Arts/Society Marrying Cousins

[kds1980]

When I started surfing sikh sites I found sikhs from rural punjab don't even marry within their pind forget about marrying cousins.But I was raised with the beleif That marrying from mothers side is totally allowed.It happened a lot in my father's(Arora) side and in mothers(Khatri) side too.What SPN sangat thinks about these kind of marriegs?

 

[Archived_member7]

it may create genetic issues ..such marriages are common in the Southern part of India..

 

[Archived_member7]

I have known some Khatri Bhatias who also follow this tradition..

 

[spnadmin]

Cousin marriage is in some societies allowed with one side of your family but not the other (the mother's side, but not the father's - the father's side but not the mother's) Cousin marrige is not uncommon within traditional societies around the world. If the culture is patriarchal, then your aunts/uncles on your father's side are much like mothers/fathers. Their children are much like sisters/brothers. AND therefore you would not marry in your father's line. But, if the culture is matriarchal, the exact reverse is true. Aunts/uncles on your mothers side are much like your mother/father. Their children are like sisters/brothers. And therefore you would not marry in your mother's line.

Incest is defined culturally not medically. Within the US today each state decides how close sanguinaly, or by blood, marriage partners can be. Con-sanguinal cousins might be the children of aunts and uncles and therefore off-limits, or some other rule will be applied depending on the state.

Also marriage between cousins is not as dangerous as people think. That too is part of the lore of culture. Over time cousin marriage has built up into something DANGEROUS. The original reasons for incest taboos had nothing to do with genetics or sex. These began a cultural rules that defined who a man and a woman might marry in order to know which family their children would belong to -- so that the inheritance of property, animals, wealth would not become confused and lead to conflicts.

From a very funny article about cousin marriage in Britain:

“The bottom line is that unless you know there is a genetic defect in the family there’s no reason why you shouldn’t marry your cousin.

“Any two people randomly have, roughly, a two per cent chance of having a child that has some kind of genetic abnormality. If first cousins marry then it’s roughly four per cent. So one side says ‘that’s doubling the risk’ while the other says ’96 per cent of people aren’t having a problem’. You can look at it both ways,” she says.

ANU News Kissing cousins: Studying historic inbreeding in rural English villages

And now a serious article from a legal news source, FindLaw
A panoply of state laws say cousin marriages are taboo. But a new report in the Journal of Genetic Counseling, described in the New York Times last week, might send state lawmakers back to work revising their incest laws.


The report concludes that cousins can have children together without running much greater risk than a "normal" couple of their children having genetic abnormalities. Accordingly, the report potentially undermines the primary justification for laws that prevent first cousins from marrying or engaging in sexual relations with one another.

...
According to the recent report, children of unrelated parents have a 3 percent to 4 percent chance of being born with a serious birth defect. Children of first cousins have only a slighter higher risk--roughly a 4 percent to 7 percent chance. Thus, the ban on cousin marriages will not go very far toward the general problem of preventing birth defects. CNN.com - FindLaw Forum: A genetic report should cause a rethinking of incest laws - April 9, 2002

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

wow....i didnt know that !!
Anyway forget about the pind....i know for a fact that "GOt" marriages ( that is GILl and GILL or Dhillon with DHILLON) are not allowed either because the GILLS are all related ??:happy:

 

[spnadmin]

Gyani ji

What exactly does "salimpsa" mean. I read that in the Hindu marriage act. If two people are salimpsa they cannot marry. There was a paragraph or two explaining this, but I couldn't understand the explanation very much

 

[gitika_kaur]

well we are living in a modern era and now you are talking abt pind. yuck! In my opinion if family doesnt create any problem then we can get married in relatives like mother relations or father relation.In sikh this is a comon issue to get married in relatives

if i have hurt a'one emotions then sorry
Thanks and Regards
Gitika kaur Khalsa

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Gitika Kaur Ji..the world is a pind ?? With IT, Internet..Airplanes and SPN..YES the World is a Pind... apologies.:welcome:

 

[gitika_kaur]

Well i respect your thought coz your are very mch elder from you. But everyone has a different oppinion and i can say generation gap also. oops! sorry to use abstract language
bhul chuk maaf karna ji

Thanks and Regards
Gtika Kaur Khalsa

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Gyani ji

What exactly does "salimpsa" mean. I read that in the Hindu marriage act. If two people are salimpsa they cannot marry. There was a paragraph or two explaining this, but I couldn't understand the explanation very much

AAD JIO,
GURFATEH.

I am afraid i have never heard of this word.. I only know of SAPINDA - a prohibited relationship - example would be Father-in-Law marrying his daughter-in-law..or mum-in-law trying to marry her son-in-law...three genrations of blood ties on mums side..up to grandmother and five generations back in Fahers side up to GREAT grandfatehr are sapinda too..so a Grandfather cant be marrying his grand daughter !!.
I have a copy of the Hindu marriage Act. Couldnt find any salimpsa prohibitions..

Perhaps if you cut and paste the Salimpsa paras i can see if i get what it is...Maybe my copy fo the HMA is outdated...

Off the record there is something called a MANGLIK...that is an astrological sign...and the Manglik CANNOT marry or the hubby/bride will durely DIE soon - maybe on the hoenymoon night itself...BUT this is beleif not under the ACT. Apologies for not being much help

 

[Randip Singh]

When I started surfing sikh sites I found sikhs from rural punjab don't even marry within their pind forget about marrying cousins.But I was raised with the beleif That marrying from mothers side is totally allowed.It happened a lot in my father's(Arora) side and in mothers(Khatri) side too.What SPN sangat thinks about these kind of marriegs?

For me, I was told, you cannot marry anyone of my own surname, or my mother maiden name, or anyone from my village.

It causes genetic problems long term.

I don't think there is anything specific on this in Sikhi.

 

[spnadmin]

Not likely to cause long-term genetic problems, Randip ji. The belief that cousin marriage causes a serious risk of genetic problems is next to a myth.

[SIZE=-1]April 3, 2002[/SIZE]
No Genetic Reason to Discourage Cousin Marriage, Study Finds

By DENISE GRADY

ontrary to widely held beliefs and longstanding taboos in America, first cousins can safely have children together, without a great risk of birth defects or genetic disease, scientists are reporting today. They say there is no biological reason to discourage cousins from marrying.

First cousins are somewhat more likely than unrelated parents to have a child with a serious birth defect, but scientists say the risk is not large. In the general population, the risk that a child will be born with a major birth defect, like spina fida, is 3 to 4 percent; to that background risk, first cousins must add another 1.7 to 2.8 percentage points, the researchers said.

Although the increase represents almost a doubling of the risk, since the background risk is small to begin with, the result is still not considered large enough to discourage people from having children, geneticists say. And they point out that no one questions the right of other people with far higher levels of risk to have children. For example, people with Huntington's disease, a severe neurological disorder, have a 50 percent chance of passing the disease to their children.
The researchers, convened by the National Society of Genetic Counselors, based their conclusions on a review of six major studies conducted from 1965 to August 2000, involving many thousands of births.


Read the article at this source; No Genetic Reason to Discourage Cousin Marriage, Study Finds

 

[spnadmin]

kds ji

A few posts back, I reported

Cousin marriage is in some societies allowed with one side of your family but not the other (the mother's side, but not the father's - the father's side but not the mother's) Cousin marrige is not uncommon within traditional societies around the world. If the culture is patriarchal, then your aunts/uncles on your father's side are much like mothers/fathers. Their children are much like sisters/brothers. AND therefore you would not marry in your father's line. But, if the culture is matriarchal, the exact reverse is true. Aunts/uncles on your mothers side are much like your mother/father. Their children are like sisters/brothers. And therefore you would not marry in your mother's line.

Your family experience is consistent with what sociologists have observed and noted regarding patriarchal family systems.

 

[Archived_Member_19]

i think rather than Sikhism, it is more of a Jatt thing

 

[Tejwant Singh]

It may be genetically safe, morally accepted but my question is why not expand the horizons and learn the traditions and customs of others outside the clans and immediate families? Why not extend the network of goodness beyond the tribal minded fences?

The fact is that due to the invasions of India through Punjab by many cultures for thousands of years, all of us who are Punjabis must have had mixed breeds and blood from the people coming from distant lands.

Tejwant Singh

 

[Rani Sandhu]

Well back in days, ppl married within families b/c ppl lived in small tribes, they had no choice but to marry within the family.....then came along the dowry system....then again...ppl married within the family b/c they didn't want to give dowry away to a strange family...also they felt that they know the family well....muslims still practice it......some parts of southern India as well...<< in the southern parts of India, they only marry the father side ...not the mother....

But most sikhs, the ones I know..lol don't marry within family....they don't even marry if they both have the same last name.....or if they were brought up in the same 'pind' b/c they believe maybe some how the ancestors were related ....since societies spread from small tribes.......so they think even if they marry from same pind...they could be some how related...........that's the same reason they use if ppl have the same last name...

In my opinion....if you marry in the family...you are messing up the genes....it is not good in the long run.........after 2-3 generations....kids are born with birth defects.......also marrying your cousin is marrying your bro/or sis....in my opinion it is disgusting.......you have to draw a line somewhere......leave the cousin alone and marry outside of the family........

R@ni

 

[spnadmin]

It may be genetically safe, morally accepted but my question is why not expand the horizons and learn the traditions and customs of others outside the clans and immediate families? Why not extend the network of goodness beyond the tribal minded fences?

The fact is that due to the invasions of India through Punjab by many cultures for thousands of years, all of us who are Punjabis must have had mixed breeds and blood from the people coming from distant lands.

Tejwant Singh

Tejwant ji

If the genetic pool is diverse, as you point out is true for the Punjab, then the risk of genetic birth defects lowers. And your wonderful idea -- of spreading the goodness? That is something Margaret Mead the anthropologist herself claimed.

 

[mahanbir singh]

I know about the marriage of cousins in arora sikh family where boy got married to the daughter of his real bhua- sister of his father. they used to meet every year when teens. The idea never occured to them. it was the grandmother- dadi of boy & nani of girl who suggested this marriage.
it has been going very strong for 40 years. they have wonderful children.
From my knowledge of veterinary science i know that inbreeding in chickens have produced fantastic results. may be it should not be carried down the track for genetic abnormalities as it happens in parsies but i have seen fantastic parsi families and they dont care about genetic fear. they love life & their families. As the times are chaning we must change with times. Change means move. movement causes life. if u dont move u die. Every thing is changing.Man accepts every other change of new technology but is foolish not to accept new thoughts of spirtuality.all religions think what has been written is ultimate truth. May God give us the wisdom to listen to our feelings which contain the truth & not our minds which contain the opeinions of others.

 

[kds1980]

I know about the marriage of cousins in arora sikh family where boy got married to the daughter of his real bhua- sister of his father. they used to meet every year when teens. The idea never occured to them. it was the grandmother- dadi of boy & nani of girl who suggested this marriage.
it has been going very strong for 40 years. they have wonderful children.
From my knowledge of veterinary science i know that inbreeding in chickens have produced fantastic results. may be it should not be carried down the track for genetic abnormalities as it happens in parsies but i have seen fantastic parsi families and they dont care about genetic fear. they love life & their families. As the times are chaning we must change with times. Change means move. movement causes life. if u dont move u die. Every thing is changing.Man accepts every other change of new technology but is foolish not to accept new thoughts of spirtuality.all religions think what has been written is ultimate truth. May God give us the wisdom to listen to our feelings which contain the truth & not our minds which contain the opeinions of others.

Marriage between cousins are quite successful from social point of view.The reason is that
both families know plus and minus points of Boy and girl.While in Other arrange marriage's
Truck Load of lies are involved from both sides.

 

[Randip Singh]

Not likely to cause long-term genetic problems, Randip ji. The belief that cousin marriage causes a serious risk of genetic problems is next to a myth.

[SIZE=-1]April 3, 2002[/SIZE]
No Genetic Reason to Discourage Cousin Marriage, Study Finds

By DENISE GRADY

ontrary to widely held beliefs and longstanding taboos in America, first cousins can safely have children together, without a great risk of birth defects or genetic disease, scientists are reporting today. They say there is no biological reason to discourage cousins from marrying.

First cousins are somewhat more likely than unrelated parents to have a child with a serious birth defect, but scientists say the risk is not large. In the general population, the risk that a child will be born with a major birth defect, like spina fida, is 3 to 4 percent; to that background risk, first cousins must add another 1.7 to 2.8 percentage points, the researchers said.

Although the increase represents almost a doubling of the risk, since the background risk is small to begin with, the result is still not considered large enough to discourage people from having children, geneticists say. And they point out that no one questions the right of other people with far higher levels of risk to have children. For example, people with Huntington's disease, a severe neurological disorder, have a 50 percent chance of passing the disease to their children.
The researchers, convened by the National Society of Genetic Counselors, based their conclusions on a review of six major studies conducted from 1965 to August 2000, involving many thousands of births.


Read the article at this source; No Genetic Reason to Discourage Cousin Marriage, Study Finds

I have also read that the more the diverse the gene pool the bigger and stronger the off spring.