I Don't Have An Attitude Problem. I Am Just Simply Treating People As They Treat Me

[chazSingh]

someone posted on their facebook wall today:
"I don't have an attitude problem I am just simply treating people as they treat me!!"
many of the persons facebook friends then 'liked' the comment.

This got me thinking...
many people think they are 'nice' people...that they only behave a certain way if they are provoked...

but then what makes us any different to the person that provoked us...
all they did was show us that we also have this 'dark' side within us...

if we get angry because someone has provoked us...then maybe our next thought should be:

"Thank you god for showing me that i also have an anger issue "
and then do our simran and seva and flush this disease out of us regardless of whether we were provoked or not

or maybe the next time someone shouts at us....say something 'kind' in return no matter how many insults one receives...

Remember, all that exists is god...if someone is angry at you, it will be god using the other person to show you how much anger you have within yourselves.

break the cycle of action and reaction: i hate you -> i hate you too -> i hate you more - not as much as i hate you

sometimes all it takes is something different...love being returned in the face of anger and little 'miracles' start happening in our relationships with other....the power of humbleness...

 

[Harry Haller]

and then do our simran and seva and flush this disease out of us regardless of whether we were provoked or not

Chazji

I find myself increasingly liking your posts, however, I would appreciate your comments on your attitude to simran/seva. I personally feel that understanding, like study, should shine a light on our behaviour, ie, if one understands the disease, the cause, the symptoms, one can use wisdom to overcome, rather than faith. I do not profess to have mastered this in any way, but I look forward to your comments,

 

[chazSingh]

Chazji

I find myself increasingly liking your posts, however, I would appreciate your comments on your attitude to simran/seva. I personally feel that understanding, like study, should shine a light on our behaviour, ie, if one understands the disease, the cause, the symptoms, one can use wisdom to overcome, rather than faith. I do not profess to have mastered this in any way, but I look forward to your comments,

Satnama Harry Ji,

hope all is well in life ji.

Concerning Simran...When one see's the light of god/soul and hears the sound of God (consciosness) within themselves....they realise that the same exists within others also (they just haven't discovered it yet). It becomes very difficult then to be angry at someone, or getting upset at what they are saying or spending hours getting stressed over the smallest of things.

As this understanding increases...you start seeing the tests of life from a different viewpoint...rather than being sucked into the 'play' the 'drama' of it all...you start analyzing your own behaviour because you realise the world around you is just reflecting your inner self...and you see how the mind is dictating many peoples behaviour (including my own).

if you have a strong emotional attachment to your family, deep down you're afraid to lose them...along comes a wife who doesnt get on with them and you have to manage the situation.. do you get angry at the wife? do you worry about what your own family will think about things? once you start feeling the God in you...it helps in all situations in life...but for yourself...to judge yourself..not to judge the people around you...

the poeple around you are there as you're 'spiritual playground' where you test yourself and grow as a human being and develop your godly attributes...love compassion forgiveness etc...and for you to come face to face with your own evils..
in the same way you're also in another persons spiritual playground where they will learn from you...so always lead by example..as much as you can.

The seva aspect develops even further as now, when you do something for someone else, you know that you're doing it for the God within them, because you've seen/felt it within yourself also...so even if they curse, slander, spit on you...you know that they have the same potential as you and everyone else...all on an equal playing field.
behind the faces, bodies, masks, boundaries, colours..is the same ocean of consciousness, the one totality of consciousness...

the whole viewpoint changes to life itself...thats why i always stress the importance of spending time to discover and ignore the chatter of the mind, and just listen and be witness to your own consciousness...because once you become 'aware' of it, it will change your life forever.

this is just my current understanding...because it evolves all the time...i've read some of my posts from a year ago and gosh did i speak some rubbish from time to time this is why no one is right and no one is wrong...where just all at different parts of our spiritual journey.

 

[Navdeep88]

I personally think Anger is very useful, if channeled correctly & put to action Not Involving other people, ie. Exercise.

But I am a fan of responding to hate w/ Love, but I think sometimes u can respond back w/ hate too. cuz we're all just human. If the person's being rotten maybe THEY want to know their own Rotteness, just like you do. So in effect youre helping Them to Connect to the same God you want to be, by being rotten back! Lol

If the big G's lovin you, what makes u think he isn't loving him/her too, in their Rotten glory? Lol. All in all, I think ignoring is a really good option... as well as being Nice back. But not so much that you're like bending your back & they're making No effort. No sirrie. Equal efforts on all parts

 

[chazSingh]

I personally think Anger is very useful, if channeled correctly & put to action Not Involving other people, ie. Exercise.

But I am a fan of responding to hate w/ Love, but I think sometimes u can respond back w/ hate too. cuz we're all just human. If the person's being rotten maybe THEY want to know their own Rotteness, just like you do. So in effect youre helping Them to Connect to the same God you want to be, by being rotten back! Lol

If the big G's lovin you, what makes u think he isn't loving him/her too, in their Rotten glory? Lol. All in all, I think ignoring is a really good option... as well as being Nice back. But not so much that you're like bending your back & they're making No effort. No sirrie. Equal efforts on all parts

agree a little to what you're saying...

but (and theres always a but)
a true martial artist..many of the original kung fu masters including bruce lee, would meditate for hours to reduce the effects of anger as anger removed their focus and strength. their own anger to them was more of an enemy than the other person. self control to them was the method to defeat the other person that was fueled by anger.

by saying that you can also hit back in anger from time to time because maybe god is using you to teach them also about their anger...your mind is making excuses for you to use anger...thats how it works...
some people though can raise their voice imitating anger but have no anger inside...they are in complete control.

when anger confronts anger...the ego of each indivual keeps getting fed and the cycle continues over and over. thoughts of "i can't let the other get away with this...they must know how much they're hurting me, they must know that they're a bad person" start pouring in.

instead break the cycle (the miracle) by replying with love as much as possible...and it's amazing how the message gets across to the other person that they have an anger issue without you even raising you're voice, or breaking a sweat.

I'm only saying this because of my life experiences...i've had death threats, hours and hours of verbal abuse to myself, family (over a period of a year)...threats to them also. whilst my mind was screaming 'how dare they threaten me and my family...get revenge!!' for some peculiar reason i took another approach...and over time you wouldnt believe the little 'miracles' in peoples behaviour and i never responded in anger once. It took a lot of effort...when i could feel anger and hate coming into my being, i would do a lot of simran to cool its effects...gosh i would even silently recite 'satnaam' and 'waheguru' and pray for the other person(s) when they were spitting in my face ... who is there to hate...when the show is over, there is only one and only ever was one....waheguru

in the words of Nanak
naanak parakhae aap ko thaa paarakh jaan ||
O Nanak, if someone judges himself, only then is he known as a real judge.

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=433

or for the less spiritual readers...

in the words of michael jackson:

I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change

 

[arshdeep88]

Must say this thread has lot to be learned from with due respect to all who are conversing and presenting views
very nice thread

Being Humble and give up ego is one of the most difficult task ,
if you ever try wondering I always walk along with ourselves,its mere existence keeps us away from listening to the silent things
i will just post one incident from the life of Guru Arjan Dev Mahraj Ji Here which i read somewhere and which is really inspiring


it was during the time of Guru Arjan Dev Jee. Sangat was coming from Kabul (Afghanistan) to Amritsar for darshan of Gurujee. They met a Sikh and his wife on their way. This Sikh did a lot of sewa of the sangat. He massaged their legs, waved... ...fan over them as they rested, brought water for them, everything. The next day they proceeded with this Sikh to Amritsar. As they reached Darbar Sahib, the jathedar of that Kabul sangat asked a few boys to take care of the shoes of everyone. None of the boys was ready to do it, as they all were very much eager to be the first ones to have darshan of Gurujee. At last this Sikh came forward and said I shall do it.
The sangat went inside and waited for 30-45 minutes, but Gurujee didn't show up. Then the jathedar went ahead and asked Baba Buddha Jee where Gurujee was.
Babajee : Gurujee has gone to see the sangat coming from Kabul.
Jathedar : But we are the sangat from Kabul!
Babajee : Didn't you meet Gurujee?
Jathedar : No Babajee, we didn't. But we met a Sikh and his wife and they did a lot of sewa.
Babajee : Where is that Sikh now?
Jathedar : We left him to look after the shoes of the sangat.
Babajee, followed by the jathedar, followed by the entire sangat went outside to look for that Sikh. They saw him cleaning all the shoes with his own chola.
It was none other than Guru Arjan Dev Jee Himself
Baba Buddha Jee went forward and took away the pair of shoes Gurujee was cleaning. Babajee said "Why are you doing this?". The entire sangat was now in tears. Gurujee smiled and said "Babajee, I haven't seen Guru Nanak Dev Jee, but you have. Take a look again at this pair of shoes". Babajee took a good look at the pair of shoes, and since he had been with Guru Nanak Dev Jee, he immediately recognized that it was Guru Nanak Dev Jee's pair of shoes.
Moral of the sakhi : When doing sewa at the Gurdwara, do it with this thought in mind that who knows who is visiting the Gurdwara today! Who knows which Gurmukh soul has come today! If you are cleaning a small kid's shoes, have in mind that it could belong to one of the Sahibzaade. If you are cleaning a bibi's shoes, have in mind that it could belong to Bibi Bhani. If you are cleaning a bhai ji's shoes, have in mind that it could belong to Bhai Bailo.

 

[chazSingh]

Must say this thread has lot to be learned from with due respect to all who are conversing and presenting views
very nice thread

Being Humble and give up ego is one of the most difficult task ,
if you ever try wondering I always walk along with ourselves,its mere existence keeps us away from listening to the silent things
i will just post one incident from the life of Guru Angad Dev Mahraj Ji Here which i read somewhere and which is really inspiring


it was during the time of Guru Arjan Dev Jee. Sangat was coming from Kabul (Afghanistan) to Amritsar for darshan of Gurujee. They met a Sikh and his wife on their way. This Sikh did a lot of sewa of the sangat. He massaged their legs, waved... ...fan over them as they rested, brought water for them, everything. The next day they proceeded with this Sikh to Amritsar. As they reached Darbar Sahib, the jathedar of that Kabul sangat asked a few boys to take care of the shoes of everyone. None of the boys was ready to do it, as they all were very much eager to be the first ones to have darshan of Gurujee. At last this Sikh came forward and said I shall do it.
The sangat went inside and waited for 30-45 minutes, but Gurujee didn't show up. Then the jathedar went ahead and asked Baba Buddha Jee where Gurujee was.
Babajee : Gurujee has gone to see the sangat coming from Kabul.
Jathedar : But we are the sangat from Kabul!
Babajee : Didn't you meet Gurujee?
Jathedar : No Babajee, we didn't. But we met a Sikh and his wife and they did a lot of sewa.
Babajee : Where is that Sikh now?
Jathedar : We left him to look after the shoes of the sangat.
Babajee, followed by the jathedar, followed by the entire sangat went outside to look for that Sikh. They saw him cleaning all the shoes with his own chola.
It was none other than Guru Arjan Dev Jee Himself
Baba Buddha Jee went forward and took away the pair of shoes Gurujee was cleaning. Babajee said "Why are you doing this?". The entire sangat was now in tears. Gurujee smiled and said "Babajee, I haven't seen Guru Nanak Dev Jee, but you have. Take a look again at this pair of shoes". Babajee took a good look at the pair of shoes, and since he had been with Guru Nanak Dev Jee, he immediately recognized that it was Guru Nanak Dev Jee's pair of shoes.
Moral of the sakhi : When doing sewa at the Gurdwara, do it with this thought in mind that who knows who is visiting the Gurdwara today! Who knows which Gurmukh soul has come today! If you are cleaning a small kid's shoes, have in mind that it could belong to one of the Sahibzaade. If you are cleaning a bibi's shoes, have in mind that it could belong to Bibi Bhani. If you are cleaning a bhai ji's shoes, have in mind that it could belong to Bhai Bailo.

very enlightening ji

love, compassion, forgiveness, being humble...

these are all divine qualities we must always fight for in the face of ego, anger and hate

 

[arshdeep88]

Talking of forgiveness i was moved on when i read how 6th Guru ,Guru Hargobind Rai Ji had forgave Jahangir The Emperor responsible for the Martyrdom of his father Guru Arjan Dev Mahraj later on and even had met him on several occasions
one such teaching of guru har rai ji too comes across my mind when someone asks him why is he helping Mughal Emperors who had been responsible for sufferings on Sikh Gurus of late?
to which Guru Mahraj Ji Answers
"Man Breaks Flowers From One Hand And Offers Them With Other,But The Flowers Perfumes Both Hands Alike.The Axe Cuts The Sandal Tree ,Yet The Sandal Perfumes The Axe"
compare it to Us who just out of some verbal abuses are ready to kill each other for nothing

 

[chazSingh]

Talking of forgiveness i was moved on when i read how 6th Guru ,Guru Hargobind Rai Ji had forgave Jahangir The Emperor responsible for the Martyrdom of his father Guru Arjan Dev Mahraj later on and even had met him on several occasions
one such teaching of guru har rai ji too comes across my mind when someone asks him why is he helping Mughal Emperors who had been responsible for sufferings on Sikh Gurus of late?
to which Guru Mahraj Ji Answers
"Man Breaks Flowers From One Hand And Offers Them With Other,But The Flowers Perfumes Both Hands Alike.The Axe Cuts The Sandal Tree ,Yet The Sandal Perfumes The Axe"
compare it to Us who just out of some verbal abuses are ready to kill each other for nothing

all these qualities start within us...through our simran, seva, the light of god starts to shine through us...
these qualities manifest in our family and friends circle..and just keeps growing...

but our battle with maya and mind (ego, anger, lust, greed, desire) continues...the world goes against one who fights for these divine qualities... but it doesnt matter..we stand firm, fight hard with love and in the end when we take our last breath we take with us our deeds only and hopefully leave behind the 'perfume of the sandle tree'

 

[Navdeep88]

agree a little to what you're saying...

but (and theres always a but)
a true martial artist..many of the original kung fu masters including bruce lee, would meditate for hours to reduce the effects of anger as anger removed their focus and strength. their own anger to them was more of an enemy than the other person. self control to them was the method to defeat the other person that was fueled by anger.

by saying that you can also hit back in anger from time to time because maybe god is using you to teach them also about their anger...your mind is making excuses for you to use anger...thats how it works...
some people though can raise their voice imitating anger but have no anger inside...they are in complete control.

when anger confronts anger...the ego of each indivual keeps getting fed and the cycle continues over and over. thoughts of "i can't let the other get away with this...they must know how much they're hurting me, they must know that they're a bad person" start pouring in.

instead break the cycle (the miracle) by replying with love as much as possible...and it's amazing how the message gets across to the other person that they have an anger issue without you even raising you're voice, or breaking a sweat.

I'm only saying this because of my life experiences...i've had death threats, hours and hours of verbal abuse to myself, family (over a period of a year)...threats to them also. whilst my mind was screaming 'how dare they threaten me and my family...get revenge!!' for some peculiar reason i took another approach...and over time you wouldnt believe the little 'miracles' in peoples behaviour and i never responded in anger once. It took a lot of effort...when i could feel anger and hate coming into my being, i would do a lot of simran to cool its effects...gosh i would even silently recite 'satnaam' and 'waheguru' and pray for the other person(s) when they were spitting in my face ... who is there to hate...when the show is over, there is only one and only ever was one....waheguru

in the words of Nanak
naanak parakhae aap ko thaa paarakh jaan ||
O Nanak, if someone judges himself, only then is he known as a real judge.

http://www.sikhitothemax.com/page.asp?ShabadID=433

or for the less spiritual readers...

in the words of michael jackson:

I'm Starting With The Man In
The Mirror
I'm Asking Him To Change
His Ways
And No Message Could Have
Been Any Clearer
If You Wanna Make The World
A Better Place
Take A Look At Yourself, And
Then Make A Change

sikhism is not about being a Martial artist shut off from the world, chaz ji, from what I gather. someone smacks you across the face, u must be present for it & allow how it feels. Ofcourse, response is all in your hands & depends greatly on the context, whats at stake etc. That's why I suggested exercise or other pursuits b/c that way you can't deny what your emotions are but you chanel them in a positive way to the best effect in the world.

There is no such things as submission to anger or ill will imo. It's completely unnatural.

(Thank you for your response, I learned from it).

 

[chazSingh]

sikhism is not about being a Martial artist shut off from the world, chaz ji, from what I gather. someone smacks you across the face, u must be present for it & allow how it feels. Ofcourse, response is all in your hands & depends greatly on the context, whats at stake etc. That's why I suggested exercise or other pursuits b/c that way you can't deny what your emotions are but you chanel them in a positive way to the best effect in the world.

There is no such things as submission to anger or ill will imo. It's completely unnatural.

(Thank you for your response, I learned from it).

ofcourse ji, if someone is going to/ or has smacked you in the face...then self defence is a must...self defence is noble when it's the 'last resort' if the situation cannot be resolved in a peaceful manner.
but there is a big difference between doing so out of protection of one's ownself, for protection of others and remaining in 'control of oneself' and emotions...compared to 'losing self control' to 'anger' and just wishing as much harm on the other in as short a time as possible.

sometimes i wonder if our guru's were consumed in anger...if they would have stopped to aid to the enemies wounds, or to give them water... or guru gobind singh putting a nugget of gold on the end of his arrows so that the enemy could sell it to get medicine for treatment of wounds or for the family if the enemy had died..


"sikhism is not about being a Martial artist shut off from the world"
I don't think i mentioned in my post anything about being shut off from the world? if you also study original martial arts like kung fu, they teach principled very simlar to sikhi ... self control, overcoming the negative influence of ones own mind (anger, lust, ego, desire, greed)

from gurbani i think the unatural state is when one is consumed with anger because it originates from our mind. our natural state is our Soul..which is beyond the mind and from what i gather only knows how to deal with love, compassion, forgiveness etc. Its our soul we need to identify with more...

Just my thoughts...i respect yours also.

god bless ji.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

someone smacks you across the face, u must be present for it

Why should it come to being smacked? Why can't we read people?

 

[Luckysingh]

A smack in the face is taken on the chin.
To 'take it on the chin' is a term used to take a smack that helps to diffuse the angry air over a certain matter.

Sometimes. this 'taking it on the chin' is a way to help the opponent calm down and lose his/her anger.
It is part of anger management contributed by the other 'un-angry' person.

I'm not too sure what Kanwaljit means with-

Why should it come to being smacked? Why can't we read people?

Do you mean ''sense'' or predict people ??

 

[chazSingh]

A smack in the face is taken on the chin.
To 'take it on the chin' is a term used to take a smack that helps to diffuse the angry air over a certain matter.

Sometimes. this 'taking it on the chin' is a way to help the opponent calm down and lose his/her anger.
It is part of anger management contributed by the other 'un-angry' person.

I'm not too sure what Kanwaljit means with-

Do you mean ''sense'' or predict people ??

this is just it....
the ego feeds of anger, hurt etc...when someone is getting angry at you...their ego is 'expecting' the usual response back...it feeds off it..

just takes something different..something new...something the other persons ego doesnt expect, and you can see it in their face, it's like a sudden pause, a glitch in the mind...a short circuit...

so they try again...and realise again their words, actions aren't affecting you like they thought.

these are 'little miracles' as i like to call them.
i'm not saying that you do it once and all of a sudden the other person becomes a saint...takes time...but it's time well spent.


otherwise...you just have the 'mirror' effect "you hate me? -> i hate you also ... and so on...

you may as well be screaming at yourself this is why they say your life is like a mirror to inner self...change the inner self and you change your life forever.

God bless kucky ji

 

[chazSingh]

Why should it come to being smacked? Why can't we read people?

yes ji, Remaining calm and in control of your emotions is the key to 'reading' people....wat control doesn one have when they lose control to anger...

we get upset with god when we come across these tough situations in life...but they really are blessing in disguise...if you step away from your mind and let the soul dictate the actions...you become free from these situations and one evolves spirutally..

if we dont learn from the situation...similar situations just keep arising over and over, different place, different people...same thing.
mind thinks "ooh, last time this happened, i took no crap, and said the same back and more!...lets try that again" = failure again

God Bless ji

 

[arshdeep88]

yes ji, Remaining calm and in control of your emotions is the key to 'reading' people....wat control doesn one have when they lose control to anger...

beautifully explained

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

A related incident happened at a developer conf PYCON:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...got-two-people-fired-and-led-to-ddos-attacks/

A lot of mishandling of reactions and emotions..

 

[Luckysingh]

Why should it come to being smacked? Why can't we read people?

Do you mean the one being smacked or the one smacking that does the reading ?

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

The one getting smacked should be able to read the person. We put hopes in others and feel bad when we are shamed in front of others.