Accidentally Consumed

[Kamala]

Sat Sri Akal;
It's been so long since I have come back to the site, I have a literal question to discuss that has been bothering me for the past few days:

So my sister buys SUSHI and says it is 100% vegan and I eat it and it tastes funny and I notice on the box it says it may contain fish but she mustve not have read it, then she told me to keep eating it, and I haven't eaten for so long and just ate one more while not being in my senses and I am scared I might go to Narkh for this... do you think I will go to Narkh for this??


ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥
कबीर भांग माछुली सुरा पानि जो जो प्रानी खांहि ॥
Kabīr bẖāʼng mācẖẖulī surā pān jo jo parānī kẖāʼnhi.
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine -

ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥
तीरथ बरत नेम कीए ते सभै रसातलि जांहि ॥२३३॥
Ŧirath baraṯ nem kī▫e ṯe sabẖai rasāṯal jāʼnhi. ||233||
no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

edit; from just reading the last line it says they will be reincarnated to Rastala

Rasātala is the home of the demons - Danavas and Daityas, who are mighty but cruel. They are the eternal foes of Devas (the gods). They live in holes like serpents.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Hey Kamala, good to see you again!

You'll be fine as long as you practice Kabir's core teachings.

Remember Ram at all times
Detach from the 5 Senses
Be aware of your death
Be conscious of your consciousness
.
.

According to Kabir those foods interfere with the above, and that's why you should not consume them.

Also check out my threads on Kabir's teachings:
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/guru-granth-darpan/39302-true-honour-boskd-5-a.html

 

[Kamala]

Nice to see you too hopefully I will be fine then! But I feel as if that is too simple of a "penance"..

 

[BhagatSingh]

Simple but VERY hard.

Like walking a tight rope. The instruction is simple: just walk on the rope without falling. But actually doing it takes years and years of "penance".

 

[Kamala]

Would it just be good if I resume life how I used to; like doing all my prayers at the specific times?

 

[BhagatSingh]

What kind of Paschatap requires that you simply do your old routine? You do want to break the pattern of reincarnation right? That means you have to break your old habits. Your prayers are fine but they are being said in the swamp of old habits. The habits I am referring to take place deep in the psyche. E.g. attachment to 5 senses isn't something you do during the day, it is something deeply embedded in your form. The challenge is to break that deeply embedded habit.

If you have been praying daily then you have taken the first step. Are you ready to move on to the next?

 

[Kamala]

What's the next step?

 

[BhagatSingh]

It is outlined in Kabir's Saloks. See my first reply. It helps to know which level you are currently at and then work towards the outlined "goals".

To determine your current level you need to observe your behaviour closely.
What is your experience of doing prayers? What do you do and what happens when you pray?

And are there any other rituals? What is the experience during those?

EDIT: I just remember compiling the step-by-step approach here: http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/quest...ed-step-step-manual-following.html#post175222
It's crude and needs refining so let me know if there is anything specific that needs clarification.

 

[Brother Onam]

My sister,
defiling the body is less a question of what goes in the mouth but rather what dwells in the heart. Your revulsion at consuming a little fish betrays: 1, you don't usually eat flesh, and 2, you dread the spiritual consequence of this deed. These are the right responses of a righteous soul.
You're going to be alright, my sister. Kabir Ji's admonition is directed towards those who keep the lust for meat and lawlessness in their hearts, and who flout higher guidance.
Yeshua (usually called 'Jesus') called out the hypocrites of his time, saying: "...you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones".
The lesson then, is to stay pure internally, by spiritual discipline and love of Satguru. All the way strong.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

In an unrelated conversation, me and my aunt saw a photo on FB and we were wondering which place the pic was taken. Earlier there were just 2 candidates, it could have been taken at either A's house or at B, based on the people in the pic. But soon more options were considered, each looking equally likely yet nothing was 100% sure. After discussing for some time, we reached no conclusion. And the good old pic was totally forgotten. I saw it somehow related to humanity, religion and God. We see the world. And we try and understand with our religion. But we think of all religions as separate. And sometimes we try to prove one better, or try to justify our own beliefs. Other times we argue what came first or what makes more sense. In the long run, we forget the big picture (or the only picture), we forget the Universe we thrive in, we forget the Creator, our Lord.

ਏਹੁ ਅਹੇਰਾ ਕੀਨੋ ਦਾਨੁ ॥
God has given this gift.
ਨਾਨਕ ਕੈ ਘਰਿ ਕੇਵਲ ਨਾਮੁ ॥੪॥੪॥
Nanak's home is filled with the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

 

[Randip Singh]

Sat Sri Akal;
It's been so long since I have come back to the site, I have a literal question to discuss that has been bothering me for the past few days:

So my sister buys SUSHI and says it is 100% vegan and I eat it and it tastes funny and I notice on the box it says it may contain fish but she mustve not have read it, then she told me to keep eating it, and I haven't eaten for so long and just ate one more while not being in my senses and I am scared I might go to Narkh for this... do you think I will go to Narkh for this??


ਕਬੀਰ ਭਾਂਗ ਮਾਛੁਲੀ ਸੁਰਾ ਪਾਨਿ ਜੋ ਜੋ ਪ੍ਰਾਨੀ ਖਾਂਹਿ ॥
कबीर भांग माछुली सुरा पानि जो जो प्रानी खांहि ॥
Kabīr bẖāʼng mācẖẖulī surā pān jo jo parānī kẖāʼnhi.
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine -

ਤੀਰਥ ਬਰਤ ਨੇਮ ਕੀਏ ਤੇ ਸਭੈ ਰਸਾਤਲਿ ਜਾਂਹਿ ॥੨੩੩॥
तीरथ बरत नेम कीए ते सभै रसातलि जांहि ॥२३३॥
Ŧirath baraṯ nem kī▫e ṯe sabẖai rasāṯal jāʼnhi. ||233||
no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. ||233||

edit; from just reading the last line it says they will be reincarnated to Rastala

Well it depends whether you are a Vaishnav or a Sikh. Sikhs don't believe in heaven and hell, as we believe hell is dwelling in the 5 thieves. Our goal is union with God, which dwells in all humans. Kabir Panthi's are Vaishnav's and believe in the Narag Swarag concept.

Secondly, taking two lines out of a shabad distorts it's meaning. Here is the full shabad with explanation:

1. Those mortals who consume marijuana, flesh and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. (Sri Guru Granth Sahib p1337)

In this instance let us firstly add the Gurmukhi with the English:

mukat padaarath paa-ee-ai thaak na avghat ghaat.
231
kabeer ayk gharhee aaDhee gharee aaDhee hooN tay aaDh.
bhagtan saytee gostay jo keenay so laabh. 232
kabeer bhaaNg maachhulee suraa paan jo jo paraanee khaaNhi.
tirath barat naym kee-ay tay sabhai rasaatal jaaNhi. 233
neechay lo-in kar raha-o lay saajan ghat maahi.
sabh ras khayla-o pee-a sa-o kisee lakhaava-o naahi. 234
aath jaam cha-usath gharee tu-a nirkhat rahai jee-o.
neechay lo-in ki-o kara-o sabh ghat daykh-a-u pee-o. 235
sun sakhee pee-a meh jee-o basai jee-a meh basai ke pee-o.
jee-o pee-o boojha-o nahee ghat meh jee-o ke pee-o. 236
kabeer baaman guroo hai jagat kaa bhagtan kaa gur naahi.
arajh urajh kai pach moo-aa chaara-o baydahu maahi.237
har hai khaaNd rayt meh bikhree haathee chunee na jaa-ay.
kahi kabeer gur bhalee bujhaa-ee keetee ho-ay kai khaa-ay. 238
kabeer ja-o tuhi saaDh piramm kee sees kaat kar go-ay.
khaylat khaylat haal kar jo kichh ho-ay ta ho-ay. 239
kabeer ja-o tuhi saaDh piramm kee paakay saytee khayl.
kaachee sarsa-uN payl kai naa khal bha-ee na tayl.240
dhooNdhat doleh anDh gat ar cheenat naahee sant.
kahi naamaa ki-o paa-ee-ai bin bhagtahu bhagvant. 241
har so heeraa chhaad kai karahi aan kee aas.
tay nar dojak jaahigay sat bhaakhai ravidaas. 242
kabeer ja-o garihu karahi ta Dharam kar naahee ta kar bairaag.
bairaagee banDhan karai taa ko bado abhaag. 243

He obtains the treasure of liberation, and the difficult road to the Lord is not blocked.
231
Kabeer, whether is is for an hour, half an hour, or half of that,
whatever it is, it is worthwhile to speak with the Holy. 232
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine -
no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. 233
Kabeer, I keep my eyes lowered, and enshrine my Friend within my heart.
I enjoy all pleasures with my Beloved, but I do not let anyone else know.234
Twenty-four hours a day, every hour, my soul continues to look to You, O Lord.
Why should I keep my eyes lowered? I see my Beloved in every heart. 235
Listen, O my companions: my soul dwells in my Beloved, and my Beloved dwells in my soul.
I realize that there is no difference between my soul and my Beloved; I cannot tell whether my soul or my Beloved dwells in my heart. 236
Kabeer, the Brahmin may be the guru of the world, but he is not the Guru of the devotees.
He rots and dies in the perplexities of the four Vedas. 237
The Lord is like sugar, scattered in the sand; the elephant cannot pick it up.
Says Kabeer, the Guru has given me this sublime understanding: become an ant, and feed on it. 238
Kabeer, if you desire to play the game of love with the Lord, then cut off your head, and make it into a ball.
Lose yourself in the play of it, and then whatever will be, will be. 239
Kabeer, if you desire to play the game of love with the Lord, play it with someone with committment.
Pressing the unripe mustard seeds produces neither oil nor flour. 240
Searching, the mortal stumbles like a blind person, and does not recognize the Saint.
Says Naam Dayv, how can one obtain the Lord God, without His devotee?

Taking out the sentence we see ​

kabeer bhaaNg maachhulee suraa paan jo jo paraanee khaaNhi.
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine –

tirath barat naym kee-ay tay sabhai rasaatal jaaNhi. 233
no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. 233
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji


Firstly note that maachlee is not flesh, but is indeed fish. The word in Punjabi for flesh is maas. Then secondly one must ask, why is there a forbidding in the consumption of fish specifically. The answer lies in reading the entire paragraph and a picture emerges. In the last two lines the statement is made:

kabeer ja-o garihu karahi ta Dharam kar naahee ta kar bairaag.
Kabeer, if you live the householder's life, then practice righteousness; otherwise, you might as well retire from the world.

bairaagee banDhan karai taa ko bado abhaag. 243
If someone renounces the world, and then gets involved in worldly entanglements, he shall suffer terrible misfortune. 243
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji


Now putting this in its entire context what Bhagat Kabir is actually criticising in the rich and those in power. The thrill seekers, who are addicted to their senses and those addicted to the 5 thieves. Kabir was born around the area of Benares, and was brought up in a poor Muslim weavers family. He saw the excesses of the rich around him, while the poor starved. Foods like fish and wine were associated with the rich who had an excessive disposable income. Marijuana was associated with either idol people or those who had time and money to waste. Kabir abhorred this, and this statement is a social comment about the excesses of the rich. At the end he clearly states, that those people who do their duties as householders (i.e. work hard, care for other etc) are the ones who will be liberated, and those who live by excesses will suffer. One cantherefore clearly see that this is in no way a comment about eating meat (because of mistranslation) or about avoiding certain foods (as has been misrepresented).


Here is an example of how I could twist the meaning of a shabad:

Page 1379, Line 7
ਜਿਨਾ ਖਾਧੀ ਚੋਪੜੀ ਘਣੇ ਸਹਨਿਗੇ ਦੁਖ ॥੨੮॥
जिना खाधी चोपड़ी घणे सहनिगे दुख ॥२८॥
Jinā kẖāḏẖī cẖopṛī gẖaṇe sėhnige ḏukẖ. ||28||
Those who eat buttered bread, will suffer in terrible pain. ||28||

Do you think I will suffer terrible pain for eating bread and butter? winkingmunda

 

[Randip Singh]

My sister,
defiling the body is less a question of what goes in the mouth but rather what dwells in the heart. Your revulsion at consuming a little fish betrays: 1, you don't usually eat flesh, and 2, you dread the spiritual consequence of this deed. These are the right responses of a righteous soul.
You're going to be alright, my sister. Kabir Ji's admonition is directed towards those who keep the lust for meat and lawlessness in their hearts, and who flout higher guidance.
Yeshua (usually called 'Jesus') called out the hypocrites of his time, saying: "...you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men's bones".
The lesson then, is to stay pure internally, by spiritual discipline and love of Satguru. All the way strong.

A simply brilliant explanation.

 

[Kamala]

Well it depends whether you are a Vaishnav or a Sikh. Sikhs don't believe in heaven and hell, as we believe hell is dwelling in the 5 thieves. Our goal is union with God, which dwells in all humans. Kabir Panthi's are Vaishnav's and believe in the Narag Swarag concept.

Secondly, taking two lines out of a shabad distorts it's meaning. Here is the full shabad with explanation:

1. Those mortals who consume marijuana, flesh and wine - no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. (Sri Guru Granth Sahib p1337)

In this instance let us firstly add the Gurmukhi with the English:

mukat padaarath paa-ee-ai thaak na avghat ghaat.
231
kabeer ayk gharhee aaDhee gharee aaDhee hooN tay aaDh.
bhagtan saytee gostay jo keenay so laabh. 232
kabeer bhaaNg maachhulee suraa paan jo jo paraanee khaaNhi.
tirath barat naym kee-ay tay sabhai rasaatal jaaNhi. 233
neechay lo-in kar raha-o lay saajan ghat maahi.
sabh ras khayla-o pee-a sa-o kisee lakhaava-o naahi. 234
aath jaam cha-usath gharee tu-a nirkhat rahai jee-o.
neechay lo-in ki-o kara-o sabh ghat daykh-a-u pee-o. 235
sun sakhee pee-a meh jee-o basai jee-a meh basai ke pee-o.
jee-o pee-o boojha-o nahee ghat meh jee-o ke pee-o. 236
kabeer baaman guroo hai jagat kaa bhagtan kaa gur naahi.
arajh urajh kai pach moo-aa chaara-o baydahu maahi.237
har hai khaaNd rayt meh bikhree haathee chunee na jaa-ay.
kahi kabeer gur bhalee bujhaa-ee keetee ho-ay kai khaa-ay. 238
kabeer ja-o tuhi saaDh piramm kee sees kaat kar go-ay.
khaylat khaylat haal kar jo kichh ho-ay ta ho-ay. 239
kabeer ja-o tuhi saaDh piramm kee paakay saytee khayl.
kaachee sarsa-uN payl kai naa khal bha-ee na tayl.240
dhooNdhat doleh anDh gat ar cheenat naahee sant.
kahi naamaa ki-o paa-ee-ai bin bhagtahu bhagvant. 241
har so heeraa chhaad kai karahi aan kee aas.
tay nar dojak jaahigay sat bhaakhai ravidaas. 242
kabeer ja-o garihu karahi ta Dharam kar naahee ta kar bairaag.
bairaagee banDhan karai taa ko bado abhaag. 243

He obtains the treasure of liberation, and the difficult road to the Lord is not blocked.
231
Kabeer, whether is is for an hour, half an hour, or half of that,
whatever it is, it is worthwhile to speak with the Holy. 232
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine -
no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. 233
Kabeer, I keep my eyes lowered, and enshrine my Friend within my heart.
I enjoy all pleasures with my Beloved, but I do not let anyone else know.234
Twenty-four hours a day, every hour, my soul continues to look to You, O Lord.
Why should I keep my eyes lowered? I see my Beloved in every heart. 235
Listen, O my companions: my soul dwells in my Beloved, and my Beloved dwells in my soul.
I realize that there is no difference between my soul and my Beloved; I cannot tell whether my soul or my Beloved dwells in my heart. 236
Kabeer, the Brahmin may be the guru of the world, but he is not the Guru of the devotees.
He rots and dies in the perplexities of the four Vedas. 237
The Lord is like sugar, scattered in the sand; the elephant cannot pick it up.
Says Kabeer, the Guru has given me this sublime understanding: become an ant, and feed on it. 238
Kabeer, if you desire to play the game of love with the Lord, then cut off your head, and make it into a ball.
Lose yourself in the play of it, and then whatever will be, will be. 239
Kabeer, if you desire to play the game of love with the Lord, play it with someone with committment.
Pressing the unripe mustard seeds produces neither oil nor flour. 240
Searching, the mortal stumbles like a blind person, and does not recognize the Saint.
Says Naam Dayv, how can one obtain the Lord God, without His devotee?

Taking out the sentence we see ​

kabeer bhaaNg maachhulee suraa paan jo jo paraanee khaaNhi.
Kabeer, those mortals who consume marijuana, fish and wine –

tirath barat naym kee-ay tay sabhai rasaatal jaaNhi. 233
no matter what pilgrimages, fasts and rituals they follow, they will all go to hell. 233
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji


Firstly note that maachlee is not flesh, but is indeed fish. The word in Punjabi for flesh is maas. Then secondly one must ask, why is there a forbidding in the consumption of fish specifically. The answer lies in reading the entire paragraph and a picture emerges. In the last two lines the statement is made:

kabeer ja-o garihu karahi ta Dharam kar naahee ta kar bairaag.
Kabeer, if you live the householder's life, then practice righteousness; otherwise, you might as well retire from the world.

bairaagee banDhan karai taa ko bado abhaag. 243
If someone renounces the world, and then gets involved in worldly entanglements, he shall suffer terrible misfortune. 243
Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji


Now putting this in its entire context what Bhagat Kabir is actually criticising in the rich and those in power. The thrill seekers, who are addicted to their senses and those addicted to the 5 thieves. Kabir was born around the area of Benares, and was brought up in a poor Muslim weavers family. He saw the excesses of the rich around him, while the poor starved. Foods like fish and wine were associated with the rich who had an excessive disposable income. Marijuana was associated with either idol people or those who had time and money to waste. Kabir abhorred this, and this statement is a social comment about the excesses of the rich. At the end he clearly states, that those people who do their duties as householders (i.e. work hard, care for other etc) are the ones who will be liberated, and those who live by excesses will suffer. One cantherefore clearly see that this is in no way a comment about eating meat (because of mistranslation) or about avoiding certain foods (as has been misrepresented).


Here is an example of how I could twist the meaning of a shabad:

Page 1379, Line 7
ਜਿਨਾ ਖਾਧੀ ਚੋਪੜੀ ਘਣੇ ਸਹਨਿਗੇ ਦੁਖ ॥੨੮॥
जिना खाधी चोपड़ी घणे सहनिगे दुख ॥२८॥
Jinā kẖāḏẖī cẖopṛī gẖaṇe sėhnige ḏukẖ. ||28||
Those who eat buttered bread, will suffer in terrible pain. ||28||

Do you think I will suffer terrible pain for eating bread and butter? winkingmunda

Thank you!! So just to confirm, you are trying to say that it is just a saying, as people that are like that have like, um, bad intentions / live not a true way?

 

[Siri Kamala]

There is no prohibition against eating meat for Sikhs, except for meat that is ritually slaughtered (kosher/halal meat). I'm not sure why this keeps coming up when the ruling of the Akal Takht was made clear over 20 years ago. :noticekudi:

See http://www.sikhs.org/meat.htm

and

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Common_views_on_meat_eating

 

[Randip Singh]

Thank you!! So just to confirm, you are trying to say that it is just a saying, as people that are like that have like, um, bad intentions / live not a true way?

I think the meaning of the Shabad does apply to your situation but not as you think. Its not about consuming flesh but more to do with peoples intention.

I don't think you have any bad intent.

Waheguru won't judge you for what you consume.