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Gurmat Vichaar
Gurmat Vichar - Discussions
Translations Of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: The Difficult And The Contradictory
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<blockquote data-quote="Amarpal" data-source="post: 98599" data-attributes="member: 10"><p><strong>Re: Translations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj: The Difficult and the Contradictor</strong></p><p></p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">Dear Tejwant Singh Ji and aad0002 Ji</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Tahoma'">The following hymn I have taken from Virinder Singh Ji's post under the refered heading. </span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਕਬੀਰਭਾਂਗਮਾਛੁਲੀ</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸੁਰਾ</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪਾਨਿ</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੋ</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜੋ</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਖਾਂਹਿ</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤੀਰਥ</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਬਰਤ</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਨੇਮਕੀਏ</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਤੇ</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਸਭੈ</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਰਸਾਤਲਿ</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Raavi'">ਜਾਂਹਿ</span></span> <span style="color: black"><span style="font-family: 'Mangal'">॥</span></span></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><em><span style="color: black">Kabir Bhaang Maachulee Sura Paan Jo Jo Praanee Khaaneh, Teerath Barat Naym Keeay </span></em><em><span style="color: black">Tay</span></em><em><span style="color: black"> Sabhay Rasaatal Jaaneh.</span></em></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">I do not translate the hymns from Siri Guru Granth Sahib but explain the meaning as I understand. I am doing the same here also.</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Before I come to explain the meaning, I need to convey the premise of my thinking base on which I elaborate on the hymn. </span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">(i) Sikhi emphasis the purity in the functioning of the brain so that its soft output 'The Mind' is pure.</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">(ii) There is no human who can be said to be vegetarian in the strict sense of the word. The first nourishment that I got after my birth was not of vegetable origin, it was my mother's milk. Curd that most of the so called vegetarians eat is of animal origin in which live bacteria’s keep multiplying. Butter and Ghee to are of animal origin. This blurs the distinction between Vegetarians and non-vegetarians.</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">(iii) Nature has not created us in a manner which allows us to synthesize the nutrients the way plant are able to do. We are dependent on plant and animal kingdom for our food.</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">(iv) Whenever we eat we terminate some life, either of plant or animal. The egg and seeds (grains and pulses) that we consume are all suspended lives. Given the proper environment life comes to them. We cannot help not doing it. Keeping the body in proper form is our sacred duty.</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">(v) The history of Sikh Gurus that I know tells me that Siri Guru Nanak has eaten meat on the day when the other Sadhus of dominant religion of the land were fasting.</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">(vi) To me hell and heaven are not to designated places where people go after death. These words denote two extreme states of our living. When there are conflicts in mind, one is not able to provide for himself and his family, it is afflicted by maladies and the children go astray etc, etc. it is hell; absence of all these are heaven. In other wards painful living is hell and living in pleasures in heaven.</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Now I come to explain the truth in the Hymn of Bhagat Kabir.</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Kabir Ji has said the people who consume intoxicants will go to hell. Hell means that such individual will life a painful life. He is right in saying so.</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">I will first talk about the intoxicants and then meat.</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="color: black"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">All the intoxicants, which Bhagat Kabir has mentioned in the hymn and others which are not mentioned specifically, impact on the proper and pure functioning of the brain. Such functioning of the brain creates a corrupted mind. The action which such mind will take will initiate a series of karmic cycles. The consequences of such Karmas when they mature and impact on this person’s life will bring miseries to it. This way the person is condemned to hell, which Bhagat Kabir Ji has said.</span></span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Now I come to the meat mentioned in this Hymn of Bhagat Kabir Ji.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">First I establish the linkage between the meat that we eat and the impact it has on us.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">We all know that the companies in the business of meat feed hormones to animals to increase the meat production. When we consume such meat those hormones enter into our body and effect our body formation too. This in a very broad sense tells that we become what we eat. This is the linkage.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">When we eat meat, even the natural hormones that are present into it find their way to enter our body. We all know the hormones affect our behavior. The animal hormones that get into us through the Non-vegetarian food chain bring animality in our nature. The person who consumes meat day in and day out will move more and more in the direction in which the ingested hormones take him; the potential is that the person will loose more on Satvikta and gain in Rajsikta (aggressiveness, activity, restlessness etc). This animality in the person may make the person commit acts which the person may have to regret later as they bring misery to the person’s life and thus create hell for him. This is what Kabir Sahib said in the hymn above.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">Here is a rider. The person who consumes meat once in a while does not accumulate the hormones to the extent needed to change the behavior of the person, and pus it deep into Rajsikta. This was the case of Guru Nanak Dev Ji who ate meat offered by one of his disciple.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">This means eating meat its self is not bad, but those who are trying for spiritual evolution, as was the case with Bhagat Kabir Ji, consuming it and then loosing the goal he has set for himself was like going to hell.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'">It is for the reader to select from among the different translations, which were referred in the post of Virinder Singh Ji. I have no observation to make on the translations. I have shared what I understand from it. It is not a translation.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">With this I close the post.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">With love and respect for all.</span></span></p><p> </p><p><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Amarpal Singh</span></span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Amarpal, post: 98599, member: 10"] [b]Re: Translations of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj: The Difficult and the Contradictor[/b] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]Dear Tejwant Singh Ji and aad0002 Ji[/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma]The following hymn I have taken from Virinder Singh Ji's post under the refered heading. [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਕਬੀਰਭਾਂਗਮਾਛੁਲੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਸੁਰਾ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਪਾਨਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਜੋ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਜੋ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਖਾਂਹਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਤੀਰਥ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਬਰਤ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਨੇਮਕੀਏ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਤੇ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਸਭੈ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਰਸਾਤਲਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Raavi]ਜਾਂਹਿ[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Mangal]॥[/FONT][/COLOR][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman][I][COLOR=black]Kabir Bhaang Maachulee Sura Paan Jo Jo Praanee Khaaneh, Teerath Barat Naym Keeay [/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black]Tay[/COLOR][/I][I][COLOR=black] Sabhay Rasaatal Jaaneh.[/COLOR][/I][COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma][/FONT][/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE] [COLOR=black][FONT=Tahoma] [/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]I do not translate the hymns from Siri Guru Granth Sahib but explain the meaning as I understand. I am doing the same here also.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Before I come to explain the meaning, I need to convey the premise of my thinking base on which I elaborate on the hymn. [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman](i) Sikhi emphasis the purity in the functioning of the brain so that its soft output 'The Mind' is pure.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman] [/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman](ii) There is no human who can be said to be vegetarian in the strict sense of the word. The first nourishment that I got after my birth was not of vegetable origin, it was my mother's milk. Curd that most of the so called vegetarians eat is of animal origin in which live bacteria’s keep multiplying. Butter and Ghee to are of animal origin. This blurs the distinction between Vegetarians and non-vegetarians.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman](iii) Nature has not created us in a manner which allows us to synthesize the nutrients the way plant are able to do. We are dependent on plant and animal kingdom for our food.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman](iv) Whenever we eat we terminate some life, either of plant or animal. The egg and seeds (grains and pulses) that we consume are all suspended lives. Given the proper environment life comes to them. We cannot help not doing it. Keeping the body in proper form is our sacred duty.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman](v) The history of Sikh Gurus that I know tells me that Siri Guru Nanak has eaten meat on the day when the other Sadhus of dominant religion of the land were fasting.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman](vi) To me hell and heaven are not to designated places where people go after death. These words denote two extreme states of our living. When there are conflicts in mind, one is not able to provide for himself and his family, it is afflicted by maladies and the children go astray etc, etc. it is hell; absence of all these are heaven. In other wards painful living is hell and living in pleasures in heaven.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Now I come to explain the truth in the Hymn of Bhagat Kabir.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Kabir Ji has said the people who consume intoxicants will go to hell. Hell means that such individual will life a painful life. He is right in saying so.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]I will first talk about the intoxicants and then meat.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]All the intoxicants, which Bhagat Kabir has mentioned in the hymn and others which are not mentioned specifically, impact on the proper and pure functioning of the brain. Such functioning of the brain creates a corrupted mind. The action which such mind will take will initiate a series of karmic cycles. The consequences of such Karmas when they mature and impact on this person’s life will bring miseries to it. This way the person is condemned to hell, which Bhagat Kabir Ji has said.[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR] [COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT][/COLOR] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Now I come to the meat mentioned in this Hymn of Bhagat Kabir Ji.[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]First I establish the linkage between the meat that we eat and the impact it has on us.[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]We all know that the companies in the business of meat feed hormones to animals to increase the meat production. When we consume such meat those hormones enter into our body and effect our body formation too. This in a very broad sense tells that we become what we eat. This is the linkage.[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]When we eat meat, even the natural hormones that are present into it find their way to enter our body. We all know the hormones affect our behavior. The animal hormones that get into us through the Non-vegetarian food chain bring animality in our nature. The person who consumes meat day in and day out will move more and more in the direction in which the ingested hormones take him; the potential is that the person will loose more on Satvikta and gain in Rajsikta (aggressiveness, activity, restlessness etc). This animality in the person may make the person commit acts which the person may have to regret later as they bring misery to the person’s life and thus create hell for him. This is what Kabir Sahib said in the hymn above.[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Here is a rider. The person who consumes meat once in a while does not accumulate the hormones to the extent needed to change the behavior of the person, and pus it deep into Rajsikta. This was the case of Guru Nanak Dev Ji who ate meat offered by one of his disciple.[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]This means eating meat its self is not bad, but those who are trying for spiritual evolution, as was the case with Bhagat Kabir Ji, consuming it and then loosing the goal he has set for himself was like going to hell.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT] [SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]It is for the reader to select from among the different translations, which were referred in the post of Virinder Singh Ji. I have no observation to make on the translations. I have shared what I understand from it. It is not a translation.[/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]With this I close the post.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]With love and respect for all.[/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3] [/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]Amarpal Singh[/SIZE][/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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Translations Of Sri Guru Granth Sahib: The Difficult And The Contradictory
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