What Do You Visualize When You Think Of Ik▫oaŉkār ੴ

Ambarsaria · Dec 19, 2011

As we get more understanding of the creator in life, we start to visualize certain imagery representing our understanding. It may be as simple as just a void, a Universe of waves and matter in a blob, some Guru jis visualization based on imagery from paintings, or some other things unique to each one of us.

For example when I visualize Ik▫oaŉkār ੴ I see the following when I close my eyes:

I generally see it as,

A. With Eyes Open:

An ever changing mass of matter that embeds parts of other things and life in us and vice versa. When I touch I impart a part of me in what I touch and the object does the reverse. So we are like an entity in continuous exchange from far and wide as well as close and near.

B. With Eyes Closed

Like in 2 below

Do you experience some thing like that or perhaps one of the following,

A saintly figure
Universe of gases, lights and shapes so slowly transforming
Darkness with light rays
Nothing at all

In my visualization it is all “One Continuum” or “One”.

It will be interesting to exchange thoughts, comments and ideas.

Sat Sri Akal.

Tejwant Singh · Dec 19, 2011

Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

Why is the visualsation important or a must? Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent? One can enjoy the awe and the wow factors that we are surrounded by. The Truth as in the first pauri of Jap needs no visualisation. Only make believe imaginary things need that.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Ambarsaria · Dec 19, 2011

Tejwant Singh said:
Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

Why is the visualsation important or a must? Ik Ong Kaar is omnipresent? One can enjoy the awe and the wow factors that we are surrounded by. The Truth as in the first pauri of Jap needs no visualisation. Only make believe imaginary things need that.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Veer Tejwant Singh ji I am not suggesting it is important. Just what comes to mind. Question is not necessarily seeking it either. May be just hallucination in a way. So perhaps not a good thing.

I assume your answer is "Nothing at All".

I simply shared my thoughts.

Sat Sri Akal.

spnadmin · Dec 19, 2011

I will take a big step and say unreservedly, "Nothing at All."

Ambarsaria · Dec 19, 2011

spnadmin said:
I will take a big step and say unreservedly, "Nothing at All."

From above comments it appears I am a very visual person. Shame on me lol:angryyoungkaur:

Sat Sri Akal.

BhagatSingh · Dec 19, 2011

Ambarsaria ji, I am also a very visual person but I don't see any images.

But I know many Sikhs that see Guru Nanak or one of the Gurus as an image for IkOankar so you are not alone when it comes to seeing images.

Scarlet Pimpernel · Dec 19, 2011

Veer Ji ,I visualize that I am the visualization.

BhagatSingh · Dec 19, 2011

Sp ji,
Sounds interesting. How so?

Scarlet Pimpernel · Dec 19, 2011

Musketeer Ji we are ones that are Gods visualization ,so how can he be visualized by his own visualization.
Hold on some people with white coats have just knocked the door!

Ambarsaria · Dec 19, 2011

Scarlet Pimpernel said:
Musketeer Ji we are ones that are Gods visualization ,so how can he be visualized by his own visualization.
Hold on some people with white coats have just knocked the door!

Baby Brother Veer sp ji when did I say I saw God. I simply say I see me extending in nearness and see farther extending towards us and all around. Kind of 1 but that is creation and not the creator or is it! I am so confused :singhbhangra:

:interestedmunda:. The girl is dancing, the guy is playing Tabla and the girl is eating pop corn, and why not kaurhug . Oh no, a man is hugging you too ikonkaar

Sat Sri Akal.

Ishna · Dec 19, 2011

A fascinating topic, Ambarsaria bhaji (or uncle -- what's uncle in Punjabi??).

I chose 'other' because the visualisation changes depending on the mood. Sometimes (and most usually) it's a soup... other times it's just a mind-blowing energy stretching from before time to after time... it's very hard to explain!

Tejwant Singh · Dec 19, 2011

The wonderful thing about Sikhi is that it teaches us to eliminate visualisation and turn it into realisation which requires some more steps than just sitting and parroting any few words.

The religions based on deity gods need the visual of some being super or not because that is the basis of their religion.

The New Age religions also believe in the visualisation, that is the reason the small models of operated on AC/DC water falls(not Abba's song) became mode de jour in the guise of some meditation.

Bhagat Singh ji: you write,

But I know many Sikhs that see Guru Nanak or one of the Gurus as an image for IkOankar so you are not alone when it comes to seeing images.

As our Gurus did not have their portraits done on purpose, so what people visualise is what is being fed to them as our Gurus which I personally think is an insult and part of the ignorance gentry who call themselves Sikhs. As insulting as to the cartoonists who "cartooned" Mohammed whose picture/face no one has seen. All those designs looked like Sikh figures.

Tejwant Singh

Ambarsaria · Dec 19, 2011

Veer Tejwant Singh ji I do want to flag couple of things for consideration. When I read Gurbani I don't assume that it was written by Guru ji and put away to be published. I see in my mind Guru ji giving discourses, providing courage to the meek to think different, think aside from their existing religions pressures and doctrines. It is likely that I am 100% wrong but when we see some of the characterizations of nature, animals, humans and their actions, it becomes a visualization in addition to respectful wisdom to learn from. I find it a marvelous personal experience that way.

Sheikh Farid ji do it in even more vivid ways. Let us review couple of their saloks,

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ਫਰੀਦਾ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਲੋਇਣ ਜਗੁ ਮੋਹਿਆ ਸੇ ਲੋਇਣ ਮੈ ਡਿਠੁ ॥

फरीदा जिन्ह लोइण जगु मोहिआ से लोइण मै डिठु ॥

Farīḏā jinĥ lo▫iṇ jag mohi▫ā se lo▫iṇ mai diṯẖ.

Fareed, those eyes which have enticed the world - I have seen those eyes.

ਫਰੀਦ! ਜਿਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਅੱਖਾਂ ਨੇ ਦੁਨੀਆਂ ਨੂੰ ਫਰੇਫਤਾ ਕਰ ਲਿਆ ਸੀ, ਉਹ ਅੱਖਾਂ ਮੈਂ ਵੇਖੀਆਂ ਹਨ।

ਲੋਇਣ = ਅੱਖਾਂ।

ਹੇਫਰੀਦ! (ਇਸ ਦਿੱਸਦੀ ਗੁਲਜ਼ਾਰ, ਪਰ ਅਸਲ ਵਿਚ, 'ਗੁਝੀ ਭਾਹਿ' ਵਿਚ ਮਸਤ ਜੀਵ ਨੂੰ ਕੁਝਸੁੱਝਦਾ-ਬੁੱਝਦਾ ਨਹੀਂ। ਪਿਆ ਮਾਣ ਕਰਦਾ ਹੈ। ਪਰ ਮਾਣ ਕਾਹਦਾ?) ਜਿਹੜੀਆਂ (ਸੋਹਣੀਆਂ)ਅੱਖਾਂ ਨੇ ਜਗਤ ਨੂੰ ਮੋਹ ਰੱਖਿਆ ਸੀ, ਉਹ ਅੱਖਾਂ ਮੈਂ ਭੀ ਵੇਖੀਆਂ,

Farid, I have seen the eyes that enchanted the world

ਕਜਲ ਰੇਖ ਨ ਸਹਦਿਆ ਸੇ ਪੰਖੀ ਸੂਇ ਬਹਿਠੁ ॥੧੪॥

कजल रेख न सहदिआ से पंखी सूइ बहिठु ॥१४॥

Kajal rekẖ na sėhḏi▫ā se pankẖī sū▫e bahiṯẖ. ||14||

Once, they could not endure even a bit of mascara; now, the birds hatch their young in them! ||14||

ਉਹ ਸੂਰਮੇ ਦੀ ਲਕੀਰ ਤਾਂ ਸਹਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਨ ਸਕਦੀਆਂ, ਪ੍ਰੰਤੂ ਹੁਣ ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਵਿੱਚ ਪਰਿੰਦਿਆਂ ਨੇ ਬੱਚੇ ਦਿਤੇ ਹੋਏ ਹਨ।

ਸੂਇ = ਬੱਚੇ। ਬਹਿਠੁ = ਬੈਠਣ ਦੀ ਥਾਂ ॥੧੪॥

(ਪਹਿਲਾਂਤਾਂ ਇਤਨੀਆਂ ਨਾਜ਼ਕ ਸਨ ਕਿ) ਕੱਜਲ ਦੀ ਧਾਰ ਨਹੀਂ ਸਹਾਰ ਸਕਦੀਆਂ ਸਨ, ਫਿਰ ਉਹ ਪੰਛੀਆਂਦੇ ਬੱਚਿਆਂ ਦਾ ਆਹਲਣਾ ਬਣੀਆਂ (ਭਾਵ, ਅਸਾਡੇ ਸਾਹਮਣੇ ਸਰੀਰਕ ਸੁੰਦਰਤਾ ਆਖ਼ਰ ਨਿੱਤ ਨਾਸਹੋ ਜਾਂਦੀ ਹੈ, ਇਸ ਤੇ ਮਾਣ ਕੂੜਾ ਹੈ) ॥੧੪॥

Ones that could not tolerate eye liner, now birds so sit and hatch there

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ਫਰੀਦਾ ਥੀਉ ਪਵਾਹੀ ਦਭੁ ॥
फरीदा थीउ पवाही दभु ॥
Farīḏā thī▫o pavāhī ḏabẖ.
Fareed, become the grass on the path,
ਫਰੀਦ! ਤੂੰ ਰਸਤੇ ਦੀ ਕੁਸਾ ਹੋ ਜਾ,
ਥੀਉ = ਹੋ ਜਾ, ਬਣ ਜਾ। ਪਵਾਹੀ = ਪਹੇ ਦੀ, ਰਸਤੇ ਦੀ। ਦਭੁ = ਕੁਸ਼ਾ, ਘਾਹ।

ਹੇ ਫਰੀਦ! ਤੂੰ ਪਹੇ ਦੀ ਦੱਭ (ਵਰਗਾ) ਬਣ ਜਾ,

Farid become grass on a dirt path

ਜੇ ਸਾਂਈ ਲੋੜਹਿ ਸਭੁ ॥
जे सांई लोड़हि सभु ॥
Je sāŉ▫ī loṛėh sabẖ.
if you long for the Lord of all.
ਜੇਕਰ ਸਾਰਿਆਂ ਦੇ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਨੂੰ ਚਾਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈਂ।
ਜੇ ਲੋੜਹਿ = ਜੇ ਤੂੰ ਲੱਭਦਾ ਹੈਂ। ਸਭੁ = ਹਰ ਥਾਂ, ਸਭ ਵਿਚ।

ਜੇ ਤੂੰ ਮਾਲਕ (-ਪ੍ਰਭੂ) ਨੂੰ ਹਰ ਥਾਂ ਭਾਲਦਾ ਹੈਂ (ਭਾਵ, ਵੇਖਣਾ ਚਾਹੁੰਦਾ ਹੈਂ)।

If looking for creator everywhere

ਇਕੁ ਛਿਜਹਿ ਬਿਆ ਲਤਾੜੀਅਹਿ ॥
इकु छिजहि बिआ लताड़ीअहि ॥
Ik cẖẖijėh bi▫ā laṯāṛī▫ah.
One will cut you down, and another will trample you underfoot;
ਜਦ ਇਕ ਜਣਾ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਭੰਨ੍ਹ ਤੋੜੂਗਾ ਤੇ ਦੂਜਾ ਤੈਨੂੰ ਲਤਾੜੂਗਾ,
ਇਕੁ = ਇੱਕ ਨੂੰ, ਕਿਸੇ ਦੱਭ ਦੇ ਬੂਟੇ ਨੂੰ। ਛਿਜਹਿ = (ਲੋਕ) ਤੋੜਦੇ ਹਨ। ਬਿਆ = ਕਈ ਹੋਰ (ਦੱਭ ਦੇ ਬੂਟੇ)। ਲਤਾੜੀਅਹਿ = ਲਤਾੜੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ।

(ਦੱਭ ਦੇ) ਇਕ ਬੂਟੇ ਨੂੰ (ਲੋਕ) ਤੋੜਦੇ ਹਨ, ਤੇ ਕਈ ਹੋਰ ਬੂਟੇ (ਉਨ੍ਹਾਂ ਦੇ ਪੈਰਾਂ ਹੇਠ) ਲਤਾੜੇ ਜਾਂਦੇ ਹਨ।

Ones will cut, many others trample

ਤਾਂ ਸਾਈ ਦੈ ਦਰਿ ਵਾੜੀਅਹਿ ॥੧੬॥
तां साई दै दरि वाड़ीअहि ॥१६॥
Ŧāŉ sā▫ī ḏai ḏar vāṛī▫ah. ||16||
then, you shall enter the Court of the Lord. ||16||
ਕੇਵਲ ਤਦ ਹੀ ਤੂੰ ਪ੍ਰਭੁ ਦੇ ਦਰਬਾਰ ਅੰਦਰ ਪ੍ਰਵੇਸ਼ ਕਰੇਗਾ।
ਸਾਈ ਦੈ ਦਰਿ = ਮਾਲਕ ਦੇ ਦਰ ਤੇ। ਵਾੜੀਅਹਿ = ਤੂੰ ਵਾੜਿਆ ਜਾਏਂਗਾ, (ਭਾਵ,) ਕਬੂਲ ਹੋਵੇਂਗਾ ॥੧੬॥

(ਜੇ ਤੂੰ ਇਹੋ ਜਿਹਾ ਸੁਭਾਉ ਬਣਾ ਲਏਂ) ਤਾਂ ਤੂੰ ਮਾਲਕ ਦੇ ਦਰ ਤੇ ਕਬੂਲ ਹੋਵੇਂਗਾ ॥੧੬॥

Then you will enter creator’s door
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

So in my mind the visualizations that spring relate to such and extensions there of. Fortunate are some who have experienced many descriptions in nature, by people and the like as it ads an extra dimension to understanding.

Sat Sri Akal.

PS: I have translated Sheik Farid ji's entire Bani from SGGS. I may post in the future if there is interest in such. My concern is that my style is different from the teacher-student, excessive humble attachments to straight translations, etc. I do this to simply not add to Guru ji's and others thoughts that I can understand from their writings.

Many are not used to this, many don't like this style, so I am a little gun shy that way. I do it for my own understanding and enjoyment and sharing is icing on the cake if of use to spners.

Appreciate comments or suggestions always.

Ambarsaria · Dec 19, 2011

Sorry got a little carried away with Gender-bender logic in (http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-...hat-do-you-visualize-when-you.html#post158221).

Point is that reality may be different than what we see and what we see may be different from the truth. "Philosophically speaking"!

When one's mind starts to paint pictures from learning it is a unique experience/hallucination/visualization? Whether worth anything or not, hard to say. Perhaps helps us remember some of the thoughts on a sustained basis.

Sat Sri Akal.

Tejwant Singh · Dec 19, 2011

Ambarsaria ji,

Guru Fateh.

Veer Tejwant Singh ji I do want to flag couple of things for consideration. When I read Gurbani I don't assume that it was written by Guru ji and put away to be published. I see in my mind Guru ji giving discourses, providing courage to the meek to think different, think aside from their existing religions pressures and doctrines

Well said & I totally agree. Interactions and discussions with all kinds of peoples were the main ingredients of the Sikhi recipe because the meek, the low caste, the outcast were not allowed to have any kind of dialogues with those who held the religious powers.

Regards

Tejwant Singh

Ambarsaria · Dec 19, 2011

Ishna said:
A fascinating topic, Ambarsaria bhaji (or uncle -- what's uncle in Punjabi??).

I chose 'other' because the visualisation changes depending on the mood. Sometimes (and most usually) it's a soup... other times it's just a mind-blowing energy stretching from before time to after time... it's very hard to explain!

Ishna Bahin ji don't worry about uncles/aunts it becomes rigid to dialog. Veer ji/Bha ji for male and Bhain ji (I think some spell it like Pain ji lol but I stand corrected) for female I find very loving and non imposing or threatening. As long as there is a Ji at the end (wonderful tradition at spn), all else works just fine too. Well almost all else lol

What is the little beautiful looking thing you holding in your Avatar? Appears held with love, or that is what I visualize mundahug.

Sat Sri Akal.

Navdeep88 · Dec 20, 2011

Ambarsaria Ji,

Probably the one with the light rays, except more concentrated, like one (Ik) center of light? Sorry, I guess that makes me kinda lazy, but it seems to be the most simple visualization.

But the second option of :Universe of gases, lights and shapes so slowly transforming, is very different and cool.
[/FONT]

Harry Haller · Dec 20, 2011

Ambarsariaji,

My imagination is quite vivid, I see planets all swirling through masses of space, shooting stars, giant mountains, I see myself from above, and then I pull back so that me becomes Essex, becomes the UK, becomes Europe, the world, the solar system, the universe, and then everything all swirling and growing and learning.

However, As Tejwantji might point out, I never learn anything, its just remarkable to be in wonder and awe of creation, however, sometimes we should all take a break now and then and visualise what it is we are learning to be part of, it may be nil in terms of new information, but it can be motivating to know in which direction your study is taking you

Ishna · Dec 20, 2011

Ambarsaria said:
Ishna Bahin ji don't worry about uncles/aunts it becomes rigid to dialog. Veer ji/Bha ji for male and Bhain ji (I think some spell it like Pain ji lol but I stand corrected) for female I find very loving and non imposing or threatening. As long as there is a Ji at the end (wonderful tradition at spn), all else works just fine too. Well almost all else lol

What is the little beautiful looking thing you holding in your Avatar? Appears held with love, or that is what I visualize mundahug.

Sat Sri Akal.

Ok brother ji, you got it.

And don't thank me for the avatar, thank Google image search. Not my hand (unfortunately!), but apparently the critter is a baby echidna (Aussie porcupine).

*sits on her off-topic hands before adminji slaps them*

Kanwaljit.Singh · Dec 20, 2011

There is a pattern

http://www.freedmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/0815-sci-webSCIILLO1.jpg

What Do You Visualize When You Think Of Ik▫oaŉkār ੴ

What do you visualize when you think of Ikoaŉkār ੴ

A saintly figure

A universe of gases, lights and shapes so slowly transforming

Darkness with light rays

Nothing at all

Other. Please explain in the thread.

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

Tejwant Singh

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

spnadmin

1947-2014 (Archived)

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

BhagatSingh

Scarlet Pimpernel

We seek him here,we sikh

BhagatSingh

Scarlet Pimpernel

We seek him here,we sikh

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

Ishna

Tejwant Singh

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

Tejwant Singh

Ambarsaria

ੴ / Ik▫oaŉkār

Navdeep88

Harry Haller

Ishna

Kanwaljit.Singh

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