108 Mala Beads

Do Sikhs, when using mala for naam jap, have to use 108 beads on their mala? I know this is a Hindu thing but it can have a logical unsuperstitious meaning for Sikhs also -

(5) Why are there 108 beads in a mala (rosary)?[font=Courier New, Courier, mono][font=Courier New, Courier, mono][/font][/font]
Answer: According to the Upanishads, a person will breathe 21,600 times a day. It is broken up into two parts, day and night. Therefore, during the day we breathe 10,800 times and at night we breathe 10,800 times. Because it is not practical for us to chant the name of God during every breath, we should chant them at least 108 times. Every time we chant the mantra its fruit is multiplied by 100. Hence, if we say it 108 times it will really equal 10,800.

Source: http://kids.swaminarayan.org

Gurbani tells us that those who Japp the Naam swaass swass are the real saints..so each breath is meant for naam japp.

Where do we draw the line that says..Here lies the point of "unpractical" ?? you have put it at 10,800 is Not Practical...so we do it 108..and it automatically multiplies by 100 to make it 10,800....what about just doing it 10.8 times and automatically multiplying it by 1000...or better still just 1.08...and multiply by 10,000...and IF we cant do/have difficulty computing how to do .08 of ajapp..why not take the easy way out and round it up to 1 adn in that way we will "accumalate" EXTRA Bonus POINTS....for those days we "really need" to take a holiday and cant do even the minimum nana japps.( like maybe we end up in coma for a few months and the "bonus" points accumalated would certianly come in handly then !!!

the 108 beads mala...counting...gintee mintee is of no significance to real SIKHS as this has no value at all in GURBANI/GURMATT. This Maala carrying thingy is popular with the "hinduised" brahmanwaadi "sants/babajis" only. Not a Single line in Gurbani "recommends" maaal as a tool for Naam japp Abhiyaas..but there are SEVERAL that CONDEMN such SHOW OFF RITUAL behaviour..Gaal maala tilak lilatang...doi dhotee bastar kapattang...etc etc.
A true Sikh follows what Gurbani Says....just try your level best to do naam japp as much as you can....forget about counting and scoring off..HE is NOT PLEASED with such rituals as counting etc.

Jarnail Singh

I don't think I can top what Gyani ji said about counting being verboten in Sikhi.

The aala is not required by Gurbani, however, some Sikhs think there are advantages of using it. A mala can be an extra physical reminder to do simran...kind of like having a post-it note attached to one's computer screen.

Some people say that doing simran with a mala helps them concentrate and stay focused. I've never used one...and don't particularly care to out of personal choice. I prefer to keep my body relaxed during simran, and the idea of doing something that requires fine motor control is not something that I find appealing.

Now...what I have an issue with is the chain. If someone wants to have a mala chain of 108 (or a factor of 108) beads out of tradition...fine with me. If someone wants to break with tradition and make a mala chain that is a different number...fine with me. I have no attachment to the number, for or against.

What I do NOT like is the clasp of the chain that gives the person a tactile sense of where they are in the count. It also produces an "end" to the count. I am very, very disappointed that this is the way that malas are made and sold to Sikhs.

If the mala is genuinely used for a purpose that is true to Sikhi, then doesn't it make sense that the chain should have no beginning and no end?

Dear Khalsa Ji,

Numbers are all created by we humans for the needs of our lives. It has nothing spiritual in it. However, ancient scripture of our land considers 108 as a spiritually important number along with other numbers which Gyani Ji have spoken of in his post. As for as Sikhi is concerned this number has no special meaning in spiritual domain.

Mala also has nothing to do with spirituality. Yet it is a tool to stablise the mind and its thought process. Moving the beats is the minimum mechanical work needed to hold mind on Jaap. As one makes progress, this tool is no longer meeded. The individual by that time has stablised her or his mind. The mechanical work them gets limited to utterence of Jaap. With progress this utternce too stops and the individual does the Jaap mentally. In the final stage the Jaap too stops, the individual remains in rememberance of 'The sat' without Jaap, this is referred too as Ajaapa Jaap. Further progress takes the y the individual into Samadhi which the end of this long process.

So one can see all these are means and not the end. The goal is Samadhi.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

Amarpal said:

it is a tool to stablise the mind and its thought process. Moving the beats is the minimum mechanical work needed to hold mind on Jaap. As one makes progress, this tool is no longer meeded. The individual by that time has stablised her or his mind. The mechanical work them gets limited to utterence of Jaap. With progress this utternce too stops and the individual does the Jaap mentally. In the final stage the Jaap too stops, the individual remains in rememberance of 'The sat' without Jaap, this is referred too as Ajaapa Jaap. Further progress takes the y the individual into Samadhi which the end of this long process.

So one can see all these are means and not the end. The goal is Samadhi.

Click to expand...

Personally, I agree with this sequence totally, with Samadhi as the goal.

Regards.

Ah!! So it IS okay to do simran staying focused on saying Waheguru "in the mind"? It doesn't have to be spoken? I was confused about that.

Another thing I am confused about - what is Samhadi? I don't think I ever understood that well.

Samãdhi

1) ‘Trance’. Transcendental experience, usually of God or His abode, in which consciousness of the body and surroundings is lost.
2) Eighth and final step of ashtãng-yoga. Transcendental experience of union with God, which is the culmination and climax of yoga

[Source http://www.baps.org/glossary/index.htm ]

Dear Amerikaur Ji,

Samadhi is a state of in which the individual is dissolved in 'The Sat'. She or he looses the body consciousness and the consciousness of time as the individual in this state is conscious of the infinite, the unlimited.

Keep in mind, 'The Sat' is timeless, it has no body or form. So you can conclude what the individual is when she or he is in Samadhi; She or he, in Samadhi, is one with 'The Sat'.

Keep in mind that being one with 'The Sat' does not mean that she or he is 'The Sat'. In this state the person experiences 'The Sat'.

With love and respect for all.

Amarpal Singh

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh

Das think so far after the ataining of Brah Gyan by Bhai Sahib Bhai Randheer Singh ji all of the Sikhs think of thats is the goal.It is false.

When tenth door or Sahstardal Kamal is inverted then the state of Brahm Gyan is obtained.

But Sikhs go further ahead.

Ie

Sunn Mandal
Turiya Avastha
Turiyateet Awastha or Sachkhand.

There is some divine knowledge of Akal which we can not percive with our five sensse so Akal gives us Sixth sense to get it.

It can be felt,even while describing it the listener may not be able to understand if he read(as seeing sense is there) or listen(as hearing sense is there).

Nanak Kathan Karra Saar(O Nanak,describing the essense is difficult)

Jees Nu Tu Jannya Soi Jan Jane(To whom You(Akal) make to understand that person only understands).

In Guru Granth Sahib Ji beads of wood(Japni Kath Ki) is not encouraged by Bhagat Kabeer Ji.

Just by repeating name in Akalustat of Dasham Granth Guru Says,'There is a bird called Poodna,who keeps on saying Tuhi Tuhi(you only).But that does not mget salvation.if by saying mechnicaly we were to get salvation then that bird could have got.

Das here wants to take a dig at our own missioanier(Das do respect Kala Afghana Sahib but it is worth considering)It was said by Sant Singh Ji Maskeen as well perhaps it may be found in Adi Guru Granth Sahib Ji or may be in other scripture.

If donkey is laden with holy scripture then it does not makes him wise.So if a missionarry just read and make scripture by heart and 'record' it in mind that does not make him guide of mankind.Das is sorry that it was a bit offensive but it was as a result of an interaction with a missioanary of Das.

Both agreed that to end ritualism,we will have to use spritualism.Intellectualism may not succed to end ritualism.As Vedanta was defeated by bhakti in past.But Gurmat has both bhakti and Gyan.

Dear Vijaydeep:

What is sikhi?

Is it all about reading scriptures without understanding?

Is it all about reading and understanding, but doing nothing practically?

Is it all about reading, understanding and inculcating the teachings in one's life?

Will God be achieved by going Yoga's or Dasam Dwaar, or will we achieve him by Sehaj and by coming into his will?

The things like Dasam Dawar you are describing are not spirtualism of sikhism, Going for such stuff by meditation will only lead to Haume, nothing more or less.

Sikhi advises living truthful life in accordance with His Hukum and doing sacchi Kaar. Following such a a truthful life people are liberated.

Please have a look at the following link.

http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=68&punjabi=t&id=2747

Friends,

I understand Sikhi talks not to use Maala. Still I tend to have some experimental nature, and would like to express my personal thoughts about this. Sometimes, it comes to me that when I use maala, initially the fingers movement start, but sooner it gets into inside, and a jaap starts from inside, and immdly I realize that my fingers stopped long ago. But then there is no need to move fingers, as maala served its purpose to accelerate the jaap. Kids learn riding bicycle having two side wheels. Once learnt, there is no need to keep those side wheels, which acted as a tool to learn. However, if one gets stuck with side wheels or maala always, then those have clearly defeated the purpose.

Sometimes, it appears to me that moving fingers on maala is as good as feeling our spine! and moving amrit through the spine! bead by bead... one by one. I guess, most of these feelings came to me, when I had interest in Pranic healing. Inhaling and exhaling, which causes collection of channelized energy through out the human body, when done consciously, with a purpose in mind.

Guru Sahib told Sikhs not to use maala. Two reasons come to me: 1. Human mind tends to stick at counting insteading of using it as a tool to move on to other levels.
2. Rituals at Guru Sahib's times demanded mantra jaap for a certain count, to gain ridhi/sidhi, which is not the focus of Sikhism.

I look forward to what others think. For me, it helps a lot!

Regards.

Ek Oankar Wahiguru Ji Ki Fateh
Dear brother Babber Sher Ji,

Well Sikhi can nver be something doing.or trying. As to say that i do is some thing which takes seed for haumai.What is Hau mai.Hai(am) Mai(i).

then coming to Dasham Dwar thing.you have mistaken Das for yogis of Hath Yoga who do it.Well these guys do something and get some miraclulous powers.

They do something and get of it and then come back to womb.

What is Sahj Awashta.Sahaj means slow.Does Gurmat makes our progress slow in sprituality answer will be a big no.Sahaj means easy here.So Sahaj Awastha is the state of ease bestowed by Akal.When there is no differnce between God and soul.

Pranwai Nama Bhye Nihkama Ko Thakur Ko Dasa Re
Here Bhagat Mamdev Ji are talking a sate of attaineing positionn of desireless and there is no lord or servent left(As both are united).

So even if we do true deeds and say we work in Akal's hukam then we may get heavan for some time but no salavtion.

Only by mercy of Akal when soul of the person does not find itself as an entity but only Akal all over that is the state of bliss.

There arer various statesment in Gurubani of Adi Guru Granth Sahib which tell about varoius thing regardsing Dasham Dwar.And as drkhalsa knows that there was a bhaynkar Mata nirmala devi who keeps on saying Sikhs do not know about it.Yes Sikhs with only missioanry back Ground do not know it.


Same can not be said about all.Well there are various instance of lotus in heart(Herdya Kamal) or Lightening.As just by reading often logic minded people tend to say that there could be some other meaning of this in Guru Granth Sahib Ji.

while that is telling us about various Paranormal things.That is the stage where science or present day logic is yet to reaCH.at the base of logic there are axioms.Which can not be proved but taken as true.So logic is based upon illogical foundation.

So if someone does not know what is the divine state then why should one condems it.

By reading Gurbani we are blessed by Akal that we reach the gate.Understanding it and going by it is not in our hand but by mercy of Akal.

Going by Hukum tells us of surrender to Akal(Islam aslo means surrender).

Das was with Hath Yoga before coming under the refuge of Akal by Akal's mercy.

Das will explin it by Vichitar natak's line which may not appear adverse by Adi Guru Granth Sahib Ji purist body.

By goings billions of spells(Mantra of OmKar of jogis)
By taking there help to tap sytem(Tantra is system and it is more yoigs that they use neru tranmitter or other thing by there spine realted nerve)(Shushuman Narhi))
By using Wariuos mechanism(Jantra the actual yogic doing to let the breath move)
No one is going to be saved by the blow of time(that all will not libraTE us from the circle of time of death and birth).

Where comeing to refuge there protection is done by Akal.(Jithe Sharan Aye Hain Tethe Rakh Lai Hain).

Often missionaires tend to talk of Brad shaw or Dr.Radhkrishanan praising Sikhism(especially S. Surjeet Singh Ji of Delhi) but none was from spritualistic side they did not become Sikhs.

It is better to ask the power of Gurumat by those Black African Amrican's younger genration who was blessed by the Sikhism(Harbhajan Yogi) or by eastern europian(Baba Virsa Singh Ji) who was made Sikh.

So Das again say Dasham Dwar here there,Anahat Shabad is there.And furhter sates are there like Sunna Sadan And Turya Awastha and Turyateet Avstha.

And reaching there is not in our Hand but by will of Akal.Brahm Gyan or state of Dasham Dwar hindue or Muslims(Haq Haq Agah) or Christians(Holy Ghost) all can reach by self attempts.

Brahm gyani has to respect as creator(Sukhmani Sahib ) As that person will never die(Jeeve Nahi Marta) as spirit of said is always in Chardi Kala.These are statements made by Das in realative dimensions.As Bhagats from all sides be deemed as Harijan Hari antar nahin(No differnce between devotees and God.Even there must not differnced deemed between any person and God at further higher level of understanding).

But all in real are done by God.and so are the further states.Living in Huaqam of Akal is Sikhi.Sikh is one who learns from his Guru who is God.And every sound in universe is of no one but of Akal.Das even see Akal in Kala Afghana Sahib,Trying to take test of faith of various Sikhs.Akal only will pass who Akal wanted to be promoted.

Das just want to remind here the thing of Bhai Kanaya,Who helped enemies also thinking God in them.He was a Great Sikh.But those who complaint about him were equaly good Sikhs who were playing with there own life for Faith.Both had different preceptions but Both were Sikhs of Guru.And Guru sidied with Bhai Kanayya.

sO doing in anyway or moving in a relative way of truth is not Sikhi.Sikhi is the state of surrender to the will of Akal.Akal is Karta(doer).And any way whichever Akal wants can make Akal reachable.Gurmat is the only faith which states Jit Dware Ubre Te Te Liyo Obar,By which door salvation be obtained use that way to salvage.

Akal can salvage Sikh and non Sikh alike.Coming Back to understanding.Gurbani is not here to understand Gurmat or Sikhi. It is by Akal to understand Akal.

As there are two type of knowledge.Para and Apara.Latter one is obtained by sound or visions or what is listening or reading or understanding it only.It is apara un para normal.Not beyong the reach of our five sense and mind.

The former Para Vidya or knowledege beyond normal or Para normal is something which by mercy of Akal can be felt but can not be shared.

Das will also explain hindu yoga or Hath Yoga and Gurmat Yoga or Raj Yoga.

It has already been shown on TV(Perhaps on Nat Geo or discovery) that a Hath yogi lieved in cabin with no oxygen for twenty hours.(off record there are instance for year).Das came to know that people were talkin about its abiltiy of mind developed to couonter oxygen diffciensy).But truth is that best of intellectual say like our Kala Afghan Sahib can only use 10% of there brain.

did God make rest of the 90% useless . That is also not correctly provenn as sceince has its own limitations.And brain of human is still a black box.

As per das hypothicallay Yogis are doing Hath Yoga.Hath means stuborn,Yoga here could be add.So as Yogis show miracles.They produce flower from no where.

This is nothing else but sceintific theory(it is also at present relative) That electrons,protons and neutrons in all elements are same but there vrious arrangement make differnt elements.So hindu yogis have reached only to that state that like fusion or fission can change elements from one to another.So they can make oxygen back from Carbon di oxycided they have exhaled.It is notih but adding(Yog) of varoius Tantra(System)Mantra(Vibration),Yantra(Mechanism).So from air,Flower can be produced by same way.That has nothing to do with salvation.

Then Raj Yoga is king of Yoga.Here yoga is used as union with God.That can be by Gyan(Knowlege) or/And by Devotion.Gurmat is Raaj Yoga.Here as it is in there,All space is Akal,All matter is Akal,all Actions are by Akal.

It is beyond the bouondries of energy and matter.

in the knowledge of medical Dashm Dwar is called Penial Gland. or Sastar Dal Kamal

Kindly read page 974 of Guru Granth Sahib Ji

IT is saying
Forehead/head(mastak)lotus(padam)surrounded by/ing (duale) mani(gem)..
In there(mahi)away from mammon(Nirnajan)Universe(Tribhuvan)('s) Richest(Dhani)..

So Brother Baber Sher Ji,

Adi Guru Granth Sahib Ji has those things that present day sceince is yet to understand.And just by logic or say interpetation by any normal man(Dr Sahib Singh Ji also as Das has leanrt from missionaries never claimed that there explanations of Gurbani's Arth(Meaning) are ultimate,Nor das is calimeing and nor can anyone calaim).And making it a standard can be of anyuse if any follower of it gets the state of salvaged while alive.

Das can say that on our site Sant Amerpal Singh Ji realy are progressing to gain proximity to Akal.One day they may get same position as Akal as there will be no differnce between them and Akal.To us he will be seen as any normal human being doing daily work.but in reality there own mind,thier own soul will cease to exist.There brain will be absorbed by Brain of Akal.And that actually will be thinking.

Our Body and brain are also of Akal.but we know but do not feel.When feeling will be there then we may get nearer to the stage of salvation.Akal Bless.By will of Akal.