Being Vegan And The Karah Prashad

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
waheguru ji ki fateh

For a long time now I have been a vegetarian, and slowly consuming fewer and fewer milk/egg product. I wish to continue this, and stop eating any kind of animal products. This truly feels right for me to do.

I do have a problem though, as the topic suggests. That is the karah prashad, and langar in general. The karah prashad contains, as we know, ghee (clarified butter). What am I to do with this? One cannot refuse the blessing, and yet, I do not feel right in eating it. The langar also serves milk products in some foods, but there it should be easier to say no these foods, even though it still creates a less than desireable situation. It is also possible to avoid the langar all together, but this seems a weird thing to do.

What is the origin of the karah prashad? How would people react if I said I was a vegan, and therefore not accepting the karah prashad?

In advance, thank you for your reply!

Sat sri akaal!

Re: Being vegan, and the karah prashad.

Do you mind me asking why you are becoming vegan?
Thanks,
Jasleen

Re: Being vegan, and the karah prashad.

Not at all! First off, It's because I do not condone the way milk producs and eggs are taken from animals. Of course, you can find as natural as possible versions of the two, like organic milk etc. coming from cows that is living in natural environment, and thus have recieved no chemicals (many cows get sick from living the way they do in normal farms).
In the end though, I feel that taking advantage of an animal in any way seems wrong. Also, I see no logical explanation to why we should be drinking the milk of a cow meant for a calf. There are also numerous health related reasons I am sceptical to the consumption of milk and egg.

But, as I said, this is what I mean.

Quantonium ji,
I totally respect your sentiments. This is truly a difficult scenario! Have you explored alternative options such as alternative types of milk and free range products? I think in the end it comes down to priorities. There are some sects that don't partake of langar or prashad as they don't consider it 'pure' enough unless made by certain people in a certain way. There is a lot of resentment among others Sikhs as they feel they are being judged unfairly. Different situation but this is one possible reaction you may receive.

I think the wonderful thing about langar and prashad is not that they are blessed per se but the meaning of them-the equality and the way it brings people from all backgrounds/walks of life together. There is a sense of community and togetherness. There is also a great sense of sharing which is good for controlling ego.

My mum's friend has coeliac disease (intolerance to wheat) so she only has the tiniest amount of parshad possible as anymore makes her ill. However, that way she doesn't feel left out and is still honouring the meaning. The rest she gives away to family and friends so that is one possibility.

In the langar you could stick with just daal and roti as they will be pretty safe bets mostly. Many sabzis also don't use any dairy products either as in the west cooking is usually done with oil rather than ghee. Alternatively you could speak to the Gurdwara about switching the type of milk they use. They'll probably be reluctant without financial help as it is more expensive. You could try checking out the farm from where the milk and other products come from but in the supermarket age this can be difficult.

I'm not sure what else to suggest! It all depends on which sentiment is stronger in the end! Hope this helps

I also respect your views. I have considered removing milk from my diet for the same reasons. Eggs I don't mind if they are from a small farm or friends who have chickens, and I know they are not battery hens or kept in nasty conditions.

My personal opinion concerning karah prashad, with all due respect, would be not to worry about it as it is only a small amount, it is blessed, it is special, it is meaningful, and it's going to be made in most gurdwaras for a very, very long time. Karah prashad will be there, the cow's milk has already been taken, so I guess my questions is "why not take the karah prashad and appreciate it for what it means and symbolises?" The efforts you are putting in to the rest of your life to minimise harm and chemicals are already wonderful and I don't think you should feel any guilt for accepting karah prashad.

I like Jasleen Ji's comments about langar. You should be able to find something without milk in it, even if it's just the rice and salad!

Just my personal opinion, I hope I have no caused any offence.

Ishna

Thank you both for your answers! It did help me clear up my thoughts! I'll take the karah prashad. And in the langar, daal and roti is what I enjoy the most anyway

Outside of the gurdwara however, I will become a total vegan when that time comes. I do have problems finding a good substitute for cheese though. I don't use cheese on anything else than pizza, but pizza is my favorite food! Problematic.. Well, that's another issue that I'm sure I'll figure out later. Waheguru provides!

Thank you again!

Good luck in your quest to become a vegan, Quantonium! cheerleader

You might be able to find something called 'Savoury Yeast Flakes' from health food stores. I have some, it looks like yellow fish food flakes and stinks a bit but it has a vaguely cheesy taste -- in my cook books it's been recommended for use in vegan macaroni cheese and pizza-type recipes for flavour. It's also a very, very good source of Vitamin B12 which you can only get in sufficient quantities from meat and eggs (as is my understanding).

Getting a product with the texture of cheese might be challenging. I know you can get soy cheese but I haven't tried it and don't know if it would "melt" and go stringy like mozzarella. *starts to drool on the keyboard *

If you're looking for a non-dairy milk alternative, I recommend fortified rice milk. 1) I personally prefer the taste to it over soy milk -- less nutty. 2) I've read about soy being a lot better for you when it's fermented into tofu -- it's not real good for you as milk, but that's just what I've read. I drank rice milk for a year and when I went back to cow milk it tasted so sour and slimy and gross I wondered how I ever liked it!

Do keep us updated with your progress! I know these things can take a while to integrate into ones lifestyle though, so no pressure.

Ishna

Thanks for the advice! I'll check out these Savoury Yeast Flakes! Of course, few things come close to good cheese, like parmesan, cheddar.. cantal... emmentaler......
I'm actually using a soy milk which I like, but I've yet to try rice milk (even though we have some in the fridge at the moment.. Hmm concidence?).

Oh, and P.S. B12 actually formes in our lower intestines, and comes from a certain bacteria that comes from the soil! The problem is of course that we wash our vegetables, because of the pesticides, and so gain very little or no B12. But as you said, there are many ways to get it, even my soy milk has it. It's added from a microbial version grown in labs.

I'll keep you guys updated!
Sat sri akaal

I wondered where they got the Vitamin B12 from to fortify our vegie food! I'm looking at my gluten sausages with suspicion wondering "did they take the B12 out of a cow and put it in my supposedly vegetarian sausages, because that would be defeating the purpose..." teehee!

There's also a cool product called Quorn which is a type of micro-fungus apparently which is a protein alternative. Problem with Quorn is they make it into products my using egg whites as a binder or something, which is one of those same sneaky catches. In the UK the Quorn company (don't know what they're called) has taken to using free range eggs to appeal to a wider vegetarian market, but that doesn't help the vegans!

Anyway, now I'm going off topic, so I'll be quiet now! whistlingkudi

Ishna

Hehe that's the exact thought that made me try to find out where the B12 came from as well!

My family actually uses Quorn a lot! We've been adding it to tacos etc. I don't eat it any more, because of the eggs, but it'a really good choice for people who don't mind the egg!

See you later!
Quantonium

Dont have the kraa bro. You are actually following sikhism by politely declining.
I'm sure they wont mind if you ask for a piece of fruit instead. You can tell them you have a Dairy intolerance. Worst comes to worst if you feel compelled to accept it then pass it to your neighbour. Im sure they wont mind a double helping

Quantonium said:

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
waheguru ji ki fateh

For a long time now I have been a vegetarian, and slowly consuming fewer and fewer milk/egg product. I wish to continue this, and stop eating any kind of animal products. This truly feels right for me to do.

I do have a problem though, as the topic suggests. That is the karah prashad, and langar in general. The karah prashad contains, as we know, ghee (clarified butter). What am I to do with this? One cannot refuse the blessing, and yet, I do not feel right in eating it. The langar also serves milk products in some foods, but there it should be easier to say no these foods, even though it still creates a less than desireable situation. It is also possible to avoid the langar all together, but this seems a weird thing to do.

What is the origin of the karah prashad? How would people react if I said I was a vegan, and therefore not accepting the karah prashad?

In advance, thank you for your reply!

Sat sri akaal!

Click to expand...

MakSingh said:

Dont have the kraa bro. You are actually following sikhism by politely declining.

Click to expand...

And how exactly is that? Care to elaborate?

Quantonium said:

Re: Being vegan, and the karah prashad.

Not at all! First off, It's because I do not condone the way milk producs and eggs are taken from animals. Of course, you can find as natural as possible versions of the two, like organic milk etc. coming from cows that is living in natural environment, and thus have recieved no chemicals (many cows get sick from living the way they do in normal farms).
In the end though, I feel that taking advantage of an animal in any way seems wrong. Also, I see no logical explanation to why we should be drinking the milk of a cow meant for a calf. There are also numerous health related reasons I am sceptical to the consumption of milk and egg.

But, as I said, this is what I mean.

Click to expand...

God bless you. I am a lacto-vegetarian and am very worried about the conditions dairy cows (in the US at least) have to endure, what happens to the calves, etc. My current plan is to not buy any diary products outright but won't put up a fuss when I am offered a diary-containing product such as parshad, paneer at langar or at someone else's house, cha, etc. It might not be 100% abstention but it will at least minimize what effect I am personally having on cows. In today's world it seems impossible to get away from the culture of death and advantageousness. You buy an inexpensive shirt and find out it was made in a sweatshop. You use your cell phone then see a you tube about how the ingredients in the battery were mined by 4 years old children for only pennies payment. In most cases the electricity you use to light your home and use your computer was created by fossil fuels. The taxes you pay support a despotic government. I hate to be a downer, but it seems that no matter how hard we try we are unable to divorce ourselves entirely from abuse.

Amardeep Singh 1000 said:

God bless you. I am a lacto-vegetarian and am very worried about the conditions dairy cows (in the US at least) have to endure, what happens to the calves, etc. My current plan is to not buy any diary products outright but won't put up a fuss when I am offered a diary-containing product such as parshad, paneer at langar or at someone else's house, cha, etc. It might not be 100% abstention but it will at least minimize what effect I am personally having on cows. In today's world it seems impossible to get away from the culture of death and advantageousness. You buy an inexpensive shirt and find out it was made in a sweatshop. You use your cell phone then see a you tube about how the ingredients in the battery were mined by 4 years old children for only pennies payment. In most cases the electricity you use to light your home and use your computer was created by fossil fuels. The taxes you pay support a despotic government. I hate to be a downer, but it seems that no matter how hard we try we are unable to divorce ourselves entirely from abuse.

Click to expand...

There is one cellphone company that actually uses cows to mine the batteries, so you need to be doubly worried!

As regards Karah Prashad, the sugar in it can also be a problem for diabetics and others who avoid sugar. The solution here is simple. Eat only a small amount.
If you are a vegan diabetic with celiac disease, you may have a problem without solution. Sorry.

It is not about free range eggs or dairy or organic farms, to breed animals requires sexual abuse and exploitation of a female reproductive system which is sinful. All animals whether free range, organic or lactose intolerant go to hell which are what slaughterhouses are essentially....the rate at which animals are bred makes free range and organic just a fancy term to exploit animals as reality is not rosy. There is no need to pass disgusting, unhealthy and harmful products to your neighbours either. Demand a ban. Each animal bred in farming industry lives a short life and is murdered when merely a child in most cases. There is no such thing as humane rape (forced breeding or insemination) or slaughter. Hens are also genetically engineered to produce 100 times more eggs and cows modified to produce much more milk by repeated insemination (rape) and made pregnant year after year to keep them lactating continously to meet high global demand. Most male infants of egg and dairy industry are killed on day of birth in such industrial farms that supply in most shops as egg and dairy products need females. Fecus and blood or slaughter waste contaminates rivers and seas horribly as 160 billion land animals and 3 trillion fish are killed annually and more then ten billion trees razed to create space to breed them. The right thing to do is grow fruit trees, green earth and eat fruit and fruit like vegetables (human food of evolution of ape men), especially in each homed we should have self sufficiency instead of slaving in money system. Animal products are from naraka. Put yourself in the animal's body (empathy) and decide if it is good or bad to be born as a commodity, sold in market, bred in confinement, produced as a slave and your ovulations or breastmilk stolen and your babies and yourself killed unnecessarily when it is completely natural, possible, healthful, sustainable economically and environmentally to eat vegan alternatives, especially fresh fruit and vegetables that grow on trees and grow back when harvested without killing. When it is an option in the hand of someone else, what would you regard the consumer of animal products of such unnecessary violence as, Angel or violent demon, Saint or sinner, human or inhuman? Moreover numerous human and animal diseases and germs are spread adding to sins if we continue to demand animal products of dairy, honey, meat, silk, leather, meat, fish, eggs and so on. There is no benefit of consumption of animal products and is simply sins of gluttony, violence, greed and human pride or ego. No sane or normal person can accept animal farming as it is completely unnatural to forceably domesticated and enslave someone, endanger them, destroy trees by deforestation to clear land to graze them, add to hunger, water, land shortage and kill human children as well as cause climate change. It simply is time for all humans to wake up regardless of religion or lack of it because moral values are universal and only require a heart or common sense, not wordy scriptures or gurus. Of course gurdwaras can and should ban dairy as well and teach right ways of living just as any sensible religion or temple, church, masjid or any place religious or non religious should.

Quantonium said:

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
waheguru ji ki fateh

For a long time now I have been a vegetarian, and slowly consuming fewer and fewer milk/egg product. I wish to continue this, and stop eating any kind of animal products. This truly feels right for me to do.

I do have a problem though, as the topic suggests. That is the karah prashad, and langar in general. The karah prashad contains, as we know, ghee (clarified butter). What am I to do with this? One cannot refuse the blessing, and yet, I do not feel right in eating it. The langar also serves milk products in some foods, but there it should be easier to say no these foods, even though it still creates a less than desireable situation. It is also possible to avoid the langar all together, but this seems a weird thing to do.

What is the origin of the karah prashad? How would people react if I said I was a vegan, and therefore not accepting the karah prashad?

In advance, thank you for your reply!

Sat sri akaal!

Click to expand...

Thank you for asking this question. I have become vegan as well as I do not wish to do any harm to animals and it's also better for the planet. I am going to try to make my own parshad at home with vegan butter. I can keep you posted.

Quantonium said:

Waheguru ji ka khalsa
waheguru ji ki fateh

For a long time now I have been a vegetarian, and slowly consuming fewer and fewer milk/egg product. I wish to continue this, and stop eating any kind of animal products. This truly feels right for me to do.

I do have a problem though, as the topic suggests. That is the karah prashad, and langar in general. The karah prashad contains, as we know, ghee (clarified butter). What am I to do with this? One cannot refuse the blessing, and yet, I do not feel right in eating it. The langar also serves milk products in some foods, but there it should be easier to say no these foods, even though it still creates a less than desireable situation. It is also possible to avoid the langar all together, but this seems a weird thing to do.

What is the origin of the karah prashad? How would people react if I said I was a vegan, and therefore not accepting the karah prashad?

In advance, thank you for your reply!

Sat sri akaal!

Click to expand...

You are talking about vegans. Vegetarians can be Lacto-Ovo or Lacto depending on consuming eggs and milk products or just milk products as many of us already know. Most of the people in India including Sikhs practice Vegetarianism for health reasons and also to not kill the animals. So most of the Vegetarians consume milk and it's good source of protein and you don't kill any animal. Eggs are normally not consumed because they have potential to produce life. Although with advancement of science we have unfertilized eggs.

Answer to your question is simple after above explanation: In old times and even now for most of the Sikhs milk and milk products are part of vegetarian diet. So this is the first time I have read vegetarian having problem with Karah Prasad and langar. For Sikh non-vegetarian food is only when meat is served. Hope it helps.

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If you dont condone how milk products, dairy products, non veg food is produced then you might also wanna have a look at how Vegan/ vegetarian food is produced lol, it makes ZERO sense to be vegan

If Guruji commanded us to eat karah prasad prepared a certain way, then isn't that sufficient reason to categorically do so i.e., with ghee? By the very same rationale kesh is kept.

Another aspect is that Guruji gave an open-ended command to live healthfully. But vegans would insist that in the final analysis ameliorating the suffering of animals trumps the nutritional needs/wants of Sikhs. While the former ideal is noble in itself, it must be admitted that this is a foreign importation to the Sikhi ideology. In point of fact veganism is very unhealthy, particularly for the brain:

• How a vegan diet could affect your intelligence
• Vegan and Plant-Based Diets Worsen Brain Health - Neuroscience News
• The Vegan Brain

Finally, consider the wider ramifications of a monistic view of the universe. Doesn't this mean that life and death are two sides of the same coin? Then where is the "sin" of meat here? Didn't Guru Hargobind and Guru Gobind hunt animals? Are we to believe they did it for mere sport?

None these objections justify things like factory farming of course. But factory farming is a solvable problem in principle. Doing other than Guruji's hukam is not.