The Five K's, Why

Dear all
I have been on the forum for several years now and joined to find answers, Alot have been aswered but the one that still remains unanswered is the five K's. When I've seen threads on this topic Ive read them with interest but still no one has ever answered it, Many have tried but still no real answer. the hair one seems to always be that its a Hukam but no one says why Guru Gobing Singh ji gave it and the same with the rest of them. Nine Guru ji's didnt say we needed them, one did, Its not in the SGGS ji, Ive been told that untill I accept them it will be a stumbling block to my spirituality, But why. I'm told that I cant be a full Sikh till I have them, Why. Could some one please tell me what each one is for and why Guru Gobing Singh ji thought that we needed them and to what purpose they serve to day please.
Tony

There is no place where Guru Gobind Singh ji has explained comprehensively why the 5ks. It's something I have contemplated as well. There is a very good explanation in Kushwant Singh's book History of Sikhs Vol.1. Here is the jist:

Kesh: leave your body untouched as it was created; holy people would keep long hair during those times and the Guru's idea was to have saintly soldiers (Pius, just...etc).
Kanga: to keep yourself neat and clean. Living in the jungle you cant carry a cosmetic set with you so the best solution is the have a comb in you turban.
Kada: the kada in Guru's time were much larger and they serve two purposes: as a protecive armour for you right (i.e) your sword wielding hand; And when you do take out the kirpan the kada acts as a reminder to always be just in your action.
Kachera: Shorts... makes it easy during war... i.e you can quiclkly get on the horse.
Kirpan: a sikh should protect against injustice.

These are convential definitions that have been explained by sikh scholars but you are right to point out its absense in the guru granth sahib. But then again there is very little written by guru gobind singh in the adi granth. His contributions lie in the zafarnamas and the dasam granth.

tony said:

Dear all
I have been on the forum for several years now and joined to find answers, Alot have been aswered but the one that still remains unanswered is the five K's. When I've seen threads on this topic Ive read them with interest but still no one has ever answered it, Many have tried but still no real answer. the hair one seems to always be that its a Hukam but no one says why Guru Gobing Singh ji gave it and the same with the rest of them. Nine Guru ji's didnt say we needed them, one did, Its not in the SGGS ji, Ive been told that untill I accept them it will be a stumbling block to my spirituality, But why. I'm told that I cant be a full Sikh till I have them, Why. Could some one please tell me what each one is for and why Guru Gobing Singh ji thought that we needed them and to what purpose they serve to day please.
Tony

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The reason for the 5 K's is as follows:
we keep our hair because it gives us energy & strength. Hair will only grow so far and then stop - your body requires nutrients to regrow hair should you cut it.
It's hard to understand the 5 K's without an element of humility and desire to surrender- and how to get that is a whole other matter.
I hope this helps. Sat Nam

Dear Tony Ji,

I have discussed this sensitive subject in my post of Sikh Symbols but the minority has no bibliographic evidence and the silent majority is just the observer as in any political or religious situation. I will be posting a article on this silent majority. There are 8115 members of this forum. On the discussion side there are only 15 or so members who discuss and debate and spinning the thread taking it from discussion of meat to clean shavers etc. Now you can calculate the silent majority. They think that 5 K's is the end of the means as far as spirituality is concerned. You talk of internal filth or virtues they go on to hairs. You talk of hairs they go on to Amrit. You talk of Amrit they go on to turban. You talk of turban they go on to sword. I have posted all these one by one and each thread as per AGGS is nothing but virtue. Most of the debaters have 5 K's and two of us are with out Bana.
It is true that those who make a living by reading AGGS have more knowledge of it. I have read AGGS from all 1430 pages 60 + times over a period of 62 years. How many debaters have read AGGS and how many times?
Spirituality has nothing to do with any religion. It is to find Akal Purkh and mental poise in Higher Self by lifting the veil of Lower instincts-one of these is ego/Houmai. The later does not let the discussion any where;

First Swaeeya, DG, Page, 712

ਜਾਗਤਿ ਜੋਤ ਜਪੈ ਨਿਸ ਬਾਸੁਰ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਨ ਨੈਕ ਨ ਆਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਸਜੈ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਗੋਰ ਮੜੀ ਮਟ ਭੂਲ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ ਤੀਰਥ ਦਾਨ ਦਇਆ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹ ਏਕ ਪਛਾਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਜੋਤ ਜਗੈ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਖਾਲਸ ਤਾਹਿ ਨਖਾਲਸ ਜਾਨੈ ॥
Jaagat Joat Japai Nis Basar Ayk Bina Man Naik Na Aanai.Pooran Prem Partit Sajai Barat Gor Marhi Matt Bhool Na Manai.Ttheerathh Daan Dayaa Tap Sanjam Ayk Binaa Neh Ayk Pashhaanai.Pooran joth jagai ghatt mai thab khaalas thaahi nakhaalas jaanai.

He, who remembers the ever-awakened Light throughout night and day and does not bring anyone else in the mind, and practices his vow with whole hearted affection and does not believe in even by oversight, the graves, Hindu monuments and monasteries; and does not recognize anyone else except One God, not even the bestowal of charities, performance of merciful acts, austerities and restraint on pilgrim-stations; the perfect light of the God illuminates his heart, then one comes to know immaculatePure from impure.

Cordially,

Virinder

Respected VSGREWAL Ji
With all due respect, I have to disagree with you due to wrong assumptions you are making about others. You have read SGGS even hundred times; it will not change your mind-set. In my post I asked you very simple question if Guru asked his followers “ First clean your mind and then join then Amrit ceremony ?” or he let all to have it who were willing to?’ Your over 60 times reading of SGGS ji couldn’t make you enough honest to answer the question. What kind of boasting is this? You are unnecessarily attaching “Turban, Sword etc “with spirituality” and trying to define them through SGGS. All those who contributed in to SGGS didn’t establish “Khalsa” it was tenth Master who did, how come you are defining these fives out of SGGS where in fact they are used in a metaphoric expression. Reading or reciting Gurbani with own mind-set, and not listening actually what the real Message is conveyed through Gurbani, is nothing but a academic muscles or mind pleasing. There are people out there for whom 5 Kakars are very dear and after having it they are struggling with five primal forces as you and many others are doing; let them do it, don’t try to tell them that this will insult amrit because Tenth Nanak when gave Amrit he didn’t put any condition, on what ground you are saying so. Surprisingly none of the debaters ever said that only through 5 kakars, spiritually comes. Sikhism is all about battling within to keep love for our beloved Master-the Creator. All are struggling at their own levels and capacities as per His ordinance. Don’t be judge of others in this regard. No Sikh wearing 5 kakars should disrespect those who are not wearing 5 kakars because Guru didn’t do that, it is that simple, same way, who love 5 Kakars, don’t lecture them with your own mind-set about 5 kakars either.
Forgive me if I said any thing that really affects your spiritual progression, I didn’t have any intention to do so save for your boasting of reading SGGS many times in comparison to others who question your distortion. All I am saying is that as you are right to clean within is important, they are also right to have 5 Kakars to walk on the same Guru path you are claiming to tread on. Only truly achieving those virtues will decide who in real sense have followed Guru not these lame lectures or my commentries. Thanks
Regards
G Singh

If anyone has personal issue with a posting please can they do it via a personal message to the person concerned, My intention with this subject is to find out the reasons for the need to carry the five K's and to see how they can help me and others to become better people (Sikhs). It is not my intention to start an argument as this helps nobody.
Now I would like to address the answers so far
Bawaj ji
your reasons for kesh is to keep as God intented/ made us. this falls short when one cuts nails /removes appendix and so on, All including kesh are remnents of our past, all became obsolete when man started walking upright, I have heard hair is used for the making of vitamin D2 which is correct but only when the skin is completly covered and sunlight can not touch the skin i.e. animals with fur. So if we are to stay as God made us then we must keep our nails, To look saintly I suppose is a reasonable reason, but looking isnt always enough. I understand the need for the Kanga if one has hair no need to go on with this one. I always wonder about the kara and this is the nicest explanation I heard would love to know if this is right and if it is why has it been reduced in size. the kachera seems pretty logical but are they neccassery now days, how many Sikhs ride horses. The kirpan a means to protect is very out dated. one if you used it in self defence in England and the other person wasnt armed you would have a job proving that it wasnt excessive force, Most people who have claimed it was in selfdefence have failed and are doing time, also if you pull a knife out your quite likely to get shot these days and these also the fact that if one carries a weapon the other will get a bigger/ better weapon hence the nuclear arms race. thank you for your posting but still it hasnt shed any light on the need for them,
Satnam ji
Hair cannot give you strength or energy, it is dead from the moment it leaves the folical it cannot repair its self nor does it require any more nutrients after being cut than if it is left uncut. It grows at the same rate reguardless, I have a great degree of humility and am willing to surrender myself to God. I do my best each day to follow the teaching of the Guru jis as per SGGS ji, Looking at my actions each night and promising to do better the next day (not always achieving it but trying anyway) Still I cannot see the need of the five K's or how they can help any one to be a better person (Sikh). Thank you for trying any way the reminder of being humble and the need to surrender are always of help.
Virinder ji
thank you for taking the time to reply to my question your opion always means alot. I have followed your threads with great interest and must agree that many change the subject quite quickly. Superstition being the lastest one I've read and that changed direction within the first page. When i first read the SGGS ji it seemed so simple say your prayers, think of God at all times, treat all as equals and help others selflessly. The finding of the inner self being the hardest part, i.e. the losing of the ego, believing all are better, but even thats getting easier, Its the need to carry items which I can only see as a means of obtaining an identity, the need to have hair, carrying a kirpan and the wearing of a Turban just so that others know that I'm a Sikh, It actually seems to be an Ego thing as opposed to an aid to losing ones ego. My days of trying to stand out in the crowd for the way I look are well and truly over. So as yet I see no real reason why I need any of the five K's to say that I'm Sikh. Thank you for your comments and I look forward to your next thread
Tony

Dear G Singh Ji,

In short I will take Amrit when I have cleaned my inside. In my own judgement of my self, so for I have not made my self fit to take, Amrit. I do not think it is just a ritual/joke and a means to an end. My mind roaming around in 10 directions. I am making an honest effort to subjugate my lower instincts and to develop virtues. When I become fit I may be blessed by Akal Purkh's Grace and Amrit will automatically be showered.

Respectfully submitted with regards..

Virinder

Cant agree more Virinder ji, It is better to make the effort first then receive the honour than to receive the honour and forget to make the effort
Tony

Dear Tony Ji,

I have been trying to say this since long but it is twisted, spinned etc. I have written my personal experience in one of my posts that Manjit (My wife) reminded me that I could not live the Truth for 15 minutes. To me it is better not to have, rather than insulting the 5 K's later on as we read it every day in the media. Thanks for your thoughts.

Cordially,

Virinder

tony said:

Dear all

Alot have been aswered but the one that still remains unanswered is the five K's.

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It has been answered, just got to look for it more carefully.

When I've seen threads on this topic Ive read them with interest but still no one has ever answered it,

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Same here read with interest, but it has been answered.

Many have tried but still no real answer.

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tony ji which site you on

the hair one seems to always be that its a Hukam but no one says why Guru Gobing Singh ji gave it and the same with the rest of them

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There are many reasons why the Tenth Nanak made it a Hukam. Go through other threads.

Nine Guru ji's didnt say we needed them,

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Are you 100% certain on this?

Its not in the SGGS ji,

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Read more carefully God is described with long flowing beautful hair. It also says to do as the Guru says

Ive been told that untill I accept them it will be a stumbling block to my spirituality, But why.

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How can one say I am the Guru's Sikh without accepting his teachings. The only way one is to be a Sikh is if mind is elimanted and you are the Guru's slave.

I'm told that I cant be a full Sikh till I have them, Why

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.

Define full Sikh and you'll have your answer.

Could some one please tell me what each one is for and why Guru Gobing Singh ji thought that we needed them and to what purpose they serve to day please.
Tony

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Why did the tenth Nanak say we needed them, because it creates an identity and they help on this spiritual journey. Each one promotes spiritualality and is a quick reminder to who you are and what is the mission in life. The more Gurbani you read with attentive hears the reason for each kakkar is given. The Shabad Guru speaks to us, we just have to decide if we want to listen or not. The choice is of the reader. Go in with saying 'I know nothing' and the learning begins. Go in with 'I know' and the learning has stopped.

Dear Sadh Sangat,

I need your help in finding the answers to the following:

1.Are all 25 millions Sikhs Keshsdhari or does this number also include Sehajdharis, meaning people who do not keep unshorn hair?

2.If all 25 millions are Keshadhari Sikhs, then how many have taken Kandei De pahul?

3.How many Sehajdhari Sikhs are there?

4. Does SGPC keep any stats to find out the above?

Tejwant Singh

vsgrewal48895 said:

Dear Tony Ji,

I have discussed this sensitive subject in my post of Sikh Symbols but the minority has no bibliographic evidence and the silent majority is just the observer as in any political or religious situation.

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Virinder ji,

The biblographic evidence is the living Khalsa of todays time that serve the Lord in full devotion. These same Khalsas were named Baba Deep Singh ji, Bhai Mani Singh ji. These Khalsas carry the evidence you need.

I will be posting a article on this silent majority. There are 8115 members of this forum. On the discussion side there are only 15 or so members who discuss and debate and spinning the thread taking it from discussion of meat to clean shavers etc.

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If some don't feel to discuss then thats fine, A person learns from doing both. And some probably feel that there views are being expressed, but just another person is doing it.

Now you can calculate the silent majority.

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Some people here have an account, but rarely or never come back. Sometimes they only needed one question answered and once they get their answer, off they go never to return.

They think that 5 K's is the end of the means as far as spirituality is concerned.

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Sorry to say but this is your judging.

You talk of internal filth or virtues they go on to hairs. You talk of hairs they go on to Amrit. You talk of Amrit they go on to turban. You talk of turban they go on to sword. I have posted all these one by one and each thread as per AGGS is nothing but virtue.

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Are you speaking about someone specific here. It would be nice to know who, so this can be cleared up. I am pretty sure the person will have an answer for you if he/she is on this site

Most of the debaters have 5 K's and two of us are with out Bana.

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Seriously, never knew this

It is true that those who make a living by reading AGGS have more knowledge of it.

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Judgemental

I have read AGGS from all 1430 pages 60 + times over a period of 62 years. How many debaters have read AGGS and how many times?

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Reading is not the key, listening is. Waheguru Simran is so wonderful. Love it

First Swaeeya, DG, Page, 712

ਜਾਗਤਿ ਜੋਤ ਜਪੈ ਨਿਸ ਬਾਸੁਰ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਮਨ ਨੈਕ ਨ ਆਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਪ੍ਰਤੀਤ ਸਜੈ ਬ੍ਰਤ ਗੋਰ ਮੜੀ ਮਟ ਭੂਲ ਨ ਮਾਨੈ ॥ਤੀਰਥ ਦਾਨ ਦਇਆ ਤਪ ਸੰਜਮ ਏਕ ਬਿਨਾ ਨਹ ਏਕ ਪਛਾਨੈ ॥ ਪੂਰਨ ਜੋਤ ਜਗੈ ਘਟ ਮੈ ਤਬ ਖਾਲਸ ਤਾਹਿ ਨਖਾਲਸ ਜਾਨੈ ॥
Jaagat Joat Japai Nis Basar Ayk Bina Man Naik Na Aanai.Pooran Prem Partit Sajai Barat Gor Marhi Matt Bhool Na Manai.Ttheerathh Daan Dayaa Tap Sanjam Ayk Binaa Neh Ayk Pashhaanai.Pooran joth jagai ghatt mai thab khaalas thaahi nakhaalas jaanai.

He, who remembers the ever-awakened Light throughout night and day and does not bring anyone else in the mind, and practices his vow with whole hearted affection and does not believe in even by oversight, the graves, Hindu monuments and monasteries; and does not recognize anyone else except One God, not even the bestowal of charities, performance of merciful acts, austerities and restraint on pilgrim-stations; the perfect light of the God illuminates his heart, then one comes to know immaculatePure from impure.

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Which Ang Sung is this shabad on? Nevermind I found my answer.

Tony Ji,
Bhagat Kabir Ji says..
Keso Keso KOOKEAYEAH...na soeayeh asaar
Keso is the "Lord with Beautiful FLOWING hair...
and Kookeayeah means SHOUT at the top of ones voice...( SIMRAN)
why the need to describe his LORD as the one with long flowing beautiful hair..and why the need to use the word KOOK (Shout) about it...
SGGS has thousands of references to ALL the Five Ks..but in symbolic ways because the TEN GURUS are ONE JYOT and not one will BREAK OFF and do something that the other NINE rejected/disagreed with/didnt want/discouraged it/thought it irrelevant. NO WAY..or we are injecting our own MANMATT into it and trying to find excuses and divide the TEN GURUS. I dotn mean any offense but this is my opinion of those who reject the TENTH NANAK as someone who did things not "sanctioned" by the NINE NANAKS as per THEIR MISREADING/MISUNDERSTANDING of the SGGS. Once we have made up our mind.its difficult to drop it...thats why "HAIR" is the Main stumbling BLOCK...to many clean shaven sikhs. The other Five Ks are inconsequential....KESHGARH is the name of the Takhat that saw the First Panj Pyara Ceremony in 1699 and the very name is solid enough proof that its HAIR that is the Central Base of the Khalsa Banna.

2. The point about the "SILENT MAJORITY" is applicable to ALL - whether Nations, families or whatever.
Another Large Forum has nearly 10,000 members but whenever a Online POLL takes place..the people taking part are NEVER MORE THAN FIVE..... =.0000how many zeros ?? And we are talking about NOT about WRITING an essay/para/one liner reply..BUT JUST CLICKING the OPTIONS and SUBMIT. That also more than FIVE persons DONT want to DO. WHY ?? a silent majority ?? Lazy Majority ?? Couldnt care less majority ?? no idea....just thats the way it is..we all live with it...

IMHO SPN has MORE posters writing large articles than any other Sikh forum. In my Gurbani class of over 34/38.... I am the One and Only Member on SPN.....but the 34 READ daily the SPN and give me comments...and I write for them...that may very well be the case with many more..IF a question has been answered already..no point in makhee te makhee marnee..swat the same fly repeatedly just to send your reply. I can Register the 34 members but since they ALL use my one Internet Network Wireless Connection..it will produce multiple ID problems...so we all read separately but since its my account..only i answer...thats how sometimes my name appears on 15 different threads within seconds- but of course I am responsible and "pass"/screen.. all the writings.

3. I have read the SGGS since I was about 5 years old..and I have taught Gurbani to hundreds...did many hundreds of Paaths/sehaj paaths/Akhand paaths...and DONT DO THIS AS A LIVING or make money out of it. I dotn know who else makes money out of reading the SGGS..but imho....those who read to make money..ususally DONT have much understanding - because the two are mutually exclusive IF one READS for MONEY..then its got to be FAST...Finish as fast as possible and collect the payment and proceed to the next paath. On the other hand i am aware that there are many who READ the SGGS to look for "loopholes"/arguments to back up their viewpoints etc. I meet such every few weeks when they meet me excitedly at having found the "perfect Tuk.......and I demolish their arguments..and they then return to their copy of SGGs to "read" once again..This is also good as we BOTH LEARN. These "readers" have other Occupations..and earn their living not from SGGS...but read sggs for their own reasons...i am in no position to judge anyone...and never will. But this much i know..Gurbani read with UNDERSTANDING/VICHAAR demolishes our Manmatt very effectivley - IF we do it sincerely. Swaal Jwaab Dovehn Kareh Moolun khuthah jaiyeh...IF we try to be smart and Double Guess the GURU..we expose our own weaknesses.

4. The "jumping" about from Hair..to Amrit..to Kirpan..to Superstition..to Meat..to Devil worship ??
I can answer ONLY for myself. My way of teaching..and illustration of Gurbani is MULTI FACETED.
NO one subject is in ISOLATION as far as i am concerned. IF someone asks me about Managing Finances..I will jump from banking to Stocks to Insurance reinsurrance assurance to Dividends cash deposits..cash inflows..etc etc. HOw does INSURANCE WORK ?..the answer will have to touch on DEPOSITS in the Current account..Savings Account..!!! and WHY money under the Mattress is NOT "insurance"...savings for a rainy Day ???..rainly day..will talk about UMBRELLAS..financial umbrellas..and ordinary ones.... snow storms..hailstones....my brain just works this way..I am not an isolationist !! Same way about SIKHI/Gurmatt/Gurbani....they are all INTER-RELATED..and Multi Faceted..I admit i do get carried away sometimes...so much DEEPER than the original poster never thought to go..but its still OK..because this spins off more questions..and then answers...after all thats what SPN is all about..as many questions answered as much by all of us...SIKHI si LIFE LONG LEARNING..it never stops...

Cheers to all

tony said:

I have heard hair is used for the making of vitamin D2 which is correct but only when the skin is completly covered and sunlight can not touch the skin i.e. animals with fur.

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Where are you getting this from?
Skin produces some types of vitamin D if I am not mistaken.
People keep asking why do we keep our hair long?
What?!? Why shouldn't we? Did we not evolve with long hair? Are long hair not a signature distinction of man from animals?

Do scientists understand why humans have long hair? Nope
Theories include, sexual selection - we are able to tell how healthy someon is by looking at their hair, so selection of a mate
Its a vestigial trait - long hair did not hinder our survival so we did not lose it, like our appendix
Functional - babies have strong grip. Why? So they can latch on to something... picture a koala with baby... replace mother koala with a human... replace baby koala with a human child clung to the hair of the parent, as the human parent works away.

See nails need to keep growing thats why there is a need to cut them because our environment is different from what it was before. Now we cannot naturally keep our nails short.

What are the reasons for cutting hair? Well, cutting of hairs was done to show control. Along with circumcision, which came later when haircuts were common. What's next??

Why were Sikhs told to keep long hair? because of the conversion process of Mughals. There seems to be no other solid reason.

I always wonder about the kara and this is the nicest explanation I heard would love to know if this is right and if it is why has it been reduced in size.

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The kara shows commitment, only little bits of the metal go through your skin. IN fact the hair on my right arm are slightly healthier, more shiny than teh hair on my left arm. I assume this is because of my kara. You can use a big one in self defense but other than that its pretty pointless.

the kachera seems pretty logical but are they neccassery now days, how many Sikhs ride horses.

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Have you ever worn a kachera? Its the most comfortable thing ever!!

The kirpan a means to protect is very out dated. one if you used it in self defence in England and the other person wasnt armed you would have a job proving that it wasnt excessive force, Most people who have claimed it was in selfdefence have failed and are doing time, also if you pull a knife out your quite likely to get shot these days and these also the fact that if one carries a weapon the other will get a bigger/ better weapon hence the nuclear arms race. thank you for your posting but still it hasnt shed any light on the need for them,

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Kirpan is useless and outdates like you said. A kara works better for self defense anyways. About it being a sumbol for protection of the weak... Who does that?? And even if you didn't have a kirpan, oyu would be able to help someone.
If nothing else a kirpan looks cool. REMOVED by poster

Hair cannot give you strength or energy, it is dead from the moment it leaves the folical it cannot repair its self nor does it require any more nutrients after being cut than if it is left uncut. It grows at the same rate reguardless,

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No sir. You will consume more materials to try and build cut hair than if your hair are uncut. Because once a hair grows to a certain length it stops. If you cut it it has to keep growing. WE assume in both cases the shedding rate is the same.

ਬੰਕੇ ਬਾਲ ਪਾਗ ਸਿਰਿ ਡੇਰੀ ॥
बंके बाल पाग सिरि डेरी ॥
Banke bāl pāg sir derī.
You make your hair beautiful, and wear a stylish turban on your head.
ਇਹੁ ਤਨੁ ਹੋਇਗੋ ਭਸਮ ਕੀ ਢੇਰੀ ॥੩॥
इहु तनु होइगो भसम की ढेरी ॥३॥
Ih ṯan ho▫igo bẖasam kī dẖerī. ||3||
But in the end, this body shall be reduced to a pile of ashes. ||3||
Page 659, Line 5

ਮੂੰਡੁ ਮੁਡਾਇ ਜਟਾ ਸਿਖ ਬਾਧੀ ਮੋਨਿ ਰਹੈ ਅਭਿਮਾਨਾ ॥
मूंडु मुडाइ जटा सिख बाधी मोनि रहै अभिमाना ॥
Mūnd mudā▫e jatā sikẖ bāḏẖī mon rahai abẖimānā.
Some shave their heads, some keep their hair in matted tangles; some keep it in braids, while some keep silent, filled with egotistical pride. [I would add any other type of hairstyle, it seems to make sense to do so; long hair, short hair, everything!]
ਮਨੂਆ ਡੋਲੈ ਦਹ ਦਿਸ ਧਾਵੈ ਬਿਨੁ ਰਤ ਆਤਮ ਗਿਆਨਾ ॥
मनूआ डोलै दह दिस धावै बिनु रत आतम गिआना ॥
Manū▫ā dolai ḏah ḏis ḏẖāvai bin raṯ āṯam gi▫ānā.
Their minds waver and wander in ten directions, without loving devotion and enlightenment of the soul.
ਅੰਮ੍ਰਿਤੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਮਹਾ ਬਿਖੁ ਪੀਵੈ ਮਾਇਆ ਕਾ ਦੇਵਾਨਾ ॥
अम्रितु छोडि महा बिखु पीवै माइआ का देवाना ॥
Amriṯ cẖẖod mahā bikẖ pīvai mā▫i▫ā kā ḏevānā.
They abandon the Ambrosial Nectar, and drink the deadly poison, driven mad by Maya.
ਕਿਰਤੁ ਨ ਮਿਟਈ ਹੁਕਮੁ ਨ ਬੂਝੈ ਪਸੂਆ ਮਾਹਿ ਸਮਾਨਾ ॥੫॥
किरतु न मिटई हुकमु न बूझै पसूआ माहि समाना ॥५॥
Kiraṯ na mit▫ī hukam na būjẖai pasū▫ā māhi samānā. ||5||
Past actions cannot be erased; without understanding the Hukam of the Lord's Command, they become beasts. ||5||
Page 1013, Line 5'



ਨਾਮਾ ਕਹੈ ਭਗਤਿ ਬਸਿ ਕੇਸਵ ਅਜਹੂੰ ਬਲਿ ਕੇ ਦੁਆਰ ਖਰੋ ॥੪॥੧॥
नामा कहै भगति बसि केसव अजहूं बलि के दुआर खरो ॥४॥१॥
Nāmā kahai bẖagaṯ bas kesav ajahūʼn bal ke ḏu▫ār kẖaro. ||4||1||
Says Naam Dayv, the beautiful-haired Lord is in the power of His devotees; He is standing at Balraja's door, even now! ||4||1||
Page 1105, Line 13
Here NamDev ji is talking about the incarnations of Vishnu (God). These guys all had long hair. (referring to Jarnail Singh ji's post)
ਕਬੀਰ ਕੇਸੋ ਕੇਸੋ ਕੂਕੀਐ ਨ ਸੋਈਐ ਅਸਾਰ ॥
कबीर केसो केसो कूकीऐ न सोईऐ असार ॥
Kabīr keso keso kūkī▫ai na so▫ī▫ai asār.
Kabeer, chant the Name of the Beautifully-haired Lord; do not sleep unaware.
ਰਾਤਿ ਦਿਵਸ ਕੇ ਕੂਕਨੇ ਕਬਹੂ ਕੇ ਸੁਨੈ ਪੁਕਾਰ ॥੨੨੩॥
राति दिवस के कूकने कबहू के सुनै पुकार ॥२२३॥
Rāṯ ḏivas ke kūkne kabhū ke sunai pukār. ||223||
Chanting His Name night and day, the Lord will eventually hear your call. ||223||
Page 1376. Kabeer is talking about Ram here. Ram is shown to have long hair. All one has to do is look at how he starts the shabad off.
Here: ਕਬੀਰ ਰਾਮੁ ਨ ਚੇਤਿਓ ਫਿਰਿਆ ਲਾਲਚ ਮਾਹਿ ॥
कबीर रामु न चेतिओ फिरिआ लालच माहि ॥
Kabīr rām na cẖeṯi▫o firi▫ā lālacẖ māhi.
Kabeer, the mortal does not remember the Lord; he wanders around, engrossed in greed.



ਕਬੀਰ ਪ੍ਰੀਤਿ ਇਕ ਸਿਉ ਕੀਏ ਆਨ ਦੁਬਿਧਾ ਜਾਇ ॥
कबीर प्रीति इक सिउ कीए आन दुबिधा जाइ ॥
Kabīr parīṯ ik si▫o kī▫e ān ḏubiḏẖā jā▫e.
Kabeer, when you are in love with the One Lord, duality and alienation depart.
ਭਾਵੈ ਲਾਂਬੇ ਕੇਸ ਕਰੁ ਭਾਵੈ ਘਰਰਿ ਮੁਡਾਇ ॥੨੫॥
भावै लांबे केस करु भावै घररि मुडाइ ॥२५॥
Bẖāvai lāʼnbe kes kar bẖāvai gẖarar mudā▫e. ||25||
You may have long hair, or you may shave your head bald. ||25||
kabir Ji Clearly says when you realize God it does not matter if you keep long hair or not. Reading the pargraph below or above is not changing the meaning here.

Conclusion: hair = neutral in Sikhism, they do not add to your good deeds nor your spirituality. keep them if you wish, otherwise, cut, whatever. noone gives a hoot!

Dear All,

Thanks for the participation in this discussion and came to know this is all the members we have on this forum.

Cordially,

Virinder

Dear Bhagat Singh ji
How can one describe God with long flowing hair when God is beyond description. Has the Hukam ever been verified and who by, If I dont ask questions how can I find answers. And I do try to follow the Gurus teachings as per SGGS ji. Btw you seem to have all the answers a little bit of I know may be. and I thought it was supposed to be Gods servant not the Gurus slave. you have made your choice please allow me to make mine based on the truth. An identity creates ego, leave it with you to think about
Tony

tony ji

I have been following the discussion and cannot help but feel how frustrated you are. May I offer an answer from a different angle.

The reasons for the 5 K's may not be found in answers stemming from another's "truth." This seems to be what you are looking for: reasoning and experiences that will convince you even as they have worked for someone else. That could be why you keep posing the same question in different ways.

My two cents on this. You will be convinced to keep Kara Kesh Kanga Kachera Kirpan by reasons that come from within you yourself. If the time comes then the reasons will be clear to you. No one else will convince you. If I am wrong and you are not feeling frustrated, then please forgive me.

tony said:

two very strong statements to ignore your post in future no moral content just ego,

Click to expand...

Tony Ji please reconsider my post.