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Gurmat Vichaar
Gurmat Vichar - Discussions
Gurbani Of A Different Flavour
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<blockquote data-quote="Ishna" data-source="post: 192747" data-attributes="member: 2709"><p>I had trouble selecting a title for this thread. Words like "Dark", "Confronting", and "Direct" were in the running, but none of those go with "Gurbani", do they. Do they?</p><p></p><p>Well, just after Guru Arjun Sahib Ji's Thitee (The Lunar Days) shabad, Guru Ram Das launches into Vaar in Gauree from <a href="http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=300&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0&fb=0" target="_blank">Ang 300</a>. The Thitee shabad beforehand is the calm before the storm which is the Vaars.</p><p></p><p>So far during my sehaj paath (in English), these 17 pages have been the most confronting. It seems to place a lot of emphasis on manmukhs and slanderers. It talks about hate, and being struck down, and cursed. It seems so out of character for Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which has made mention of manmukhs and slanderers on earlier pages, but nothing like it does now.</p><p></p><p>I admit to being rather surprised by this.</p><p></p><p>What's your impression of it? Does anyone else notice a pronounced change of pace compared to other Gurbani? It's not all sweetness and light anymore.</p><p></p><p>Is there some historical context I'm missing around these shaloks and paurhis? Was Guru Ram Das Ji talking about literal slanderer's of himself, or of his Guru predecessors, or of Waheguru Itself?</p><p></p><p>Here's a snippet for you, in case you don't believe me:</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800000"><span style="color: rgb(0, 102, 204)">ਸਲੋਕ </span><span style="color: #0066cc">ਮਃ ੪ </span>॥</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Salok mėhlā 4.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128)"><span style="font-size: 12px">Shalok, Fourth Mehl:</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800000"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਸਾਕਤ ਜਾਇ ਨਿਵਹਿ ਗੁਰ ਆਗੈ ਮਨਿ ਖੋਟੇ ਕੂੜਿ ਕੂੜਿਆਰੇ </span>॥</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Sākaṯ jā▫e nivėh gur āgai man kẖote kūṛ kūṛi▫āre.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128)"><span style="font-size: 12px">The faithless cynics go and bow before the Guru, but their minds are corrupt and false, totally false.</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800000"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਜਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਹੈ ਉਠਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ਬਹਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਘੁਸਰਿ ਬਗੁਲਾਰੇ </span>॥</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Jā gur kahai uṯẖahu mere bẖā▫ī bahi jāhi gẖusar bagulāre.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128)"><span style="font-size: 12px">When the Guru says, "Rise up, my Siblings of Destiny", they sit down, crowded in like cranes.</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800000"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਵਰਤੈ ਚੁਣਿ ਕਢੇ ਲਧੋਵਾਰੇ </span>॥</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Gursikẖā anḏar saṯgur varṯai cẖuṇ kadẖe laḏẖovāre.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128)"><span style="font-size: 12px">The True Guru prevails among His GurSikhs; they pick out and expel the wanderers.</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-size: 12px"></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0)"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਓਇ </span></span><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0)"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਅਗੈ </span></span><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0)"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਪਿਛੈ </span></span><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0)"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਬਹਿ </span></span><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0)"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਮੁਹੁ </span></span><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0)"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਛਪਾਇਨਿ </span></span><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0)"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਨ </span></span><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0)"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਰਲਨੀ </span></span><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0)"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਖੋਟੇਆਰੇ </span></span><span style="color: rgb(128, 0, 0)">॥</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 12px">O▫e agai picẖẖai bahi muhu cẖẖapā▫in na ralnī kẖote▫āre.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128)"><span style="font-size: 12px">Sitting here and there, they hide their faces; being counterfeit, they cannot mix with the genuine.</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800000"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਓਨਾ ਦਾ ਭਖੁ ਸੁ ਓਥੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਾਇ ਕੂੜੁ ਲਹਨਿ ਭੇਡਾਰੇ </span>॥</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Onā ḏā bẖakẖ so othai nāhī jā▫e kūṛ lahan bẖedāre.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128)"><span style="font-size: 12px">There is no food for them there; the false go into the filth like sheep.</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800000"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਜੇ ਸਾਕਤੁ ਨਰੁ ਖਾਵਾਈਐ ਲੋਚੀਐ ਬਿਖੁ ਕਢੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਉਗਲਾਰੇ </span>॥</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Je sākaṯ nar kẖāvā▫ī▫ai locẖī▫ai bikẖ kadẖai mukẖ uglāre.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128)"><span style="font-size: 12px">If you try to feed the faithless cynic, he will spit out poison from his mouth.</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800000"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਹਰਿ ਸਾਕਤ ਸੇਤੀ ਸੰਗੁ ਨ ਕਰੀਅਹੁ ਓਇ ਮਾਰੇ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੇ </span>॥</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Har sākaṯ seṯī sang na karī▫ahu o▫e māre sirjaṇhāre.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128)"><span style="font-size: 12px">O Lord, let me not be in the company of the faithless cynic, who is cursed by the Creator Lord.</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="color: #800000"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਇਹੁ ਖੇਲੁ ਸੋਈ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਰੇ </span>॥੧॥</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Jis kā ih kẖel so▫ī kar vekẖai jan Nānak nām samāre. ||1||</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128)"><span style="font-size: 12px">This drama belongs to the Lord; He performs it, and He watches over it. Servant Nanak cherishes the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p>Oh, and one last question: Why does it finish, on ang 317, with the word 'Sudh'?</p><p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-size: 12px"><span style="font-family: 'AnmolUniPr'"><span style="color: #800000"><span style="color: #0066cc">ਜਿਉ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਉ ਰਖੁ ਤੂੰ ਸਚਿਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਨਿ ਆਸ ਤੇਰੀ ਵਡ ਵਡੇ ॥੩੩॥੧॥ ਸੁਧੁ </span>॥</span></span> </span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="font-size: 12px">Ji▫o bẖāvai ṯi▫o rakẖ ṯūʼn sacẖi▫ā Nānak man ās ṯerī vad vade. ||33||1|| suḏẖ.</span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"><span style="font-family: 'TAHOMA'"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 128)"><span style="font-size: 12px">If it pleases You, then save me, True Lord. Nanak places the hopes of his mind in You alone, O greatest of the great! ||33||1|| Sudh||</span></span></span></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p>Many thanks.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ishna, post: 192747, member: 2709"] I had trouble selecting a title for this thread. Words like "Dark", "Confronting", and "Direct" were in the running, but none of those go with "Gurbani", do they. Do they? Well, just after Guru Arjun Sahib Ji's Thitee (The Lunar Days) shabad, Guru Ram Das launches into Vaar in Gauree from [URL='http://www.srigranth.org/servlet/gurbani.gurbani?Action=Page&Param=300&g=1&h=0&r=1&t=1&p=0&k=0&fb=0']Ang 300[/URL]. The Thitee shabad beforehand is the calm before the storm which is the Vaars. So far during my sehaj paath (in English), these 17 pages have been the most confronting. It seems to place a lot of emphasis on manmukhs and slanderers. It talks about hate, and being struck down, and cursed. It seems so out of character for Guru Granth Sahib Ji, which has made mention of manmukhs and slanderers on earlier pages, but nothing like it does now. I admit to being rather surprised by this. What's your impression of it? Does anyone else notice a pronounced change of pace compared to other Gurbani? It's not all sweetness and light anymore. Is there some historical context I'm missing around these shaloks and paurhis? Was Guru Ram Das Ji talking about literal slanderer's of himself, or of his Guru predecessors, or of Waheguru Itself? Here's a snippet for you, in case you don't believe me: [INDENT][FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800000][COLOR=rgb(0, 102, 204)]ਸਲੋਕ [/COLOR][COLOR=#0066cc]ਮਃ ੪ [/COLOR]॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=3]Salok mėhlā 4.[/SIZE] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 128)][SIZE=3]Shalok, Fourth Mehl:[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [SIZE=3][/SIZE] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800000][COLOR=#0066cc]ਸਾਕਤ ਜਾਇ ਨਿਵਹਿ ਗੁਰ ਆਗੈ ਮਨਿ ਖੋਟੇ ਕੂੜਿ ਕੂੜਿਆਰੇ [/COLOR]॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=3]Sākaṯ jā▫e nivėh gur āgai man kẖote kūṛ kūṛi▫āre.[/SIZE] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 128)][SIZE=3]The faithless cynics go and bow before the Guru, but their minds are corrupt and false, totally false.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [SIZE=3][/SIZE] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800000][COLOR=#0066cc]ਜਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਕਹੈ ਉਠਹੁ ਮੇਰੇ ਭਾਈ ਬਹਿ ਜਾਹਿ ਘੁਸਰਿ ਬਗੁਲਾਰੇ [/COLOR]॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=3]Jā gur kahai uṯẖahu mere bẖā▫ī bahi jāhi gẖusar bagulāre.[/SIZE] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 128)][SIZE=3]When the Guru says, "Rise up, my Siblings of Destiny", they sit down, crowded in like cranes.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [SIZE=3][/SIZE] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800000][COLOR=#0066cc]ਗੁਰਸਿਖਾ ਅੰਦਰਿ ਸਤਿਗੁਰੁ ਵਰਤੈ ਚੁਣਿ ਕਢੇ ਲਧੋਵਾਰੇ [/COLOR]॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=3]Gursikẖā anḏar saṯgur varṯai cẖuṇ kadẖe laḏẖovāre.[/SIZE] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 128)][SIZE=3]The True Guru prevails among His GurSikhs; they pick out and expel the wanderers.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [SIZE=3] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=rgb(128, 0, 0)][COLOR=#0066cc]ਓਇ [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(128, 0, 0)][COLOR=#0066cc]ਅਗੈ [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(128, 0, 0)][COLOR=#0066cc]ਪਿਛੈ [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(128, 0, 0)][COLOR=#0066cc]ਬਹਿ [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(128, 0, 0)][COLOR=#0066cc]ਮੁਹੁ [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(128, 0, 0)][COLOR=#0066cc]ਛਪਾਇਨਿ [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(128, 0, 0)][COLOR=#0066cc]ਨ [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(128, 0, 0)][COLOR=#0066cc]ਰਲਨੀ [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(128, 0, 0)][COLOR=#0066cc]ਖੋਟੇਆਰੇ [/COLOR][/COLOR][COLOR=rgb(128, 0, 0)]॥[/COLOR][/FONT][/SIZE] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=3]O▫e agai picẖẖai bahi muhu cẖẖapā▫in na ralnī kẖote▫āre.[/SIZE] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 128)][SIZE=3]Sitting here and there, they hide their faces; being counterfeit, they cannot mix with the genuine.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [SIZE=3][/SIZE] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800000][COLOR=#0066cc]ਓਨਾ ਦਾ ਭਖੁ ਸੁ ਓਥੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਜਾਇ ਕੂੜੁ ਲਹਨਿ ਭੇਡਾਰੇ [/COLOR]॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=3]Onā ḏā bẖakẖ so othai nāhī jā▫e kūṛ lahan bẖedāre.[/SIZE] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 128)][SIZE=3]There is no food for them there; the false go into the filth like sheep.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [SIZE=3][/SIZE] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800000][COLOR=#0066cc]ਜੇ ਸਾਕਤੁ ਨਰੁ ਖਾਵਾਈਐ ਲੋਚੀਐ ਬਿਖੁ ਕਢੈ ਮੁਖਿ ਉਗਲਾਰੇ [/COLOR]॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=3]Je sākaṯ nar kẖāvā▫ī▫ai locẖī▫ai bikẖ kadẖai mukẖ uglāre.[/SIZE] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 128)][SIZE=3]If you try to feed the faithless cynic, he will spit out poison from his mouth.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [SIZE=3][/SIZE] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800000][COLOR=#0066cc]ਹਰਿ ਸਾਕਤ ਸੇਤੀ ਸੰਗੁ ਨ ਕਰੀਅਹੁ ਓਇ ਮਾਰੇ ਸਿਰਜਣਹਾਰੇ [/COLOR]॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=3]Har sākaṯ seṯī sang na karī▫ahu o▫e māre sirjaṇhāre.[/SIZE] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 128)][SIZE=3]O Lord, let me not be in the company of the faithless cynic, who is cursed by the Creator Lord.[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [SIZE=3][/SIZE] [FONT=AnmolUniPr][SIZE=3][COLOR=#800000][COLOR=#0066cc]ਜਿਸ ਕਾ ਇਹੁ ਖੇਲੁ ਸੋਈ ਕਰਿ ਵੇਖੈ ਜਨ ਨਾਨਕ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਮਾਰੇ [/COLOR]॥੧॥[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=3]Jis kā ih kẖel so▫ī kar vekẖai jan Nānak nām samāre. ||1||[/SIZE] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 128)][SIZE=3]This drama belongs to the Lord; He performs it, and He watches over it. Servant Nanak cherishes the Naam, the Name of the Lord. ||1||[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [/INDENT] Oh, and one last question: Why does it finish, on ang 317, with the word 'Sudh'? [INDENT][SIZE=3][FONT=AnmolUniPr][COLOR=#800000][COLOR=#0066cc]ਜਿਉ ਭਾਵੈ ਤਿਉ ਰਖੁ ਤੂੰ ਸਚਿਆ ਨਾਨਕ ਮਨਿ ਆਸ ਤੇਰੀ ਵਡ ਵਡੇ ॥੩੩॥੧॥ ਸੁਧੁ [/COLOR]॥[/COLOR][/FONT] [/SIZE] [FONT=TAHOMA][SIZE=3]Ji▫o bẖāvai ṯi▫o rakẖ ṯūʼn sacẖi▫ā Nānak man ās ṯerī vad vade. ||33||1|| suḏẖ.[/SIZE] [COLOR=rgb(0, 0, 128)][SIZE=3]If it pleases You, then save me, True Lord. Nanak places the hopes of his mind in You alone, O greatest of the great! ||33||1|| Sudh||[/SIZE][/COLOR][/FONT] [/INDENT] Many thanks. [/QUOTE]
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Gurbani Of A Different Flavour
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