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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Randip Singh" data-source="post: 50506" data-attributes="member: 1323">Well I thought your extensive "research " would have recognised the fact that there was no Gold on Harmandir Sahib during the time of the Guru's.   That is your opinion. Why are you forcing your opinion on everyone else? What we are saying is eating meat and not eating meat has nothing to do with Bani. How do you know that the Guru's did not eat meat. Show me proof? Were your there? Do you know exactly what they ate? What relevance is that of anyway, the Guru's were of such a heightened spiritual state it would not matter in anycase.  Precisely….so why again are you claiming to know the mysteries of spirituality?  Nobody is asking you to swallow anything and if you read the posts above I have demonstrated clearly how I disagree from your "research". Please cut out the weasel words, you are doing it again. Describing people who don't follow the Ekh Musafir line are not "fools" or "sheep". One thing I would agree is do unbiased research, and not one based on a Sant-Mat premise. Regards. PS For some unknown reason my replies either keep getting held in a queue or apearing much later......I have reposted:  Ok lets take a look at what the essay says:  I don't think anything contentious has been said here. Pritam Singh Chahil's translation I think refers to Muder as Carrion.  You are incorrect -  <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਅੰਧੀ" target="_blank">ਅੰਧੀ</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਰਯਤਿ" target="_blank">ਰਯਤਿ</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਗਿਆਨ" target="_blank">ਗਿਆਨ</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਵਿਹੂਣੀ" target="_blank">ਵਿਹੂਣੀ</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਭਾਹਿ" target="_blank">ਭਾਹਿ</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਭਰੇ" target="_blank">ਭਰੇ</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.dictionary?Param=ਮੁਰਦਾਰੁ" target="_blank">ਮੁਰਦਾਰੁ</a>॥अंधीरयतिगिआनविहूणीभाहिभरेमुरदारु॥anDhee rayat gi-aan vihoonee bhaahi bharay murdaar. Their subjects are blind, and without wisdom, they try to please the will of the dead. again refers to the dead. They may also be refered to as carrion.  It makes no difference to the meaning of the ang.In anycase (I may be wrong) I though Khaaj was something uneatable or forbidden?  Not at all. Ifpeople are behaving like dogs as this shabad states then their favourite past time is to eat dead bodies...........just like how some people behave when they want grab the rights of another person.A clear metaphor.In Bani....look how many times the metaphor for dogs is used: <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=21&english=t&id=885#l885" target="_blank">Page 21, Line 11</a>ਕੂਕਰਕੂੜੁਕਮਾਈਐਗੁਰਨਿੰਦਾਪਚੈਪਚਾਨੁ॥कूकरकूड़ुकमाईऐगुरनिंदापचैपचानु॥kookar koorh kamaa-ee-ai gur nindaa pachai pachaan.Those who practice falsehood are dogs; those who slander the Guru shall burn in their own fire.Guru Nanak Dev - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=21&L=11&id=885" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=24&english=t&id=1004#l1004" target="_blank">Page 24, Line 13</a>ਏਕੁਸੁਆਨੁਦੁਇਸੁਆਨੀਨਾਲਿ॥एकुसुआनुदुइसुआनीनालि॥ayk su-aan du-ay su-aanee naal.The dogs of greed are with me.Guru Nanak Dev - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=24&L=13&id=1004" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=332&english=t&id=15246#l15246" target="_blank">Page 332, Line 11</a>ਪਿਤਰਭੀਬਪੁਰੇਕਹੁਕਿਉਪਾਵਹਿਕਊਆਕੂਕਰਖਾਹੀ॥੧॥पितरभीबपुरेकहुकिउपावहिकऊआकूकरखाही॥१॥pitar bhee bapuray kaho ki-o paavahi ka-oo-aa kookar khaahee. ||1||Tell me, how can his poor ancestors receive what the crows and the dogs have eaten up? ||1||Devotee Kabir - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=332&L=11&id=15246" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=350&english=t&id=16014#l16014" target="_blank">Page 350, Line 3</a>ਕਰਣੀਕੁਤਾਦਰਿਫੁਰਮਾਨੁ॥करणीकुतादरिफुरमानु॥karnee kutaa dar furmaan.by their deeds they are dogs - this is the Command of the Lord's Court.Guru Nanak Dev - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=350&L=3&id=16014" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=360&english=t&id=16514#l16514" target="_blank">Page 360, Line 14</a>ਰਤਨਵਿਗਾੜਿਵਿਗੋਏਕੁਤਂ*ੀਮੁਇਆਸਾਰਨਕਾਈ॥रतनविगाड़िविगोएकुतींमुइआसारनकाई॥ratan vigaarh vigo-ay kuteeN mu-i-aa saar na kaa-ee.This priceless country has been laid waste and defiled by dogs, and no one pays any attention to the dead.Guru Nanak Dev - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=360&L=14&id=16514" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=372&english=t&id=17093#l17093" target="_blank">Page 372, Line 15</a>ਅੰਤਰਿਲੋਭੁਫਿਰਹਿਹਲਕਾਏ॥अंतरिलोभुफिरहिहलकाए॥antar lobh fireh halkaa-ay.Within them is greed, and they wander around like mad dogs.Guru Arjan Dev - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=372&L=15&id=17093" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=493&english=t&id=22230#l22230" target="_blank">Page 493, Line 8</a>ਸੇਕੂਕਰਸੂਕਰਗਰਧਭਪਵਹਿਗਰਭਜੋਨੀਦਯਿਮਾਰੇਮਹਾਹਤਿਆਰੇ॥੩॥सेकूकरसूकरगरधभपवहिगरभजोनीदयिमारेमहाहतिआरे॥३॥say kookar sookar garDhabh paveh garabh jonee da-yi maaray mahaa hati-aaray. ||3||They are like dogs, pigs and jackasses; they are cast into the womb of reincarnation, and the Lord strikes them down as the worst of murderers. ||3||Guru Ram Das - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=493&L=8&id=22230" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=609&english=t&id=26546#l26546" target="_blank">Page 609, Line 11</a>ਤੀਨਿਸੰਙਿਆਕਰਿਦੇਹੀਕੀਨੀਜਲਕੂਕਰਭਸਮੇਹੀ॥तीनिसंङिआकरिदेहीकीनीजलकूकरभसमेही॥teen sanyi-aa kar dayhee keenee jal kookar bhasmayhee.There are three ways in which the body can be consumed - it can be thrown into water, given to the dogs, or cremated to ashes.Guru Arjan Dev - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=609&L=11&id=26546" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=648&english=t&id=28182#l28182" target="_blank">Page 648, Line 12</a>ਇਕਦਝਹਿਇਕਦਬੀਅਹਿਇਕਨਾਕੁਤੇਖਾਹਿ॥इकदझहिइकदबीअहिइकनाकुतेखाहि॥ik dajheh ik dabee-ah iknaa kutay khaahi.Some are cremated, and some are buried; some are eaten by dogs.Guru Nanak Dev - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=648&L=12&id=28182" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=692&english=t&id=29965#l29965" target="_blank">Page 692, Line 14</a>ਸੂਕਰਕੂਕਰਜੋਨਿਭ੍ਰਮੇਤਊਲਾਜਨਆਈ॥सूकरकूकरजोनिभ्रमेतऊलाजनआई॥sookar kookar jon bharamay ta-oo laaj na aa-ee.You have wandered in reincarnation, as pigs and dogs - did you feel no shame?Devotee Kabir - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=692&L=14&id=29965" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=795&english=t&id=33962#l33962" target="_blank">Page 795, Line 7</a>ਏਤੇਕੂਕਰਹਉਬੇਗਾਨਾਭਉਕਾਇਸੁਤਨਤਾਈ॥एतेकूकरहउबेगानाभउकाइसुतनताई॥aytay kookar ha-o baygaanaa bha-ukaa is tan taa-ee.Among so many dogs, I am an outcast; I bark for my body's belly.Guru Nanak Dev - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=795&L=7&id=33962" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=983&english=t&id=42148#l42148" target="_blank">Page 983, Line 17</a>ਲੋਭਲਹਰਿਸਭੁਸੁਆਨੁਹਲਕੁਹੈਹਲਕਿਓਸਭਹਿਬਿਗਾਰੇ॥लोभलहरिसभुसुआनुहलकुहैहलकिओसभहिबिगारे॥lobh lahar sabh su-aan halak hai halki-o sabheh bigaaray.The waves of greed are like mad dogs with rabies. Their madness ruins everything.Guru Ram Das - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=983&L=17&id=42148" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1029&english=t&id=44027#l44027" target="_blank">Page 1029, Line 17</a>ਕੂਕਰਸੂਕਰਕਹੀਅਹਿਕੂੜਿਆਰਾ॥कूकरसूकरकहीअहिकूड़िआरा॥kookar sookar kahee-ahi koorhi-aaraa.The false are called pigs and dogs.Guru Nanak Dev - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=1029&L=17&id=44027" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1124&english=t&id=48136#l48136" target="_blank">Page 1124, Line 16</a>ਸੁਆਨਸਤ੍ਰੁਅਜਾਤੁਸਭਤੇਕ੍ਰਿਸ੍ਨਲਾਵੈਹੇਤੁ॥सुआनसत्रुअजातुसभतेक्रिस्नलावैहेतु॥su-aan satar ajaat sabh tay krisan laavai hayt.The killer of dogs, the lowest of all, was lovingly embraced by Krishna.Devotee Ravidas - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=1124&L=16&id=48136" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1160&english=t&id=49892#l49892" target="_blank">Page 1160, Line 16</a>ਸੁਆਨਸਿਆਲਮਾਇਆਮਹਿਰਾਤਾ॥सुआनसिआलमाइआमहिराता॥su-aan si-aal maa-i-aa meh raataa.Dogs and jackals are imbued with Maya.Devotee Kabir - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=1160&L=16&id=49892" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1242&english=t&id=53443#l53443" target="_blank">Page 1242, Line 18</a>ਕਲਿਹੋਈਕੁਤੇਮੁਹੀਖਾਜੁਹੋਆਮੁਰਦਾਰੁ॥कलिहोईकुतेमुहीखाजुहोआमुरदारु॥kal ho-ee kutay muhee khaaj ho-aa murdaar.In this Dark Age of Kali Yuga, people have faces like dogs; they eat rotting carcasses for food.Guru Nanak Dev - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=1242&L=18&id=53443" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1288&english=t&id=55324#l55324" target="_blank">Page 1288, Line 7</a>ਰਾਜੇਸੀਹਮੁਕਦਮਕੁਤੇ॥राजेसीहमुकदमकुते॥raajay seeh mukdam kutay.The kings are tigers, and their officials are dogs;Guru Nanak Dev - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=1288&L=7&id=55324" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1288&english=t&id=55327#l55327" target="_blank">Page 1288, Line 8</a>ਰਤੁਪਿਤੁਕੁਤਿਹੋਚਟਿਜਾਹੁ॥रतुपितुकुतिहोचटिजाहु॥rat pit kutiho chat jaahu.The dogs lick up the blood that is spilled.Guru Nanak Dev - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=1288&L=8&id=55327" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1311&english=t&id=56193#l56193" target="_blank">Page 1311, Line 17</a>ਲੋਭਲਹਰਿਸੁਆਨਕੀਸੰਗਤਿਬਿਖੁਮਾਇਆਕਰੰਗਿਲਗਾਵੈਗੋ॥੭॥लोभलहरिसुआनकीसंगतिबिखुमाइआकरंगिलगावैगो॥७॥lobh lahar su-aan kee sangat bikh maa-i-aa karang lagaavaigo. ||7||The waves of greed are like packs of dogs. The poison of Maya sticks to the body-skeleton. ||7||Guru Ram Das - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=1311&L=17&id=56193" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1359&english=t&id=58056#l58056" target="_blank">Page 1359, Line 8</a>ਉਦਿਆਨਬਸਨੰਸੰਸਾਰੰਸਨਬੰਧੀਸ੍ਵਾਨਸਿਆਲਖਰਹ॥उदिआनबसनंसंसारंसनबंधीस्वानसिआलखरह॥udi-aan basanaN saNsaaraN sanbanDhee savaan si-aal kharah.Living in the world, it is like a wild jungle. One's relatives are like dogs, jackals and donkeys.Guru Arjan Dev - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=1359&L=8&id=58056" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a><a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1413&english=t&id=59972#l59972" target="_blank">Page 1413, Line 9</a>ਮਨਮੁਖਬੰਨ੍ਹ੍ਹਿਚਲਾਈਅਹਿਨਾਮਿਲਹੀਵਗਿਸਗਿ॥मनमुखबंन्हिचलाईअहिनामिलहीवगिसगि॥manmukh baneh chalaa-ee-ah naa milhee vag sag.The self-willed manmukhs are bound and gagged and led away; the dogs do not join the herd of cows.Guru Amar Das - <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=1413&L=9&id=59972" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a>   These lines confirm that Guruji is talking about the deceitful behaviour of people and has nothing to do with meat eating.    Point 1 - I edited this essay, some are my contributions. It is the collection of works by several Gursikhs, vegetarian and non-vegetarian. All have elected to stay nameless. Some portions have been borrowed from Sradar Sandeep Singh's <a href="http://www.sikhs.org/" target="_blank">The Sikhism Home Page</a>. Point 2 - The essay is pointing out that to view this verse merely as a comment on eating behaviour is akin to some sort of Sharia Law. Bani is higher than that. Point 3 - It clearly an concisely points out the metaphor behind this shabad because it says "people like" etc. Sources - Pritam Singh Chahil (Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji). Dr Kulbir Thind  In case people do not know who Nirmala's are:  The members of the sect are called Nirmala Sikhs or simply Nirmalas. The sect arose during the time of Guru Gobind Singh (1666-1708). Guru wanted his followers not only to train in soldierly arts but also to have interests in letters. He had engaged a number of scholars to translate Sanskrit classics into Punjabi, in order to bring them within the easy reach of people.Guru Gobind Singh sent five of his Sikhs, namely Karam Singh, Vir Singh, Ganda Singh, Saina Singh, and Ram Singh, dressed as upper-class students, to Varanasi, the centre of Hindu learning. These Sikhs worked diligently for several years and returned to Anandpur as accomplished scholars of classical Indian theology and philosophy. In view of their piety and their sophisticated manner, they and their students came to be known as Nirmalas, and were later recognised as a separate sect.After the evacuation of Anandpur in 1705, the Nirmala preachers went to different places outside Punjab, particularly to Haridvar, Allahabad and Varanasi, where they established centres of learning that exist even today — Kankhal, near Haridwar; Pakki Sangat at Allahabad; and Chetan Math and Chhoti Sangat at Varanasi. When, during the second half of the eighteenth century, the Sikhs established their sway over the Punjab, some of the Nirmala saints came back here and founded centres at different places.It was customary for Nirmala scholars to attend, along with their disciples, religious fairs at prominent Hindu pilgrimage centres such as Haridwar, Allahabad and Gaya, where they, like other sadhus, took out shahis or processions and had philosophical debates with scholars of other religious denominations as a part of their preaching activity. During the Haridwar Kumbh in 1855, at a general meeting of the Nirmalas held in their principal dera at Kankhal, the first step was taken towards setting up a central body by electing Mahitab Singh of Rishikesh, reputed scholar of the sect, as their Sri Mahant or principal priest. This tradition is continuing and the present head in Sri Mahant Nam Dev Singh. This is one view point. In anycase, where and who made this analysis? Date, time's, author's name? In any case I have read criticism's that Nirmala's but too much of a Hindu bias in their works. Also, this still does not mean one should not eat meat. It merely means one would not cut one's own throat to eat, which takes us back to the point the essay is making. How sects twist this Shabad to mean something does not.    Again this does not mean that one form of dish is prevalent over another. Taking one sentence out of the shabad destroys the meaning of the shabad. The entire shabad reads from the article:  in addition to this the line:Kabeer: O Mullah, why do you climb to the top of the minaret? The Lord is not hard of hearing.Look within your own heart for the One, for whose sake you shout your prayers.Why does the Shaykh bother to go on pilgrimage to Mecca, if he is not content with himself? Kabeer, one whose heart is not healthy and whole - how can he attain his Lord? Kabeer, worship the Lord Allah; meditating in remembrance on Him, troubles and pains depart. The Lord shall be revealed within your own heart, and the burning fire within shall be extinguished by His Name. Kabeer, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal. When your account is called for in the Court of the Lord, what will your condition be then?Kabeer, to use force is tyranny, even if you call it legal.When your account is called for in the Court of the Lord, what will your condition be then?Kabeer, the dinner of beans and rice is excellent, if it is flavored with salt. Who would cut his throat, to have meat with his bread? The mention of Mullahs here and the fact it is directed at Mullahs shows it is not directed at hunters hunting for meat. So what is Bhagat Kabir referring too. Clues to this are easy to find when one analyses the time frame when Kabir ji lived. He lived at the time Timur?Tarmalane invaded India. He sacked Delhi killing 100, 000 innocent Hindu's. He also sacked Benares, his is an extract of his memoirs: <a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/742629/posts" target="_blank">http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/742629/posts</a>Quote: Massacre of 100,000 Hindus At this Court Amir Jahan Shah and Amir Sulaiman Shah, and other amirs of experience, brought to my notice that, from the time of entering Hindustan up to the present time, we had taken more than 100,000 infidels and Hindus prisoners, and that they were all in my camp. On the previous day, when the enemy’s forces made the attack upon us, the prisoners made signs of rejoicing, uttered imprecations against us, and were ready, as soon as they heard of the enemy’s success, to form themselves into a body, break their bonds, plunder our tents, and then to go and join the enemy, and so increase his [p. 53] numbers and strength. I asked their advice about the prisoners, and they said that on the great day of battle these 100,000 prisoners could not be left with the baggage, and that it would be entirely opposed to the rules of war to set these idolaters and foes of Islam at liberty. In fact, no other course remained but that of making them all food for the sword. When I heard these words I found them in accord with the rules of war, and I directly gave my command for the Tawachis to proclaim throughout the camp that every man who had infidel prisoners was to put them to death, and whoever neglected to do so should himself be executed and his property given to the informer. When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death. 100,000 infidels, impious idolaters, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasiru-d din ‘Umar, a counsellor and man of learning, who, in all his life, had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives.   Now bare the above in mind when reading the shabad. The Muslim invader and Mullahs, hunted these poor Hindu souls down, to steal their wealth, women and food.    This is not the meaning " meaning killing animals – causing death of" is spin added by the source. Below are many examples of where hunter is used and no mention of meat. <a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=143&english=t&id=5873#l5873" target="_blank">Page 143, Line 4</a> jamraajai nit nit manmukh hayri-aa.The King of the Angels of Death hunts down those self-willed manmukhs, over and over again.Guru Nanak Dev - <a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=143&L=4&id=5873" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a> <a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=432&english=t&id=19856#l19856" target="_blank">Page 432, Line 14</a> jam raajay kay hayroo aa-ay maa-i-aa kai sangal banDh la-i-aa. ||5||The hunters of the King of Death come, and bind him in the chains of Maya. ||5||Guru Nanak Dev - <a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=432&L=14&id=19856" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a> <a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1367&english=t&id=58373#l58373" target="_blank">Page 1367, Line 6</a> laakh ahayree ayk jee-o kaytaa bancha-o kaal. ||53||Thousands of hunters are chasing after the soul; how long can it escape death? ||53||Devotee Kabir - <a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=1367&L=6&id=58373" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a> <a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1354&english=t&id=57874#l57874" target="_blank">Page 1354, Line 8</a> marigee paykhant baDhik par-haarayn lakh-y aavDhah.Seeing the deer, the hunter aims his weapons.Guru Arjan Dev - <a href="http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/essays-on-sikhism/gurbani.gurbani?Action=KeertanPage&K=1354&L=8&id=57874" target="_blank">view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok</a>This last example specifically mentions hunting an animal by name.   Sorry, no mention of animal or meat….this is an addition by someone mistranslating.   Ok apart from one FACT. No animal or mention of meat. There is no mention of "I"……it it a question "Kaun" or "who"………the question being asked is who would cut their throat just to eat? Keeping in mind the Invasion of Timur, one ses a completely different picture emerging. "Hey Mullahs, you do all these fasts and things, yet you commit tyranny…….tell me who would cut your own throat just to hunt for food……..so why are you commiting this tyrrany on others?" or words to that effect….absolutely and nothing to do with meat eating.   Falls down on several accounts: 1) No mention of animals or meat. 2) Pleasure of the tongue is a silly argument, that would imply meat food tastes the best. The fact is that in India especially, vegetarian food tastes the best. 3) No mention of sacrifice. Sacrifice = Halaal or Bismil according to Bani. 4) We are not Hindu's, so reference to Hindu philosophy is irrelevant. No where does Sri Guru Granth Sahib ji say we should use Hinduism as a template for Sikhi. 5) Sikhism accepts there is an much life in a plant as there is in an animal or mineral, so the same could be applied to a plant.   6) Does not take into account the reference to Mullahs. 7) Breaks shabad up into a few lines:Here is another example: <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=1379&english=t&id=58827#l58827" target="_blank">Page 1379, Line 7</a>॥२८॥jinaa khaaDhee choprhee ghanay sehnigay dukh. ||28||Those who eat buttered bread, will suffer in terrible pain. ||28||Sekh Farid - Does this mean we avoid bread and butter? Of course not…….but taking one or two lines distorts the shabad. That is what has happened here.  See references of sources in the essay…….. Copies of Bani I think have been taken from Pritam Singh Chahil's translation.</blockquote>

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