Should Rehatanams Be Amended With Changing Times

Please Discuss.

[Remember I'm not Sikh]

Rehatnamas, to my knowledge were not written by any of the Gurus, so why should Sikhs follow them? Rehatnamas are based on social and moral laws, I don't even think rehatnamas should exist. Sikhs should take Guruji as their guide and no other scripture as authority.

~CaramelChocolate~
The little philosopher

P.S. Please forgive me and correct me if I have gotten anything wrong, my knowledge on rehatnamas [esp. its origin] is very limited.

Hey,
My knowledge on rehatnamas is also very limited. The best source regarding this issue is you should read the book on Guru Gobind Singh and the Khalsa Discipline by Dalip Singh for more clarification.
It also clears up the misconception about the zafernama and Fatehnama.
Did have a look at amazon.com(co.uk) and found few copies. Will be ordering mine so will let u know as soon.....

Rehatnaamas collecting dust.

Rehatnaamas are the moral codes by which we conduct ourselves by, in any society we live in, on this little speck of sand in IK ONG KAAR'S realm called the Earth.

Rehatnaamas are supposed to be based on the concept of MIRI - PIRI. MIRI meaning, coping with our daily hurdles of making a living,educating our kids and any other material possessions we may want to have, what Abraham Maslow calls the must needs in order to grow spiritually (cultivate PIRI) in his famous 'the Maslow Triangle'. Articles - Abraham Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

MIRI-PIRI was named as such by Guru Hargobind Sahib, however the concept was started by Guru Nanak in his 3 step formula.

1. Naam Japnah
2. Kirat Karni
3. Vand kei Chaknah

PIRI is the spiritual side, the foundation of MIRI. Sans PIRI, MIRI becomes nothing but walloping in the grime of MAYA.

As the laws of the land change with time, so should the laws of MIRI meaning Rehatnaamas, so they are at par with our everyday MIRI PIRI life. If they are not moulded to our current requirements, then Rehatnaamas become stumbling blocks rather than stepping stones.

A Sikh, the follower of this universal faith who is living in all parts of the world knows very well what adapting to different cultures mean. A Sikh can practice her/his Kirat anytime, anywhere ( thanks for not having SABBATH, the day God rests according to some faiths). A Sikh adopts the way of MIRI according to the enviorment he/she has become the product of.

One more important point I would like to re-emphacise is that Sikhi is IDEA based. Gurmat Ideas can not be stagnant, they are dynamic. The proof of this is that it took about 250 years, from Guru Nanak to Guru Granth Sahib with the sacrifices of Guru Arjan Dev, Guru Tegh Bahadur and the four sahibzadas, to defend the Sikh Ideology of universal love and understanding.

If Rehatnaamas do not reflect the expanse of ideas with time then they become still waters.

And as they say, ' Still waters breed mosquitoes whereas gushing water mould boulders'.

Peace and Love

Tejwant

CaramelChocolate said:

[Remember I'm not Sikh]

Rehatnamas, to my knowledge were not written by any of the Gurus, so why should Sikhs follow them?

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Rehatnamas were enforced by Guru, and He asked sikhs to follow those rules i.e. rehats. About changing rehatnamas as per changing times, I dont agree with that, as then we say ourselves being smarter than Guru. Perhaps I am a rigid one! but definitely not a blind faither.

Rehatnamas were enforced by Guru, and He asked sikhs to follow those rules i.e. rehats. About changing rehatnamas as per changing times, I dont agree with that, as then we say ourselves being smarter than Guru. Perhaps I am a rigid one! but definitely not a blind faither.

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ThinkingOne Ji,

Guru Fateh.

A Sikh is a seeker, a learner, a student, a proactive but not a passive Soormah.

Hence rather than enforcement a sikh needs encouragement to do always right. Our Gurus did not enforce on us to read GURBANI. They rather instilled in us the desire to make GURBANI the foundation block of our lives.

As someone said,'the sole duty of a Teacher (Guru) is to create the desire and motivation in students to seek.'

The above fits like a glove in Sikh's relationship with The Guru.

Enforcement is by force. It is an impostion.

Love for IK ONG KAAR will always be through internal manifestation never by external imposition.

The only REHATNAAMA- THE SIKH WAY OF LIFE- our Gurus gave us directly lies in GURU SHABAD of GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Tejwant

VaheguruSeekr said:

ThinkingOne Ji,

Guru Fateh.

A Sikh is a seeker, a learner, a student, a proactive but not a passive Soormah.

Hence rather than enforcement a sikh needs encouragement to do always right. Our Gurus did not enforce on us to read GURBANI. They rather instilled in us the desire to make GURBANI the foundation block of our lives.

As someone said,'the sole duty of a Teacher (Guru) is to create the desire and motivation in students to seek.'

The above fits like a glove in Sikh's relationship with The Guru.

Enforcement is by force. It is an impostion.

Love for IK ONG KAAR will always be through internal manifestation never by external imposition.

The only REHATNAAMA- THE SIKH WAY OF LIFE- our Gurus gave us directly lies in GURU SHABAD of GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI.

Bhul Chuk Maaf.

Tejwant

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Although it is highly unlikely that any changes can be done into the rehat maryada in the near future, but still what changes that you would like to see be implemented according to your understanding of Sikhism?

Please continue.

Although it is highly unlikely that any changes can be done into the rehat maryada in the near future, but still what changes that you would like to see be implemented according to your understanding of Sikhism?

Please continue.

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Critical Singh ji,

Guru Fateh,

I am neither a scholar, nor a historian and do not intend to be either. I am just a seeker like all of us here who has been given the honor to think aloud with the Sadh Sangat.

I will leave the changes in the hands of the learned. I personally think that we should have a universal THINK TANK made of GOD LOVERS that are well educated and have a deep knowledge of Sikhi. This THINK TANK should be in sync with SGPC so that we can create an atmosphere of harmony with one goal in mind, that is to learn about ourselves through GURBANI.

One never knows, we may find some in this forum.

Peace & Love

Tejwant Singh

Thanks for your guidance VaheguruSeekr ji.
The only REHATNAAMA- THE SIKH WAY OF LIFE- our Gurus gave us directly lies in GURU SHABAD of GURU GRANTH SAHIB JI. Could you please explain what is Guru Shabad. I hear this word so often nowadays.

Further, About changes in rehatnama:
1. Originally, there are 5 Ks. Kirpan is gone with reduced form of a few inches.
2. I see new Amritdharis with a neck thread with symbolic forms of Kangha, Kirpan, Khanda. Kesh are definitely kept, and Kachcha is also in its place, and Karra may be a golden one. Going by this neck thread logic, or symbolic form, I am scared to see a day, when neck thread also contains bunch of kesh in a capsule, or a picture of Kachcha in that. I might appear an arrogant one, but with all due respect to Khalsa, my only concern is reduction of 5 Ks into symbolic forms, thats why I am writing these things.
Due to this, modification of rehatnama is something not digestable to me, as these are modifications by human. And if u people go with my logic proposed, u may ask me - will u be riding a horse to an office to program for neural networks. I know this is an awkward. Change is certainly required, but in what way, not in values at least. Rehatnama is something whose update is not something which gels my thoughts properly.

Sangat, please enlighten this confused one with ur kind words.

GURU SHABAD is the fuel that horsepowers a Sikh to live under the umbrella of GURMAT.

Peace & Love

Tejwant

I am not good at deciphering knowledgable words. Please reply in layman's language for the benefit of mine.

Does Guru Shabad mean reciting of Gurubani? Next level cud be to grasp the delicacies of those words in Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji. Further, of course to implement them in our own lives.

Thanks much.

ThinkingONE ji,

Guru Fateh.

I admire your inquisitive quest to seek. .

What I mean by that is GURU SHABAD is the essence of Rehat. Through GURU SHABAD vichaar we find the building blocks of our Sikhi.

I would also urge you to check the following thread.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/threads/gurmat-and-dhamma-a-study-by-dr-kanwar-ranvir-singh.67/

Peace & Love

Tejwant

Dear Tejwant ji,
Thanks for the link. This was a good one to read and get better perspective. I got stuck up at Naam Japnah, which talks abt it not being a lip service. I need more pondering on that myself.
So Guru Shabad means - follow Rehat, and understand Rehat? Is that so?
Regards.

GurFateh Jio!

I dont think its possible to ammend Rehitnaama's. They are essentially Hukams of the Guru, so we can't even imagine thinking of changing Bani, let alone Rehitnaamey. Also, we dont have much unity amongst ourselves, so sadly the ammendments may not mean much to most people of different Jatha's.

GurFateh Jio!

I dont think its possible to ammend Rehitnaama's. They are essentially Hukams of the Guru, so we can't even imagine thinking of changing Bani, let alone Rehitnaamey. Also, we dont have much unity amongst ourselves, so sadly the ammendments may not mean much to most people of different Jatha's.

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Saihajleen Kaur ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am confused by your response. It seems the first part contradicts the second one. Can you please elaborate what you mean?

Thanx

Peace & Love

Tejwant

I apologise. I had no idea Jaskeerat (freespirit) had logged on my computer.

Sorry about that.

Tejwant

Quote:
GurFateh Jio!

I dont think its possible to ammend Rehitnaama's. They are essentially Hukams of the Guru, so we can't even imagine thinking of changing Bani, let alone Rehitnaamey. Also, we dont have much unity amongst ourselves, so sadly the ammendments may not mean much to most people of different Jatha's.

Saihajleen Kaur ji,

Guru Fateh.

I am confused by your response. It seems the first part contradicts the second one. Can you please elaborate what you mean?

Thanx

Peace & Love

Tejwant

GurFateh Jio

I just think there could be two reasons for not changing them. Personally, I dont believe they should be changed as they are universal guidelines for all Sikhs, of any generation. Sikhi is so advanced that it is not necessary to change it to suit changing times. In fact, some of what science is discovering with time has already been covered by our Guru's.

Second reason as to why it may not be possible for the changes to work is that we have so little unity amongst us. If there were changes, everyone would have their own opinions and different Jatha's might not even accept them. Sorry for confusing you before, hope you're not even more confused now, lol. If you are, just ignore me !

Fateh Ji

Saihajleen Kaur said:

Second reason as to why it may not be possible for the changes to work is that we have so little unity amongst us. If there were changes, everyone would have their own opinions and different Jatha's might not even accept them. Sorry for confusing you before, hope you're not even more confused now, lol. If you are, just ignore me !

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Yes, but people already have different opinions on them now, which means if they aren't working for ALL Sikhs now, will they ever work? NO.
Guruji is universal - it is poetic and this shows its greatness and allows people to find their own guidelines from Guruji. Rehatnama is someones philosophy on Guruji put in a book of hardcore solid rules. There are many interpretations and views on Guruji and rehatnamas are just ONE.

~CaramelChocolate~
The little philosopher

You're right Caramel. I agree with you.

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Saihajleen Kaur said:

Sikhi is so advanced ...

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Also, Sikhi is so advanced, why is this scripture even needed?

~CaramelChocolate~
The little philosopher