Legal Anomalies Force Govt To Amend Rape Law

[rajneesh madhok]

NEW DELHI:An illiterate, poor father's petition in the Delhi high court has forced the Union government to agree to bring wide-ranging reforms in rape laws that will treat sex with any women less than 18 years of age as rape.

Mahadev, whose daughter was allegedly kidnapped and forcibly married only to become a pregnant underaged teen, had in his petition filed two years ago exposed the conflicting provisions in IPC and Prevention of Child Marriage Act that led to serious anomalies. Over two years, a special bench grappled with Mahadev's arguments made through his lawyer Arvind Jain and repeatedly questioned the central government, demanding to know why there were conflicting provisions in law that in effect encouraged child marriages.

HC had also roped in bodies like the law commission and women's commission to brainstorm and find a solution. All this while Mahadev's pregnant daughter continued to languish in Nari Niketan because her husband was behind bars and the custody couldn't be given to the father.

Left with little room to manoeuvre, the government has decided to amend the IPC and CrPC to remove existing discrepancies that allow different penal yardsticks for 'age of consent (16)', 'marriageable age (18)' and 'exception to cohabit with wife (12-16 years)'.

A draft bill detailing amendments, submitted before a special bench on Friday by the government promises to keep 18 years as the uniform age for marriage and consent, abolishing all exceptions. In other words, sex with a girl less than 18 years will amount to rape and no discount can be given to a male who has a minor wife. Currently marital rape of a minor has lesser punishment.

The draft bill also does away with an exception under section 198 of CrPC that prohibited a court from taking cognizance of a rape complaint by a minor wife if lodged one year after the incident.

In his petition Mahadev has urged HC to strike down the sub-sections of Section 375 and 376 which do not consider rape of a woman by her husband as a crime. He had also challenged Section 6 (C) of Hindu Minority and Guardian Act and Section 198(6) of CrPC stating they were unconstitutional and in violation of his and his daughter's fundamental rights.

The petition also highlighted how under a provision of Section 376, a man raping his wife can be punished for rape.

Rajneesh Madhok

 

[kds1980]

LOL this means that India is now becoming country of rapists.Villagers still marry their daughters at the age of 15-16 and no law is going to stop them doing this.Despite ban on child marriages after 63 years India cannot stop child marriages.Also what about muslim personal law that sanctions the age of 15 as marriagable age? You can make 100 of laws but unless they are socially acceptable they are of no use except that police will increase bribe

 

[spnadmin]

LOL this means that India is now becoming country of rapists.Villagers still marry their daughters at the age of 15-16 and no law is going to stop them doing this.Despite ban on child marriages after 63 years India cannot stop child marriages.Also what about muslim personal law that sanctions the age of 15 as marriagable age? You can make 100 of laws but unless they are socially acceptable they are of no use except that police will increase bribe

Kanwardeep Singh - You are right that this has been ingrained in society for eons. But what do you propose as a solution? Or should GOI just let things continue as they have done.

Young girls bleeding to death from repeated forcible penetration. It takes about 12 hours to die from this kind of internal injury. Girls beaten when they try to escape. Girls having no sanctuary when their in-laws control them and their parents reject them. Children born to children. Girls finding their wombs torn from early childbirth, perhaps dying in childbirth from internal bleeding, perhaps becoming infertile from the internal injuries incurred because they are too small to give birth. Perhaps ending up dead or thrown out once they can no longer bear children. There have been centuries of this too.

You know our SRM looks negatively upon this. What other plan would work?

BROKEN BODIES, BROKEN DREAMS
http://brokendreams.wordpress.com/2006/09/12/child-marriage-part-2/

 

[kds1980]

Kanwardeep Singh - You are right that this has been ingrained in society for eons. But what do you propose as a solution? Or should GOI just let things continue as they have done.

Young girls bleeding to death from repeated forcible penetration. It takes about 12 hours to die from this kind of internal injury. Girls beaten when they try to escape. Girls having no sanctuary when their in-laws control them and their parents reject them. Children born to children. Girls finding their wombs torn from early childbirth, perhaps dying in childbirth from internal bleeding, perhaps becoming infertile from the internal injuries incurred because they are too small to give birth. Perhaps ending up dead or thrown out once they can no longer bear children. There have been centuries of this too.

You know our SRM looks negatively upon this. What other plan would work?

BROKEN BODIES, BROKEN DREAMS
Child Marriage: Part 2 Broken Bodies – Broken Dreams

narayanjot ji

I am not supporting child marriages Where their is medical risk because of underage sex or pregnancy then law should be their But on the other hand I am that age of 16 for consent is O.K as Majority of developed countries have accepted this age so I am assuming that 16 is medically safe for a girl to have sex and bear child.I still remember
that when i was living in joint family our maid who was barely 12 told us that she is getting married but then she also informed that ceremony of Gonaa (living with husband will take place when she will become 15-16)

It is very clear that in small towns and villages people do will continue to marry their daughters which are 16-17.Also what about many school girls who become sexually active at 16? by increasing age of consent to 18 and declaring every intercourse even with wife which is 16 or 17 GOI is going to declare majority of India as rapists.This law will only benefit policemen who will take more bribe's or parents who will harrass their daughters which are married or are in relationship with their lovers even if they are above 18

Also muslim personal law is very clear that a muslim girl can marry at the age of 15 ,now is their going to another age of consent law for muslims or majority of muslim men are going to be behind bars

 

[rajneesh madhok]

Dear friends,
The issue is that no body supports child marriages in India. But the main point by which the people are getting their daughters married in tender age is due to the reason that if the girl child had developed physical relations before marriage or she indulged in love affair then it will bring bad name to the family. Though most of the persons know that they are putting their daughters in unnecessary medical risks due to underage sex or pregnancy and the Govt has formed the law of marriage able for girls 18 and for boys 21. Now the question is that how much families in Rajasthan are following this act. Where the large scale marriage is being performed at one place and thousands of marriages are being done on a single day and the Ministers and bureaucrats attend those marriages. Why the act has been put on shelf on those marriages.
Though majority of developed countries have accepted the marriageable age of 16 but in India according to law it is an offence to get the girl child marriage before 18 years but no body cares about the laws framed. The discussion should be made and the opinion of Physicians and Gynecologists should be taken regarding the appropriate age of marriage. We can not assume that 16 is the medically safe age for a girl to bear child.
Now the question arise when the girls become sexually active in the age group of 15-16 then it is no harm to get them married at this age. We come to the traditions continuing since centuries in Bihar, Bengal, Orissa, U.P. and Rajasthan where the marriages of the children are being solemnized at the tender age say 8-10 years old children. Yes this is the tradition that the GONA ceremony is being organized after a few years of marriage say when the girl becomes 15-16 years old. This tradition had so many minus points. As in some of the cases the child who got married at the age of 8-9 years and by the age when she has to get the right to live with her husband the gap of 6-7 years. In this gap if the husband dies then she becomes widow without living with her husband and on that point she had to get married with an old man say more than 60 years old man as she had been widow and no one will accept her as wife due to her second marriage.
Now the question will not come to end on this point that majoirity of Indians will be come in to the clutches of law as they will become rapists or they will have to grease the palm of the Police personnel. The point of harassment will start in plenty as there is a law 498A in this law most of the cases are fabricated every family dispute is being turned to the Dowry case. As the parents know that the husband and his family members can be harassed most with the help of this law. The mental, physical torture of every family member can be made with the implication of 498A (Dowry Act). Now with this act when the person can be declared rapist though legally married then the harassment of the husbands will multiply. We are seeing the Live in relationships in the metro cities and towns and when the dispute between the couple start the first point is that the girl implicate the boy in rape case.
Muslim personal law allows the girl to marry at the age of 15. I hope this law of consent of marriage will not be applicable on muslim men.
Why the teenage pregnancy news are common in the media now-a-days. Why the girls in the age group of 13-19 are becoming pregnant. The average age of menarche (first menstrual period) is 12-13 years. Does it mean that the girl is fit for pregnancy? Why not the majority of the villagers and small town people understand. You keep on discussing the issue that the pregnant teenagers face many of the obstetrics issues than the women in the age group of 20s and 30s. The medical facilities available to look after the mother and child in Governemt hospitals, their conditions ---every body knows. Even then the people don’t understand the risk factor. Why the society give more stress on Socio-economic factors, Social issues like educational factor, poverty, and the Reputation of the family gets marred if the love affair comes in to light----Social stigma. These are the factors involved in teenage pregnancies in developing countries and so the cultures are being developed.
The teenage pregnancies in developed countries like United States, U.K. have the highest level whereas in Japan and South Korea it is lowest.
In India the factor is as discussed above.
Rajneesh Madhok

 

[spnadmin]

Vikram ji

I share your frustration. It runs very deep. And the pregnancies of children in the US and UK at the young ages of 13, and sometimes younger than that, is a frightening trend. It is a trend that has already shown increased medical and psychological risks for the children who are born to mothers who are nothing but girls. It has increased the medical threats to the health of the mothers. It has already changed western societies in ways that are irreversible. Yet it continues.

Does it make sense to turn away from the hazards faced by girls?

And again I ask...does it make sense to simply forget the entire matter because there are so many obstacles built into the system? Police will benefit, judges will connive with families, or western governments will pay benefits to children outside of marriage. If there are so many obstacles, and if there are so many reasons why the law will not work, then perhaps it is time to put the matter aside and not consider it worth discussion. Of course I am not serious in that last point. It is a matter worthy of discussion. In fact if we care about our grandchildren we have to find solutions that will work.

What will reverse these trends, if this law is going to be ineffective? So then what will work?

 

[kds1980]

Now with this act when the person can be declared rapist though legally married then the harassment of the husbands will multiply. We are seeing the Live in relationships in the metro cities and towns and when the dispute between the couple start the first point is that the girl implicate the boy in rape case.
Muslim personal law allows the girl to marry at the age of 15. I hope this law of consent of marriage will not be applicable on muslim men.

It is not possible that this law is not applicable on muslim men as rape law is universal.If GOI gives them exception then there is going to huge dispute.Anyway if more and more girls will start filing false cases against their BFs for rape cases then police will hardly take these cases seriously and even in genuine rape case they will shoo away the real victim after accepting money

BTW i agree with you that that laws in India mostly misused despite that Indian Government is making draconian laws in the name of protecting women's right.With this we will see more rise in corruption and people taking law in their own hand

 

[kds1980]

Does it make sense to turn away from the hazards faced by girls?

I agree with it that it does not make sense to turn away hazards faced by girls? But also does it make sense that you will charge so many men for having consensual sex with their 16 year old wives? Rape is a very serious charge and could ruin the entire life of a man.If government is really serious then they could enact another law which should first try to educate the husband about health of Girl and danger of underage pregnancy.Punishment in these type of cases should start with fines and if offence repeated then should lead to imprisionment .Charging men with serious offence like rape looks like it as draconian law
and this could lead to bribing police taking help of local henchmenetc

 

[spnadmin]

Kanwardeep ji

I disagree on many levels. For one thing if serious physical injury is done to a girl on her wedding night a fine comes kind of late in the day. She has already been physically violated, and injuries can be so serious -- well I have already described that and provided a link to a child-marriage blog just above. On the policy side of this boys are just as vulnerable as girls in this matter because they are roped into the marriages. If they are not boys, but grown men, who are the husbands, they may be the old dog who cannot learn new tricks -- or doesn't want to.

The issue is grotesque. The Indian government must have some critical mass of people who are motivated to find a solution. I cannot believe that in a country of over 1 billion people there are not a few thousand who have positive intentions and are not smart enough to figure a way over these obstacles.

Maybe there is a need to take a look at the discussions that have taken place in the policy maker and medical community to get to the bottom of the problems that keep this law from being practical or realistic. In the US we see this same problem with polygamists who make child-marriage part of their religious beliefs. There is always a period of dilly-dallying before authorities find the guts to intervene.When they do it is off to jail.

 

[kds1980]

Narayanjot ji

The link you have provided is dealing with sex with girls aging 10-12.I agree that in those cases severe punishment should be their by law.On the other hand I am discussing issue of marriage with girls aging 16-17.When most developed countries have age of consent at 16 then it is not possible that an injury could happen to 16 year old girl because of sex

 

[spnadmin]

Kanwardeep Singh ji

Thanks for clarifying.

The next area that we have not looked at in the discussion is another provision of this change.

In his petition Mahadev has urged HC to strike down the sub-sections of Section 375 and 376 which do not consider rape of a woman by her husband as a crime. He had also challenged Section 6 (C) of Hindu Minority and Guardian Act and Section 198(6) of CrPC stating they were unconstitutional and in violation of his and his daughter's fundamental rights.

 

[kds1980]

In his petition Mahadev has urged HC to strike down the sub-sections of Section 375 and 376 which do not consider rape of a woman by her husband as a crime. He had also challenged Section 6 (C) of Hindu Minority and Guardian Act and Section 198(6) of CrPC stating they were unconstitutional and in violation of his and his daughter's fundamental rights.

Yes marital rape is not fully recognised by India but there is punishment for it.

India abolishes husbands' 'right' to rape wife - Asia, World - The Independent

Now if marital rape is going to be considered as any other rape then there is going to another huge problem.Who is going to decide whether the sex was consensual or forced(rape)?We have already seen how many many women their families have falsely charged their husbands in fake dowry cases now are we going to see another wave of falsely charging husbands with rape.One men's right activist has already said that if their is going to be law against marital rape then women who are going to charge their wives with rape false should also be punished.So provisions for safeguard for both sides should be considerd
Like there should be no out of court settlements if rape charge is filed and if woman is unable to prove the rape then she should be punished in jail.The problem is that Indian government has made and still making laws which are draconian and easily used just to extract money and harass men

 

[kds1980]

Husbands can't get away with marital rape: Government - dnaindia.com

While women groups say that marital rape is a worldwide phenomenon and almost 50% of women face forced sex by their husbands, men’s organisations said the changes in law would essentially damage the fabric of a family system.

“This means that the government wants police to enter bedrooms now, which is a sure shot way to break a marriage as no relationship will work if these rules are enforced,” said Virag Dhulia of the Save Indian Family Foundation (SIFF), an organisation of harassed husbands.

 

[kds1980]

Domestic Violence Act or Demoralized and Violated Act All India Mother-in-law Protection Forum

06 Feb 10 Domestic Violence Act or Demoralized and Violated Act


The Domestic Violence Act was passed in 2005.and implemented in 2006 for the protection of women (Wife). But the Law-Makers have completely forgotten or rather ignored the fact that violence can be inflicted by the same wife on the members of the family either mentally, physically, emotionally, verbally, socially and financially in order to gain personal scores, to have financial control or to separate the husband from the parents. According to the law, only the wife can make a complaint and it does not require any proof for her to claim maintenance from the husband. With fabricated stories and crocodile tears she can easily register a false case .The judges feel it is their duty to protect even adulterous wives thus doing injustice to the victim husband and his family.

Each individual coming together make a family and a home. Many homes taken together make a society, a village, a town, a city and a country. But in India gradually the society is breaking up due to the domestic violence happening in each and every home. Why is it that in every family problems start only after a daughter in-law enters the home?

The Government is spending enormously in combating terrorism on the borders of the country but when will the issue of domestic terrorists in the guise of daughter- in- law who Misuses the laws and creates havoc in the families be properly tackled.

Thousands of daughters-in-law have filed criminal cases on their in-laws on flimsy grounds only with the intention to harass and humiliate them and to extort money. Many such victimized mothers-in-law have founded the AIMPF (All INDIA MOTHERS-IN-LAW PROTECTION FORUM) in Bangalore on the 6th of Sept. 2009 followed by similar launch of local chapters in Delhi, Nagpur, Hyderabad, Chennai, Chhattisgarh and Lucknow. More local chapters are yet to open shortly.

The famous women rights activist, Madhu Kishwar has acknowledged the fact that the IPC Section 498A and the Domestic Violence Act are Misused and a significant number of individuals who approached Manushi these days are mothers-in-law and husbands falsely accused of marital cruelty and dowry harassment. She further said that AIMPF would strive towards the protection and welfare of such mothers-in-law in distress by creating awareness, giving them moral support and counseling them.

In the last four years 1, 23,497 women who are mothers-in-law and sisters-in-law (husband’s relatives) were arrested under 498A and also accused of domestic violence for not committing any crime under the law but because they were related to a man.

The Government should reform the present Wife-centric domestic violence law giving equal protection to the mothers-in-law and even to the husbands and children thus including every member in the society who deserve protection irrespective of gender.

Mothers-in-law are being discriminated against in-spite of their generosity just for the sin of giving birth to sons and getting them married. They are being forced to part with their earnings, savings and inherited wealth. They are also being thrown out of their own property at the behest of disgruntled daughter-in-law.

Save Family Foundation and My Nation Foundation had conducted an online survey between April 2005 and March 2006 and found that out of 1,00,000 men surveyed 98% of men faced severe domestic violence at the hands of their wives and in-laws in the form of verbal, physical, mental, emotional and financial abuse

1. Economic violence was the commonest faced by 32.8%.


2. Physical violence was the closest second at 25.2%

3. Emotional violence followed suit at 22.2%

4. Sexual violence contended fourth with 17.7%

5. Verbal abuse was a problem faced by all men in the above categories.

The gruesome reality is that men suffer in silence for the fear of being discredited or ridiculed in the society. This has resulted in a lot of psychological imbalance, sometimes irreparable damage to the abused male and his family. Even the society believes that men who face domestic violence are somehow responsible for it and should be made to pay the price. This is the reason why the society does not accept/support weak men or men who are victims of domestic violence

The Protector and the Provider of the Family (Male) suffers domestic violence from boyhood to manhood in many ways. Domestic violence can inflicted on employees and servants too can be victims of it, then why only the Wife is taken into consideration under this Act?

Although this Act is propagated by the lawyers and supported by the NCW even the Judiciary is equally responsible for the present condition of the society. From times immemorial the judges avoid listening to a man and without any verification or checking the evidences blindly support the woman. The Disgruntled Wife is thus successful in having orders passed in her favor.

The day is not far when men will refuse to Marry, where will the young, greedy women go then and what will be the future generation?

International studies the world over, including those done by Murray Strauss have proved beyond reasonable doubts that both men and women are equally likely to face domestic violence from their Partners and immediate family including a woman in her natal home by her own parents.

Thus Domestic violence is NOT A ONE GENDER ISSUE as vouched by the Feminists, advocated by the Lawyers, presented by the Media envisaged by the Government, and justified by the Judiciary.

It is rather a SOCIAL ISSUE and needs to be addressed as a social problem only where in there are no ubiquitous and stereotypic assumptions, no double standards and punishment should be CRIME-BASED and not Gender based.

Tags: adulterous wives, chhattisgarh, combating terrorism, crocodile tears, daughters in law, domestic terrorists, domestic violence act, false case, famous women, madhu kishwar, members of the family, mothers in law, nagpur, personal scores, rights activist

 

[rajneesh madhok]

Dear Dr. Narayanjot kaurji,
Regards,
Sorry for replying late to your posts. Madam, I hope that the post addressed to Vikaram ji is meant for me as Vikram ji has not replied in this post so far. I would like to clarify here.
Madam, as you have written that I share your frustration. I could not understand what do you mean by my frustrations. No doubt the impact of the problem is very deep. It is a matter of great sorrow and worry that the teenage pregnancies are common in US and UK which is really a frightening trend.
Now we come to the point what contributions have been made by the NGOs like us, as we are working for the benefit of masses. Everybody knows that the impact of the teenage pregnancies manifold medical and psychological risks. Due to the teenage mothers giving birth to the kids the health of teenage mothers and children is deteriorating. If we talk the trend has put its marks on western societies alone it is not there. The problems of both of the sides are common. The Eastern side teenage girls are giving birth to the children due to the family pressure of getting married in the early age. The reason behind it is the family honour is being considered as utmost important and it is considered if the girl child entangled in to the love affair before marriage, it will provide bad name to the family, so the parents like to get their daughters married in early age to save their reputation and dignity. This trend is going on from centuries and there is no end to it.
What the Government will do when the general public is not following the rules/ laws framed by the Government. In Rajasthan, U.P, M.P. and Bihar the teenage marriages are being solemnized and the grand event is being celebrated and the ministers, bureaucrats used to participate in those occasion. As this is all the political drama so nobody raise his/ her voice.
Does it make sense to turn away from the hazards faced by girls?

• Whether it is a good solution if we shut our eyes on looking in to the justice.
• Whether the pigeon on seeing cat save its life by shutting eyes? Whether the problem will be solved if we turn our face to the problem.
• There are so many obstacles in the system but there is no solution to it.
• All the laws are being formed, the judges and the police personnels get benefited with the laws, but the system gets more cumbersome. The straightaway decision will be made so cumbersome that the justice will be denied as the case will linger on not up to months but to years.
• Suppose that you don’t admit my view points. Even then the problem will not be solved.
• The discussion will be made and ultimately there will not be any fruitful solution to the problem.
• Do you have any fruitful solution to the problem. The laws, rules and regulations are being formed daily. The power of a peon is more than Chief Justice as when the Summon Delivery peon visit to the Respondent to deliver the summon, the respondent grease the palm of the Peon and he goes back with the remarks on the Peon book and the summon that the Respondent has gone away. The judge keep on issuing the summons and the Delivery peon goes on returning the summons with one pretext to other. The simple decision will not be made in years. So, what is the use to frame so many laws, rules and regulations.
• Now tell me how the law will be effective when the power of a peon is more than Judge. The decision could not be made without the presence of the Respondent and the respondent’s job is being done in the meager amount of Rs 50 to 100. Just imagine how much money is being wasted in organizing the courts and how much expenditures the govt has to bear in one hearing. With the meager amount of Rs 50-100 the loss to the Govt. exchequer is in millions.

Now come to the point:
The system has been in practice from years. Madam there is no solution to the problem. As the system is going on it will remain as it is and there will not be a change in the system.
The young girls keep on bleeding to death from forcible penetration. We are going across such type of news but there is no solution to it. In the prostitution centers, in small towns even at the eatable joints the Aunties are running brothel institutes and the Police is mum and the teenage girls are becoming victim to the injustice. There are so many girls those try to escape from this malpractice but are helpless. The reasons may be due to poverty. The parents and the in-laws of those girls are involved in this large scale prostitution. How can this problem will be solved, when the large scale of people are involved in this vicious circle.
The Girls are doing unsafe sex. This is all due to the availability of drugs, like Smack and heroine in the small towns even. The teenage girls and boys first of all develop the habits of drugs and then the prostitution activities start and there is no end to this problem. I am not talking about the western countries, the talk is about the small to medium towns even. These girls are then married in teenage and due to the habit they had developed before marriage so they could not be adjusted in their in-laws house. Whether this trend will come to end.


Madam what is the solution to the problems of teenage pregnancies. We are not talking about the teenage marriages. The trend which has been going deep and deep and the teenage girls are being following this path how can we check this menace. The injuries those girls get are so serious that they develop Ovarian cancer and comes in to the clutches of Aids due to unsafe sex. The trend is so bad that the eating joints used to provide the space for these activities and the police though knows everything keep shut their eyes due to the greasing of palm. Whether we shall consider these facts as rape or prostitution or the trend adopted by the Paying Guests those have come to the distant places from their homes. What to talk about the new tricks?
The issue is really grotesque. I put the ball in your court. Now kindly suggest the solution to the fast developing trend. No doubt India is a country of 1 billion people, and there are thousands like minded people those want to get the solutions to the fast developing sex trend in the small, medium and metro cities.

PRACTICAL & REALISTIC

Kindly suggest the solution that will give practical and realistic look to the problem. Whether this discussion will be fruitful. The policy makers and medical community discuss matter and the law community frame laws but the implementation of the laws is very poor. In US we can say there is solution to the problem but India if the trend goes out for few years then there will not be solution to the problem. The dilly dallying attitude of the Administration, Govt. and bureaucrats will not come to an end. We people can discuss the problem and there is no solution to the problem.
Now come to the point. In this petition Mahadev has urged HC to strike down the sub-sections of Section 375 and 376 which do not consider rape of a woman by her husband as a crime and he had challenged Section 6© of Hindu Minority and Guardian Act and Sec 198(6) of CrPC stating they were unconstitutional and in violation of his and the daughter’s fundamental rights.
Madam now the new problem has been discussed. Whether it is part of the fundamental right.
The facts summarizes the multidisciplinary study aimed at understanding the complex social, economic, cultural and psychological contexts of unwanted and adolescent pregnancy. The results of the discussion has exposed so many new chapters. The points to be considered:

• Exposure to the risk of becoming pregnant.
• Exposure to the risk of developing Sexually transmitted diseases.
• Is it due to economic deprivation, material dependency or changing life style.
• No Use of contraceptives, Why?
• Is it due to political and religious propaganda only but in practical every body is selfish.

Rajneesh madhok

 

[spnadmin]

rajneesh ji

Please forgive me for addressing you as Vikram ji. A lapse of attention and I am very sorry. A lot has been written in the past day or so. My plan is to reply in a comprehensive way.

Just in brief. It is one thing to say that a law has flaws. These can be amended. Doesn't this happen every day? But I am not reading any talk of that...with the discussion sounding more like the problem to be addressed is not as serious as the law makes it look, or conditions cannot be changed because of the inherent wickedness of parties concerned, or the law will lead to more corruption, or some other group will be harmed in some way. Just a few counter arguments. But do these objectives have more to do with the application of the law than the law itself.

My understanding is that imperfect applications of law are a common occurrence in most democracies. The imperfections can be set right through legislation and clarifications in different levels of courts.

You have "put the ball" in my court in a number of places, and asked my what I think the solution is. To me the solution cannot be a reaction "to throw the baby out with the bathwater" to borrow a phrase. If one waits for the "perfect" law nothing will happen. Or am I wrong? It takes a long time to effect a change in centuries old cultural practices, and policy makers have to begin somewhere. If we look at the Western trend of more unmarried girls becoming pregnant at younger ages, we are again looking at a social ill, with many of the same dangers to health and safety of mothers and children, and the same costs to society. In the case of the West the causes are different and come from a loosening of traditional morals. But here too the answer is not to seek perfect laws, but to begin the policy making process and take one step at a time, correcting mistakes as one goes.

I have been described by another forum member as having a annoying case of annoying American optimism. I plead guilty. The universe is continually remaking itself. In a way creation itself is an optimistic concept. Why cannot humans re-invent their humanity as they become more conscious of persistent problems?

As I said, I will respond in more depth in a couple of days.Thanks

 

[rajneesh madhok]

Honourable Dr. Narayanjot Kaurji,
Regards,
I am sorry that you took the matter seriously. I beg pardon if I hurt your feelings. Hardly matters if one is being addressed with this or that name. Hardly matters, in day to day life we used to address even our children by other child’s name not intentionally but by chance The lapse of attention hardly matters. I always admire your writings and are confident on your mastery and fruitful solution to the problem. I shall be indebted to you for providing immense knowledge to the members.
Really Madam there are flaws in law. The laws should be amended. But it will take years to get amended. The point that your considered about flaws in law “Inherent wickedness of parties concerned”. Really this is the reason for non applicability of the laws. Due to cumbersome laws the corruption has been spreading like anything. We keep on making comments, arguments on the subject but the application of the law is very difficult due to so many loop holes in the system.
Yes Madam due to the imperfect applications of law the general public is deprived of the justice. The legislature, parliamentarian and the courts those are for the help of common man are not doing their jobs seriously so the common man is deprived of justice.
Madam I “put the ball” in your court to get knowledge from your vast experience, my purpose was to gain knowledge as you are capable to provide fruitful solution. We the people connected with Public issues can raise our voice on different platforms. Your phrase “to throw the baby out with the bathwater” is quite appealing. Now the point is that the applicability of the law is not there due to so many flaws. Yeah it will take too much time to change the mentality of the public and the customs of the centuries old practices will not be changed in a day or two. The western and Eastern trend of getting unmarried girls pregnant at tender age is a social evil and this should be eradicated with the help of NGOs by conducting seminars and for the benefit of the mothers and children as our coming generation will have to pay the price if we could not check this menace. We should work hard to uplift the morale of the young children and should guide them to refrain from the ill effects of developing unsafe sexual relations. But how we can be successful in achieving our goal. As in India the topic is considered prohibited and we can not raise our voice with regard to this topic at any platform.
Madam, you have described that due to another member of the forum and the points of American optimism you replied so. I plead for pointing out. My purpose to point out the matter is not to get apology, I am really very sorry and beg pardon for hurting your feelings. I admire your topics and your optimistic approach. Your solutions to the persistent problems are quite notable.

Amar Singh's Official Blog | Thakuramarsingh.com | Amar Singh Blog | Amar Singh News | Amar Singh Opinions
Kindly go through the above mentioned details on the same topic by Mr. Amar Singh.
When Ruchika Girhotra was assaulted by then Haryana police IG S.P.S. Rathore in Panchkula in 1990, we all were shocked. But that isn’t where this horrid tale ended! The innocent girl committed suicide 3 years later. Dear Ruchika’s life shouldn’t have ended like this. Now, 19 years later, the man responsible walks out of the court with a smile on his face and promising an appeal. Is this justice? Does Rathore only warrant “six months of rigorous imprisonment and a 1000-rupee fine” for destroying the life of an innocent girl and her family?
It has taken almost two decades for the Indian judicial system to produce a sentence for this criminal and the sentence has been announced based on Rathore’s old age rather than the fact that the girl was a minor. Rathore has all these years not only enjoyed elite government positions but has also been getting regular promotions. He was even made the director general of police in Haryana. Is it now time for the government at the center to look closely at the judicial system and make amends? 19 years later and still without justice, Ruchika Girhotra lost her life to a system not prepared to help her. How can we expect anyone else to believe in the system when we ourselves can’t trust it with our own problems?
As far as women empowerment is concerned, today India is leading the world with so many women holding top positions such as president of India, leader of the ruling political party, leader of opposition in Lok Sabha, and speaker of Lok Sabha. But these symbols of women empowerment need to ensure that women at the lowest level should also get their due share. I am the father of two growing up girls and can very well understand the ordeal that family members of Ruchika and Aarushi would have gone through. Ruchika and Aarushi are few cases which have come into light but there are 1000s of cases which go un-noticed. Only going for candle light processions and writing on a Blog is not going to be the solution we’re looking for, rather the problem has to be addressed at the depth of our social fabric. More stringent laws have to be made to ensure that such offenders don’t get away easily and punishments should work as warning to future potential offenders. We must get this message to these vile, criminal people.
Rajneesh Madhok

 

[spnadmin]

rajneesh ji

I bow to you, for your immense awareness of the problems that stalk the downtrodden, your intense sincerity and compassion, and your friendship. No apologies are needed. Really, the mistakes were mine.

 

[rajneesh madhok]

Namo Namo Durge Sukh Karani,
Namo Namo ambe Dukh harani,

I bow to You O Goddess Durga, the bestower of happinees!
I bow to You O Goddess Amba, who ends all miseries,

Rajneesh

 

[spnadmin]

rajneesh ji

:blinkingkaur: My energy will never equal that of Durga, nor my patience with humans equal that of Amba, but every day I take stock and I promise to try harder. You have made a great point

Yeah it will take too much time to change the mentality of the public and the customs of the centuries old practices will not be changed in a day or two. The western and Eastern trend of getting unmarried girls pregnant at tender age is a social evil and this should be eradicated with the help of NGOs by conducting seminars and for the benefit of the mothers and children as our coming generation will have to pay the price if we could not check this menace. We should work hard to uplift the morale of the young children and should guide them to refrain from the ill effects of developing unsafe sexual relations. But how we can be successful in achieving our goal.

and another great point

As far as women empowerment is concerned, today India is leading the world with so many women holding top positions such as president of India, leader of the ruling political party, leader of opposition in Lok Sabha, and speaker of Lok Sabha. But these symbols of women empowerment need to ensure that women at the lowest level should also get their due share. I am the father of two growing up girls and can very well understand the ordeal that family members of Ruchika and Aarushi would have gone through. Ruchika and Aarushi are few cases which have come into light but there are 1000s of cases which go un-noticed. Only going for candle light processions and writing on a Blog is not going to be the solution we’re looking for, rather the problem has to be addressed at the depth of our social fabric. More stringent laws have to be made to ensure that such offenders don’t get away easily and punishments should work as warning to future potential offenders. We must get this message to these vile, criminal people.