Re: Sant Baba Jarnail Singh Ji Khalsa Bhindranwale- TRUE SAINT SOLDIER
Dear Jatinder
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate you taking the time.
Sorry to hear that you find it mentally painful. Were you and/or your family touched by those times personally in some way?
I will continue to do some more research. At present on internet I only seem to easily find sikh sites which appear to me to rather paint only a rosy picture and partial picture. But I am reading them anyway 
You said you were wondering
"...what is your intent?"
Good question.
My intent is NOT to stir up controversy, though regrettably that seems inevitable where stong views are held for andf against Jarnail Singh. It is to ask anyone reading this thread to question and possibly correct what I see as a misleading and dangerous presentation of a 'role-model' to future sikhs.
We each of us are responsible for the purity of transmission of that which we learned and which we profess to hold dear and to follow.
E.g. that which I regard as the 'core' of Sikhi is the 'teachings' and 'examples' of the Gurus.
I am trying to say that we are ALL responsible for how that is preserved and that it is passed on to the following generations as accurately as possible.
What I am talking about as the 'core' of Sikhi are things like:
1. When Guru Amar Das after being kicked off the dais at Goindwal by Datu apologising to Datu saying "I am old. My bones are hard. You may have been hurt".
That for me is an example of pure sikhism in practice.
2. "Did your God ask you to tyrannise over others?
Fie on your regard for God and religion!
Hear me, do not employ your sword
to murder the innocent, for the God on high
would for sure punish you.
Fear God therefore,
who is the Master of the Earth and the Heaven
and whose vengeances is terrible,
who fears no-one and is the protector for ever of the poor.
...Life is but for a brief few moments.
Change is the law of life.
Whoever comes here also must quit the scene.
So whatever one's strength,
one must not annoy the weak
or else one destroys one's own roots."
Guru Gobind Singh writing to Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb.
Even then the Guru wrote: "If even now you repent and come to see me...you shall not be harmed. I wish I could speak to you face to face."
Guru Gobind Singh fought to 'defend' his followers and to protect the weak. He didn't wage war to spread his own teachings nor to suppress the teachings of others.
Guru Tegh Bahadur even died in the cause of protecting the religions of others (not his own) from persecution and discrimination/oppression.
That for me is real 'religion' in action.
How is it OK then for anyone who claims to follow the gurus,
to kill their critics and enemies in the name of their religion or for any other justification?
So what if any other group disrespects OUR beliefs? That will be between them and God.
Our responsibility is our OWN conduct and behaviour and it is only for that that WE will be helf accountable. Are WE true to the ideals and example set before us by the Gurus or not?
...He was against Nirankari for very good reasons...
Maybe so. But in what way does that justify attacking them?
Jarnail said before an agitated sikh congregation Manji Sahib:
"We will not allow the Nirankari convention to be held here. We shall march to cut them to pieces."
That was recorded in the book 'Amritsar' by BBC correspondents Satish Jacob and Mark Tully.
You mention the twelve sikhs that were killed in the disturbance initiated by the sikh mob but not the three Nirankaris???
That whole episode for me demonstrates where 'religion' (which I understood was all about 'union' with that Divinity which ALL humanity share and of which we are ALL heirs) is used to DIVIDE and not 'unite'.
What can be said of a 'religion' practised so that it creates dissension and disagreement and kills brotherly love and mutual respect? I have always understood that the teachings of Guru Nanak and his successors was to eliminate caste and creed distinctions. "Nae ko hindu, nae mussalman". .i.e. we could say today 'no christian, no buddhist, nor jew, nor Dharamdasi, nor Nirankari, nor Nihang, nor Radhaswami, nor AryaSamaji, nor Keshdhari, Nor Sehajdhari, nor Namdhari or whatever!
God created man. Man created religions. Great men like Guru Nanak tried to lead us out of sectarian viewpoints and to awaken us to a sense of 'universal brotherhood'.
Jarnail Singh for all his great qualities of leadership and oratory and, etc., etc. was the antithesis of this.
That is why it disturbs me to see only half the picture of him being presented.
It goes against the basis of sikhi to believe that it is not only OK but laudable to persecute and even execute those who do not share the same beliefs as you, or those who criticise you, as Bhindranwalee did.
I am really astonished that you just noted this line fo his and nothing else around this topic.
("It comes to 35, not even 100. Divide fifty-five crores, then each sikh gets only 35 hindus, and not even 36th. How do you say you are weak?")
I posted only that line as it demonstrated my point. The twenty minutes on other topics does not in my opinion justify this anti-hindu, incitement-to-violence one even if of only ten seconds duration.
but for sure he was great man in my perspective and much much more spirtual being than myself and my research has been unable to find him in a bad light...
No doubt he loved his religion, ...but so did Aurangzeb.
No doubt he was a charismatic leader and great orator, but so was Hitler.
No doubt he was brave and fearless. But so was Babur. etc., etc.
That is NOT to compare him to those figures or say he was of similar type. Just to show that enumerating a persons 'good' qualities DOES NOT justify or excuse there bad ones.
We have to admit that if the worst be believed he ordered many murders. If the best be believed then he never publically (to my knowledge) spoke out against the gangs killing in his name and allowed the general public to believe they were done at his behest to enhance his power and inculcate a sense of fear in his detractors and those opposed to his movement.
And fully agree with Vijaydeep that it is not wise to highlight such aspects of various factions fo sikhs whether in past and present and we all should look forward to move ahead together for brighter future of panth.
Agreed also. But maybe the remedy would be that a post lauding Jarnail Singh as as Sant, Shaheed and epitome of Gurus sikhs should be taken down. Then this kind of controversial thread would not occur. :-(
Best wishes
MBW
