Sikhism In The Master's Presence - The Sikhs Of Hazoor Sahib

[Randip Singh]

Hi All,

I recently heard about this book. They condemed it on sikhsangat, so I thought to myself it must be good if they want to ban it :happy:
In the Master's Presence: The Sikhs of Hazoor Sahib: 1: Nidar Singh Nihang, Parmjit Singh: Amazon.co.uk: Books

Anyone read it? Is it any good?

 

[Randip Singh]

here is the book launch:

YouTube - 'In the Master's Presence' Book Launch

 

[Archived_member7]

I have gone through the book..although not in detail ..just a glance ..The book was launched at Huzoor Sahib during the 300 saal celebrations 2008 ...Well ..as long as you dont have allergy to the Puratan Sanatan Sikhi and are not nostalgic about Nihangs, their beliefs and ways of life you will enjoy it.

Read the book as a piece of information rather than some comments which i anticipate on the author Bhai Niddar Singh ji Jathedar Buddha Dal UK . He is the King of controversies in the Sikh World.

I should confess i was waiting for this book since last 3 years. It does share remarkable history you will not find anywhere else and I salute Bhai Niddar Singhji for all the research He has done Once upon a time i was a fan of Bhai Niddar Singh ji

 

[Randip Singh]

I have gone through the book..although not in detail ..just a glance ..The book was launched at Huzoor Sahib during the 300 saal celebrations 2008 ...Well ..as long as you dont have allergy to the Puratan Sanatan Sikhi and are not nostalgic about Nihangs, their beliefs and ways of life you will enjoy it.

Read the book as a piece of information rather than some comments which i anticipate on the author Bhai Niddar Singh ji Jathedar Buddha Dal UK . He is the King of controversies in the Sikh World.

I should confess i was waiting for this book since last 3 years. It does share remarkable history you will not find anywhere else and I salute Bhai Niddar Singhji for all the research He has done Once upon a time i was a fan of Bhai Niddar Singh ji

I think I will buy it and read it. Sounds pretty good to me.

Also I would say the people who criticise him are probably more controversial.

 

[Archived_Member4]

This is one of the first times I have heard of Bhai Niddar Singh ji. He has wrote somethings in this book I believe that do not go with the Gurus teachings. And once asked to justify his claims like Kaurs can cut hair he had no answer and apologized for his mistakes. I respect him for owning up to his mistakes. There should be more men like him in this world that don't let their pride get the better half of them.

Regarding the book it can go either way.

 

[Randip Singh]

This is one of the first times I have heard of Bhai Niddar Singh ji. He has wrote somethings in this book I believe that do not go with the Gurus teachings. And once asked to justify his claims like Kaurs can cut hair he had no answer and apologized for his mistakes. I respect him for owning up to his mistakes. There should be more men like him in this world that don't let their pride get the better half of them.

Regarding the book it can go either way.

He's only human, and I suppose as humans we make mistakes. The best researchers do.

 

[dalsingh]

There are few names that can get the youth of UK riled up like that of Niddar!!!

I have read Paramjit's previous publications (thoses he wrote with Amandeep Singh Madra) and believe they are of high quality. I have yet to read this one.

 

[Randip Singh]

I have just received my copy of this book and I would highly recommend it.

It is very well put together, and very well researched, with some beautiful illustration and well sourced and research.

The controversial bit is the section on the current Jathedhar of Hazoor Sahib Kulwant Singh who seems to be a real light weight and complicit in the destruction of Sikh Architecture. There are shocking pictures of demolition of the Ramgarhia Bunga at night time under the cover of darkness. I think Kulwant Singh (who seems pro AKJ or DDT) is/was complicit in this descration of Sikh Architecture. Who needs the GOI to bomb Sikh temples when we have Jathedar Kulwant Singh doing it.

No wonder there is such venom coming from (AKJ/DDT) quarters against Niddar Singh. I say good on Niddar Singh for exposing this and good on him for showing things as they are. Pictures don't lie and the demolition pictures are there for all to see.

On another note Jathedar Kulwant Singh seems to have abandoned the Martial tradition of the Hazoori Sikhs which was kept up by the previous Jathedar Joginder Singh Moni. He seems like an all round wimp, spineless and a corrupt to boot. Sorry for the strong words but what I am reading and the pictures make me really angry.:}--}:

Nihang Niddar Singh and Paramjit Singh should be praised for exposing this.

 

[spnadmin]

Randip ji

Please see my comment on the thread, Nihang Niddar Singh: What is the Controversy? Good work.

 

[Randip Singh]

Randip ji

Please see my comment on the thread, Nihang Niddar Singh: What is the Controversy? Good work.

Here is the link:

http://www.sikhism.us/hard-talk/23915-nihang-niddar-singh-what-is-controversy.html

 

[Boota]

Panthic Weekly: Niddar and UK Sanatanists Challenged at Sri Hazoor Sahib<o></o>
<o></o>
Panthic Weekly: Worrying Rise in Propagation of 'Sanatan Sikhi' (Editorial)<o></o>
<o></o>
Panthic Weekly: Sanatanist Nihang Niddar Apologizes on newly released Hazur Sahib Video

 

[spnadmin]

Boota ji

The idea of that an apology was given is disinformation. There is a saying: If you say something often enough, then it will become the truth. This is exactly what is happening before our very eyes. A lie or mis-statement is repeated over and over and then it becomes "true" in the eyes of many.

There are blogs and forums making statements about "apologies" as if they are true and then crowds of comments follow in agreement with such falsehood. That is what the intro to the Hazoor Sahib video is -- nothing more. An act of "disinformation."

Here is the truth. Sanatan in Sikhism is not a new and rising trend. It has been a current within Sikhism since the beginning of Sikhism. Sanatan is a a theme of worship among several sects within Sikhism and has always been a current of worship.

One could just as easily say, and perhaps more truthfully say, that there is an "alarming" rise of fanaticism among Sikhs.

With only respect for my fellow Sikhs: Untruths and disinformation should be more upsetting to us. Nankian philosophy rejects fanaticism. Disinformation is not truthful. Guru Nanak asked us to take up 'truthful" living -- and some sects within Sikhism, and many fanatical members of fanatical sects, have forgotten that fundamental point.

So for some of us -- links from Panthic Weekly are not persuasive. The stance of Panthic Weekly is journalistic bashing motivated by the desire to command the stage and decide who is a Sikh so as to suit a narrow and fanatical political agenda.

 

[spnadmin]

Back again, apologies

Here is an example of disinformation, typical of Panthic Weekly. This is an excerpt from one of the links posted.

Sanaatan
So what is Sanaatanism? The word ‘Sanaatan’ literally means ‘traditional’ or ‘original,’ however in India it is used to refer to the ancient traditional beliefs and practices of the Hindus. Sanaatanism basically is an ideology that states, it is the oldest theory, hence insinuating it is correct and everything else is wrong. It does not believe in one maryada but in many maryadas and many groups, i.e. Nihangs, Nirmallas, UdaasisSeva Panthis. and

Not only is this statement factually incorrect, it is not news. It is not news, It is not news. It is not news. It is not news. There! I have said it a few times. maybe a lot of people will be convinced that it is not news. The article starts with an untruthful statement and then builds up with a big boom to its conclusion, as follows:

In five years time these misled youth will openly justify partying, clubbing, drinking, eating meat, extra-marital relationships and drug use by saying that they follow a particular line of Sikhi, like their role models. But will they ever be accepted by the Guru? We all need to think logically, do we really accept Sanaatanism? Thinking logically leaving aside the attachment to proud Nihang history and reflecting on basic facts of the ideologue, we must decide - do we really accept all this white wash of the Sikh faith and history?

Panthic Weekly: Worrying Rise in Propagation of 'Sanatan Sikhi' (Editorial)<o></o>

The article is designed to cement hysteria and hatred. Sanatan does not mean "traditional" nor does it mean "original." If the writers at Panthic Weekly took the time to educate themselves, they would know that. I think they do know it but are using rhetoric to twist a story and fire up the collective. Read this sentence again: Sanaatanism basically is an ideology that states, it is the oldest theory, hence insinuating it is correct and everything else is wrong. Can you see how a conclusion has been drawn from a mistruth?

It is very hard for some to separate fact from opinion. If an opinion is educated by respect for facts then it makes sense to reflect on such an opinion. Actually the piece quoted comes from an editorial and is an opinion -- but not an opinion educated by respect for the facts. So why take it seriously?

 

[Boota]

Boota ji

Sanatan is a a theme of worship among several sects within Sikhism and has always been a current of worship.

This is very interesting aad002 ji.

Please clarify what you mean by "theme" in this context. How many themes do you say there are in Sikhi?

What are the basic themes or tenants for Sanatans?

Please also forgive my ignorance but I have no cognizance of there being several "sects within Sikhism. I am only aware of the one so called "sect", which is Sikhism itself.

Please teach as I am eager to learn.

 

[spnadmin]

This is very interesting aad002 ji.

Please clarify what you mean by "theme" in this context. How many themes do you say there are in Sikhi?

What are the basic themes or tenants for Sanatans?

Please also forgive my ignorance but I have no cognizance of there being several "sects within Sikhism. I am only aware of the one so called "sect", which is Sikhism itself.

Please teach as I am eager to learn.

Boota ji

At this point, there is nothing to add. The paragraph from the link you have yourself posted contains 3 or 4 mis-statements. It says,

So what is Sanaatanism? The word ‘Sanaatan’ literally means ‘traditional’ or ‘original,’ however in India it is used to refer to the ancient traditional beliefs and practices of the Hindus. Sanaatanism basically is an ideology that states, it is the oldest theory, hence insinuating it is correct and everything else is wrong. It does not believe in one maryada but in many maryadas and many groups, i.e. Nihangs, Nirmallas, Udaasis and Seva Panthis.

The editorial refers to "groups" rather than "sects." But it lists Nihangs, NIrmallas, Uddasis and Seva Panthis. Others refer to these "groups" as "sects." I would not make too much of a fuss over the difference. It is a distinction without a difference - in so far as they do have different maryadas. Am I mistaken? Should one conclude from the paragraph that Nihangs, Nirmalls, Udaasis and Seva Panthis -- who are in the Sanatan tradition -- are therefore part of the rising trend that is sanatan, and because of that is leading Sikhs astray?

If that is not the correct understanding of the paragraph, then what is your understanding? It is my understanding that Nirmallas were created by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Himself. :wink: And that the history of the Nihangs is also tied closely to Nanak X as well.

The idea that there is one Sikh faith -- I agree. So then why exclude on the basis of the editorial definition? Unless of course you are not excluding.

It may be worth the time to analyze the entire editorial argument by argument.

 

[Randip Singh]

This is very interesting aad002 ji.

Please clarify what you mean by "theme" in this context. How many themes do you say there are in Sikhi?

What are the basic themes or tenants for Sanatans?

Please also forgive my ignorance but I have no cognizance of there being several "sects within Sikhism. I am only aware of the one so called "sect", which is Sikhism itself.

Please teach as I am eager to learn.

There are many sects as aaad ji has pointed out.

One of the most recent ones AKJ or Akhand Kirtani Jatha has ONLY been around 60 years and they control Panthic weekly and many sites on the internet. Most of this vitriol on the internet is by them.

 

[spnadmin]

Someone has discovered the meaning of journalistic objectivity

In The Master's Presence


News Source: www.gurukaur.com


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You can tell a lot about a book by its book launch. The gathering in the Jubilee Room at the House of Commons for the launch of In The Master's Presence

, a book by our friends Nidar Singh Nihang and Parmjit Singh indeed omens well for its future.

Although I was only able to glance through the sample copy briefly it was enough to know that the superbly selected, and abundant use of, illustrations alone gives this book a very special place in the annals of Sikh History. It has a quality about it, not only in the production which is superb, but also in the depth and calibre of its authors, men both of high integrity and standards of excellence

As Nidar Singh Nihang put it, this book gives an alternative view on our history. Drawing on sources in Hazoor Sahib, Maharastra, it conveys the vision of Sikhism untainted by its reformation in the Northern States. There's bound to be some controversy here, but without that this book would have risked becoming yet another of those run-of-the-mill histories. I'm quite sure that the ten years of research which these two mighty men put into the writing of this beautiful book was methodical and meticulous. I look forward to being able to learn more and enjoying the forthcoming discussions about such an important aspect of our past. Parmjit's previous books include the wonderful Warrior Saints

, which shows the three hundred year history of Nihang Singhs, one of the most treasured books we have.

 

[Randip Singh]

AAd ji,

What we have here is a new wave of Sikhs who are very intelectul in their approch tot the subject matter. I think we need to commend them, rather than take notice of the IDIOTs and HATE mongers at Nindya Weekly oops I mean "Panthic" Weekly.

 

[spnadmin]

Randip ji

:yes: Now that I said :yes: let me respond to your main idea above. You are, in my opinion, onto something very important. That is a generation that does not assault reflective decent balanced thought.

I visited the http://www.gurukaur.com web site several times in the past. It is not a blog but the site of a business woman in UK who happens to be also 3HO. She has an amazing take on women and their needs in this century in every walk of life. A person doesn't have to be a Sikh, 3HO to realize how helpful it is. And men can find something good three too! Gurukaur is a business consultant to large companies and she also maintains a very complex and rich multilayered web presence in which she provides resources for physical health, emotional balance, spirituality, relationships, current events, literature. There is nothing there that insults anyone, man or woman, who is trying to take what they have and move it a little ****her in a better direction. And there is nothing there that breathes fire and animosity.

 

[Randip Singh]

Randip ji

:yes: Now that I said :yes: let me respond to your main idea above. You are, in my opinion, onto something very important. That is a generation that does not assault reflective decent balanced thought.

I visited the http://www.gurukaur.com web site several times in the past. It is not a blog but the site of a business woman in UK who happens to be also 3HO. She has an amazing take on women and their needs in this century in every walk of life. A person doesn't have to be a Sikh, 3HO to realize how helpful it is. And men can find something good three too! Gurukaur is a business consultant to large companies and she also maintains a very complex and rich multilayered web presence in which she provides resources for physical health, emotional balance, spirituality, relationships, current events, literature. There is nothing there that insults anyone, man or woman, who is trying to take what they have and move it a little ****her in a better direction. And there is nothing there that breathes fire and animosity.

You know one of the writers that kind of annoys me is Mcleod, but many of his arguments are countered by heavy weight intellectuals like Dr Mann and Jagjit Singh. That is the way to do IMHO.

Saying this, there is asome great research by Mcleod and some of the stuff he writes is brilliant.