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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sikh80" data-source="post: 72667" data-attributes="member: 5290">Re: Nanak is the Guru; Nanak is the Lord Himself.They consider mortal being jev who is made of 24 tat vadi(elements) - 5 gyan indrai's/5 senses, 5 karam indrai, 5 asthol (tat)elements, 5 sukhsaum(subtle) elements, man(mind), tridha , ahankar, mani tat and pardan is equal to 24 elements which human is made of. 25th element is jev atma(soul). They consider jev atma to be akaal purkh which is not correct. Jev atma is not paratma(supreme soul) because of antish karan(acculmations of thoughts, desires, karmas). Gyani further stressed, when jiv atma has to face death(kaal) and be in fear. Jiv atma(individualstic soul) screams in pain. Then how jev atma this mortal being can be purkh. A person who is feared cannot be purkh(paratma) because he is bhau(fear) not Nirbhau. Guru ji said, that's why i had to add Nirbhau after karta purkh because only god is free from fear. Sidhas were satisfied, and further asked why there was a need of addition of nirvair- Guru ji replied by giving example of harnakash. When he came in this world. He started claiming - Jalaie Harnakash, Thalie Harnakash (I am god), that i m not fear from anyone. People thought of him as a God however he didn't have all god's(sargun) attributes in him only he claimed he was nirbhau, Nirvair and that was not enough. Guru ji then gave another example of ravan. Even he claimed to be fearless(Nirbhau) by getting occult powers. These people on top of that, they start being rebellion against god's creation like for example- if someone didn't them worship they would be their enemy. Now if they were enemy, how could they have nirvair(without hate) attribute in them which is opposite to Vair(dushmani). Sidhas were satisfied with Guru ji explanation but asked mantar could have ended until Nirvair. Why there was need for "akaal" ?? Guru ji said, listen saints (sant/mahatamas) can have nirbhau/nirvair attributes because of high enlighten visions towards creation. </blockquote>

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