To Live In Truth

chazSingh · May 28, 2014

Sat Sangat Ji,

in many threads i often read comments a long the lines of "a sikh should live in truth" but many a time this is often just an open ended comment and could mean a multitude of things to each individual.

Gurbani makes countless references a long the lines of "How rare are those who, as Gurmukh, live the Truth"

It would be good if we can get sangats views on what is to "LIVE IN TRUTH" to them.

Maybe to keep posts short and straight to the point if you could list four or five bullet points.

Waheguru

chazSingh · May 28, 2014

1. To make efforts to know (through experience - not just study) the truth of reality - what is temporary/illusory and what is permanent in terms of what we experience on the outside and what Gurbani says is within us. (to know thyself and to know Waheguru)

2. to know (not just believe) that nothing exists other than Waheguru

3. once knowing/seeing/feeling that all is Waheguru, to then live 100% a fearless, loving, compassionate, truthful, honest and courageous life with my fellow beings throughout the duration of my experience of creation. (at the moment although effort is made by myself to do all the above, all my actions still contain elements of the 5 thieves)

4. to know and feel how the 5 thieves (within our minds) pull our attention (consciosness) away from the permanent reality (waheguru) and keep us locked into the temporary creation through attachment, greed, desires, ego and anger - and then to pull away from them once i see their opposing nature

(2, 3 and 4 are probably all sub-sections to point 1)

Waheguru

Harry Haller · May 28, 2014

1. to be on the outside as you are in the inside
2. to not be hypocritical
3. to follow the laws of truth, to implement them and live them

the laws of truth are the wisdom encapsulated in the SGGS, so living them is different to japping them, to really embrace them so they become habit is to me, what being a Sikh is all about

SaintSoldier1699 · May 28, 2014

Awareness that there is one guaranteed thing in life, that is death, understanding this should mean we live a life of consciousness, being aware of our thoughts, actions, reactions.

Understanding the ego at all levels of spiritual development, our wants, our aspirations, our demands/expectations etc.

Ultimately being at peace within leads to peace without.

arshdeep88 · May 28, 2014

Accepting the Truth,accepting one's own faults ,mistakes honestly sometimes seems hard but acceptance clears the door for the progress ahead.

chazSingh · May 28, 2014

arshdeep88 said:
Accepting the Truth,accepting one's own faults ,mistakes honestly sometimes seems hard but acceptance clears the door for the progress ahead.

this is a good one "accepting ones own faults" ... only through accepting our faults can we walk on the road to change.

Thanks for your post ji

chazSingh · May 28, 2014

harry haller said:
1. to be on the outside as you are in the inside
2. to not be hypocritical
3. to follow the laws of truth, to implement them and live them

the laws of truth are the wisdom encapsulated in the Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, so living them is different to japping them, to really embrace them so they become habit is to me, what being a Sikh is all about

I fall into the 'hypocritical' box many times...
i find the only way not to be hypocritical is to not judge anyone...and to sort out my own shortcoming before commenting on others...

but its easier said than done

arshi · May 28, 2014

Baitath, ootath, sovat, jaagat visar naahen too<SUP>n</SUP> saas giraasa (378-6)
Whilst sitting, standing, asleep or awake and with every morsel of food may I never forsake You O Lord.<?"urn:<img src=" />

Appreciate all the above posts and here a few more in a nutshell:

● Breathe and inhale Sikhi
● Hear and absorb Sikhi
● Sleep and dream Sikhi
● Live and walk Sikhi

University: Humanity
Course: Sikhi
Core reading: Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji
Supplementary reading: Rehatnama; Bhai Gurdas, Bhai Nand Lal jios

chazSingh · May 28, 2014

i know i asked short an concise answers from everyone but i think it's only right to introduce some Gurbani.

I came across this great shabad which i think highlights many aspects of LIVING IN TRUTH - living beyond duality, living beyond hot and cold, good and bad, praise and blame etc etc... so difficult to comprehend such a state of being, such a state of living

<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td> ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
सिरीरागु महला ५ ॥
Sirīrāg mėhlā 5.
Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl:
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਦੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਸੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਮੰਧੇ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਸਗਲਾਣਾ ॥
दुक्रित सुक्रित मंधे संसारु सगलाणा ॥
Ḏukariṯ sukariṯ manḏẖe sansār saglāṇā.
The whole world is engrossed in bad deeds and good deeds.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਦੁਹਹੂੰ ਤੇ ਰਹਤ ਭਗਤੁ ਹੈ ਕੋਈ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਜਾਣਾ ॥੧॥
दुहहूं ते रहत भगतु है कोई विरला जाणा ॥१॥
Ḏuhhūŉ ṯe rahaṯ bẖagaṯ hai ko▫ī virlā jāṇā. ||1||
God's devotee is above both, but those who understand this are very rare. ||1||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਸਰਬੇ ਸਮਾਣਾ ॥
ठाकुरु सरबे समाणा ॥
Ŧẖākur sarbe samāṇā.
Our Lord and Master is all-pervading everywhere.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਿਆ ਕਹਉ ਸੁਣਉ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤੂੰ ਵਡ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸੁਜਾਣਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
किआ कहउ सुणउ सुआमी तूं वड पुरखु सुजाणा ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ki▫ā kaha▫o suṇa▫o su▫āmī ṯūŉ vad purakẖ sujāṇā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
What should I say, and what should I hear? O my Lord and Master, You are Great, All-powerful and All-knowing. ||1||Pause||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਮਾਨ ਅਭਿਮਾਨ ਮੰਧੇ ਸੋ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਨਾਹੀ ॥
मान अभिमान मंधे सो सेवकु नाही ॥
Mān abẖimān manḏẖe so sevak nāhī.
One who is influenced by praise and blame is not God's servant.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਤ ਸਮਦਰਸੀ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਕੋਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਮੰਧਾਹੀ ॥੨॥
तत समदरसी संतहु कोई कोटि मंधाही ॥२॥
Ŧaṯ samaḏrasī sanṯahu ko▫ī kot manḏẖāhī. ||2||
One who sees the essence of reality with impartial vision, O Saints, is very rare-one among millions. ||2||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਹਨ ਕਹਾਵਨ ਇਹੁ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਕਰਲਾ ॥
कहन कहावन इहु कीरति करला ॥
Kahan kahāvan ih kīraṯ karlā.
People talk on and on about Him; they consider this to be praise of God.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਥਨ ਕਹਨ ਤੇ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕੋਈ ਵਿਰਲਾ ॥੩॥
कथन कहन ते मुकता गुरमुखि कोई विरला ॥३॥
Kathan kahan ṯe mukṯā gurmukẖ ko▫ī virlā. ||3||
But rare indeed is the Gurmukh, who is above this mere talk. ||3||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗਤਿ ਅਵਿਗਤਿ ਕਛੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਨ ਆਇਆ ॥
गति अविगति कछु नदरि न आइआ ॥
Gaṯ avigaṯ kacẖẖ naḏar na ā▫i▫ā.
He is not concerned with deliverance or bondage.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਰੇਣੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਨੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੨੬॥੯੬॥
संतन की रेणु नानक दानु पाइआ ॥४॥२६॥९६॥
Sanṯan kī reṇ Nānak ḏān pā▫i▫ā. ||4||26||96||
Nanak has obtained the gift of the dust of the feet of the Saints. ||4||26||96||
</td></tr></tbody></table>

Sherdil · May 28, 2014

This is a good question. It is actually the first question asked in gurbani.

"Kiv sachiaara hoiyeh? Kiv kooreh tooteh paal?" How can we become truthful? How can we break through the illusion of falsehood?

"Hukam razaai chalna. Nanak likhiya naal." Walk willingly with the Hukam. Nanak shows the way.

So maybe it would be prudent to start with the concept of Hukam, and then build from there.

chazSingh · May 28, 2014

Sherdil said:
This is a good question. It is actually the first question asked in gurbani.

"Kiv sachiaara hoiyeh? Kiv kooreh tooteh paal?" How can we become truthful? How can we break through the illusion of falsehood?

"Hukam razaai chalna. Nanak likhiya naal." Walk willingly with the Hukam. Nanak shows the way.

So maybe it would be prudent to start with the concept of Hukam, and then build from there.

i think hukam opens a can of worms when it comes to opinions, concepts, thoughts if what it is

it is a thread in itself...maybe we can start one up...i think there are already some out there.

what i think i can gather from Gurbani...hukam at an early stage is commands that we can gather from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji...in terms of living our lives, in terms of where to seek waheguru ji, in terms of becoming aware that the world is not our true reality...

i think at a higher level, when one can see, hear only God...the hukam is his shabad forming, guiding the creation like the currents in the water...and we are 100% attuned to it very deep within our own being...we are part of this flow and not resisting (Ego)

my head starts to hurt when i think about it...which usually tells me hukam at a very deep level is something i won;t be able to comprehend with my mind or something i can give justice to through language...

God Bless Ji

ActsOfGod · May 28, 2014

chazSingh said:
i know i asked short an concise answers from everyone but i think it's only right to introduce some Gurbani.

I came across this great shabad which i think highlights many aspects of LIVING IN TRUTH - living beyond duality, living beyond hot and cold, good and bad, praise and blame etc etc... so difficult to comprehend such a state of being, such a state of living

<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td> ਸਿਰੀਰਾਗੁ ਮਹਲਾ ੫ ॥
सिरीरागु महला ५ ॥
Sirīrāg mėhlā 5.
Siree Raag, Fifth Mehl:
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਦੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਸੁਕ੍ਰਿਤ ਮੰਧੇ ਸੰਸਾਰੁ ਸਗਲਾਣਾ ॥
दुक्रित सुक्रित मंधे संसारु सगलाणा ॥
Ḏukariṯ sukariṯ manḏẖe sansār saglāṇā.
The whole world is engrossed in bad deeds and good deeds.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਦੁਹਹੂੰ ਤੇ ਰਹਤ ਭਗਤੁ ਹੈ ਕੋਈ ਵਿਰਲਾ ਜਾਣਾ ॥੧॥
दुहहूं ते रहत भगतु है कोई विरला जाणा ॥१॥
Ḏuhhūŉ ṯe rahaṯ bẖagaṯ hai ko▫ī virlā jāṇā. ||1||
God's devotee is above both, but those who understand this are very rare. ||1||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਠਾਕੁਰੁ ਸਰਬੇ ਸਮਾਣਾ ॥
ठाकुरु सरबे समाणा ॥
Ŧẖākur sarbe samāṇā.
Our Lord and Master is all-pervading everywhere.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਿਆ ਕਹਉ ਸੁਣਉ ਸੁਆਮੀ ਤੂੰ ਵਡ ਪੁਰਖੁ ਸੁਜਾਣਾ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
किआ कहउ सुणउ सुआमी तूं वड पुरखु सुजाणा ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Ki▫ā kaha▫o suṇa▫o su▫āmī ṯūŉ vad purakẖ sujāṇā. ||1|| rahā▫o.
What should I say, and what should I hear? O my Lord and Master, You are Great, All-powerful and All-knowing. ||1||Pause||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਮਾਨ ਅਭਿਮਾਨ ਮੰਧੇ ਸੋ ਸੇਵਕੁ ਨਾਹੀ ॥
मान अभिमान मंधे सो सेवकु नाही ॥
Mān abẖimān manḏẖe so sevak nāhī.
One who is influenced by praise and blame is not God's servant.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਤਤ ਸਮਦਰਸੀ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਕੋਈ ਕੋਟਿ ਮੰਧਾਹੀ ॥੨॥
तत समदरसी संतहु कोई कोटि मंधाही ॥२॥
Ŧaṯ samaḏrasī sanṯahu ko▫ī kot manḏẖāhī. ||2||
One who sees the essence of reality with impartial vision, O Saints, is very rare-one among millions. ||2||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਹਨ ਕਹਾਵਨ ਇਹੁ ਕੀਰਤਿ ਕਰਲਾ ॥
कहन कहावन इहु कीरति करला ॥
Kahan kahāvan ih kīraṯ karlā.
People talk on and on about Him; they consider this to be praise of God.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਥਨ ਕਹਨ ਤੇ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਗੁਰਮੁਖਿ ਕੋਈ ਵਿਰਲਾ ॥੩॥
कथन कहन ते मुकता गुरमुखि कोई विरला ॥३॥
Kathan kahan ṯe mukṯā gurmukẖ ko▫ī virlā. ||3||
But rare indeed is the Gurmukh, who is above this mere talk. ||3||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਗਤਿ ਅਵਿਗਤਿ ਕਛੁ ਨਦਰਿ ਨ ਆਇਆ ॥
गति अविगति कछु नदरि न आइआ ॥
Gaṯ avigaṯ kacẖẖ naḏar na ā▫i▫ā.
He is not concerned with deliverance or bondage.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਸੰਤਨ ਕੀ ਰੇਣੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਦਾਨੁ ਪਾਇਆ ॥੪॥੨੬॥੯੬॥
संतन की रेणु नानक दानु पाइआ ॥४॥२६॥९६॥
Sanṯan kī reṇ Nānak ḏān pā▫i▫ā. ||4||26||96||
Nanak has obtained the gift of the dust of the feet of the Saints. ||4||26||96||
</td></tr></tbody></table>

Thank you for copying this shabad above.

Gurbani is so beautiful, complex, multi-layered, and deep. Just reading it produces such bliss and gives complete peace. At the same time it imparts divine wisdom and spiritual enlightenment.

AoG

arshi · May 29, 2014

My earlier message (Post #8) ) was succinct, but something every Sikh should aspire to. Forgive for having a second bite of the cherry - a more detailed reply must include the three cornerstones of Sikhi (most know but few of us – including me – understand):
<?"urn:<img src=" />
(1) Naam japna: This does not mean just doing paath in parrot fashion; it is a ‘package’ instruction – it includes execution and incorporation of the message in our day to day living.

Repeated number of Paaths is a means to an end – <I>Bani kantth karo ta key saadey zehan vich</I> <I>bus jaa-ey</I> (learn Bani by heart so that it becomes second nature, accessible 24/7 to guide us in all situations).

(2) Kirat karni: Honest labour and living.

(3) Wand Shakna: Sharing the rewards of our labour including intellect, know-how etc.

(4) Tolerance: Tolerance (live and let live) and humility are linked – can’t have one without the other.
<I></I>
<I>Fareedaa burai da bhalaa kar gussaa mann na hadhaa-ai (1381 -19)</I>
<I>Farid do not harbour grudges; return bad intentions with goodness.</I>
<I></I>
<I>Na ko bairee nahee bigaanaa sagal sang ham kao ban aay-ee (1299–14)</I>
Treat all mankind as one family; be at enmity with no one - befriend all.

<I>bh</I><I>ai kaahoo ka-o dayt neh neh bhai maanat aan.(1427 -7) </I>
In short the message is: fear none, frighten none (live and let live policy)

<I></I><I>Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’</I>

chazSingh · May 29, 2014

I also think living in truth means knowing 100% what is permanent reality and what is temporary/illusory...what/who we really are...

Using an Analogy of a computer Game
We can live our life thinking we are the characters in a computer Game, not knowing of the true reality.

The truth would be that an existance exists beyond the computer game, that there is a computer programer that created the creation (the game)...and that a whole reality is there beyond the computer game.

Knowing the truth, our attention, our focus, our direction in the game would change, our interaction with other characters would change...and our desire to understand and seek first hand experience and knowledge of the true reality would increase (our thirst for Waheguru)

Hope this makes sense

Sherdil · May 30, 2014

To accept Hukam is to accept death. Realize that one day you will die, and all the trivial stuff in your life becomes meaningless. Money, material possessions, and personal relationships are all transitory. They will not go with you. Focus on what's important.

Accepting death allows us to not take this life for granted. We savor each moment, because it may not come again.

Hukam raazi chalna (walk willingly with the Hukam). In this way we ease our suffering.

To me, this is living truthfully.

chazSingh · May 30, 2014

Sherdil said:
To accept Hukam is to accept death. Realize that one day you will die, and all the trivial stuff in your life becomes meaningless. Money, material possessions, and personal relationships are all transitory. They will not go with you. Focus on what's important.

Accepting death allows us to not take this life for granted. We savor each moment, because it may not come again.

Hukam raazi chalna (walk willingly with the Hukam). In this way we ease our suffering.

To me, this is living truthfully.

personally i prefer to live in the knowledge that there is no death. death exists for the people that stay behind and see the dead body...

there is no death for me (soul)....i take with me my deeds and my deeds only...everything else is of no use, i leave that all behind...

my attachements, anger, desires, ego, greed go with me...and will affect my state of being...and where i (soul) go and of what becomes of me...

Therefore it is of utmost importance that i pray/meditate and live in TRUTH now so that i leave this body not having to come back and that i merge in truth whilst still alive...

There is no death, if you follow Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, this is something that will be shown to you.

In the words of Kabir Ji "Settle your accounts in this Farm (body)"
Pannaa 1104 - Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji:

<table cellspacing="5"><tbody><tr></tr><tr><td> ਕਾਹੇ ਕੀਜਤੁ ਹੈ ਮਨਿ ਭਾਵਨੁ ॥
काहे कीजतु है मनि भावनु ॥
Kāhe kījaṯ hai man bẖāvan.
Why do you act only to please your mind?
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਜਬ ਜਮੁ ਆਇ ਕੇਸ ਤੇ ਪਕਰੈ ਤਹ ਹਰਿ ਕੋ ਨਾਮੁ ਛਡਾਵਨ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जब जमु आइ केस ते पकरै तह हरि को नामु छडावन ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Jab jam ā▫e kes ṯe pakrai ṯah har ko nām cẖẖadāvan. ||1|| rahā▫o.
When Death comes and grabs you by the hair, then only the Name of the Lord will save you. ||1||Pause||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਾਲੁ ਅਕਾਲੁ ਖਸਮ ਕਾ ਕੀਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਾ ਇਹੁ ਪਰਪੰਚੁ ਬਧਾਵਨੁ ॥
कालु अकालु खसम का कीन्हा इहु परपंचु बधावनु ॥
Kāl akāl kẖasam kā kīnĥā ih parpancẖ baḏẖāvan.
Death, and deathlessness are the creations of our Lord and Master; this show, this expanse, is only an entanglement.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਹਿ ਕਬੀਰ ਤੇ ਅੰਤੇ ਮੁਕਤੇ ਜਿਨ੍ਹ੍ਹ ਹਿਰਦੈ ਰਾਮ ਰਸਾਇਨੁ ॥੨॥੬॥
कहि कबीर ते अंते मुकते जिन्ह हिरदै राम रसाइनु ॥२॥६॥
Kahi Kabīr ṯe anṯe mukṯe jinĥ hirḏai rām rasā▫in. ||2||6||
Says Kabeer, those who have the sublime essence of the Lord in their hearts - in the end, they are liberated. ||2||6||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਦੇਹੀ ਗਾਵਾ ਜੀਉ ਧਰ ਮਹਤਉ ਬਸਹਿ ਪੰਚ ਕਿਰਸਾਨਾ ॥
देही गावा जीउ धर महतउ बसहि पंच किरसाना ॥
Ḏehī gāvā jī▫o ḏẖar mahṯa▫o basėh pancẖ kirsānā.
The body is a village, and the soul is the owner and farmer; the five farm-hands live there.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਨੈਨੂ ਨਕਟੂ ਸ੍ਰਵਨੂ ਰਸਪਤਿ ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਕਹਿਆ ਨ ਮਾਨਾ ॥੧॥
नैनू नकटू स्रवनू रसपति इंद्री कहिआ न माना ॥१॥
Nainū naktū sarvanū raspaṯ inḏrī kahi▫ā na mānā. ||1||
The eyes, nose, ears, tongue and sensory organs of touch do not obey any order. ||1||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਬਾਬਾ ਅਬ ਨ ਬਸਉ ਇਹ ਗਾਉ ॥
बाबा अब न बसउ इह गाउ ॥
Bābā ab na basa▫o ih gā▫o.
O father, now I shall not live in this village.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਘਰੀ ਘਰੀ ਕਾ ਲੇਖਾ ਮਾਗੈ ਕਾਇਥੁ ਚੇਤੂ ਨਾਉ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
घरी घरी का लेखा मागै काइथु चेतू नाउ ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Gẖarī gẖarī kā lekẖā māgai kā▫ith cẖeṯū nā▫o. ||1|| rahā▫o.
The accountants summoned Chitar and Gupat, the recording scribes of the conscious and the unconscious, to ask for an account of each and every moment. ||1||Pause||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਧਰਮ ਰਾਇ ਜਬ ਲੇਖਾ ਮਾਗੈ ਬਾਕੀ ਨਿਕਸੀ ਭਾਰੀ ॥
धरम राइ जब लेखा मागै बाकी निकसी भारी ॥
Ḏẖaram rā▫e jab lekẖā māgai bākī niksī bẖārī.
When the Righteous Judge of Dharma calls for my account, there shall be a very heavy balance against me.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਪੰਚ ਕ੍ਰਿਸਾਨਵਾ ਭਾਗਿ ਗਏ ਲੈ ਬਾਧਿਓ ਜੀਉ ਦਰਬਾਰੀ ॥੨॥
पंच क्रिसानवा भागि गए लै बाधिओ जीउ दरबारी ॥२॥
Pancẖ kirsānvā bẖāg ga▫e lai bāḏẖi▫o jī▫o ḏarbārī. ||2||
The five farm-hands shall then run away, and the bailiff shall arrest the soul. ||2||
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਕਹੈ ਕਬੀਰੁ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਰੇ ਸੰਤਹੁ ਖੇਤ ਹੀ ਕਰਹੁ ਨਿਬੇਰਾ ॥
कहै कबीरु सुनहु रे संतहु खेत ही करहु निबेरा ॥
Kahai Kabīr sunhu re sanṯahu kẖeṯ hī karahu niberā.
Says Kabeer, listen, O Saints: settle your accounts in this farm.
</td></tr> <tr><td> ਅਬ ਕੀ ਬਾਰ ਬਖਸਿ ਬੰਦੇ ਕਉ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਭਉਜਲਿ ਫੇਰਾ ॥੩॥੭॥
अब की बार बखसि बंदे कउ बहुरि न भउजलि फेरा ॥३॥७॥
Ab kī bār bakẖas banḏe ka▫o bahur na bẖa▫ojal ferā. ||3||7||
O Lord, please forgive Your slave now, in this life, so that he may not have to return again to this terrifying world-ocean. ||3||7||
</td></tr></tbody></table>

Sherdil · May 30, 2014

chaszSingh said:
personally i prefer to live in the knowledge that there is no death. death exists for the people that stay behind and see the dead body...

Whether or not we believe in reincarnation, the fact that the Universe will come to an end holds true, does it not? Gurbani says that everything is subject to Kaal (death/time) except the divine, who is Akaal (without death/time).

chazSingh said:
there is no death for me (soul)....i take with me my deeds and my deeds only...everything else is of no use, i leave that all behind...

my attachements, anger, desires, ego, greed go with me...and will affect my state of being...and where i (soul) go and of what becomes of me...

Reincarnation

chazSingh said:
Therefore it is of utmost importance that i pray/meditate and live in TRUTH now so that i leave this body not having to come back and that i merge in truth whilst still alive.

Understanding Truth is one thing, but living it is something else. We can't escape Maya. We can only understand that it isn't real. This is why I am beginning to think there is no literal Mukti. If there is such a thing, then how do we know when we achieve it? All we can say is that this life has a lot of suffering in it, partially caused by our own desires and partially caused by external factors. All we can do is control our inner desires and accept the external circumstances that are out of our control. This is to accept Hukam. I believe this leads to contentment (Mukti).

Therefore living truthfully entails understanding the concept of Hukam and becoming at peace with it, in addition to everything we discussed regarding Naam and the oneness of everything.

I'm just trying to put the puzzle pieces together, as I feel all these things are interconnected. Guru ji said "Hukam raazi chalna", is the way we become sachiaara (truthful). So this is what I'm trying to understand.

chazSingh · May 30, 2014

Sherdil said:
Whether or not we believe in reincarnation, the fact that the Universe will come to an end holds true, does it not? Gurbani says that everything is subject to Kaal (death/time) except the divine, who is Akaal (without death/time).

Reincarnation

Understanding Truth is one thing, but living it is something else. We can't escape Maya. We can only understand that it isn't real. This is why I am beginning to think there is no literal Mukti. If there is such a thing, then how do we know when we achieve it? All we can say is that this life has a lot of suffering in it, partially caused by our own desires and partially caused by external factors. All we can do is control our inner desires and accept the external circumstances that are out of our control. This is to accept Hukam. I believe this leads to contentment (Mukti).

Therefore living truthfully entails understanding the concept of Hukam and becoming at peace with it, in addition to everything we discussed regarding Naam and the oneness of everything.

I'm just trying to put the puzzle pieces together, as I feel all these things are interconnected. Guru ji said "Hukam raazi chalna", is the way we become sachiaara (truthful). So this is what I'm trying to understand.

i am not talking about re-incarnation...i am talking about you existing in your true form once physical death occurs.

Gurbani makes many references over and over about you existing after physical death....therefore if you exists after physical death...there is no actual Death for you...you have just left behind your body.

you mention " This is why I am beginning to think there is no literal Mukti. If there is such a thing, then how do we know when we achieve it?"

seriously? thats like saying..."if i am to climb mount everest, how will i know if i have reached the top" .... urrm...if there is nothing left to climb lol

surely you can only get an answer to that question by walking that path...until then you're just tying knots in your brain thinking about it...which is not a bad thing as it gets you contemplating...but too much wondering can also create many doubts...so just be careful

you have to climb the mountain to know if there is a peak...you have to climb it to know when you have reached the top (destination)....you have to climb it to experience getting there....

sitting around at the base of the mountain with if and buts gets you nowhere...

Guru's hukam tells you clearly what you must do...if you do it will full faith, love and devotion, Sri Guru Granth will start to manifest inside of you bit by bit...you will be living what it describes...bit by bit...then your doubts will diminish...fearless..no more fear of death...you will never doubt a single thing described in Gurbani ever again

there are countless references to becoming one with God whilst yet alive in the world...there are countless references and descriptions to gurmukhs living amongst maya and being beyond it's grasp..

please do a simple search on sikhi to the max website and you will find many shabads that will help to remove your doubt...

chazSingh · May 30, 2014

Sherdil said:
Whether or not we believe in reincarnation, the fact that the Universe will come to an end holds true, does it not? Gurbani says that everything is subject to Kaal (death/time) except the divine, who is Akaal (without death/time).

Gurbani also says there is a part of you the TRUE YOU that is in escence the SAME as Waheguru Ji....

therefore if HE is beyind Kaal....and the TRUE YOU is like Him....what does that make you? beyond Kaal...

that is why Gurbani Says, Know yourself and you will know Waheguru Ji.

its makes so much sense...we just have to defeat our Ego which is making us doubt this...and which makes us think we are this minute little person that will live, then die...and nothing more...

When in reality, we are sooo much more...and so beyond that limitation..

Like a Mother who child has gone of the rails and started wasting away his/her live...the mother calls out, yearns, knows Her child is more than this...is a better person...is beyond what they have become...Waheguru Ji is trying to wake us up to our True reality.

Simples

gur_meet · May 31, 2014

chazSingh said:
Gurbani also says there is a part of you the TRUE YOU that is in escence the SAME as Waheguru Ji....

therefore if HE is beyind Kaal....and ...what does that make you? beyond Kaal...

that is why Gurbani Says, Know yourself and you will know Waheguru Ji.

Simples

Chaz Singh ji
You have stated aptly " the TRUE YOU is like Him ".

Knowing yourself seems to be an identification process. When ever I go through the flow of some shabads it is amazing to see the subtle hints in two aspects.

Gurbani explains about the state that vikars bring , the sufferings the manmukh faces , the impact of maya and then induces us to shift. The other part is naam. This shift is towards naam. The shift is to adopt and identify in a way of life which would enable us to become " Ek Ranga" meaning of same color.

Let us look at this shabad here there is only subtle identification guidance.

 ਆਸਾ[/FONT] ਮਹਲਾ[/FONT] ੫[/FONT] ॥[/FONT]Aasaa Mehalaa 5 ||
Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:

ਨਾ[/FONT] ਓਹੁ[/FONT] ਮਰਤਾ[/FONT] ਨਾ[/FONT] ਹਮ[/FONT] ਡਰਿਆ[/FONT] ॥ [/FONT]Naa Ouhu Marathaa Naa Ham Ddariaa ||
He does not die, so I do not fear.
ਨਾ[/FONT] ਓਹੁ[/FONT] ਬਿਨਸੈ[/FONT] ਨਾ[/FONT] ਹਮ[/FONT] ਕੜਿਆ[/FONT] ॥ [/FONT]Naa Ouhu Binasai Naa Ham Karriaa ||
He does not perish, so I do not grieve.
ਨਾ[/FONT] ਓਹੁ[/FONT] ਨਿਰਧਨੁ[/FONT] ਨਾ[/FONT] ਹਮ[/FONT] ਭੂਖੇ[/FONT] ॥ [/FONT]Naa Ouhu Niradhhan Naa Ham Bhookhae ||
He is not poor, so I do not hunger.
ਨਾ[/FONT] ਓਸੁ[/FONT] ਦੂਖੁ[/FONT] ਨ[/FONT] ਹਮ[/FONT] ਕਉ[/FONT] ਦੂਖੇ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT]੧[/FONT]॥ [/FONT]Naa Ous Dhookh N Ham Ko Dhookhae ||1||
He is not in pain, so I do not suffer. ||1||
ਅਵਰੁ[/FONT] ਨ[/FONT] ਕੋਊ[/FONT] ਮਾਰਨਵਾਰਾ[/FONT] ॥ [/FONT]Avar N Kooo Maaranavaaraa ||
There is no other Destroyer than Him.
ਜੀਅਉ[/FONT] ਹਮਾਰਾ[/FONT] ਜੀਉ[/FONT] ਦੇਨਹਾਰਾ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT]੧[/FONT]॥[/FONT] ਰਹਾਉ[/FONT] ॥ [/FONT]Jeeao Hamaaraa Jeeo Dhaenehaaraa ||1|| Rehaao ||
He is my very life, the Giver of life. ||1||Pause||
ਨਾ[/FONT] ਉਸੁ[/FONT] ਬੰਧਨ[/FONT] ਨਾ[/FONT] ਹਮ[/FONT] ਬਾਧੇ[/FONT] ॥ [/FONT]Naa Ous Bandhhan Naa Ham Baadhhae ||
He is not bound, so I am not in bondage.
ਨਾ[/FONT] ਉਸੁ[/FONT] ਧੰਧਾ[/FONT] ਨਾ[/FONT] ਹਮ[/FONT] ਧਾਧੇ[/FONT] ॥ [/FONT]Naa Ous Dhhandhhaa Naa Ham Dhhaadhhae ||
He has no occupation, so I have no entanglements.
ਨਾ[/FONT] ਉਸੁ[/FONT] ਮੈਲੁ[/FONT] ਨ[/FONT] ਹਮ[/FONT] ਕਉ[/FONT] ਮੈਲਾ[/FONT] ॥ [/FONT]Naa Ous Mail N Ham Ko Mailaa ||
He has no impurities, so I have no impurities.
ਓਸੁ[/FONT] ਅਨੰਦੁ[/FONT] ਤ[/FONT] ਹਮ[/FONT] ਸਦ[/FONT] ਕੇਲਾ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT]੨[/FONT]॥ [/FONT]Ous Anandh Th Ham Sadh Kaelaa ||2||
He is in ecstasy, so I am always happy. ||2||
ਨਾ[/FONT] ਉਸੁ[/FONT] ਸੋਚੁ[/FONT] ਨ[/FONT] ਹਮ[/FONT] ਕਉ[/FONT] ਸੋਚਾ[/FONT] ॥ [/FONT]Naa Ous Soch N Ham Ko Sochaa ||
He has no anxiety, so I have no cares.
ਨਾ[/FONT] ਉਸੁ[/FONT] ਲੇਪੁ[/FONT] ਨ[/FONT] ਹਮ[/FONT] ਕਉ[/FONT] ਪੋਚਾ[/FONT] ॥ [/FONT]Naa Ous Laep N Ham Ko Pochaa ||
He has no stain, so I have no pollution.
ਨਾ[/FONT] ਉਸੁ[/FONT] ਭੂਖ[/FONT] ਨ[/FONT] ਹਮ[/FONT] ਕਉ[/FONT] ਤ੍ਰਿਸਨਾ[/FONT] ॥ [/FONT]Naa Ous Bhookh N Ham Ko Thrisanaa ||
He has no hunger, so I have no thirst.
ਜਾ[/FONT] ਉਹੁ[/FONT] ਨਿਰਮਲੁ[/FONT] ਤਾਂ[/FONT] ਹਮ[/FONT] ਜਚਨਾ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT]੩[/FONT]॥ [/FONT]Jaa Ouhu Niramal Thaan Ham Jachanaa ||3||
Since He is immaculately pure, I correspond to Him. ||3||
ਹਮ[/FONT]ਕਿਛੁ[/FONT]ਨਾਹੀ[/FONT]ਏਕੈ[/FONT]ਓਹੀ[/FONT]॥ [/FONT]Ham Kishh Naahee Eaekai Ouhee ||
I am nothing; He is the One and only.
ਆਗੈ[/FONT]ਪਾਛੈ[/FONT]ਏਕੋ[/FONT]ਸੋਈ[/FONT]॥ [/FONT]Aagai Paashhai Eaeko Soee ||
Before and after, He alone exists
ਨਾਨਕ[/FONT]ਗੁਰਿ[/FONT]ਖੋਏ[/FONT]ਭ੍ਰਮ[/FONT]ਭੰਗਾ[/FONT]॥ [/FONT]Naanak Gur Khoeae Bhram Bhangaa || [/FONT]
O Nanak, the Guru has taken away my doubts and mistakes;[/FONT]
ਹਮ[/FONT]ਓਇ[/FONT]ਮਿਲਿ[/FONT]ਹੋਏ[/FONT]ਇਕ[/FONT]ਰੰਗਾ[/FONT] ॥[/FONT]੪[/FONT]॥[/FONT]੩੨[/FONT]॥[/FONT]੮੩[/FONT]॥ [/FONT]Ham Oue Mil Hoeae Eik Rangaa ||4||32||83||[/FONT]
He and I, joining together, are of the same color. ||4||32||83||[/FONT]
ਆਸਾ[/FONT] (ਮ[/FONT]: ੫[/FONT]) ਗੁਰੂ[/FONT]ਗ੍ਰੰਥ[/FONT]ਸਾਹਿਬ[/FONT] : ਅੰਗ[/FONT]੩੯੧ Sree Guru Granth Sahib ji 391[/FONT]

 This Shabad probably states what the living attitude leading towards sach (the truth behind self) is.
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