Deras And Guru

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

I don't know why I am posting this. But I have this idea of how things were. I want this idea to remain, even though I know we will never be able to go back there again. Time and again we have come to know of news of Deras having Guru Granth Sahib like a book, no one following Maryada while reading and keeping Guru Granth Sahib.

Earlier it was not very easy to obtain a copy of the Guru Sahib. And only devout Sikhs could take care of it. I think it is important to make availability of swaroop more tough. First it should be verified that the request has come from Gursikh family. If there is anything fishy known about them, request should be declined. When Swaroop is ready, someone from SGPC should personally go and see where Guru Sahib will be seated and where they will rest at night for Sukhasan. If there is not adequate arrangements for accommodation of Guru, transfer will not take place. He will have to give a talk end to end describing all the duties to the people involved.

Even after this is done, once every month, someone will have to make surprise checks. I know this is very hard to implement. And it would take longer to get Swaroop. But when something is freely available, its value in eyes of people goes down. It is like selling Indian flag on roadside for 5 rupees, people don't respect it then. Making Guru Sahib's swaroop easily available and not instructing or watching people who keep it is brings disrespect to Him and Baani.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Kanwaljit.Singh ji this is a totally absurd idea let me say why,

• The Problem comes from people's heart and their mind, there is no guard available for that
• People could not even protect Indira Gandhi or Rajiv Gandhi or John F. Kennedy or Martin Luther King or Lord Mountbatten and many more,
  • You cannot protect anything against evil hearts!
• Say you were to hold classes free for these people in India, I wonder how many will show up from Beas, Patiala, Sirsa, nirankaris internationally, etc. etc.lol

• Education in a positive way is the only answer!

Sat Sri Akal

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Nope you are getting the idea a bit wrong. It is not about teaching people gone wrong (that's a different approach and its effective as our Gurus could do it easily). I am saying we should not let Guru Granth Sahib end up in another dera. We have to see where the swaroop is kept. Guru Sahib is not a publication which can be procured by anyone. Having presence of Guru in their home requires high standard of Sewa and dedication.

 

[Ambarsaria]

Nope you are getting the idea a bit wrong. It is not about teaching people gone wrong (that's a different approach and its effective as our Gurus could do it easily). I am saying we should not let Guru Granth Sahib end up in another dera. We have to see where the swaroop is kept. Guru Sahib is not a publication which can be procured by anyone. Having presence of Guru in their home requires high standard of Sewa and dedication.

Kanwaljit.Singh ji anyone can print a copy of the Internet. They don't need anyone's permission. I am pretty familiar with traditional supply but Genie is out of the bottle. Don't try to put it back in the bottle with your proposal!

For me desecration with intent of Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji or parts thereof is bad regardless of the source of the copy of the material and how it is acquired.

Sorry, I will let the thread develop further as it may.

I will not agree with your proposal as no more than creating trouble in an already troubled Sikh lost kingdom.

People cannot even solve Sikh genocide and murders and you think there will be resources available for your SGGS police force. It can be made into a great Political deceptive strategy to get elected though!

Sat Sri Akal.

 

[Deven]

What is in the book is more important than how you handle it. Do you read it? Do you understand it? Do you implement it (or disagree)? There are guidelines in the book for implementing. What is the use of keeping very respectfully, your doctors prescription on an alter, and worshiping it, if you will not file it with the chemist for obtaining the medicine and imbibing it?

 

[Seeker9]

I think I am right in saying that the Shabad cannot be harmed or destroyed so surely that is what matters most?

Off course Guru commands respect but reality is that now in the 21st Century, it is very easy to acquire ones' one copy of SGGS be that physical or electronic

One likes to think anyone who desecrates with intent will receive their just rewards...

The following thread may be of interest:
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/hard-talk/34492-copies-guru-granth-sahib-being-disrespected.html

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

When GURU ARJUN JI SAHIB had just ONE Master Copy of the Pothi Sahib prepared by Bhai Gurdass Jis help in scribing it..on the way to the BINDERS...a SECOND UNAUTHORISED COPY was made by bhai Banno..the person entrusted with the BINDING !!!

What was Guru Jis REACTION ?? Go red in the face and BURN the unauthorised verison ?? EXCOMMUNICATE Bhai Banno ?? Get the sikhs to beat up the offender ??

NO such thing...........Guru Ji just said..Bhai Banno..you have added unauthorised additions to your bir...its NOW "salty" due to those additions compared to the PURE AMRIT NECTAR of GURBANI in the Original Bir. You may keep your salty bir as it is...

Guru Ji made no such orders as to how Bhai banno kept his bir..where he parkash it or where he sukhasan it...Guur Teg Bahadur jis time..and in Guru Gobind Singh jis time hundreds of Birs had been COPIED from COPIES...the Kartarpuri Bir which was CONFISCATED by the Jehnagir Govt as the Maal asbaab of Guru arjun ji on his martyrdom and given to his elder brother Prithi Chand is still in the possession of his descendants and its NOT SIKH PROPERTY till TODAY but PRIVATE PROPERTY !!

Such MAN MADE RULES of EGO MANAGEMENT can only exist in an environemnt that exists TODAY ...where FOKUT Karam Kaands, Fake RITUALISED type of Satikaar and So called satikaar Comitees (actually lathi-maar squads ) that go around enforcing their own man Made rules on others not politically inclined towards them and their kind.

I ma SAD all these FOKUT Satikaar Comittees made not a SINGLE ATTEMPT to STOP certain vested interests who actively HUNTED DOWN and DESTROYED HUNDREDS of Handwritten Birs of SGGS. ALL these Ancient Manuscripts were DESTROYED as OLD BIRS...not worthy of PRESERVATION. WHICH NATION destoys its HERITAGE like that ?? THOUSANDS of such old birs were sought out form Villages and Gurdwaras all over the WORLD and brought back to PUNJAB to be CREMATED.

All the satikaar commitees only bother about how perople keep the new printed sroops ?? and IF you BUY from their Group..then its all OK..but if you buy forom a RIVAL then all hell breaks lose...

No one followed Guru Nanak ji to ensure that Bhai Lalo jis house was clean ?? His water was in a clean glass ?? His tava chounkah etc was clean ?? Was a squad of ladies preceeding Guru nanak ji sweeping the roads to make sure no dust flew...was water being sprinkled before Guru nanak ji walking ?? Was GURU NANAK JI nay LESSER a GURU or any lesser respected becasue NO SUCH FOKUT Karaam kaands were enacted on the way to Bahi lalos house ?? Why do we descend to even SPRINKLING WATER RIGHT ON THE EXPENSIVE CARPETS INSIDE THE DARBAR SAHIB when a swaree of SGGS is taken out of the sukashan room ?? ALL the way from the door of the sukhasan room..inside the darbar..along the corridors of Gurdwars, down the steps..etc etc a sevadaar precedes SGGS swaree sprinkling WATER !!! Even in the PRESENCE of other SGGS Parkash as the GURU..???? wtaer is sprinkled for the closed bir being transported in or out ?? Dont the PARKASH GURU sahib also need this "dust control " ??..and why not an AUTOMATIC SPRINKLER SYSTEM IN the darbar sahib ??

GENUINE SATIKAAR is from the HEART when we DECIDE that we will GIVE our HEAD rather than DISOBEY the TEACHINGS of our GURU !!!!

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

LISTEN to Babbu Manns song..EK baba nanak si jisneh turkeh duniah gahtee !!!
You will find many many sabaks ( apart form the way the modern babas went up in flames at its laal batees....to the ORDINAY SIKH too the song has many lessons in HOW GENUINE SATIKAAR is given to the BABA NANAK JYOT in SGGS....TODAY we are so Chock full of EGO that we PROUDLY DECLARE....IF I dont come...HOW CAN BABA JI COME ?? He cnat WALK..He cnat even wake up by Himself....He has to DEPEND ON ME to wrap Him up in Rumallhs..carry HIM on MY HEAD...sit with HIM on mY LAP in the car..and CARRY HIM OUT !!! and Parkash HIM..sukhasan HIM...what can HE DO on HIS OWN ?? This is the Mount Everest HEIGHT of OUR EGO TODAY !!!

The other day I was present when a friend was on the phone to a Ragi jatha/cum granthi discussing baout a Sukhmani Sahib reaidng programme at his house the coming sunday. After confirming the time and date etc and which Ragi Jatha would be coming..the friend asked..ate SGGS di Bir ?? and the ANSWER of the Ragi/Granthi was as I have written in the above Paragraph !! ...Baba ji..NU MEIN HEE LIAVAANGAH..uh aapeh taan nahi turkeh aunn laggeh !!..........AND of course when on the sunday morning..BABA JI was "indeed being brought along on his head".....the POMPOUS RAGI had the Usual WATER SPRINKLER..and CHAUR SHAKER and the ROAD SWEEPING SQUAD.....BUT I KNEW exactly what REAL SATIKAAR the entire GROUP had in their HEARTS vis a vis the GURU on his head who ..couldnt even get up without assistance....All of US also KNOW all this..BUT we are in DENIAL !!!:interestedsingh:

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

What was Guru Jis REACTION ?? Go red in the face and BURN the unauthorised verison ?? EXCOMMUNICATE Bhai Banno ?? Get the sikhs to beat up the offender ??

Where in my post have I suggested such a solution?

given to his elder brother Prithi Chand is still in the possession of his descendants and its NOT SIKH PROPERTY till TODAY but PRIVATE PROPERTY !!

This highlights my point.

ALL these Ancient Manuscripts were DESTROYED as OLD BIRS

This is something which still happens in many places. I saw one such program in Hyderabad and it was sad to see no one making an effort to save all the Birs and literature.

No one followed Guru Nanak ji to ensure that Bhai Lalo jis house was clean

I am sure Bhai Lalo ji himself made efforts to make place as comfortable as possible for Guru.

a sevadaar precedes Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji swaree sprinkling WATER !!!

Hmm until I can't come up with some reason behind it, I will not call it Gurmat.

LISTEN to Babbu Manns song..EK baba nanak si jisneh turkeh duniah gahtee !!!

That song is the biggest example of a Patit doing preaching, something which you yourself dislike.

The only example that is on my mind is of Guru Arjan Sahib who Himself slept on floor and kept the Bir on a proper bed. This shows the amount of respect he gave to Gurbani and Prakash of Granth Sahib.

Have to leave. More later.

Waheguru ji ka Khalsa, Waheguru ji ki Fateh ji

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

IF I dont come...HOW CAN BABA JI COME ?? He cnat WALK..He cnat even wake up by Himself...

Lol, trust me this is the first time I have come across Sikh who has done sewa of Bir Sahib making such comments.

BUT I KNEW exactly what REAL SATIKAAR the entire GROUP had in their HEARTS vis a vis the GURU on his head who ..couldnt even get up without assistance....All of US also KNOW all this..BUT we are in DENIAL

The whole aim of my post is this only. We are diluting the respect we give to Guru Granth Sahib within. I have heard of people who have Bir with them but it is being kept away in a trunk. At that time our group wished if we had the Bir we could do Sewa daily. All I say is that we should get the bir away from their clutches.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

How about envisaging future 'Sikhs' who would know no Punjabi, never be able to read Gurmukhi, but may have absorbed with reverence the wisdom of the Granth Sahib from its English, German or Dutch translations?

They will learn from the wisdom of translations, not Gurbani.

even its punjabi-ness, what to speak of outer symbolisms like the five Ks.

For you they may be symbols, they are LIFE for me.