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Tejwant Singh Ji
<?"urn:<st1:country-region w:st="on">UK</st1:country-region> for anti-gurmat activity. They may have reunited since then.

An incident is often quoted by ragis and kathavachak that once Guru Gobind Singh Ji instructed a Sikh to slap another for mispronouncing bani, thereby also distorting its meaning. I for one do not feel Guru Ji would have given any such instructions where the Sikh in question (a mere learner) mispronounced the word in innocence. Contrast this with Ram Rai who deliberately interfered with Gurbani for personal gain and acceptance at the mogul’s court. Some Sikhs view such an act even graver than killing someone. In the latter case one life is lost but in the former changing the contents, of what we consider the Ultimate and Eternal Guru, would distress millions of lives.

I apologise for the long post - but it was only to answer your concerns and luckily being the weekend I had a little time. Please note that all the comments are a general expression of how I perceive things and in no way a criticism of you or your views. Even your brief posts are a challenge for a humble seeker like me. I do hope this helped.

Kind regards

Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’

<blockquote data-quote="arshi" data-source="post: 121041" data-attributes="member: 9479">Tejwant Singh Ji&lt;?&quot;urn:<img src="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/ /&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;Gurfateh&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;I&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/I&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;I&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;[quote]&lt;I&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;Thanks for your response. I know you are a very busy person and besides being so busy you take some time out to respond to my queries and make me learn, which is one true seva and you have no idea how much I appreciate it.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/I&gt;[/quote]&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/I&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;I am no busier than most, but simply allocate my time according to the daily/weekly demands. Some individuals are more adept in juggling a number of commitments at the same time. However, I am not endowed with such talent and can only handle so much at a time. I agree we all learn from each other and it would not be an exaggeration to say that I, too, learn a lot from your posts, in particular, your knowledge of other faiths.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;I&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;[quote]&lt;I&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;I do apologise that my posts are long which makes you a bit uncomfy because of the shortage of time you have but I am a sucker for the knowledge given to us in SGGS, our only Guru and that is the only benchmark I have to gauge my own journey with and keep myself in check.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/I&gt;[/quote]&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/I&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;Tejwant ji, although some of your posts are long, they do raise many issues of interest, though sometimes I get the feeling that, occasionally, you know the answer or have an innocent fixation (only an observation) but are merely testing the conviction of the other party (please do forgive me if I am wrong). Even your shorter posts have a quality which will test any scholar! I am but a humble learner.&lt;B&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;I&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;[quote]&lt;I&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;As I am a sucker for Gurbani, I would like you to write an essay or two regarding the 2 Sakhis you mentioned and how in one the actions contradict Gurmat ideals and in the other one they compliment and yet, both you agree with?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/I&gt;[/quote]&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/I&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;I, too, am dedicated to Gurbani, through and through, and Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the Eternal Light I look towards to guide me on my spiritual journey.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt; It is not always easy to understand and interpret Gurbani particularly when, as in my case, one has had no formal training. We should breathe, inhale, Gurbani all the time.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;I&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;har amri&lt;U&gt;t&lt;/U&gt; naam &lt;U&gt;bh&lt;/U&gt;ojan ni&lt;U&gt;t&lt;/U&gt; &lt;U&gt;bh&lt;/U&gt;unchahu sarab vaylaa mu&lt;U&gt;kh&lt;/U&gt; paavhu.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/I&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;FONT face=Tahoma&gt;Let your daily meal be the Nectar of Lord’s Name; at all times put this ambrosial food into your mouth. (SGGS 611)&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;I very much regret the years I have wasted, when I have been divorced from my Satguru – the mere thought wells up tears in my eyes and shake me inside out - but it is only with His blessings &lt;I&gt;(gur parsad) &lt;/I&gt;that we are able to realign our journey. &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;I often try and find time to read books by learned Sikh scholars, e.g. Bhai Gurdas ji, Bhai Vir Singh ji, Gyani Maskin ji to enhance my understanding of Gurbani and of course also &lt;I&gt;itihaas&lt;/I&gt; as it often gives the background to enrich that understanding. This includes Bani of Dasam Pita (e.g. Jaap Sahib, Savaiaye) and I do not worry what others think, but if any scripture enables me to understand my Satguru better, then the means justify the end. I have, I am sure you will agree, a right to hold what is sacred to me and discard what is not and will not always let a controversy taint my judgment until the matter is resolved without a shred of doubt. I will not let politics sway me from my path unless I consider the matter is directly blocking my path towards spirituality. Faith is, to a greater extent a personal matter, and the trouble with organised ‘religion’ is that it sometimes sucks people in to act against their nature and their inner voice. I am, here, &lt;B&gt;merely opening my heart out to you and in no way critical of your views&lt;/B&gt;, which I know you always give in total sincerity and goodwill.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;I&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;[quote]&lt;I&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;Here we are not talking about any actions of the Jathedars of the Akal Takhat but the actions of one jyot in two bodies. Our two Gurus who were closer than any one of us with Ik Ong Kaar who is Nirbhau, Nirvair and ever forgiving and never a punisher but a motivator, a true teacher- SATGURU who makes his students learn no matter how many times a bad student like me has made mistakes.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/I&gt;[/quote]&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/I&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;B&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/B&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;I only quoted two examples from the top of my head and have no reason to question the action of the both the Gurus under the circumstances. Interestingly, &lt;B&gt;IJ Singh ji&lt;/B&gt; has also quoted one of the incidents in his article (Tribal justice and excommunication):&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;I&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;“Guru Har Rai shunned his own son Ram Rai because he had changed a line of gurbani in deference to Emperor Aurangzeb. Guru Har Rai shunned his own son Ram Rai because he had changed a line of gurbani in deference to Emperor Aurangzeb.”&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/I&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;Yes ten Gurus and a single &lt;I&gt;jyot&lt;/I&gt; but each showed unique characteristics of its own to give us a complete and rounded picture of life and how to live it. Otherwise what was the need of the successors?&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;I guess that the Seventh Nanak applied more exacting standards in the case of his son as others may see it as nepotism, if he didn’t. In the case of Guru Amar Das, Baba Dattoo ji was the son of the second Guru whom he had served for many years. Perhaps Guru Ji took into account Dattoo Ji’s disappointment in not getting the Gurgaddi which he felt was rightfully (his viewpoint) his.&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;Interfering with Gurbani is a very grave offence and that too of a Guru other than Baba Dattoo’s father. Would he have taken a more lenient attitude if Baba Ram Rai had misquoted Guru Har Rai Ji? I do not know! Whether a course of action is right or wrong also depends on the times and circumstances ruling then. Hundreds of years later we may come to a different and even wrong deduction. &lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;&lt;/FONT&gt;&lt;/P&gt;&lt;P&gt;&lt;FONT face=Verdana&gt;It is ironic to note, if it serves my memory right, that about 25 years ago, I heard from a source quite close to Prof Darshan Singh ji at the time that he had shunned his own brother living in &lt;?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns =" alt="" class="fr-fic fr-dii fr-draggable " style="" />&lt;st1:country-region w:st=&quot;on&quot;&gt;UK&lt;/st1:country-region&gt; for anti-gurmat activity. They may have reunited since then.An incident is often quoted by ragis and kathavachak that once Guru Gobind Singh Ji instructed a Sikh to slap another for mispronouncing bani, thereby also distorting its meaning. I for one do not feel Guru Ji would have given any such instructions where the Sikh in question (a mere learner) mispronounced the word in innocence. Contrast this with Ram Rai who deliberately interfered with Gurbani for personal gain and acceptance at the mogul’s court. Some Sikhs view such an act even graver than killing someone. In the latter case one life is lost but in the former changing the contents, of what we consider the Ultimate and Eternal Guru, would distress millions of lives. I apologise for the long post - but it was only to answer your concerns and luckily being the weekend I had a little time. Please note that all the comments are a general expression of how I perceive things and in no way a criticism of you or your views. Even your brief posts are a challenge for a humble seeker like me. I do hope this helped.Kind regards Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’</blockquote>

[QUOTE="arshi, post: 121041, member: 9479"] [FONT=Verdana]Tejwant Singh Ji[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]<?"urn:[IMG]http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/ />Gurfateh[quote]Thanks for your response. I know you are a very busy person and besides being so busy you take some time out to respond to my queries and make me learn, which is one true seva and you have no idea how much I appreciate it.[/quote]I am no busier than most, but simply allocate my time according to the daily/weekly demands. Some individuals are more adept in juggling a number of commitments at the same time. However, I am not endowed with such talent and can only handle so much at a time. I agree we all learn from each other and it would not be an exaggeration to say that I, too, learn a lot from your posts, in particular, your knowledge of other faiths.[quote]I do apologise that my posts are long which makes you a bit uncomfy because of the shortage of time you have but I am a sucker for the knowledge given to us in SGGS, our only Guru and that is the only benchmark I have to gauge my own journey with and keep myself in check.[/quote]Tejwant ji, although some of your posts are long, they do raise many issues of interest, though sometimes I get the feeling that, occasionally, you know the answer or have an innocent fixation (only an observation) but are merely testing the conviction of the other party (please do forgive me if I am wrong). Even your shorter posts have a quality which will test any scholar! I am but a humble learner.[quote]As I am a sucker for Gurbani, I would like you to write an essay or two regarding the 2 Sakhis you mentioned and how in one the actions contradict Gurmat ideals and in the other one they compliment and yet, both you agree with?[/quote]I, too, am dedicated to Gurbani, through and through, and Guru Granth Sahib Ji is the Eternal Light I look towards to guide me on my spiritual journey. It is not always easy to understand and interpret Gurbani particularly when, as in my case, one has had no formal training. We should breathe, inhale, Gurbani all the time.har amrit naam bhojan nit bhunchahu sarab vaylaa mukh paavhu.Let your daily meal be the Nectar of Lord’s Name; at all times put this ambrosial food into your mouth. (SGGS 611)I very much regret the years I have wasted, when I have been divorced from my Satguru – the mere thought wells up tears in my eyes and shake me inside out - but it is only with His blessings (gur parsad) that we are able to realign our journey. I often try and find time to read books by learned Sikh scholars, e.g. Bhai Gurdas ji, Bhai Vir Singh ji, Gyani Maskin ji to enhance my understanding of Gurbani and of course also itihaas as it often gives the background to enrich that understanding. This includes Bani of Dasam Pita (e.g. Jaap Sahib, Savaiaye) and I do not worry what others think, but if any scripture enables me to understand my Satguru better, then the means justify the end. I have, I am sure you will agree, a right to hold what is sacred to me and discard what is not and will not always let a controversy taint my judgment until the matter is resolved without a shred of doubt. I will not let politics sway me from my path unless I consider the matter is directly blocking my path towards spirituality. Faith is, to a greater extent a personal matter, and the trouble with organised ‘religion’ is that it sometimes sucks people in to act against their nature and their inner voice. I am, here, merely opening my heart out to you and in no way critical of your views, which I know you always give in total sincerity and goodwill.[quote]Here we are not talking about any actions of the Jathedars of the Akal Takhat but the actions of one jyot in two bodies. Our two Gurus who were closer than any one of us with Ik Ong Kaar who is Nirbhau, Nirvair and ever forgiving and never a punisher but a motivator, a true teacher- SATGURU who makes his students learn no matter how many times a bad student like me has made mistakes.[/quote]I only quoted two examples from the top of my head and have no reason to question the action of the both the Gurus under the circumstances. Interestingly, IJ Singh ji has also quoted one of the incidents in his article (Tribal justice and excommunication):“Guru Har Rai shunned his own son Ram Rai because he had changed a line of gurbani in deference to Emperor Aurangzeb. Guru Har Rai shunned his own son Ram Rai because he had changed a line of gurbani in deference to Emperor Aurangzeb.”Yes ten Gurus and a single jyot but each showed unique characteristics of its own to give us a complete and rounded picture of life and how to live it. Otherwise what was the need of the successors?I guess that the Seventh Nanak applied more exacting standards in the case of his son as others may see it as nepotism, if he didn’t. In the case of Guru Amar Das, Baba Dattoo ji was the son of the second Guru whom he had served for many years. Perhaps Guru Ji took into account Dattoo Ji’s disappointment in not getting the Gurgaddi which he felt was rightfully (his viewpoint) his.Interfering with Gurbani is a very grave offence and that too of a Guru other than Baba Dattoo’s father. Would he have taken a more lenient attitude if Baba Ram Rai had misquoted Guru Har Rai Ji? I do not know! Whether a course of action is right or wrong also depends on the times and circumstances ruling then. Hundreds of years later we may come to a different and even wrong deduction. It is ironic to note, if it serves my memory right, that about 25 years ago, I heard from a source quite close to Prof Darshan Singh ji at the time that he had shunned his own brother living in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = [/IMG]<st1:country-region w:st="on">UK</st1:country-region> for anti-gurmat activity. They may have reunited since then.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]An incident is often quoted by ragis and kathavachak that once Guru Gobind Singh Ji instructed a Sikh to slap another for mispronouncing bani, thereby also distorting its meaning. I for one do not feel Guru Ji would have given any such instructions where the Sikh in question (a mere learner) [B]mispronounced the word[/B] [B]in innocence[/B]. [B]Contrast this with Ram Rai[/B] [B]who deliberately interfered with Gurbani [/B]for personal gain and acceptance at the mogul’s court. Some Sikhs view such an act even graver than killing someone. In the latter case one life is lost but in the former changing the contents, of what we consider the Ultimate and Eternal Guru, would distress millions of lives. [/FONT][FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [B][FONT=Verdana][/FONT][/B] [FONT=Verdana]I apologise for the long post - but it was only to answer your concerns and luckily being the weekend I had a little time. [B]Please note that all the comments are a general expression of how I perceive things and in no way a criticism of you or your views.[/B] Even your brief posts are a challenge for a humble seeker like me. I do hope this helped.[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]Kind regards [/FONT] [FONT=Verdana][/FONT] [FONT=Verdana]Rajinder Singh ‘Arshi’[/FONT] [/QUOTE]

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