Last whine from me!
Several translations of the pauree have now been posted so that (hint) the meanings of words in context can be shared and dsicussed.
What is the meaning of any word or tuk in the context of the entire pauree? Let's focus on your decision to stick with the issue of sin/mistake. Whether a word means is a "sin" or a "mistake" in translation makes a big difference when one goes from one language to another. So it is not a matter of equivalents where one can mix and match. In English a sin is very different from a mistake and carries a different verbal load altogether. And this can be said for any language. In Italian a "sin" is sbaglio - it carries the sense of a mark or stain against the spiritual purity of the individual, and focuses on an inner state. In English, a "sin" is a transgression, a wrong deed, and focuses on actions, actions which must be punished. Much graver in English? Or graver in Italian? This pauree is in Punjabi, but the meaning in Punjabi has to be found in the right choice of words in the English language because we have been talking mostly about English TRANSLATIONS.
welcomekaur
So it does no good to fixate on what the specific Punjabi word/words/phrases mean if we cannot get from the Punjabi to the English equivalent that conveys the message of Guru's Shabad. My frustration all along has been that a verbo a verbo translation, as Cicero said, or literal translation of Punjabi into English gives a wrong result. In fact the shift in attention to individual words served only as a digression from the main point of the topic.
welcomekaur
The only reason I even became involved on this thread was when it was so obvious that Naam was mistaken for Logos - a few pages back -- which it is not. And Naam was explained as coming from and then manifesting from Hukam/Ordinance --- which it does not. And Naam was viewed as something distinct from Hukam, which it is not. So what gives? Professor Sahib ji has helped us understand that the "literal" will not help. Therefore we have to get to a fulsome understanding of word and tuk in English, and that will not happen pecking at one word at a time. welcomekaur
It would be good to go back to the entire pauree 19 so that the significance of the individual words in Punjabi are understood in context by way of an explanation in English in context.
welcomekaur
That is what makes translation hard to do. We should not get hung up on one on one matching of words. The translation of Sant Singh Khalsa MD, imho, of both tuk and shabad, truly misses the boat.
