One Step Forward, One Step Backward , You Don't End Up Anywhere

[Seeker2013]

I sometimes feel like I should strive to go back to my home : god , the home of all of us.
After all, the world seems like a bundle of sufferings , isn't it ? Wherever you look , people suffering. Sufferings at physical , mental , financial , social , political levels.
Isn't it better to cut the chase and never having to come back in this world ?

We have been hearing of "param-anand" (the greatest bliss) for so long and we also have been told its incomprehensible, saints experienced it but they couldn't describe it.
It can't be described but can only be experienced and to experience is it to be struck with awe . You have also been told that paramanand is result of cessation of all desires , ego , attachment, greed and anger . It is merging of individual soul back into god who is 'sat-chit-anand'(eternal, consciousness and bliss).

It sounds so nice , so you start to make efforts to reach that destination . You have also been told its only by the grace of god and not your own efforts that will take you to your destination. Your efforts may lead to his mercy on you though. So we attempt to meditate on god's name , which is believed to be the ticket to eternal bliss , even if once uttered and heard, 'satnam waheguru' would bring liberation. There's one catch though : "you have to hear it will your mind intact and 100% concentrated. your mind shouldn't be split in multiple places" .

but getting your mind at one spot .
Its tough ! very tough.

"Ek chit je ek chhin dheyayo, kaal faas ke bich na aayo" (One who meditates on lord's name even for a split second , with all focus intact , shall never have to die (because of being born) again " - Guru Gobind Singh ji

So you attempt doing paath , doing simran and stuff.

Since you're attempting a baby's walk at this tough and noble path , you try to control your sexuality as well because its bad if outside marriage, outside the realm of procreation, isn't it ?
and being gay, marriage being not for me, I guess all sexual-related stuff is taboo for me. I shouldn't even be thinking about them.

I for the first time in my life haven't "touched myself" (sorry for lack of better word) for more than a month in a row !
Although thoughts of sexual nature still come in my mind and I end up googling things I shouldn't , I haven't spilled my seed (again sorry for being a little explicit but how else do I describe things?!)

This could be considered one step forward

Now here's one step backward :
Its hard to control sexuality , its hard to live a saintly life , its hard .. Somewhere from the recess of your mind, come back thoughts storming you "You are wasting your life" , "How do you know its real?"
You begin to wonder , to worry , you wonder for how long you can live celibate like a frigging nun !
And then for a life time ! it sounds tough already. Saints might have enjoyed eternal bliss but their lives seem boring . And then ofcourse the look of a handsome man is enough to bring lustful and kaami thoughts back in the mind.

This is step backward

Man indeed keeps one step forward, one backward. He doesn't go anywhere , does he ?
Its like the churning of mind, a tug-of-war and then you actually begin to feel how your thoughts, the five thieves in you have such a big grip on your life ! for the first time I felt how a soul is so helpless in the face of kaam. I for once felt the dire need of not having to waste this lifetime , but then I feel like "Why can't I get a haircut ? I can come to the guru ji afterwards as well. I need to look hot and start dating dudes "

For the first time in my life, I can feel consciously the tug of war the mind endures .

 

[Harry Haller]

I sometimes feel like I should strive to go back to my home : god , the home of all of us.
After all, the world seems like a bundle of sufferings , isn't it ? Wherever you look , people suffering. Sufferings at physical , mental , financial , social , political levels.
Isn't it better to cut the chase and never having to come back in this world ?

View attachment 19996

We have been hearing of "param-anand" (the greatest bliss) for so long and we also have been told its incomprehensible, saints experienced it but they couldn't describe it.
It can't be described but can only be experienced and to experience is it to be struck with awe . You have also been told that paramanand is result of cessation of all desires , ego , attachment, greed and anger . It is merging of individual soul back into god who is 'sat-chit-anand'(eternal, consciousness and bliss).

It sounds so nice , so you start to make efforts to reach that destination . You have also been told its only by the grace of god and not your own efforts that will take you to your destination. Your efforts may lead to his mercy on you though. So we attempt to meditate on god's name , which is believed to be the ticket to eternal bliss , even if once uttered and heard, 'satnam waheguru' would bring liberation. There's one catch though : "you have to hear it will your mind intact and 100% concentrated. your mind shouldn't be split in multiple places" .

but getting your mind at one spot .
Its tough ! very tough.

"Ek chit je ek chhin dheyayo, kaal faas ke bich na aayo" (One who meditates on lord's name even for a split second , with all focus intact , shall never have to die (because of being born) again " - Guru Gobind Singh ji

So you attempt doing paath , doing simran and stuff.

Since you're attempting a baby's walk at this tough and noble path , you try to control your sexuality as well because its bad if outside marriage, outside the realm of procreation, isn't it ?
and being gay, marriage being not for me, I guess all sexual-related stuff is taboo for me. I shouldn't even be thinking about them.

I for the first time in my life haven't "touched myself" (sorry for lack of better word) for more than a month in a row !
Although thoughts of sexual nature still come in my mind and I end up googling things I shouldn't , I haven't spilled my seed (again sorry for being a little explicit but how else do I describe things?!)

This could be considered one step forward

Now here's one step backward :
Its hard to control sexuality , its hard to live a saintly life , its hard .. Somewhere from the recess of your mind, come back thoughts storming you "You are wasting your life" , "How do you know its real?"
You begin to wonder , to worry , you wonder for how long you can live celibate like a frigging nun !
And then for a life time ! it sounds tough already. Saints might have enjoyed eternal bliss but their lives seem boring . And then ofcourse the look of a handsome man is enough to bring lustful and kaami thoughts back in the mind.

This is step backward

Man indeed keeps one step forward, one backward. He doesn't go anywhere , does he ?
Its like the churning of mind, a tug-of-war and then you actually begin to feel how your thoughts, the five thieves in you have such a big grip on your life ! for the first time I felt how a soul is so helpless in the face of kaam. I for once felt the dire need of not having to waste this lifetime , but then I feel like "Why can't I get a haircut ? I can come to the guru ji afterwards as well. I need to look hot and start dating dudes "

For the first time in my life, I can feel consciously the tug of war the mind endures .

If I may comment, the state of mind you are finding yourself in is a good foundation for the future, I commend you on your month long fast, it shows discipline and the desire for change.

Now, with a clear head you can decide what you actually want, all roads are open to you, I would suggest a road of wisdom and moderation, that is to say you can do whatever it is you wish, but moderation is the key, it does not have to be all or nothing, you can be everything and nothing, at your own choosing

I think your doing fine

 

[Ishna]

I worry that you have absorbed a homophobic and anti-sexual attitude from invading Abrahamic religions. Traditionally India has not had issues with homosexuality until the 18th century. The Sikh Gurus are certainly silent of the topic. They speak against lust. Lust is the negative end of the sexuality spectrum, just like rage is the negative end of the anger spectrum (for just one example). Sexuality and anger both have their place. Lust and rage, however, do not.

Also very Abrahamic is the idea that masturbation is a sin. As far as I know, it's not a problem as Harry says, in moderation.

Bottling up your sexual energy is on the same level as fasting, imho. Sikh don't fast for spiritual benefits, do they?

 

[Seeker2013]

If I may comment, the state of mind you are finding yourself in is a good foundation for the future, I commend you on your month long fast, it shows discipline and the desire for change.

Now, with a clear head you can decide what you actually want, all roads are open to you, I would suggest a road of wisdom and moderation, that is to say you can do whatever it is you wish, but moderation is the key, it does not have to be all or nothing, you can be everything and nothing, at your own choosing

I think your doing fine

Thanks for the replies Harry ji .
Actually it wouldn't have been possible had it not been a trip to a hillstation a month back. I went with my colleagues, since we had to share a bed at night, I couldn't touch myself. It snowballed into a few days of solo-sex abstinence and then it give me enough courage to continue.
Although if I go back to it now , as much as I feel temptation sometime, I fear I might feel like a loser .
Perhaps I will try to upscale this fast a bit .

 

[Seeker2013]

I worry that you have absorbed a homophobic and anti-sexual attitude from invading Abrahamic religions. Traditionally India has not had issues with homosexuality until the 18th century. The Sikh Gurus are certainly silent of the topic. They speak against lust. Lust is the negative end of the sexuality spectrum, just like rage is the negative end of the anger spectrum (for just one example). Sexuality and anger both have their place. Lust and rage, however, do not.

Also very Abrahamic is the idea that masturbation is a sin. As far as I know, it's not a problem as Harry says, in moderation.

Bottling up your sexual energy is on the same level as fasting, imho. Sikh don't fast for spiritual benefits, do they?

Its not so much about homophobia as much as its about being able to seeing things in a more serious context . I fear not only of this life, but also of the ones to come . Are my current actions sowing a mango seed or a cactus one. Or in short , in future, am I going to be forced to eat mangos or cactus thorns . Whether to eat or not is not a choice, what to eat is !

Just imagine this life of yours is like a frame in a video of millions of minutes.
Its so little, so rare, so precious. What is to say next life I am gonna be a sikh, and sikhi IMHO is clearest path to waheguru sans any rituals.
Wouldn't it be a terrible blunder to waste it just for temporary pleasures.

Yes I do feel sometimes like I how I write above, though not always.

How do you define 'lust' . I am sure sikhi considers sex outside marriage lust. And since gay marriages are not permissible in india, and if my only option is multiple partners (a new one every time, since existing societal and legal attitudes shape the psychology of gay men , i.e : mistrust of other gay men , an inability to form bonding with each other, etc )
Anti gay legal and social mindset does screw up social and relationship factors for gay men.
and therefore if a single partner is not feasible, is it lust ?

lust IMHO is quite subjective. a muslim man can marry four women, a sikh man can't .

 

[Seeker2013]

The major reason I wanted to stop "touching myself" :

Its a very weird and disturbing psychology which goes something like this :
People mock and hate your kind for what you are , then you protest, obviously because of self-respect, then something when this mocking happens continuously happens, your self-respect turns into self-loathing and esteem comes plummeting down
And then , something disturbing happens : the insults and the mocks , those smirks from non-gay men , all of a sudden they go from being something that offends you to something that ...ummm... arouses you in a perverted way.

Its like you start seeking those insults in a virtual world ... where can i find more tweets of homophobic straight men insulting gay men and getting high off it ... and then you begin "touching yourself" to it . But soon you realize the thrill is temporary . Soon the seed is spilled and you're back in real world where Insults can never be fantasized . They're insults after all . But you do it again and again and again. And I felt like a drug addict . I used to cry silently .

This is what got M word wrong in my books . Because "self-touch" was almost always accompanied by these self-defeating, self-loathing thoughts from hell.

And having visited some of the most disturbing X-rated content on internet regarding gay men, how they have damaged their bodies with objects, just for pleasure , its a nightmare . I feel I might end up the same fate if I let my mind go berserk . I was scared to be alone , because an empty mind is devils workshop

PS : hope I didn't say anything too explicit or inappropriate.sorry if i did so .

 

[Harry Haller]

I worry that you have absorbed a homophobic and anti-sexual attitude from invading Abrahamic religions. Traditionally India has not had issues with homosexuality until the 18th century. The Sikh Gurus are certainly silent of the topic. They speak against lust. Lust is the negative end of the sexuality spectrum, just like rage is the negative end of the anger spectrum (for just one example). Sexuality and anger both have their place. Lust and rage, however, do not.

Also very Abrahamic is the idea that masturbation is a sin. As far as I know, it's not a problem as Harry says, in moderation.

Bottling up your sexual energy is on the same level as fasting, imho. Sikh don't fast for spiritual benefits, do they?

true sis, bu

The major reason I wanted to stop "touching myself" :

Its a very weird and disturbing psychology which goes something like this :
People mock and hate your kind for what you are , then you protest, obviously because of self-respect, then something when this mocking happens continuously happens, your self-respect turns into self-loathing and esteem comes plummeting down
And then , something disturbing happens : the insults and the mocks , those smirks from non-gay men , all of a sudden they go from being something that offends you to something that ...ummm... arouses you in a perverted way.

Its like you start seeking those insults in a virtual world ... where can i find more tweets of homophobic straight men insulting gay men and getting high off it ... and then you begin "touching yourself" to it . But soon you realize the thrill is temporary . Insults can never be fantasized . They're insults after all . But you do it again and again and again.

This is what got M wrong in my books . Because "self-touch" was almost always accompanied by these self-defeating, self-loathing thoughts.

And having visited some of the most disturbing content on internet regarding gay men, how they have damaged their bodies just for pleasure , its a nightmare . I feel I might end up the same fate if I let my mind go berserk .

PS : hope I didn't say anything too explicit or inappropriate.

we should not shy away from the debate of important topics, this topic is not exclusive to you, it probably affects in some way most men on this earth, so no, you did not

 

[Seeker2013]

we should not shy away from the debate of important topics, this topic is not exclusive to you, it probably affects in some way most men on this earth, so no, you did not

most men are not gay , are they ? there's a reason gay men's health concerns are distinct from straight mens . life conditions us differently due to our experiences at physical and mental level , I believe.

 

[Harry Haller]

men are men, we all find different things attractive, you are a man first just like me, gay second

 

[Seeker2013]

men are men, we all find different things attractive, you are a man first just like me, gay second

I understand I am a man, but straight men are not stigmatized group. Hence they would not have the psychological perversion of converting verbal abuse into arousal I mentioned above .(Well yes some do from women, but they're minority I guess)
Please read my above post again

 

[Harry Haller]

I understand I am a man, but straight men are not stigmatized group. Hence they would not have the psychological perversion of converting verbal abuse into arousal I mentioned above .(Well yes some do from women, but they're minority I guess)
Please read my above post again

Seekerji do not be so ridiculous that all facets that you have are limited to you, they are not, I share most of your facets, I have a 'thing' just like you do, most men do, although most probably would not admit it, as for the psychological perversion of converting verbal abuse to arousal, please do a google search for dominatrix porn, and you may be surprised, your all man my friend, you just like men, and all your feelings, every single one, is not exclusive either to the gay community or yourself, these are universal feelings

You are lucky enough to be able to call yourself a minority and attatch yourself to a label, I have no such luck, I am simply an odd person.

 

[Ishna]

Yep, we all have our kinks

 

[Sikhilove]

Hi

I sometimes feel like I should strive to go back to my home : god , the home of all of us.
After all, the world seems like a bundle of sufferings , isn't it ? Wherever you look , people suffering. Sufferings at physical , mental , financial , social , political levels.
Isn't it better to cut the chase and never having to come back in this world ?

View attachment 19996

We have been hearing of "param-anand" (the greatest bliss) for so long and we also have been told its incomprehensible, saints experienced it but they couldn't describe it.
It can't be described but can only be experienced and to experience is it to be struck with awe . You have also been told that paramanand is result of cessation of all desires , ego , attachment, greed and anger . It is merging of individual soul back into god who is 'sat-chit-anand'(eternal, consciousness and bliss).

It sounds so nice , so you start to make efforts to reach that destination . You have also been told its only by the grace of god and not your own efforts that will take you to your destination. Your efforts may lead to his mercy on you though. So we attempt to meditate on god's name , which is believed to be the ticket to eternal bliss , even if once uttered and heard, 'satnam waheguru' would bring liberation. There's one catch though : "you have to hear it will your mind intact and 100% concentrated. your mind shouldn't be split in multiple places" .

but getting your mind at one spot .
Its tough ! very tough.

"Ek chit je ek chhin dheyayo, kaal faas ke bich na aayo" (One who meditates on lord's name even for a split second , with all focus intact , shall never have to die (because of being born) again " - Guru Gobind Singh ji

So you attempt doing paath , doing simran and stuff.

Since you're attempting a baby's walk at this tough and noble path , you try to control your sexuality as well because its bad if outside marriage, outside the realm of procreation, isn't it ?
and being gay, marriage being not for me, I guess all sexual-related stuff is taboo for me. I shouldn't even be thinking about them.

I for the first time in my life haven't "touched myself" (sorry for lack of better word) for more than a month in a row !
Although thoughts of sexual nature still come in my mind and I end up googling things I shouldn't , I haven't spilled my seed (again sorry for being a little explicit but how else do I describe things?!)

This could be considered one step forward

Now here's one step backward :
Its hard to control sexuality , its hard to live a saintly life , its hard .. Somewhere from the recess of your mind, come back thoughts storming you "You are wasting your life" , "How do you know its real?"
You begin to wonder , to worry , you wonder for how long you can live celibate like a frigging nun !
And then for a life time ! it sounds tough already. Saints might have enjoyed eternal bliss but their lives seem boring . And then ofcourse the look of a handsome man is enough to bring lustful and kaami thoughts back in the mind.

This is step backward

Man indeed keeps one step forward, one backward. He doesn't go anywhere , does he ?
Its like the churning of mind, a tug-of-war and then you actually begin to feel how your thoughts, the five thieves in you have such a big grip on your life ! for the first time I felt how a soul is so helpless in the face of kaam. I for once felt the dire need of not having to waste this lifetime , but then I feel like "Why can't I get a haircut ? I can come to the guru ji afterwards as well. I need to look hot and start dating dudes "

For the first time in my life, I can feel consciously the tug of war the mind endures .

I understand what your saying. I have experienced abit if what you have. The reality I that surrender to the gyan has to be 100%. 85%, even 90% isn't good enough! If you doubt yourself If you dont believe in yourself yourself and Only look for approval from yourself, who will believe in you and who will give you approval that u can actually trust.

Believe in yourself, u came alone and you'll go alone- that's a fact.

As for the lust stuff and your sexuality:

Being gay is just enjoying bathing in the nasha- the energy of someone of the same sex. It's your choice how you choose to live life. Obviously the Gurus showed that living as a householder while practicing Truth is great. But ultimately,we choose what we want to do.

I have lived celibate- lol like a nun I guess- for years and am now just about to try out a relationship with a sikh guy with the view to marry. I started bhagti around 6 yrs ago. My reasoning was that I had a vision of a beautiful guy (his heart was beautiful) telling me to find him. I now fully believe I have found him.

Nothing's certain, I'm aware of that and although I'm pretty sure I'm already in love with the guy, there are so many things and doubts that can try and get in the way, esp in nowaday society where many times image and lust can seem to falsely trump love. But its a battle I'm prepared to fight for Love.

The Anand and bliss you speak of is the Truth frequency with which no worldly gift, holiday, jewels, maya beauty and handsomeness, or bullshit fame can compare.

It's is beyind the 3 energies- it is Pure True and unconditional love. Vibrating at it, the bhagats live in peace and contentment in their hearts.

 

[sukhsingh]

One step forward, two steps back. Still only one step away from the root?