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Parkash Of Two Granths Together In Parkarma Of Harmandir Sahib Ji

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This image of Maharaja Ranjit Singh's Darbar on the Prikarma of Sri Darbar Sahib Ji, Amritsar is widely used by the proponents of Dasam Granth all over the internet.

A Few Questions to Ponder:

  1. What are Origins of this Portrait?
  2. In my personal perspective, the Two Granths in the image are visibly of very different sizes, which is quite strange, considering that the difference between the two Granths is only of two Pannas (Pages). How is it possible? And if add those other 7 compositions removed from DG by the Sodhak Committee, both of the Granths should have been huge where as only one of them looks like huge granth and the other one looks like a very small book of a few pages.

  3. The another observation that raises from this startling revelation is that if Sri DG originally was of very small size and later on why on whose behest quite a few more compositions were added to make a 1428 page Granth? It is also quite strange that those 7 compositions, which were randomly removed from in 1903 so that the page count comes around about the same. 1428 - 1430!! On what basis those 7 compositions were removed?

  4. Then question arises, who added or removed those compositions earlier and later on? and on What basis?

august- theodore- schoefft-ds-ranjit-singh.jpg
Parkash of Two Granths Together in Parkarma of Harmandir Sahib Ji.

Maharaja Ranjit Singh listening to the two sacred Granths being recited near Sri Harimandir Sahib.
(A Painting by August Theodore Schoefft (1809-1888), made in Amritsar. From Princess Bamba Collection)
Note: The following is an excerpt from a book, Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab,written by Sir John Malcolm* in 1812. John Malcolm’s work is one of the rarest firsthand information recorded by a western historian on the lifestyle, belief systems and traditions of the Sikhs in Punjab during the 18<sup>th</sup> century .​
Guru-Mata

When Gurmata or great national council, is called, (as it always is, or ought to be, when any imminent danger threatens the country, or any large expedition is to be undertaken) all the Sikh chiefs assemble at Amritsar. The assembly, which is called the Guru-mata, is convened by the Acalis; and when the chiefs meet upon this solemn occasion, it is concluded that all private animosities cease, and that every main sacrifices his personal feelings at the shrine of the general good; and, actuated by principles of pure patriotism, thinks of nothing but the interests of the religion, and commonwealth, to which he belongs.

When the chiefs and principal leaders are seated, the Adi-Granth and Dasama Padshah ka Granth are placed before them. They all bend their heads before these scriptures, and exclaim, Wa! Guruji ka Khalsa! Wa! Guruji ki Fateh! A great quantity of cakes, made of wheat, butter, and sugar, are then placed before the volumes of their sacred writings, and covered with a cloth. These holy cakes, which are in commemoration of the injunction of Nanac, to eat and to give to others to eat, next receive the salutation of the assembly, who then rise, and the Acalis pray aloud, while the musicians play. The Acalis, then the prayers are finished, desire the council to be seated. They sit down, and the cakes being uncovered, are eaten of by all classes of Sikhs: those distinctions of original tribes, which are, on occasions, kept up, being on this occasion laid aside, in token of their general and complete union in one cause. The Acalis then exclaim: "Sirdars! (Chiefs) this is Guru-mata!" on which prayers are again said aloud. The chiefs, after this sit closer, and say to each other: "The sacred Granth is betwixt us, let us swear by our scripture to forget all internal disputes, and to be united." This moment of religious fervor and ardent patriotism, is taken to reconcile all animosities. They then proceed to consider the danger with whcih they are threatened, to settle the best plans for averting it, and to choose the generals who are to lead their armies against the common enemy. The first Guru-mata was assembled by Guru Govinid; and the latest was called in 1805, when the British army pursued Holkar into the Penjab.

(pages. 120-123)
________________________
*Sir John Malcolm (May 2, 1769 ‑ 1833) was a Scottish soldier, statesman, and historian. He held various distinguished posts, being Ambassador to Persia, Resident of Gwalior (1803-1804) and Governor of Bombay 1827-1830. He was the author of several valuable works regarded as authorities, viz., Sketch of the Sikhs, a singular nation in the province of Penjab (1812), A History of Persia (1815), Memoir of Central India(1823), Political History of India from 1784 to 1823 (1826), and Life of Lord Clive (1836)
 

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Aman ji

I have seen this picture so many times as "evidence" :rolleyes: This is a rendition based on an artist's conceptualization and it was created more than one hundred years after the death of Sri Guru Gobind Singh ji.

Your observations and questions are really important. Let's add this to the list of problems internal to the Sodhak Granth. :welcome:
 

BhagatSingh

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The Two Granths in the image are visibly of very different sizes, which is quite strange, considering that the difference between the two Granths is only of two Pannas (Pages). How is it possible? And if add those other 7 compositions removed from DG by the Sodhak Committee, both of the Granths should have been huge where as only one of them looks like huge granth and the other one looks like a very small book of a few pages.
But they are the same size in the image. Perhaps, two SGGS for the two people who are reading.
Are you saying that the one in the front is larger than the one in the back?

About the excerpt form the book:
Doesn't Bibi Jugraj comment on that? She says the John Malcolm claims to have got his information from Nirmalas. Can we confirm this comment from the book Aman Singh ji?
 

Admin

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Its amazing how two people look at the same object from same angle but derive two entirely different perspectives and in my opinion, your observation has definitely more weight to it as there seems to be no logic in listening/reciting two different Granths at the same time. :crazy:

Well, i have not read the book by Malcolm and if that is case that you have mentioned then there is absolutely no doubt that the origins of this portrait may be fake... i was under the understanding that this portrait was the eyewitness account of what August Theodore Schoefft saw while serving in the Darbar of Maharaj Ranjit Singh ji!! :eek:

No wonder, patshahi.org has deliberately did not mention about the origins of the this portrait. Another attempt to manipulate Sikh History. :crazy:
 

BhagatSingh

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No your understanding of the portrait is probably correct, the origins are probably true.
I am talking about this:
When the chiefs and principal leaders are seated, the Adi-Granth and Dasama Padshah ka Granth are placed before them.
First there is the comment from Bibi Jugraj Kaur, which I want to confirm.
Second, (I just thought of this) Is Malcolm talking about the portrait? or has the painting been placed next to his writings to make the whole thing sound "more true"?
 

spnadmin

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No wonder, patshahi.org has deliberately did not mention about the origins of the this portrait. Another attempt to manipulate Sikh History. :crazy:


The origins of this portrait were never provided in any Internet thread where it has been offered as evidence. That is why I think it semi-hilarious when it is used to prove the parkash of Dasam Granth. It was painted many years after the death of Guru Gobind Singh. Bhagat ji's observations are also very interesting. We should also note that Malcolm refers to Dasama Padshah ka Granth which was a collection of poetry and hymns that are different from the so-called Dasam Granth today. Malcolm reports, that the chiefs say, "The sacred Granth is betwixt us, let us swear by our scripture to forget all internal disputes, and to be united." This quote refers to one (the) sacred Granth, and not two. Malcolm's narrative (let us grant that he is giving an honest account of his observations) also occur years after the death of Guru Gobind Singh. So any truth to either, portrait or narrative, can only be accurate for a period of time following great turbulence in Sikh History. Therefore they cannot be considered an authentic record of the intentions or writings of Guru Gobind Singh, or for that matter the earliest leaders of the Khalsa after his death. There is no way to authenticate the chain of custody for documents that were later compiled by the Sodhak Committee as "Dasam Granth"in 1900 through 1902, nor has this chain of custody been verified.
 

spnadmin

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Aman ji please do not show a :eek: because there is definitely a thread needed that will take a detailed look at the patterns of religious adherence during the raj of Ranjit Singh. Two things stand out 1) after assuming power he quickly disengaged from the influence of the missls and began to appoint advisers from Hindu and Muslim groups working side by side with Sikhs; 2) his interests in sustaining a fully integrated system of miri/piri ran to neutral rather than fully vested. Though it has been recorded that he accepted punishment for his dalliance with a dancing girl, that incident alone does not help us understand the directions Sikhism as a religious belief system was veering toward during his reign.
 
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