Ajmer Singh ji
Let's go back to the beginning of the thread for the sake of members and nonmembers alike who are confused by this discussion
(not because they are stupid or uninformed but because they cannot figure out the thread of discussion).
Your opening comments:
Khalsa veer jio,
ਵਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕਾਖਾਲਸਾਵਹਿਗੁਰੂਜੀਕੀਫਤਿਹਜੀ ||
quoted material from Post 1 I was studing a translation of Japuji Saahab by Dr.T R Shangari, who taught Gurbaani and Sufi kalaam to the students of Punjab UniversityAt DAV College,Jalandhar.(Punjab). Whils translating first Pauri of Japu ji Sahab,"Sochey soch na hovai je sochey likh waar !!"
Being a follwer of Radhaswami sect, by the grace of Guru ji he was not enlightened to translate these lines in its true form. Guruji didn't worship to be able to express actual meanings as he had bifurcated from the path of Sikhism.
This shows what he would have taught his students in his carrier as a Gurbaani teacher. He would have certainly prepared the scholars towards Radhaswami sect but distancesed himself from the blessings of Guru ji(Akal Purakh).
In translation he describes the meanings of 'soch' as passing the stool or human excreta. he further says tHAt the meanings of 'SOCH' SEEMS CONNECTED WITH THE CLEANLINESS OF BODY.
Though i can assume the meanings but i request all the partcipants of this forum to describe It's meanings themselves and define in detail please.
Ajmer Singh Randha wa. end of quoted material
I am not one to call "heretic" or "beadbi" at the slightest suggestion of disagreement. But there are some serious problems with the teaching of Dr. T. R. Shangari. And frankly to make the claim he has made would indeed require him, if not force him, to "bifurcate" as you put it to take the side of a sect, or even to start a sect of his own. If I pull a rabbit out of my pocket and call it "Gurmukh" that is just as much an insult of the Guru as the statement that
"Sochey soch na hovai je sochey likh waar !!" has something to do with human excrement. But that is what this conversation is starting to look like -- rabbits are being pulled out everywhere in the form of pseudointellectual commentary and discussed with clever commentary and very little in the way of links to sources and plain old-fashioned Gurmata.
The only sure test of a vichaar of Gurbani is a test of internal consistency with Gurbani itself.
There is nothing in the pauree that connects "Sochey soch na hovai je sochey likh waar !!" to cleanliness or to human excreta.
Here is the pauree
ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ ॥
sochai soch n hovee jae sochee lakh vaar ||
By thinking, He cannot be reduced to thought, even by thinking hundreds of thousands of times.
ਚੁਪੈ ਚੁਪ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਲਾਇ ਰਹਾ ਲਿਵ ਤਾਰ ॥
chupai chup n hovee jae laae rehaa liv thaar ||
By remaining silent, inner silence is not obtained, even by remaining lovingly absorbed deep within.
ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਨ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ ॥
bhukhiaa bhukh n outharee jae bannaa pureeaa bhaar ||
The hunger of the hungry is not appeased, even by piling up loads of worldly goods.
ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਤ ਇਕ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥
sehas siaanapaa lakh hohi th eik n chalai naal ||
Hundreds of thousands of clever tricks, but not even one of them will go along with you in the end.
ਕਿਵ ਸਚਿਆਰਾ ਹੋਈਐ ਕਿਵ ਕੂੜੈ ਤੁਟੈ ਪਾਲਿ ॥
kiv sachiaaraa hoeeai kiv koorrai thuttai paal ||
So how can you become truthful? And how can the veil of illusion be torn away?
ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥
hukam rajaaee chalanaa naanak likhiaa naal ||1||
O Nanak, it is written that you shall obey the Hukam of His Command, and walk in the Way of His Will. ||1||
There is nothing related to cleanliness, nor anything to remind us of excrement, at this point in the bani Sahib. A person does not have to like the translation of Dr. Sant Singh to understand that the pauree tells us that material acquisitions and intellectual accomplishment will not tear away the veil of illusion. And this also includes clever tricks. How did Guru Nanak Dev suspect we would fall time and again even in this thread? The only things that will tear away that veil, that will bring us to our Sat, our truthful nature, is to obey the hukam of His command and walk in dharma.
I want to add after conversation with respected forum member Tejwant ji -- The pauree also tells us that meditation with rapt attention will not make Him accessible. Observing silence will not make him accessible. Piling up provisions to feed the hungry will not make Him accessible (because the hunger referred to here is spiritual hunger). Cleverness will not make Him accessible. (added later)
So that leaves open the question -- does having clean intestines have any connection whatsoever to obeying His hukam or walking in dharma? And the answer is NO. How do we know that?
Because on ang 374 Guru Arjan Dev says that our physical being is of no consequence if we are seeking the darshan of Waheguru.
ਬਿਸਟਾ ਅਸਤ ਰਕਤੁ ਪਰੇਟੇ ਚਾਮ ॥
bisattaa asath rakath paraettae chaam ||
you are just excrement, bones and blood, wrapped up in skin
And so mental obsessions with our bowels and its by-products are obstacles to attaining the Light of His Name. How do I know?
ਨਉ ਖੰਡ ਪ੍ਰਿਥਮੀ ਫਿਰੈ ਚਿਰੁ ਜੀਵੈ ॥
no khandd prithhamee firai chir jeevai ||
You may roam over the nine continents of the world and live a very long life;
ਮਹਾ ਉਦਾਸੁ ਤਪੀਸਰੁ ਥੀਵੈ ॥
mehaa oudhaas thapeesar thheevai ||
you may become a great ascetic and a master of disciplined meditation
ਅਗਨਿ ਮਾਹਿ ਹੋਮਤ ਪਰਾਨ ॥
agan maahi homath paraan ||
and burn yourself in fire;
ਕਨਿਕ ਅਸ੍ਵ ਹੈਵਰ ਭੂਮਿ ਦਾਨ ॥
kanik asv haivar bhoom dhaan ||
you may give away gold, horses, elephants and land;
ਨਿਉਲੀ ਕਰਮ ਕਰੈ ਬਹੁ ਆਸਨ ॥
nioulee karam karai bahu aasan ||
you may practice techniques of inner cleansing and all sorts of Yogic postures;
ਜੈਨ ਮਾਰਗ ਸੰਜਮ ਅਤਿ ਸਾਧਨ ॥
jain maarag sanjam ath saadhhan ||
you may adopt the self-mortifying ways of the Jains and great spiritual disciplines;
ਨਿਮਖ ਨਿਮਖ ਕਰਿ ਸਰੀਰੁ ਕਟਾਵੈ ॥
nimakh nimakh kar sareer kattaavai ||
piece by piece, you may cut your body apart;
ਤਉ ਭੀ ਹਉਮੈ ਮੈਲੁ ਨ ਜਾਵੈ ॥
tho bhee houmai mail n jaavai ||
but even so, the filth of your ego shall not depart.
And the self mortifying ways that Guru Arjan Dev ji refers to here in Raag Sukhmani was the habit of Jains to spread out their feces on a daily basis and inspect them, smell them, in order to make determinations of inner balance, and to preserve any traces of worms so they would not be killed. It is a matter of fascination that sects cast off the liberation offered them by the rare realized soul that visits in a century and chase after rituals. Often and for whatever reason, clean intestines play a role in that. 
Very strange.
However there is a connection between "Sochey soch na hovai je sochey likh waar !!" and cleanliness. I
n sriRaag Guruji explains in many places that this is all part of the filth of ego. The filth of ego cannot be washed away. It cannot be removed by studying it is not removed by bathing, and it is not addressed in a satisfactory way by an obsessed focus on intestinal cleanliness.
I wonder how many other forum members and forum visitors who have been reading this thread share with me this question. Where are you coming from?
