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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ekmusafir_ajnabi" data-source="post: 63608" data-attributes="member: 4318">Begum ji and Dr Khalsa ji  There are still some loyal servants of our Beloved Gurus in the world who can answer back. The victory will be os "SAT". Here is a present for you and Dr Khalsa, The best critics are those who themselves are failures in that field. During the life time of our Gurus members of their own families had enmity with Guru Nanak Dev ji’s panth. Considerable anti-panthic stories have been written by several writers who have used manmat to the nth degree. Guru Nanak Dev ji say in Japji Sahib.eyvfu aUcw hovY koie ] iqsu aUcy kau jwxY soie ] The Hymns revealed through the first four Gurus were getting amalgamated and distorted by a few impostors. Guru Arjan had the ardent task to preserve the original treasure. In the second place he wanted to bestow the Panth with an ever-lasting guiding light, a physical and spiritual phenomenon. This is the reason why Aad Granth was written in a continuous prose. Our Gurus realised that their enemies were getting stronger day by day. Majority of them were from their very own families, Pandits who were were becoming the subject of embarrassement due to their weaknesses getting exposed and lastly the Hakumat of the time. Our Gurus did their best to preserve the jewel for the humanity sake. Alas they have departed physically from us but their enemies are still inflicting damage to date. Lets us look at the true message that Bhagat Kabir ji . You will notice that the salokas begin with Mehla 5. i.e. they have been edited by by Guru Arjan Dev ji. Verse 232 as a contribution from Guru ji is a answer to a question.  kbIr swDU sMgu prwpqI iliKAw hoie illwt ] mukiq pdwrQu pweIAY Twk n AvGt Gwt ]231] swDU sMgu prwpqI – obtained from the company of the saints iliKAw hoie – if it is written illwt – on the forhead mukiq pdwrQu    – gift of liberation / salvation pweIAY – to receive, to attain Twk – hinderance AvGt Gwt– difficult journey (akin to that in a mountainous area) Kabir says, one receives the gift if it is predestined (written on the forehead)One recieves Salvation and all hindrances in this otherwise difficult journey are removed.Q. How much time does one need to spend the sadhu ? kbIr eyk GVI AwDI GrI AwDI hUM qy AwD ] Bgqn syqI gosty jo kIny so lwB ]232] eyk GVI - Unit of time (we will assume here = 1 hour) AwDI GrI  - ½hour AwDI hUM qy AwD – ½ of ½hour i.e. ¼ hour Kabir ji say, Say 1 hour, say  ½ hour , ok lets say half of that half. It almost appears that Kabir ji is observing the expression of the querist and adjusting the time accordingly and finally settles on 15 minutes. Bgqn syqI – in the company of Saints gosty – communication, dialogue, accompany jo kIny – whoever does it so lwB – gains the benefit Whoever corresponds with the saint, will benefits.kbIr BWg mwCulI surw pwin jo jo pRwnI KWih ] qIrQ brq nym kIey qy sBY rswqil jWih ]233] BWg - hemp mwCulI  - fish surw pwin  - drinks wine / liquor jo jo pRwnI – whom so ever KWih - eats qIrQ  - pilgrimage brq  - fasting nym - Naam kIeyy  - having done sBY – all of them rswqil jWih  - goes to vain Whosoever consumes hemp, eats fish, drinks liquor, The benefits of visiting pilgrimages, fastings undertaken, time spent in Naam simran, all of them go to vain. In summary : In the first line Kabir ji tells us that Salvation is a predestined commodity and is bestowed on those who spend time in the company of saints. In the secon line Kabir ji tells us that even a very small unit of time is spent is beneficial. In the last vers Kabir ji is saying that those people who whilst doing the above also consumes hemp, eats fish, drinks liquor, they befits they have accrued in visiting pilgrimages, fastings undertaken, time spent in Naam simran, all of them go to vain. Now why did Kabir ji pick on hemp, eats fish, drinks liquor. Hemp is a drug. The one who consumes it will loose his mind/his ability to reason. Fish is an aphriodisiac (invites kam). Liquor is again an intoxicant. When any of these elements are mixed who are bound to indulge in bad karma. Now let us compare the above three verses with those of our Forum Lead Randip Singh Esquire Now putting this in its entire context what Bhagat Kabir is actually criticising in the rich and those in power. The thrill seekers, who are addicted to their senses and those addicted to the 5 thieves. Kabir was born around the area of Benares, and was brought up in a poor Muslim weavers family. He saw the excesses of the rich around him, while the poor starved. Foods like fish and wine were associated with the rich who had an excessive disposable income. Marijuana was associated with either idol people or those who had time and money to waste. Kabir abhorred this, and this statement is a social comment about the excesses of the rich. At the end he clearly states, that those people who do their duties as householders (i.e. work hard, care for other etc) are the ones who will be liberated, and those who live by excesses will suffer. One cantherefore clearly see that this is in no way a comment about eating meat (because of mistranslation) or about avoiding certain foods (as has been misrepresented).Now I cannot help doing :u):<img src="/images/smilies/whatsapp/wah.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":wah:" title="Wah    :wah:" data-shortname=":wah:" /><img src="/images/smilies/whatsapp/up-pointer.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":up:" title="Up Pointer    :up:" data-shortname=":up:" />.   Please feel free to join me if you wish.This is the intelligence of our present leaders. Guru ji quite aptly said “Koor phirey pardhaan ve Laalo” Sharam Hovege Tuhanu te you will quit.:down:And Begum ji I can now state this now as an answer to your question that Our beloved Gurus were Vegetarians. All Ten of them.Now who is misleading whom. Can we accept anything that Randip Singh and KDS say,  can we accept as GOSPEL. I do not and the rest of you are wise enough to make their own judgements. Wise people only need to be given a hint and they will understand.I wonder how much Hemp these guys consume. ¼ killo ?, 1/2 killo ? or was it 1 Killo? Randip Singh and KDS – I can tear your Essay into pieces but do not wish to waste my valuable time. It will have no effect on your Conscience. All I can say is Wisen up, Cast your EGO and become students of Guru ji. Do some Naam Simran. Tusi kis janam da badla Guru Sahibaan ton Le rehe ho? OMG I just feel sorry for both of you.Ekmusafir_ajnabi :hmm:</blockquote>

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