ਆਪੇ ਆਖੈ ਆਪੇ ਸਮਝੈ ਤਿਸੁ ਕਿਆ ਉਤਰੁ ਦੀਜੈ ॥
What answer can I give to someone, who claims to understand himself?
One who asks and knows, what answer can I give him!

ਸਾਚੁ ਕਹਹੁ ਤੁਮ ਪਾਰਗਰਾਮੀ ਤੁਝੁ ਕਿਆ ਬੈਸਣੁ ਦੀਜੈ ॥੪॥
I speak the Truth; if you have already crossed over, how can I argue with you? ||4||
I say, you already reached the destination, why should I dispute.||4||

ਜੈਸੇ ਜਲ ਮਹਿ ਕਮਲੁ ਨਿਰਾਲਮੁ ਮੁਰਗਾਈ ਨੈ ਸਾਣੇ ॥
The lotus flower floats untouched upon the surface of the water, and the duck swims through the stream;
Just as in water, the Lotus flower stays wonderous and the swan stays dry

ਸੁਰਤਿ ਸਬਦਿ ਭਵ ਸਾਗਰੁ ਤਰੀਐ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਵਖਾਣੇ ॥
with one's consciousness focused on the Word of the Shabad, one crosses over the terrifying world-ocean. O Nanak, chant the Naam, the Name of the Lord.
Hey Nanak so it be seen that, with attentive true understanding, the terrifying ocean can be traversed.

ਰਹਹਿ ਇਕਾਂਤਿ ਏਕੋ ਮਨਿ ਵਸਿਆ ਆਸਾ ਮਾਹਿ ਨਿਰਾਸੋ ॥
One who lives alone, as a hermit, enshrining the One Lord in his mind, remaining unaffected by hope in the midst of hope,
With one truth in mind, the hopes and hopelessness don’t affect.

ਅਗਮੁ ਅਗੋਚਰੁ ਦੇਖਿ ਦਿਖਾਏ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਾ ਕਾ ਦਾਸੋ ॥੫॥
sees and inspires others to see the inaccessible, unfathomable Lord. Nanak is his slave. ||5||
Having realized the hard to reach and understand, Nanak is in servitude.||5||

ਸੁਣਿ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਅਰਦਾਸਿ ਹਮਾਰੀ ਪੂਛਉ ਸਾਚੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੋ ॥
"Listen, Lord, to our prayer. We seek your true opinion.
Listen the learned one, I ask of you for your truthful consideration.

ਰੋਸੁ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ਉਤਰੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਕਿਉ ਪਾਈਐ ਗੁਰ ਦੁਆਰੋ ॥
Don't be angry with us - please tell us: How can we find the Guru's Door?"
Don’t frown but answer, how do we find the door to the true word?

ਇਹੁ ਮਨੁ ਚਲਤਉ ਸਚ ਘਰਿ ਬੈਸੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਅਧਾਰੋ ॥
This fickle mind sits in its true home, O Nanak, through the Support of the Naam, the Name of the Lord.
Nanak submits, once the truth is discovered the mind finds abode there.

ਆਪੇ ਮੇਲਿ ਮਿਲਾਏ ਕਰਤਾ ਲਾਗੈ ਸਾਚਿ ਪਿਆਰੋ ॥੬॥
The Creator Himself unites us in Union, and inspires us to love the Truth. ||6||
Such are introduced by the creator and thereafter are in love with the truth.||6||

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Please correct and help me understand and either go on with more or pass the baton to someone else.

Sat Sri Akal.

findingmyway ji,

This is just marvelous.

Keep up the devotion.

The Great Guru will show the path.

Those who are destined, shall find the truth by sitting down and reciting His Name.

Those who are not, shall ever be roaming aimlessly and endlessly in the dus disha -ten cardinal directions of this world.

i would like to share this article on sidh gosht by giani lal singh, published in 'eternal voice', a quarterly journal published by the kalgidhar trust, baru sahib.:

website of eternal voice magazine: www.eternalvoice.in

The Sidh Gosht is complete in thought, content and a model example of form. It is highly appropriate to regard it as perfect philosophic creation. Its style and structure are classical and sublime. This Bani is deep, mature, suggestive and symbolic because the technical vocabulary used here is built on the basic knowledge available on the Yoga cult.

Ramkali is a favorite Raga of the Yogis. It is in this raga that the Sidh Gosht of Guru Nanak has been composed.

This Bani comprises of 73 verses. Each verse contains six lines. The subject has been introduced in the very beginning and in the very first verse, the Rahao (Pause) couplet which points out to the central meaning, is as under:

Ki-aa bhavee-ai sach soochaa ho-ai Saach sabad bin mukat na ko-ai. (938)
(What is the use of wandering? Purification can be attained through Truth alone and without the word of the True Lord, no one can achieve salvation.)

During the periods of his Udasis (missionary travels), Guru Nanak held discussion with Saints, Sadhus, Faqirs, Darveshas, Sidhas and Yogis. The dominant note was that without the realization of the 'Word' (Shabad), all these sects are mere superstitions. In all these discussions, Guru Nanak has presented himself as the main exponent of his views. This role of his is quite distinct and prominent in the Bani. In the Janamsakhis (biographies), we find a number of narratives regarding his discussions with the Sidhas during his life, the important among these being the ones held at Sumer Parbat and Achal Batala. Arriving at the truth through dialogue is a pretty old method in the philosophic thought of the world. Even the modern scientific thinking accepts it as a fit medium to encompass the truth. In the Western world the Dialogues of Plato, the famous philosopher, are well known. In our own cultural history we find such dialogues, in the Buddhist and Jain scriptures; the Bhagvad Gita and the Upanishads. In North India, this method for spiritual discourses became all the more popular with the flourishing of the Yoga sect. The Gorakh- Machhandar dialogue is a famous composition in the

Yoga literature. Guru Nanak owned this special poetic form of prevalent religious cultures and proved his complete understanding and full mystery of the culture.

Out of this clash of ideas and through an understanding of the contemporary consciousness, he brought out that aspect of Truth which is relevant to his times.

In this sublime composition, there are some parts which are taken from actual discussions and expanded imaginatively after reconsideration of thought. The practices, paths, philosophies and forms of various Yoga sects are an important part and parcel of medieval Indian culture. The significance of these sects from both the angles, of practice and realization, is established without doubt.

In the sacred Sikh scriptures, the Yoga has been discussed not with a view to condemn it, but to ascribe new and proper meanings to various Yoga symbols and lines of thought.
The living essence of this great treasure of Yoga, which has been attained after arduous practice and mental struggle, is accepted with new orientation and the hollow ritualism has been condemned in an appropriate manner. So much so that renunciation, pilgrimages to holy places and holy Ashrams, silent Samadhi (deep meditation), communion, spiritual detachment etc. have been placed in a new perspective.

An introvert, Hatthyogic and renouncing tendency has been converted into a strong desire for Sehaj Yoga (normal, balanced way of life) through meditation according to the path shown by the Guru and through the grace of God. In fact, great exponents of Yoga like Gorakhnath were also turning from its outer symbols to its inner significance. As such, the
Sidh Gosht, which is incorporated in the holy Granth and Pran Sangali, which has not been included therein, add new chapters to the exposition and critical analysis of the Yoga thought in Indian philosophy and leads us to final conclusions on the subject. The Sidh Gosht is complete in thought, content and a model example of form. It is highly appropriate to regard it as perfect philosophic creation. Its style and structure are classical and sublime. This Bani is deep, mature, suggestive and symbolic because the technical vocabulary used here is built on the basic knowledge available on the Yoga cult. In order to comprehend it, therefore, one must have a deep philosophical understanding.

This, however, does not mean that in writing this Bani,
Guru Nanak had the narrow object of addressing himself to an exclusive class of society. On the other hand the essential principles enunciated here, elucidate the fundamental tenets of Gurmat (The Guru's philosophy). In the exposition of Gurmat, Sidh Gosht occupies a unique and established position. Wherever the Guru felt it necessary, he has explained and clarified the philosophic terms and concepts.

The subject matter of this composition automatically leads to dialogue and discussion form. The length of the answers has been adapted to suit the needs of particular questions.
But wherever an explanation of the Gurmat principles is necessary, these have been explained at length. It is obvious that Guru Nanak's objective was not to condemn the Yoga system, but to elucidate and emphasize the Gurmat principles. When he discussed his own principles against the background of the Yoga system, he clearly brought out the similarities and the contrarieties, thus leaving no doubt about his teachings.

As is clear from the very beginning of this Bani, the Sidha Mandali (group) is seated on one side facing Guru Nanak and his followers. All this discussion is being held as a prayer to the Creator so as to bring out the eternal Truth of the Treasure-house of spiritual splendor. The Guru's yearning to comprehend the Truth in this manner is clear from the following verses:

Heeo(n) d-ai-o(n) sabh mann tann arpao(u)
Sees charan(h) parr raakhi-o. (1204)
(I make an offering of my head to the Lord and surrender my body and mind unto Him.)

Nanak Sant mil-ei sach paa-ee-ei Sehaj bhaa-i jas l-ai-o(u). (938)
(O, Nanak it is only when one meets the Saint that one attains Truth and then one is spontaneously blessed with glory.)

Gorakh, Charpat, Machhandar, Loharipa and other Sidhas and Nathas are shown as asking some questions. In the beginning the questions are asked and answered individually. Later on, however, individual personalities are not addressed as such, but the answers are given to the whole assembly of Yogis as a sect. One thing, however, is clear that all questions are answered by the Guru himself and no other person speaks on his behalf.

These questions and answers deal with noble living, aim of life, renunciation, going on pilgrimages, the beginning of the universe, the Nirguna (formless) aspect of God, silent meditation, the routine of spiritual life, Pranayama (Yogic exercises), the rites and rituals, the mendicant life, the miracles of Yoga through the attainment of Yogic Sidhis (powers). There are questions on Yogic practices and postures, outward symbols, Anhad Shabad (the un-struck melody) and other philosophic terms of Yoga. But the greater part of it deals with the exposition of Gurmat and the significant philosophic concepts of the Guru's thoughts. Examples of questions and answers regarding the concepts of the Guru, grace, Shabad, Naam (meditation on the Name of God), truth and patience are given below:

Dunee-aa saagar duttar kahee-ei Ki-o kar paa-ee-ai paaro
Charpat bol-ei a-odhoo Nanak Deh(u) sachaa beechaaro. (938)
(The world is an impassable sea, how can we go across? Give
us true advice, O Nanak, the detached one, supplicates Charpat, the Yogi.)

J-ei-sai jal meh kamal niraalam(u) Murgaa-ee nei saan-ai
Surt shabad bhav saagar taree-ai Nanak Naam vakhaan-ai. (938)
(Just as the lotus lives detached in water and the duck floats carefree on the stream. So can one cross the worldly sea, says Nanak, by keeping our minds attuned to the Lord's Shabad.)

Haatee baatee nee(n)d naa aavai Par ghar chit naa dolaa-ee
Bin naavai mann t-aik naa tik-ee Nanak bhookh naa jaa-ee
Haat pattan ghar Guru dikhaa-i-aa Sehj-ai sach vaapaaro
Khandit nidraa alap ahaara(n) Nanak tatt beechaaro. (939)
(Whether in one's house or in the woods, one should always be awake and alert and not be tempted by another's beauty, one can never satiate one's hunger nor control the mind without the Lord's Name. The whole world is mirrored in my mind, says Nanak and I deal with it in Truth, seated in pose. I sleep little and eat little; this is the quintessence I've found.)

We live detached from the world under the trees in the woods. Roots and fruits are our food and this is the wisdom we preach. We attain peace by ablutions at the sacred places and thus save our minds from pollution. This is the way of Yogis, says Loharipa, the disciple of Gorakh:

Kit bidh purkhaa janam vataa-i-aa Kaah-ai ka-o tujh ih mann laa-i-aa
Kit bidh aasaa mansaa khaa-ee Kit bidh jot nirantar paa-ee
Bin dantaa ki-o khaa-ee-ai saar Nanak saachaa karahau beechaar. (940)
(How have you changed the course of your life? To whom are you attuned and for what? How have you restrained your desire and hope? How have you discovered the Light within? How can one eat the hard things without teeth? Tell us, O Nanak, what is the real Truth?)

Satgur k-ei janam-ai gavan(u) mitaa-i-aa
Anhatt(i) raat-ai ih(u) mann(u) laa-i-aa
Mansaa aasaa shabad(i) jalaaee
Gurmukh jot(i)nirantar(i) paaee. (940)
(Being born in the Guru's lap I am beyond the cycle of birth and death. And being attuned to the Divine Melody of His word, my mind is under control. And my hopes and desires have been stilled. It is through the Guru that I have discovered the light within.)

Tr-ei gun(h) m-ait-ai khaaee-ei saar(u)
Nanak taar-ai taaran(h)haar(u). (940)
(When one overpowers the three-fold aspect of Maya, one can eat the uneatable. And then, says Nanak, one is freed by the Emancipator Lord.)

Subjects ranging from the ordinary, outward symbols of Yoga, and the way of life connected with these to the subtle Yoga exercises have been discussed here. From the 26th to the 52nd stanza the discussion deals with the concepts of the Manmukh (the egocentric man) and the Gurmukh (the spiritual man). Similarly, the mystery of Simran (meditation on the Name of God) has also been explained. This is how the Manmukh and the Gurmukh have been compared:

Manmukh(i) bhool-ei jamm kee kaan(h)
Parr ghar(u) joh-ei haan(h)ai haanh(i)
Manmukh(i) bharam(i) bhav-ei b-ai-baanh(i)
V-ai-maarag(i) moos-ei mantar(i) masaanh(i)
Sabad(u) na cheen-ei lav-ei kubaanh(i)
Nanak saach(i) ratt-ai sukh(u) jaanh(i). (941)
(The egocentric, who strays from the true path is devoured by Death. He has an eye on other people's possessions and so loses credit. The egocentric gets lost in doubts and wilderness, he goes astray and recites incantations at the crematoriums. He does not try to understand the Divine Shabad and speaks evil, they alone, who are imbued with Truth, can know peace, says Nanak.)

Gurmukh(i) saach-ai kaa bhao(u) paav-ei
Gurmukh(i) baan(h)ee agharh(u) ghar(h)aav-ei
Gurmukh(i) nirmal Har(i) gun(h) gaav-ei
Gurmukh(i) pavittar param padd(u) paav-ei
Gurmukh(i) rom(i) rom(i) Har(i) dhiaav-ei. (941)
(The Gurmukh carries fear of the True Lord and sublimates his wild mind through Bani (the holy word). He remains pure by singing praises of God; and attains the state of purity and bliss. The Gurmukh contemplates the Lord, body and soul and merges in the Eternal Truth.)

Naam-ai raat-ai haum-ei jaa(i) Naam(i) ratt-ai sach(i) rah-ai samaa(i)
Naam(i) ratt-ai jog jugat(i) beechaar(u) Naam(i) ratt-ai paaveh(i) mokh duaar(u)
Naam(i) ratt-ai tribhavan(h) sojhee ho(i)
Nanak Naam(i) ratt-ai sadaa sukh(u) ho(i). (941)
(Those, who are imbued with the Lord's Name know the true way of Yoga; And they alone attain salvation. Those who ever sing His Name know the mystery of the three worlds and enjoy perpetual bliss, says Nanak.)

This Bani is unique from both the linguistic and literary points of view. While the language and style prevalent all over India have been used to express the subtle ideas of the current spiritual heritage; the typical language used by the Yogic sects has also been kept in view. Kathiale (to describe), Pranwat (the supplicant), Paargirami (the Enlightened One) Oudhu (ascetic) etc. have been used symbolically. The Sidhas’ pride in their own sect is so obvious whereas the Guru is seen as the very embodiment of patience and tranquility, indicative of inner peace born of meditation on the Name of God. Besides elucidating the philosophic concepts of the Guru, this Bani, reveals his personal temperament also. In the whole of the discussion, there is no sign of anger or impatience, malice or hatred; on the other hand, everything has been discussed in an atmosphere of patience, tolerance, magnanimity and calm.

findingmyway said:

Everywhere I look for an interpretation of Sidh Gosht I see the same English translation which I find confusing and which doesn't adequately get the message across. I thought it would be good to have a go at interpreting it with the SPN sangat to get a more in depth sense of what Guru Nanak Dev ji is telling us. It's written in a clever way with the Q&A but sometimes I struggle to know who is saying what! The conversation took place between Guru ji and a group of Sadhu's in the Himalaya's during Guru Ji's travels. He was quite young at the time so I think it was in his earlier travels. Q&A seems to suit our modern way of learning so that is why I'm especially drawn to this Bani.

Over the next few months I would love the SPN sangat to join me in looking at Sidh Gosht pauri by pauri then re-evaluating to get the bigger picture. Here I'll start off and would appreciate your thoughts so we can make sure our understanding is in the right direction and input as to how to implement the advice given would also be good.

I'm colour coding the posts. The bits I think are attributed to the Sidhs are in green and the line being said by Guru Nanak Dev ji are in blue for clarity. Please correct me if I have things the wrong way round.

ਰਾਮਕਲੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ਸਿਧ ਗੋਸਟਿ raamkalee mehlaa 1 siDh gosat[/FONT]
Raamkalee, First Mehl, Sidh Gosht ~ Conversations With The Siddhas:[/FONT]
ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥[/FONT]ik-oNkaar satgur parsaad.[/FONT]
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:[/FONT]

ਸਿਧਸਭਾਕਰਿਆਸਣਿਬੈਠੇਸੰਤਸਭਾਜੈਕਾਰੋ॥[/FONT]siDh sabhaa kar aasan baithay sant sabhaa jaikaaro.[/FONT]
The Siddhas formed an assembly; sitting in their Yogic postures, they shouted, "Salute this gathering of Saints."[/FONT]

ਤਿਸੁਆਗੈਰਹਰਾਸਿਹਮਾਰੀਸਾਚਾਅਪਰਅਪਾਰੋ॥[/FONT]t[/FONT]is aagai rahraas hamaaree saachaa apar apaaro.[/FONT]
I offer my greeting only to the One who is true, infinite and incomparably beautiful.[/FONT]


ਮਸਤਕੁਕਾਟਿਧਰੀਤਿਸੁਆਗੈਤਨੁਮਨੁਆਗੈਦੇਉ॥[/FONT]mastak kaat Dharee tis aagai tan man aagai dayo.[/FONT]
I cut off my head, and offer it to God; I dedicate my body and mind to God.[/FONT]

ਨਾਨਕਸੰਤੁਮਿਲੈਸਚੁਪਾਈਐਸਹਜਭਾਇਜਸੁਲੇਉ॥[/FONT]੧॥[/FONT]naanak sant milai sach paa-ee-ai sahj bhaa-ay jas lay-o. ||1||[/FONT]
O Nanak, meeting with the THE "SAINT", Truth is obtained, and one is spontaneously blessed with distinction. ||1||[/FONT]


ਕਿਆਭਵੀਐਸਚਿਸੂਚਾਹੋਇ॥ [/FONT]Kiaa Bhaveeai Sach Soochaa Hoe ||[/FONT]
What is the use of wandering around? Purity comes only through Truth.[/FONT]

ਸਾਚਸਬਦਬਿਨੁਮੁਕਤਿਨਕੋਇ॥[/FONT]੧॥ਰਹਾਉ॥[/FONT]Saach Sabadh Bin Mukath N Koe ||1||[/FONT]
Without the True Word of the Shabad, no one finds liberation. ||1||Pause||[/FONT]

Guru Nanak Dev ji is saying that God is the true saint (as differentiated by the spelling-one contains an aunkar, the other doesn't).



ਕਵਨਤੁਮੇਕਿਆਨਾਉਤੁਮਾਰਾਕਉਨੁਮਾਰਗੁਕਉਨੁਸੁਆਓ॥ [/FONT]Kavan Thumae Kiaa Naao Thumaaraa Koun Maarag Koun Suaaou ||[/FONT]
"Who are you? What is your name? What is your path? What is your goal?[/FONT]

ਸਾਚੁਕਹਉਅਰਦਾਸਿਹਮਾਰੀਹਉਸੰਤਜਨਾਬਲਿਜਾਓ॥[/FONT] Saach Keho Aradhaas Hamaaree Ho Santh Janaa Bal Jaaou ||[/FONT]
I am always firm in my devotion to God. I do ardaas that I may remain a sacrifice to the tru saint (Waheguru). This is my truth. This is my path.[/FONT]

ਕਹਬੈਸਹੁਕਹਰਹੀਐਬਾਲੇਕਹਆਵਹੁਕਹਜਾਹੋ॥[/FONT] Keh Baisahu Keh Reheeai Baalae Keh Aavahu Keh Jaaho ||[/FONT]
Where is your seat? Where do you live, boy? Where did you come from, and where are you going?[/FONT]

ਨਾਨਕੁਬੋਲੈਸੁਣਿਬੈਰਾਗੀਕਿਆਤੁਮਾਰਾਰਾਹੋ॥[/FONT]੨॥[/FONT] Naanak Bolai Sun Bairaagee Kiaa Thumaaraa Raaho ||2||[/FONT]
Tell us, Nanak - the detached Siddhas wait to hear your reply. What is your path?""||2||[/FONT]

Notice the tone of the language used by the Sidhs. Boy is very condescending. The world still has this culture of looking down on young people as not being knowledgeable.


ਘਟਿਘਟਿਬੈਸਿਨਿਰੰਤਰਿਰਹੀਐਚਾਲਹਿਸਤਿਗੁਰਭਾਏ॥[/FONT] Ghatt Ghatt Bais Niranthar Reheeai Chaalehi Sathigur Bhaaeae ||[/FONT]
He dwells deep within the nucleus of each and every body. My home is constant remembrance of the almighty True Guru (Waheguru).[/FONT]

ਸਹਜੇਆਏਹੁਕਮਿਸਿਧਾਏਨਾਨਕਸਦਾਰਜਾਏ॥[/FONT] Sehajae Aaeae Hukam Sidhhaaeae Naanak Sadhaa Rajaaeae ||[/FONT]
We walk according to the Will of Akaal Purakh. We came into the world sleeping according to God and we travel through life according to God. I am Nanak, forever under the Command of His Will.[/FONT]

ਆਸਣਿਬੈਸਣਿਥਿਰੁਨਾਰਾਇਣੁਐਸੀਗੁਰਮਤਿਪਾਏ॥[/FONT] Aasan Baisan Thhir Naaraaein Aisee Guramath Paaeae ||[/FONT]
The true sitting yoga posture is keeping complete understanding inside always. [/FONT]

ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿਬੂਝੈਆਪੁਪਛਾਣੈਸਚੇਸਚਿਸਮਾਏ॥[/FONT]੩॥[/FONT] Guramukh Boojhai Aap Pashhaanai Sachae Sach Samaaeae ||3||[/FONT]
The Gurmukh recognises themself and merges with the true Guru, ie recognises the ego and is able to overcome it.[/FONT]

:whatzpointkudi::whatzpointsing::feedback:

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Vaheguru Ji ka Khalsa Vaheguru Ji ki fateh

I am too lowly to comment on this post. All I feel is dont push yourself (your mind) too hard to understand the translation of gurbani. Put your heart and you can feel the essence of Gurbani. I avoid just the reading and understanding of Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Rather, I do the darshan and love to have the conversation with our eternal Guruji.......motherlylove
May God Bless All who wants to get united with him.

Dear Findingmyway

It would have been nice to read the sidh gost in new light but your comments are making it not readable.
The Gosht = debate= argument. Was not written at the time it took place. I do not deny that there was no argument but it can not be written as the questions were asked and answered. Nanak must have gone home and composed the poem. He must have added and taken off many word to make it good poem. All song writers do that. There is nothing wrong with that. It is the content in the gosht that matter.

Guru Nanak wrote Sidh Gosht using a musical device that is both ancient and effective at engaging an audience in the narration of a story that has an important message. This format is like a Q and A, it is named, Call and Response/Return. It is used in religious music worldwide even today.

So I don't understand what your point is seekr3k. Call and response is in fact an ancient form that causes very dynamic feelings in the audience. Many a folk song east and west has been so written. It has the effect of drawing the listener into the song itself, often to the point of answering the question (the Response) once the performer sings it (the Call).

Example from a medieval English tune,"Lord Randall."

The call: Where have you been Lord Randall my son? O where have you been my handsome young man?

Response: I have been to the wild wood Mother, O make my bed soon for I'm wearing with hunting and would soon lie down.

People who know the song know also that suspense will build. Lord Randall tells his mother he has visited a beautiful and treacherous woman, and the audience knows where things are headed. The story builds and the mother several stanzas asks,

The call: What had you for dinner Lord Randall my son? What had you for dinner my handsome young man?

Response: Eels boiled in brew, Mother, O, make my bed soon. For I fear I've been poisoned and soon would lie down. The audience could not wait to get to sing this part.

Similarly, in the days of Guru Sahiban, an intimate relationship with the shabads and high participation by sangat was more common than today. We can get a little taste of it from listening to kirtan by Sant Sujjan Singh. He uses the same call and response format. Even when the raag does not call for it. So findingmyway is not off base by reconsidering Sidh Gosht for us in this manner. We are invited to listen to the question, wait for the answer, and with time and practice, answer the question aloud, or silently, for we have internalized the message, in part because of the enthusiasm that is created by the call and response.

This is a great way to invite people to learn Gurbani. I also want to add that no matter what the literary skills Guru Nanak used to make Sidd Gosht come alive for sangat, it has next to no relevance to what findingmyway is attempting: a translation that captures the vitality of the metaphors of Guru Nanak.

That’s exagatly what I am saying. Song is not always the truth. They are written to give info so that it touches the heart of the listener.

Findingmyway write the sidhs had low respect of Nanak by calling him child. There is nothing wrong if older person say beta to younger person, I in my late 60’s still few older people call me bacha, I don’t take it an offence. Nanak was not guru then. In fact Nanak never calls him self guru.

It make more sense if the translation is done with out personal interpolation of the person who is have little knowledge of the poem.
No one can fully understand the meaning of the poem other then the writer. That’s why there is a mess out there. Every one thinks he knows what Nanak was talking about.

Every one have the right to believe what ever. If other have the right then I should too.

seeker3k ji you are a wise man no question because of the points you raise. However I sense a feeling of ego in your writing which I have tried to flag (shoes in gurdwaras, head covering, etc.). For me these are signs of ego and it is quite possible I am mistake.

Sometimes what we write comes across different than what we mean and I have made such mistakes many a times. So sorry if my understanding of your comments at times is incorrect.

I will comment on an excerpt as below,

• That’s exagatly what I am saying.
  • I don't understand what you point to but it is no big deal.

• Song is not always the truth.
  • One has to recognize that it is perhaps not a verbatim transcription of the dialog.
  • Much more important for me is,
    • To receive an understand the message
    • The context of this being dialog with the Sidhs has little to do with in trying to understand the message.
      

• They are written to give info so that it touches the heart of the listener.
  • Guru Nanak Dev ji is a teacher first for us Sikhs and so are rest of the Gurus for me. Their general style is to make it easy for us to understand like any teacher would.
  • As spnadmin ji pointed out question and answers are a wonderful teaching tools and it is used wonderfully in Sidh Gosht.
  • Another method is to look at common beliefs so that your students who have some linkages tot these will find it easy to understand. This is widely used in Gurbani as well with splitting Shabads with "Rahao" where the part before the "Rahao" postulates and the part after the "Rahao" reasons out.

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When I attempted my translation I did it to understand rather focus on Sidhs calling Guru Nanak Dev ji a child. I agree with you that it is good and widely used depending upon context. For me,

• We will forever be a God's or creator's child.
• We will always be a child in our parents eyes regardless of our age.
• Relatively speaking we are always children to someone older than us.
• In a context of learning students are children to teacher, etc.

I see that you have a keen eye and I would appreciate your comments on how I wrote my post and interpreted the part in the following post,
Regards,

Sat Sri Akal.

For me these are signs of ego and it is quite possible I am mistake.

You have the right to believe what you want. I live by SGGS nothing more. I do not believe in any man made marjyda.
I know there is no ego in my heart. If one can not give the answer he will accuse other of ego
Rab is gungal dar bujarat, Rab ek gorakh dhanda.
Kohlan lagia peech es the kafar ho jai banda
***** hono mool na thewi, lailag moman(brahman) nalon khogi kafer ho hai band

Dear findingmyway,

WJKK WJKF.

I applaud you for the post. I am comming a bit late but hope I can contribute. First we try to discuss/identify who made the statements and then discuss the meaning. My contribution up to 3rd pauri as follows.

Setting the scneario that Guruji is on his travels and comes upon a gathering of "people". He identifies who they are and says
isD sBw kir Awsix bYTy sMq sBw jYkwro
A group of siddhis are having a assembly, and my GREETINGS to this gathering of "sants".
However he continues, my SALUTATION is to TRUE LORD with the following lines.
iqsu AwgY rhrwis hmwrI swcw Apr Apwro ]
msqku kwit DrI iqsu AwgY qnu mnu AwgY dyau ]
nwnk sMqu imlY scu pweIAY shj Bwie jsu lyau ]1]

The above is the "greetings to the gathering and salutation to WAHEGURU" part.
Then comes the discussion proper.

Guruji says
ikAw BvIAY sic sUcw hoie ]
swc sbd ibnu mukiq n koie ]1] rhwau ]

The siddhis wondering who this "young saintly person" is and question
kvn qumy ikAw nwau qumwrw kaunu mwrgu kaunu suAwE ]
swcu khau Ardwis hmwrI hau sMq jnw bil jwE ]
and continue
kh bYshu kh rhIAY bwly kh Awvhu kh jwho ]
nwnku bolY suix bYrwgI ikAw qumwrw rwho ]2]

Guruji replies
Git Git bYis inrMqir rhIAY cwlih siqgur Bwey ]
shjy Awey hukim isDwey nwnk sdw rjwey ]
Awsix bYsix iQru nwrwiexu AYsI gurmiq pwey ]
gurmuiK bUJY Awpu pCwxY scy sic smwey ]3]

Comments on this.

WAHEGURU BLESS.