S|kH
SPNer
Perhaps this links might help
What happens to the individual after death? | Sikhism101.com | UniversalFaith.net
What is Karma? | Sikhism101.com | UniversalFaith.net
Is there a judgement? | Sikhism101.com | UniversalFaith.net
Search in Sikhism: Reflections On Gurbani for further reading.
What happens to the individual after death? | Sikhism101.com | UniversalFaith.net
What is Karma? | Sikhism101.com | UniversalFaith.net
Is there a judgement? | Sikhism101.com | UniversalFaith.net
Search in Sikhism: Reflections On Gurbani for further reading.
Attar Singh
SPNer
- Jan 25, 2009
- 1
- 1
Death is the one thing in life we can be sure about and that is why religions have beliefs about what it means! Everything else ‘might’ happen to us: we might get married, be rich, be happy, have children, open our own business or travel the world, but the only real certainty is that we will die.
Faith and death
It is not surprising that people have always asked questions about what, if anything, happens after they die.
Although some people claim to have had ‘near-death experiences’ (NDEs), and others claim to be able to talk to the dead, or to have seen ghosts, there is no scientific proof that such experiences actually provide a glimpse into a possible afterlife. It is possible, therefore, that when people die, they simply stop living and that there is nothing beyond this life.
Ideas about what happens after death, and its connection with how life is lived on earth, is a fundamental part of all religions. The details may differ between religions, but belief in an afterlife almost always:
Sikhs believe that everything that happens is Hukam – the will of Waheguru (God).
There is a divine spark which is part of Waheguru in each person and this spark or soul is taken back to join Waheguru when a person is finally released from the cycle of rebirth. Sikhs believe that there are 8,400,000 forms of life and that many souls have to travel though a number of these before they can reach Waheguru. When something dies their soul is reborn. Only humans know the difference between right and wrong and so it is only when the soul is in a human being that there is a chance of the cycle being broken.
Sikhs believe in karma. This belief says that actions and the consequences of these actions decide whether a soul can be set loose from the cycle. Freedom from the cycle of rebirth is called mukti.
These things can stop a soul reaching mukti:
Faith and death
It is not surprising that people have always asked questions about what, if anything, happens after they die.
Although some people claim to have had ‘near-death experiences’ (NDEs), and others claim to be able to talk to the dead, or to have seen ghosts, there is no scientific proof that such experiences actually provide a glimpse into a possible afterlife. It is possible, therefore, that when people die, they simply stop living and that there is nothing beyond this life.
Ideas about what happens after death, and its connection with how life is lived on earth, is a fundamental part of all religions. The details may differ between religions, but belief in an afterlife almost always:
- helps people to make sense of life, particularly when life seems unfair or at times of suffering (their own, and others people’s)
- gives support and comfort at times of loss and bereavement
- provides a purpose to life
Sikhs believe that everything that happens is Hukam – the will of Waheguru (God).
There is a divine spark which is part of Waheguru in each person and this spark or soul is taken back to join Waheguru when a person is finally released from the cycle of rebirth. Sikhs believe that there are 8,400,000 forms of life and that many souls have to travel though a number of these before they can reach Waheguru. When something dies their soul is reborn. Only humans know the difference between right and wrong and so it is only when the soul is in a human being that there is a chance of the cycle being broken.
Sikhs believe in karma. This belief says that actions and the consequences of these actions decide whether a soul can be set loose from the cycle. Freedom from the cycle of rebirth is called mukti.
These things can stop a soul reaching mukti:
- hankar - pride
- kam - lust or desire
- karodh - anger
- lobh - greed
- manmukh - being self-centred instead of God-centred which is Gurmukh
- maya - illusion - looking at the world and ignoring Waheguru
- moh – being too attached to the world
- there is only one God – Waheguru
- worship and pray to Waheguru alone, and remember Waheguru at all times
- always work hard, and share with others
- live a truthful life
- remember that men and women are equal in the eyes of Waheguru
- the whole human race is one - distinctions of caste, colour and class are wrong
- idols, magic, omens, fasts, marks on the face and sacred threads are banned
- dress simply and modestly
- Sikh women should not wear the veil
- neither women nor men should make holes in their ears and noses
- live a married life
- put your faith in the Guru Granth Sahib
- avoid lust, anger, greed, attachment to worldly things and arrogance
- live a humble and simple life
- Jul 14, 2007
- 4,576
- 1,609
Selok Bhagat Kabir Ji touches on the death of the ego before physical death as follows:-
ਕਬੀਰ ਜਿਸੁ ਮਰਨੇ ਤੇ ਜਗੁ ਡਰੈ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨਿ ਆਨੰਦੁ ॥
कबीर जिसु मरने ते जगु डरै मेरे मनि आनंदु ॥
Kabīr jis marne ṯe jag darai mere man ānanḏ.
Kabeer, the world is afraid of death - that death fills my mind with bliss.
ਮਰਨੇ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਪੂਰਨੁ ਪਰਮਾਨੰਦੁ ॥੨੨॥
मरने ही ते पाईऐ पूरनु परमानंदु ॥२२॥
Marne hī ṯe pā▫ī▫ai pūran parmānanḏ. ||22||
It is only by death that perfect, supreme bliss is obtained. ||22||
......................................................................................
ਕਬੀਰ ਮਰਤਾ ਮਰਤਾ ਜਗੁ ਮੂਆ ਮਰਿ ਭੀ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਕੋਇ ॥
कबीर मरता मरता जगु मूआ मरि भी न जानिआ कोइ ॥
Kabīr marṯā marṯā jag mū▫ā mar bẖī na jāni▫ā ko▫e.
Kabeer, dying, dying, the whole world has to die, and yet, none know how to die.
ਐਸੇ ਮਰਨੇ ਜੋ ਮਰੈ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਮਰਨਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੨੯॥
ऐसे मरने जो मरै बहुरि न मरना होइ ॥२९॥
Aise marne jo marai bahur na marnā ho▫e. ||29||
Let those who die, die such a death, that they shall never have to die again. ||29||
ਕਬੀਰ ਜਿਸੁ ਮਰਨੇ ਤੇ ਜਗੁ ਡਰੈ ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨਿ ਆਨੰਦੁ ॥
कबीर जिसु मरने ते जगु डरै मेरे मनि आनंदु ॥
Kabīr jis marne ṯe jag darai mere man ānanḏ.
Kabeer, the world is afraid of death - that death fills my mind with bliss.
ਮਰਨੇ ਹੀ ਤੇ ਪਾਈਐ ਪੂਰਨੁ ਪਰਮਾਨੰਦੁ ॥੨੨॥
मरने ही ते पाईऐ पूरनु परमानंदु ॥२२॥
Marne hī ṯe pā▫ī▫ai pūran parmānanḏ. ||22||
It is only by death that perfect, supreme bliss is obtained. ||22||
......................................................................................
ਕਬੀਰ ਮਰਤਾ ਮਰਤਾ ਜਗੁ ਮੂਆ ਮਰਿ ਭੀ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਆ ਕੋਇ ॥
कबीर मरता मरता जगु मूआ मरि भी न जानिआ कोइ ॥
Kabīr marṯā marṯā jag mū▫ā mar bẖī na jāni▫ā ko▫e.
Kabeer, dying, dying, the whole world has to die, and yet, none know how to die.
ਐਸੇ ਮਰਨੇ ਜੋ ਮਰੈ ਬਹੁਰਿ ਨ ਮਰਨਾ ਹੋਇ ॥੨੯॥
ऐसे मरने जो मरै बहुरि न मरना होइ ॥२९॥
Aise marne jo marai bahur na marnā ho▫e. ||29||
Let those who die, die such a death, that they shall never have to die again. ||29||
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Krishnamurti!
No one has mentioned him in my little world for more than 20 years. You are a lot younger than I am. When did you first find out about Krishnamurti?
If you don't want to write it here, you could tell me on Visitor Messages. I am so curious to know. One of my closest friends was a devotee ...we lost touch. I could never understand what Krishnamurti was talking about , but nonetheless respect him.
No one has mentioned him in my little world for more than 20 years. You are a lot younger than I am. When did you first find out about Krishnamurti?
If you don't want to write it here, you could tell me on Visitor Messages. I am so curious to know. One of my closest friends was a devotee ...we lost touch. I could never understand what Krishnamurti was talking about , but nonetheless respect him.
Krishnamurti!
No one has mentioned him in my little world for more than 20 years. You are a lot younger than I am. When did you first find out about Krishnamurti?
:happy: YES that is Jiddu Krishnamurthi, a great thinker of our time.
I don’t want to hijack the thread, but I will just post it here for everyone
I am surprised how very few people know of him…it’s the same in my immediate network. An absolute shame… (maybe we should have separate thread to arouse awareness of his philosophy)
True story;
I was introduced to his works via an uncle/fate, about 1 year back, who had his book in his study/library. I just read the title, it was called “Flight of the Eagle”, it just captured my attention (I thought it was some trash literature I could waste time on…I was not expecting philosophy). So, I just laxly picked it up and started browsing through the pages and liked what little I read (I took it home with me and read it from page to page at least twice…it was a small book). I am not a ‘devotee’ (I think Mr. K wouldn’t approve of such a relationship)…but I am fond of his work. It is sometimes difficult to understand but once you get the gist of it, it does make you feel ‘grand?’/ relaxed/ informed.
The second book I read of his was “The Awakening of Intelligence” (which, by the way, is available online) as an e book on scribd.com (as are many others)...(but i hate reading on a computer screen)
Thanks to the wonders of youtube I can actually listen to him. He has very kind words and is phenomenal in relaying his thoughts (without paper)…an absolute joy to listen to. Always calms me down and his words stimulate plenty of thought. The awakening of intelligence is actually just excerpts from a discourse/lecture/sitting (if I remember correctly)….which is something that amazes me…an entire book from a live ‘session?’ of him speaking and then taking questions (And if you are familiar with his philosophy then a person comes to an understanding why he did everything in this setting).
There are some books that I did not like of his…but I won’t delve into my opinion on them here.
okey dokey, im out aad ji.
C h e e r s
Life is the begining. Death is the end. Sayonara. Adeus, Adios, Tchau.
No one becomes alive after dying. We all get recycled. Dust to dust.
No one becomes alive after dying. We all get recycled. Dust to dust.
not if you freeze your body and wait for an advanced civilization or alien race to come and resurrect you!
its called cryonics...
thats what im saving up for.
- Jul 14, 2007
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Our body is NOT us. It is just a biological vehicle/tool for us to adjust to the co{censored}r vibrations of the physical school via the 5 senses working thru the 9 doors/openings. Even the brain is not us. It is a processor which transforms and sends sensory signals to subtle faculties of the mind.
Gurbani asks us a challenging question:-
Ang 152
ਗਉੜੀ ਮਹਲਾ ੧ ॥
गउड़ी महला १ ॥
Ga▫oṛī mėhlā 1.
Gauree, First Mehl:
ਪਉਣੈ ਪਾਣੀ ਅਗਨੀ ਕਾ ਮੇਲੁ ॥
पउणै पाणी अगनी का मेलु ॥
Pa▫uṇai pāṇī agnī kā mel.
The union of air, water and fire -
ਚੰਚਲ ਚਪਲ ਬੁਧਿ ਕਾ ਖੇਲੁ ॥
चंचल चपल बुधि का खेलु ॥
Cẖancẖal cẖapal buḏẖ kā kẖel.
the body is the play-thing of the fickle and unsteady intellect.
ਨਉ ਦਰਵਾਜੇ ਦਸਵਾ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
नउ दरवाजे दसवा दुआरु ॥
Na▫o ḏarvāje ḏasvā ḏu▫ār.
It has nine doors, and then there is the Tenth Gate.
ਬੁਝੁ ਰੇ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਏਹੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੁ ॥੧॥
बुझु रे गिआनी एहु बीचारु ॥१॥
Bujẖ re gi▫ānī ehu bīcẖār. ||1||
Reflect upon this and understand it, O wise one. ||1||
ਕਥਤਾ ਬਕਤਾ ਸੁਨਤਾ ਸੋਈ ॥
कथता बकता सुनता सोई ॥
Kathṯā bakṯā sunṯā so▫ī.
The Lord is the One who speaks, teaches and listens.
ਆਪੁ ਬੀਚਾਰੇ ਸੁ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਹੋਈ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
आपु बीचारे सु गिआनी होई ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Āp bīcẖāre so gi▫ānī ho▫ī. ||1|| rahā▫o.
One who contemplates his own self is truly wise. ||1||Pause||
ਦੇਹੀ ਮਾਟੀ ਬੋਲੈ ਪਉਣੁ ॥
देही माटी बोलै पउणु ॥
Ḏehī mātī bolai pa▫uṇ.
The body is dust; the wind speaks through it.
ਬੁਝੁ ਰੇ ਗਿਆਨੀ ਮੂਆ ਹੈ ਕਉਣੁ ॥
बुझु रे गिआनी मूआ है कउणु ॥
Bujẖ re gi▫ānī mū▫ā hai ka▫uṇ.
Understand, O wise one, who has died.
ਮੂਈ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਬਾਦੁ ਅਹੰਕਾਰੁ ॥
मूई सुरति बादु अहंकारु ॥
Mū▫ī suraṯ bāḏ ahaʼnkār.
Awareness, conflict and ego have died,
ਓਹੁ ਨ ਮੂਆ ਜੋ ਦੇਖਣਹਾਰੁ ॥੨॥
ओहु न मूआ जो देखणहारु ॥२॥
Oh na mū▫ā jo ḏekẖaṇhār. ||2||
but the One who sees does not die. ||2||
ਜੈ ਕਾਰਣਿ ਤਟਿ ਤੀਰਥ ਜਾਹੀ ॥
जै कारणि तटि तीरथ जाही ॥
Jai kāraṇ ṯat ṯirath jāhī.
For the sake of it, you journey to sacred shrines and holy rivers;
ਰਤਨ ਪਦਾਰਥ ਘਟ ਹੀ ਮਾਹੀ ॥
रतन पदारथ घट ही माही ॥
Raṯan paḏārath gẖat hī māhī.
but this priceless jewel is within your own heart.
ਪੜਿ ਪੜਿ ਪੰਡਿਤੁ ਬਾਦੁ ਵਖਾਣੈ ॥
पड़ि पड़ि पंडितु बादु वखाणै ॥
Paṛ paṛ pandiṯ bāḏ vakẖāṇai.
The Pandits, the religious scholars, read and read endlessly; they stir up arguments and controversies,
ਭੀਤਰਿ ਹੋਦੀ ਵਸਤੁ ਨ ਜਾਣੈ ॥੩॥
भीतरि होदी वसतु न जाणै ॥३॥
Bẖīṯar hoḏī vasaṯ na jāṇai. ||3||
but they do not know the secret deep within. ||3||
ਹਉ ਨ ਮੂਆ ਮੇਰੀ ਮੁਈ ਬਲਾਇ ॥
हउ न मूआ मेरी मुई बलाइ ॥
Ha▫o na mū▫ā merī mu▫ī balā▫e.
I have not died - that evil nature within me has died.
ਓਹੁ ਨ ਮੂਆ ਜੋ ਰਹਿਆ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
ओहु न मूआ जो रहिआ समाइ ॥
Oh na mū▫ā jo rahi▫ā samā▫e.
The One who is pervading everywhere does not die.
ਕਹੁ ਨਾਨਕ ਗੁਰਿ ਬ੍ਰਹਮੁ ਦਿਖਾਇਆ ॥
कहु नानक गुरि ब्रहमु दिखाइआ ॥
Kaho Nānak gur barahm ḏikẖā▫i▫ā.
Says Nanak, the Guru has revealed God to me,
ਮਰਤਾ ਜਾਤਾ ਨਦਰਿ ਨ ਆਇਆ ॥੪॥੪॥
मरता जाता नदरि न आइआ ॥४॥४॥
Marṯā jāṯā naḏar na ā▫i▫ā. ||4||4||
and now I see that there is no such thing as birth or death. ||4||4||
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soniadatta_cc
SPNer
- Jul 28, 2006
- 17
- 0
This means that we have 1 life and once we are born as human we still have chance to be born as animals? Also, does this mean that our gurus also went through 84 lak rebirths before they became human form? Also, this raises a question on Evolution vs creation. Did God not create man, did he create a soul and it went 84 lakh lives to become a man? How do you explain this phenomenon..
Santokh Singh ji,
Guru Fateh.
One request, when you quote Gurbani, please put the panna(page) number because according to me this transliteration is a bit misleading.
Thanks
Tejwant Singh
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Santokh Singh ji, (Namjap)
I have found the shabad.It is on SGGS 152.
Allow me to add my 2cent worth.
This Shabad has nothing to with Life after Death as the title of this thread. It is talking about Spiritual death- Me-ism.
I am sorry to say that most of the transliterations are misleading and do injustice to this beautiful Gurbani. Sant Singh Khalsa's transliteration in the guise of interpretation is worse than many others available.
Before we indulge in this further, which I would love to, I would like you to check Sri Guru Granth Darpan by Prof. Sahib Singh first and share with us what you understand from it about this Shabad so we can talk about it.
You should also check it for studying Bhagat Kabir's saloks.
No offense intended.
PAGE 152 - Punjabi Translation of Siri Guru Granth Sahib (Sri Guru Granth Darpan).
Thanks and Regards
Tejwant Singh
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What I believe Namjap ji was pointing out with this shabad was that for a SIKH there is no death. To the Guru's Sikh death does not come; the Lord has liberated the soul.
Life after death is only questioned by the once that are caught up in this world. For the Guru's Sikh this question does not come to mind. The Guru has arranged the disciples affairs and this magnificant world is only a play, while birth and death play the roles as pleasure and pain.
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- Jul 14, 2007
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ਗੂਜਰੀ ॥
गूजरी ॥
Gūjrī.
Goojaree:
ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਲਛਮੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥
अंति कालि जो लछमी सिमरै ऐसी चिंता महि जे मरै ॥
Anṯ kāl jo lacẖẖmī simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai.
At the very last moment, one who thinks of wealth, and dies in such thoughts,
ਸਰਪ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੧॥
सरप जोनि वलि वलि अउतरै ॥१॥
Sarap jon val val a▫uṯarai. ||1||
shall be reincarnated over and over again, in the form of serpents. ||1||
ਅਰੀ ਬਾਈ ਗੋਬਿਦ ਨਾਮੁ ਮਤਿ ਬੀਸਰੈ ॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
अरी बाई गोबिद नामु मति बीसरै ॥ रहाउ ॥
Arī bā▫ī gobiḏ nām maṯ bīsrai. Rahā▫o.
O sister, do not forget the Name of the Lord of the Universe. ||Pause||
ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਇਸਤ੍ਰੀ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥
अंति कालि जो इसत्री सिमरै ऐसी चिंता महि जे मरै ॥
Anṯ kāl jo isṯarī simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai.
At the very last moment, he who thinks of women, and dies in such thoughts,
ਬੇਸਵਾ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੨॥
बेसवा जोनि वलि वलि अउतरै ॥२॥
Besvā jon val val a▫uṯarai. ||2||
shall be reincarnated over and over again as a prostitute. ||2||
ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਲੜਿਕੇ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥
अंति कालि जो लड़िके सिमरै ऐसी चिंता महि जे मरै ॥
Anṯ kāl jo laṛike simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai.
At the very last moment, one who thinks of his children, and dies in such thoughts,
ਸੂਕਰ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੩॥
सूकर जोनि वलि वलि अउतरै ॥३॥
Sūkar jon val val a▫uṯarai. ||3||
shall be reincarnated over and over again as a pig. ||3||
ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਜੋ ਮੰਦਰ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥
अंति कालि जो मंदर सिमरै ऐसी चिंता महि जे मरै ॥
Anṯ kāl jo manḏar simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai.
At the very last moment, one who thinks of mansions, and dies in such thoughts,
ਪ੍ਰੇਤ ਜੋਨਿ ਵਲਿ ਵਲਿ ਅਉਤਰੈ ॥੪॥
प्रेत जोनि वलि वलि अउतरै ॥४॥
Pareṯ jon val val a▫uṯarai. ||4||
shall be reincarnated over and over again as a goblin. ||4||
ਅੰਤਿ ਕਾਲਿ ਨਾਰਾਇਣੁ ਸਿਮਰੈ ਐਸੀ ਚਿੰਤਾ ਮਹਿ ਜੇ ਮਰੈ ॥
अंति कालि नाराइणु सिमरै ऐसी चिंता महि जे मरै ॥
Anṯ kāl nārā▫iṇ simrai aisī cẖinṯā mėh je marai.
At the very last moment, one who thinks of the Lord, and dies in such thoughts,
ਬਦਤਿ ਤਿਲੋਚਨੁ ਤੇ ਨਰ ਮੁਕਤਾ ਪੀਤੰਬਰੁ ਵਾ ਕੇ ਰਿਦੈ ਬਸੈ ॥੫॥੨॥
बदति तिलोचनु ते नर मुकता पीत्मबरु वा के रिदै बसै ॥५॥२॥
Baḏaṯ ṯilocẖan ṯe nar mukṯā pīṯambar vā ke riḏai basai. ||5||2||
says Trilochan, that man shall be liberated; the Lord shall abide in his heart. ||5||2||
- Jul 14, 2007
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Page 29, Line 1
ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਤਰਸਦੇ ਜਿਸੁ ਮੇਲੇ ਸੋ ਮਿਲੈ ਹਰਿ ਆਇ ॥
लख चउरासीह तरसदे जिसु मेले सो मिलै हरि आइ ॥
Lakẖ cẖa▫orāsīh ṯarasḏe jis mele so milai har ā▫e.
The 8.4 million species of beings all yearn for the Lord. Those whom He unites, come to be united with the Lord.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
Page 1416, Line 4
ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਮੇਦਨੀ ਤਿਸਨਾ ਜਲਤੀ ਕਰੇ ਪੁਕਾਰ ॥
लख चउरासीह मेदनी तिसना जलती करे पुकार ॥
Lakẖ cẖa▫orāsīh meḏnī ṯisnā jalṯī kare pukār.
The 8.4 million species of beings burn in desire and cry in pain.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਤਰਸਦੇ ਜਿਸੁ ਮੇਲੇ ਸੋ ਮਿਲੈ ਹਰਿ ਆਇ ॥
लख चउरासीह तरसदे जिसु मेले सो मिलै हरि आइ ॥
Lakẖ cẖa▫orāsīh ṯarasḏe jis mele so milai har ā▫e.
The 8.4 million species of beings all yearn for the Lord. Those whom He unites, come to be united with the Lord.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
Page 1416, Line 4
ਲਖ ਚਉਰਾਸੀਹ ਮੇਦਨੀ ਤਿਸਨਾ ਜਲਤੀ ਕਰੇ ਪੁਕਾਰ ॥
लख चउरासीह मेदनी तिसना जलती करे पुकार ॥
Lakẖ cẖa▫orāsīh meḏnī ṯisnā jalṯī kare pukār.
The 8.4 million species of beings burn in desire and cry in pain.
Guru Amar Das - view Shabad/Paurhi/Salok
I beleive these figures are used as Metaphors.
"84 lakh joon" was already well known among the general populace..and Guru Ji used the phrase as to mean "ALL"..EVERY ONE...Just using the phrase doesnt necessarily mean that Gurbani is TIED up to this figure.../ LIMITED to the exact 84 lakh...tomorrow Scinece may come up with proof that there are less or more species..it is possible..and we know that GURBANI doesnt lie/is never wrong.
Even in general use we sometimes say..there were lakhs of people there...actually no one really means exactly 100,000..10,000,000 or 100,000,000.
IT is a huge waste of time arguing about these joons when Gurbani states so emphatically that THIS HUMAN JANAM is only ONCE..DURLABH.. Gobind Milan ke eh teri bareah..etc etc etc SO MANY TIMES. Its like a student who is being repeatedly told to NOT waste time and study for THIS ONE EXAM..and the student keeps asking..will there be other exams..can i repeat it...what happens if i fail..will i get another chance..what about the 84 lakh students who failed earlier..blah blah blh and then FAILS TO STUDY...For the ONE EXAM that Guru Ji stressed REPEATEDLY. I am sure we dont want to be that student...all that worrying about the 84 lakh joons wont help at all when we FAIL in Human janam....:welcome::happy::yes:
"84 lakh joon" was already well known among the general populace..and Guru Ji used the phrase as to mean "ALL"..EVERY ONE...Just using the phrase doesnt necessarily mean that Gurbani is TIED up to this figure.../ LIMITED to the exact 84 lakh...tomorrow Scinece may come up with proof that there are less or more species..it is possible..and we know that GURBANI doesnt lie/is never wrong.
Even in general use we sometimes say..there were lakhs of people there...actually no one really means exactly 100,000..10,000,000 or 100,000,000.
IT is a huge waste of time arguing about these joons when Gurbani states so emphatically that THIS HUMAN JANAM is only ONCE..DURLABH.. Gobind Milan ke eh teri bareah..etc etc etc SO MANY TIMES. Its like a student who is being repeatedly told to NOT waste time and study for THIS ONE EXAM..and the student keeps asking..will there be other exams..can i repeat it...what happens if i fail..will i get another chance..what about the 84 lakh students who failed earlier..blah blah blh and then FAILS TO STUDY...For the ONE EXAM that Guru Ji stressed REPEATEDLY. I am sure we dont want to be that student...all that worrying about the 84 lakh joons wont help at all when we FAIL in Human janam....:welcome::happy:
:yes:
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