India Jhatka At Hazoor Sahib Gurdwara

[roopsidhu]

SSA
Recently I have seen some clips on youtube about jhatka at some historical gurdwaras. Not only jhatka but also offering ( bhog lagana ) it to the shashtras of Dasam pita. All the karamkands (brahmanical style of rites) during and after the jhatka were more ironical.
I believe that eating meat or not is a very personal thing but giving "bali" like this at a historical place does not remain personal. This becomes sikhi issue.
I like the scholers to share their views on this point

 

[japjisahib04]

Re: Jhatka at H sahib

The Management of this Historical Gurdwara is in the hand of those who believe offerings of bali of an animal and in this rituals. Despite several attempts to stop, no success has been in sight. Let us pray when we will be able to free our gurdwaras from the control of these government sponsored hirelings.

 

[jasbirkaleka]

Re: Jhatka at H sahib

The Management of this Historical Gurdwara is in the hand of those who believe offerings of bali of an animal and in this rituals. Despite several attempts to stop, no success has been in sight. Let us pray when we will be able to free our gurdwaras from the control of these government sponsored hirelings.

Gurfateh,
Blaming the government won"t do.
keeping Dasam Granth Sahib along with Sri Guru Granth Sahib,
Performing Arti.
Sacrificing goats and doing tilak with its blood to the shashtras,
Washing Hazoor Sahib Gurdwara with Godawari water and milk.
All these Brahamanical rituals are being performed almost from the very beginning..
Sangat that comes from all over the world never objects to these rituals but enthusiastically participate in all this tamasha.
What an abominable, pitiable and helpless situation we all are caught up in.

 

[roopsidhu]

SSA
Jasbirkaleka ji thanks for the crystal clear statement. The most hurtening and disapointing thing is that these all kurehats and brahmical rituals are performed at some Takhats (out of 5 takhats) which exposes the vast divisions in sikhs.
May waheguru get us rid of these anti-sikh elements
Roopsidhu

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I think rather than immersing in the Sikhi culture described in the SGGS, our only Guru, we tend to separate ourselves regionally in a tribal fashion and do not give a hoot if the so called cultural traditions conflict head on with the Gurmat ideals of SGGS.

Sikhi has a universal message for all humanity. We should not make this like a cracked mirror which distorts what we see in it.

It is about time we played our part as Dharmis of the Dharam called Sikhi by understanding the true meaning of IK ONG KAAR.

Tejwant Singh

 

[ranghi29]

go to the site and read the info given...it explains how the Jhatka was performed even at the times of dasam pitha Guru Gobind Singh ji...

Nihang Singh.org

 

[spnadmin]

ranghi ji

The article is very valuable in my opinion. I will be posting it soon in the SPN Sanatan Sikhism section.

One thing that it makes clear is that the tradition jatkha is ancient and pre-dates the formation of the khalsa, and was evident historically, among local societies and tribes that were not adherents of Sikhism.


However, there are many statements like this one, which is misleading.

The tradition was later reinforced by Sri Guru Gobind Singh Ji, who upon delivering baptismal vows to the Khalsa instructed;

" ‘Drink the immortal nectar and upon joining the Khalsa fold go hunting. Continually seek to perfect your use of weapons. Perform Jhatka and eat goats. Do not even go near Halal meat.’ (Pracchin Panth Parkash Steek, Part 1, Page 110)"

The Pracchin Panth Parkash Steek cannot be taken as a document that validates tilak of weapons or jatkha as a practice reinforced by any of our Gurus.

 

[roopsidhu]

SSA
Being gursikh and follower of the order of Dasam pita " guru manio granth" a sikh should not look for explaination of any sort from any other books or persons other that our etarnal guru SGGS ji. Each and every word of SGGS ji is authenticated. But all other clips statments and histoies writen by anyone else is not as athenticated as SGGS ji.
Just should noy buy anything else than orders of gurbani.
roopsidhu

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/mtsQYz23UNE" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[Randip Singh]

Ritual or no ritual you have to admire the mans swordsmanship. To cut a head off with one blow is very hard. It must have really toughened up Sikhs before they went into battle.swordfight

 

[Harry Haller]

I completely agree with going out and killing goats, and concede that it would have been hugely helpful to sikhs at the time, however, speaking personally, I cannot watch this but feel that the dignity of the animal has not been respected,. This is like a circus show, and if a non sikh was watching this, they would come to the conclusion that sikhs indulged in animal sacrifice and ritual

I am sure that sikhs of old, did not practice swordsmanship with another holding the goat, in front of a crowd of people looking for tamasha.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

harry ji..exactly..this is Tamasha. period.

 

[Scarlet Pimpernel]

Veera
I think he is getting prepared incase he is attacked by a man eating goat.

The first of the Khalsa and the first rule is compassion.

If there is no compassion there is no Sikh in attendance.It is only someone posing as a Sikh.

 

[BhagatSingh]

Randip Singh ji, I agree, and he showed a lot of patience as well. It was a small glimpse into warrior-hood and battlefields. I say small because in a battlefield, this would be happening on the MASSIVE scale, where thousands are killed. If there is so much blood with one animal, the fields must turn bright red after one whole day..


We all watched that video, thereby participating in it, as the cyber crowd... Oops...
Anyways.

We quickly blame others for being primitive and tribal and use other labels for them that we detest... let's see... ritualistic, tamasha, Brahmin... But no one dares to look inwardly in the moment we say such things. In that moment, our minds are not towards God but elsewhere.

The fact that we were not accepting of such things, of this, shows us that we are primitive, tribal, etc. And if we are primitive, and the participants in the video are primitive, then what is the difference between us and them?
​

There is no difference between us and them. Exactly! 0

Is this not the core message of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji?

"Us" and "other" are both human. Humans are and will always be, by Nature, primitive and tribal.

This realization brings tranquility to my agitated mind.


Harry ji, If I may use your words.
If aliens was watching the "Human Network",

they would come to the conclusion that humans indulge in animal sacrifice and ritual

If I may offer another perspective...
A so-called primitive man comes to visit our so-called modern age:
"These primitive humans and their animal sacrifice and other rituals are so primitive! All the animals are thrown into a tight room, and slaughtered ruthlessly.

Back home we decorate the animal with flowers and beautiful mineral colours before offering it to our Gods. We put them on a pedestal and worship the animal along with our Gods. Many people come and watch the ceremony to pay their respects to the animal. Once the animal is killed we take it's blood home and bless our tools with it, so that we use them in remembrance.

What is more respectful than to be fully attentive towards the respected?

On the other hand, these primitive humans who call themselves "modern and above all"...They slaughter thousands and thousands of God-sent animals, and each one goes unnoticed by the masses... What fools! They have no respect for anything."

(Pause)

By His Hukam things are created and destroyed. By His Hukam they interact as they do. His Hukam cannot be put into words.

The beauty of the Hukam is lost in all the name-calling.

I mean, can we ever not do what humans do? :grinningsingh: Can we stop name-calling?
A child calls another a name in the playground. He grows up and does the same to other adults and calls it "wisdom".

(meditate)

 

[Harry Haller]

Bhagatsinghji,

your most delightful posts are the ones that initially make me frown. I end up having to read them several times over, yes, I concede that everyone who has watched that video is as guilty as those present. I would like to think that I too felt disgust and dare I say it, superiority to being able to say inwards, I would never watch something so hideous and so ritual, but, if I am being honest, I watched it to the end, did I watch it like a cool policeman reviewing a case video, err no, I did not, I watched it with the same spirit everyone present watched it, curious horror!

Although this deviates slightly from the topic, I think what dear Bhagatsinghji is trying to tell us is that as sikhs we should not judge others, Guruka Singh (youtube wallah) once commented that if you focus on the bad in the bad, you will validate the badness, if you focus on the good in the bad, you will raise the bad to a level of good,

We are ignoring the crucial topic ahead of some blood and guts, end of day, as sikhs, we should not encourage any form of ritualistic worship or ceremony above thanking Waheguru for the gift of life and the chance to merge with Waheguru

 

[harmanpreetsingh]

i have heard when guru gobind singh went to banda bairagi's cottage he just cut Bakra there. The same ritual is going on to show that we are against bairagis.

please correct

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

i have heard when guru gobind singh went to banda bairagi's cottage he just cut Bakra there. The same ritual is going on to show that we are against bairagis.

please correct

YES GGS did just THAT..Bhakrey Jhatkayeh...because Banda bairagi was a what we refer to as VEGETARIAN !!! Guru Gobind Singh Ji wanted to BREAK down that SUPERSTITION of holiness vis a vis Eating roots and leaves.
GGS and his accompanying Sikhs must have cooked up a mutton dish...becasue earlier in his life Banda was indeed a HUNTER of repute but he became a Vegetarian recluse one day when he hunted a doe and found it was pregnant....he became upset when he saw the tiny baby deers fall out of the dying mother and also die in front of his eyes...

Its AMAZING how these SAKHIS about Meat cooking at Kurkshetar by Guru Nanak ji, the Meat served in Guru nanak Jis hosue at Janeau ceremony (mentioned prominently in Asa ki Var Sggs), meat served in Guru Angad Jis langgar and observed by Bhai Amardass ji, Hunting expeditions of Guru hargobind Ji Guru har rai Ji and Guru Gobind Singh ji etc etc are all sort of "Blacked out" and never mentioned at any Kirtan/Katha sessions by any babas or Kirtaniyahs like those of Baba nand Singh ishar singh annaksariahs chelas like guriqbal singh..apparently nanad and Ishar singhs never mentioned such sakhis !!! becasue its ultr vires their agenda of projecting eating roots and saag daal which the Sidhs and Yogis tried to convince Guru nanak ji to follow as well (Sidh ghost Bani SGGS)