Ardaas Changed

AT the main Gurdwara in FINLAND's Capital City, the Parbhandak Committee has taken a revolutionary step...along the lines of what I see as what Martin Luther did in the 16th century that led to the Protestant Church coming into existence and challenged the Catholic Church and its Pope.

What the Gurdwara Sangat has done in unanimous decision is to change the First line of the Ardass..from Pritham Bhaugauti simar ke..to Pritham AKAL PURAKH SIMAR KE..
Secondly they have ADDED the mention of the 35 BHAGATS whose GURBANI is in the SGGS after the Mention of Char sahibzadehs, and also the Concluidng Dohra has been restored to its original - Panth Khalsa janio Pargat guraan ke DEH, Jo Prabh ko mil bo chaheh KHOJ shabad meh leh.

Another far reaching decision is not to use any bani from dsm Granth in the Gurdwara - ONLY GURBANI from SGGS.

1. Will this GURDWARA/Committee/SANGAT be "excommunicated"....as Bhai Kala Afghana was ??

2. Will this begin an avalanche of such....as the SGPC and Takhat jathedars have steadfastly REFUSED to handle and discuss this sensitive subject for so long...this could be the First..as was Martin Luther in the 15th Century..who eventualy led to the SCHISM of Protestant Church Breakaway from the catholics and its Pope/vatican/ papal hierachy ( read SGPC/Takhat jathedars in ref to Sikhism). I feel its a "disaster" just waiting to happen if the SGPC/Jathedars continue to SLEEP.

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OMG!!!! {censored} is wrong with people. They are making Sikhi a joke now days. Some serious steps need to be taken to stop this, its Ardas now next it might be our history .

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The Committee has taken the wrong step in doing something like this without consulting the Akal Takht and the Panth. A decision like this should be an informed one. There are many issues already in the panth that have not been resolved - this will just add too all the mayhem in the panth already, and has done the Sikhs Panth no favours at all. Im very disappointed.

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Shame on them that they cut name of Sridevi Bhagawati Durga with Akal Purakh (Kal Purush Mahadev) against the Gurbani of Great Gurus of Sikh sect and Guru Granth Sahib!

These shows a total anti-feminine atiitude of the members there as it is only Dharmic Bharatiya Religion such as Buddhism (Devi Tara & Abolokiteswar Shiva), Jainism, Hinduism, etc where feminine characteristic is attributed to GOD!

It is only this Indian tradition where many even outside Sanatan Hinduism accept whole universe as one, same and equal to God - Advaita Vedanta! This Pantheism was also found amoung Islamic Sufis and some Christian sects but mainstream Islam or Pope don't accept that and it seems that these Christianised Sikhs have dumped their ancestors, totally to please their majority host population of Finland!

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Ranghi29.
Kindly donot use {censored}.We hear enough of it every here else. Just a thought.

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this change in Ardas is made for the good and i dont think there is anything debatable on this..

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it is very bad. if sangat wants change, the order of sri akal takhat sahib ji is final:}--}:

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In my opinion..Nothing has been done wrong...

We all know this has been a long standing issue around panth but SGPC has been ignoring it for a long time only from the fear that it is a sensitive topic.
But they have neither done anything to educate the society for the need of change nor they have tried to do anything. Topics are sensitive only to the point they are misunderstood. Misunderstanding does not go away without dealing with the topic.

As some one said "The only good is knowledge and the only evil is ignorance"

They(SGPC) have been ignoring this issue.

The approach taken by Finland Gurudwara may or may not be right..I don't know..But the cause for taking this step is right.

And I dont think it is anything about showing anti-faminine attitude at all..but It is about extending the theme of Guru Granth Sahb into Ardaas. Sikhs are never told to worship idols..they are only told to worship The True God. And Akal Purkh could not be translated as Kal Purush Mahadev as the very starting lines of Guru Granth sahb explain "Karta Purkh" as formless. It is just a way to address GOD. True Sikhs have due respect for females and will continue to do so.

"Sou kyo Manda Aakhiye ,,Jit Janme Rajjan"

The other thing as said by "aspadda" decisions like this should be informed. Sudden Changes are never accepted easily because they lack communication to mass.
I would say "Kise nave Kapde nu Paun ton pehlan.. Sikhna painda ai k pauna kiven ai" or "to wear a new suit on..everyone needs to learn how to put it on "

But now the suit is there some will wear it and some won't

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Thank you, Gyani Jarnail Singh, for presenting this news.

Honestly, do these people believe they are more intelligent than those hundreds of brilliant minds that composed the Ardaas and 'cemented' the wordings of Ardas? Do they believe they are more intelligent or more powerful than Guru Gobind Singh himself, to change the wordings? All I wish to add here is - there are people in this world who change themselves to suit the religion and there are others who change the religion to suit themselves.

From my understanding, this is simply one of the many ways in which Khalsa is not remaning as one anymore (or remaining for that matter). Why are people concentrating on changing what has been set and approved by the Gurus and has been existent for hundreds of years? That too, on such specific details? The basic essence of Sikhism is slowly diminishing amongst the people as events such as this one (changing Ardaas) is. Why make life complicated when Sikhism has made it so simple.

On the topic of the Dasam Granth, there is much debate on this issue already. To my understanding, Guru Gobind Singh Ji told the Sikhs that the Guru Granth Sahib Ji is our one and only Guru, noone and nothing else. Indivdual opinions will differ and many questions arise - I leave it to the individual to decide.

God willing, this issue will be righfully resolved in the correct manner and that it doesn't cause a chain of such events.

I do not intend to insult anyone with my comments. Please forgive my young and learning mind.

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Either they believe that what our Gurus created was old and needs to be changed .. but if that that is the case then no big deal tommorow they will say that Guru Granth sahib is not appropriate we should review it. Let me give these stupids a call.

1.Ardas is not Gurbani.
2.Ardas is not a Mantra if not said in a particular manner or with some additons or subtractions, it will result in catastrophe.
3. When any religion gets cramped by rituals then it seizes to be a liberating force that it is meant to be.
Anybody can argue for any number of hours on what is right or wrong. I Can argue endlessly on the importance of not changing the words of the ardas. But then I will be loosing on the essence of sikh religion. Remember Ardas is just a prayer. Say it in any manner and any language and anywhere. To whom it is addressed will understand and accept.

NOTHING can be changed from PRITHAM BHAUGAUTI SIMAR KE, UPTO, TEG BAHADUR SIMAR KE, GHAR NAUNITDH AAVEH THAE. These words of the Ardas ARE wtitten by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji & ARE ecthed in stone. Beyond this, any changes are merely debateable.

Bhaugauti means SHAKTI, it is the Akal Purakh !!!! So why change something that means the same thing. It makes NO sense. We should be dwelling on the shabad INSTEAD of trying to change it to our own benefits.
Ardass is an important part of Gurbani.
Guru Fateh.

sounds like the first change - from Bagauti to Akal Purkh - stems from a bit of hinduphobia... Guru Sahib wrote Bagauti, no need to change this part... all this hindu phobia is misplaced anyway as it all stems from Britain's and the BJP's divide and conquer attitude that has become so engrained in the culture now. there is no Hindu, there is no Musalman [there is no Sikh]. Aside from the first part, The rest of the ardas should not be and has never been standardized. The most important thing is that the Guru's Bani MUST NEVER BE CHANGED!!!! The mention of the Bhagats is a nice idea to keep their memory alive; after all we also bow to them.

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Rajwinder said:

Either they believe that what our Gurus created was old and needs to be changed .. but if that that is the case then no big deal tommorow they will say that Guru Granth sahib is not appropriate we should review it. Let me give these stupids a call.

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They think themselves to be above Guru Ji??????????

Bhul chuk lai maafi ji

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Dear All,

IMHO prayer and its words can be individualized but have a question from where did 35 Bhagats came; where as a breakdown of the 5,867 hymns found in the Guru Granth Sahib; include the writings of 6 Gurus, 15 Bhagats (of different faiths), 3 Sikh Bards, 8-17 Bhatts, and Raag Mala?

Cordially,

Virinder

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Rajwinder said:

Either they believe that what our Gurus created was old and needs to be changed .. but if that that is the case then no big deal tommorow they will say that Guru Granth sahib is not appropriate we should review it. Let me give these stupids a call.

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Rajwinder ji

You are calling attention to the problem of where to draw the line. Once one change is justified, then another can be explained, and then another one, and another one....;until the Siri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj itself become the target of modification and change -- and we know that there are political interests already to zoom in on that too. So thanks for making this point incisively.

But here is what my sneaking suspicion is about this situation. Finland is an isolated country in a lot of ways. The Internet and air travel connect us all that is true. But there is a kind of "insularity" in Finnish culture. To do it alone, to go it alone, to survive against odds, to be self-directed and like that. Changes to Ardaas are not unthinkable, but changes in any aspect of Sikh devotion have historically taken time and taken place through collective nternational discussion among sangats and scholars -- in order to insure that there is the benefit of collective wisdom.

So why did the Finns take off like this. My hypothesis is that some political interests crept into the sangat, that more traditional minds and voices were somehow silenced (I don't know how or why), and that the perplexed sangat did not know how to find or seek the help and advice of other sangats because of what I said above. Do it alone, go it alone, survive against odds, fix it -- and don't look outside for help.

Amazing and it will surely have a big ripple, no wave, perhaps tsunami effect in weeks to come.

Honestly, do these people believe they are more intelligent than those hundreds of brilliant minds that composed the Ardaas and 'cemented' the wordings of Ardas?

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Fo the record, people should also bear in mind that the contents of ardas has changed before, as recently as after partition.

I find it strange that bhagauti is removed though. I know people can use that term to refer to Chandhi but it can also mean sword.

The term Ardas stems from a Persian term which essentially means a petition before a sovereign.

It has always evolved over time. But it should be changed with a collective will, so it reflects the wishes of the sarbat panth, not in isolation.

Beginning of Ardas is from the time of Sri Gobind singh ji. This ardas was prevalent among sikhs much before initiation of khalsa. I have seen a tablet of ardas with a sikh professor dating back to 1690.

These gurnindaks have no knowledge of sikh traditions. Especially this Inder Ghagha who has been a communist in his life and was driver with Punja state electricity board is instigating ignorants to change sikh traditions.

I find it strange that bhagauti is removed though. I know people can use that term to refer to Chandhi but it can also mean sword.

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In chandi di vaar we read

Lai bhaguati durgseh varjagan bhari

( Durga took fire emitting bhgauti ( sword) in her hand
and fought a fierce battle)

Bhagauti is a sword symbolising Akal purakh.

Dear Members, This is a very good start to change from the entenched 17th century ritualistic Sikhi to the 21st century. I welcome this courageous stand by the Finland Parbandaks of forthright and foresight. I hope and pray that the other Sikhs of Diaspora get their guidance from this initiative. There are many (and many) worthless rituals in Sikh customs which go against the very fundamental grain of Sikh Gurbani and the teachings of our Gurus. Let us propogate Sikh and Sikhi of AGGS, and move away from the Khalsa rituals which are more akin to Brahmanism. (period).
-par (parminder)singh
usa