India Shame On Gurdwara - Biased Headline By Panthic News

[Archived_Member16]

SHAME ON GURDWARA​

Sunday 13th November, 2005

Fauja Singh – Panthic Weekly Staff​

MP James Plaskitt (File Photo)Leamington Spa, Warwickshire, UK (KP)


- Panthic Weekly has received reports from sources yesterday that Gurdwara Sahib Leamington & Warwick Management Committee violated the sanctity and purpose of the Gurdwara Sahib by allowing a sharaab (alcohol) and meat party for 100 people or so within the Gurdwara premises.


The reports suggest that at the party, which took place inside the Gurdwara building compound, influential politicians were also present. The politicans included the Labour MP James Plaskitt for Warwick & Leamington who while enjoying the hospitality of the Gurdwara Committee (by drinking alcohol and eating meat), said, “Now, I know, which is the best room in the Gurdwara!”


Members of the Sangat, who happened to be visiting the Gurdwara at the time, walked in--to the smell of meat being cooked. “All I could smell is alcohol and meat when I stepped into the Gurdwara” said one member of sangat.


As the sangat walked past the room to investigate the smell, they were shocked and horrified to hear the words of MP James Plaskitt. As the sangat entered the room they saw a party hall set up for an estimated 100 people. On each table the sangat found dishes of lamb meat accompanied by bottles of whiskey, Bacardi, beer, and other intoxicants.


Is the Guru’s Darbaar not the best room in the Gurdwara? Or is a room designated for socialising within the Gurdwara building the best room because they make meat (using Gurdwara utensils) and enjoy drinking barcardi, whiskey and beer?


In the room, sources describe a special bar which has been made and a large television on which people were watching football. The event was claimed to be a Diwali party, even though it went against the basic principles of the Sikh faith and celebrating a Gurpurb of Bandi Chor was reduced to alcohol and meat being served by the Gurdwara commitee president. Members of the sangat described the room as having a pub like atmosphere.
Members of the committee who where in Guru's roop (form) with dastar (turban) and beard where caught eating meat and consuming alcohol on the Gurdwara premises in that room. Meat and alcohol was made, served and consumed using utensils and cutlery from Guru Ka Langar (community kitchen).


Drinking alcohol is a gross violation of the Sikh tenets, however drinking within the Gurdwara premises is an even worse insult and desecration. Sangat members who came across this grotesque insult to the Sikh faith peacefully asked the drinking party, “Why are you drinking in the Gurdwara? This is not allowed [according to our faith]!” It was claimed that a Gurdwara Committee Member stood up to the concerned Gursikhs and said, “This is not your Gurdwara, this is OUR Gurdwara.”


Disgusted by the response of the drunkard man who had a white flowing beard, the Gursikhs reminded the Gurdwara Committee members and the men indulging in consuming intoxicants and meat that “This is not YOUR Gurdwara, it is the GURU’s Gurdwara.” The committee members then started throwing alcohol and meat at the Sangat who where left shocked at what was happening.


Reports suggest that the drunkard men from the party felt insulted by the Gursikhs who had interrupted their drinking session and so attacked the Gursikhs. A scuffle then followed as sangat Gursikhs tried to defend themselves as committee members began to physically assault and remove dastars (turbans) of the sangat.
Members of the Sangat were even more ashamed of knowing that the General Secretary and Stage Secretary of the Gurdwara, who have white beards and who are meant to lead the Sikh community and guard the Sikh Rehat Maryada, promoting Gurmat in the Gurdwara premises, were seen drinking alcohol and enjoying the evening with the politicians, Gurdwara Committee members and other local members of Leamington Spa.


Sangat's (community) donations to the Gurdwara for its upkeep, propagating the Sikh religion and for Panthic causes were being used to entertain influential politicians and have parties which desecrated the Sikh place of worship, values and Sikh religion.


Panthic Weekly has received reports that some members of the committee are threatening to carry on with such practises, “we will be prepared next time,” is a quote Panthic Weekly has received from sources.


What next? In the eighteenth century, Massa Rangar drank alcohol, ate meat and had prostitute-dancing girls in the premises of Harmandar Sahib. Members of the Sangat will be writing to Sri Akal Takht Sahib in regards to the growing laxity of discipline and respect for Gurmat and the property of Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji amongst some Gurdwaras in the UK, in particular, Leamington & Warwick Gurdwara Sahib.

Panthic Weekly will keep you updated with any news regarding this serious matter.

Fauja Singh can be reached at fauja.singh@panthic.org

 

[Prithipal Singh]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

WJKK
WJKF

This is very bad, what the "leaders" are doing what kind of example they are setting for the young generation....

This is a hall seperate on the same premises of the Gurdwara. its a "sports hall" where all "other activities are carried out". What goes on there can be read on this link...

http://www.anandpursahib.org/sikhnet/discussion.nsf/by+topic/A216EEE8301EC61D87256F24007ADFD6!OpenDocument

This should not be allowed in the same premises. !!!, Further, if the committee members can not live to the reyat and be ideal examples, they have no right to be committee members...and justifibly resign, as now they have started running a business....!!!!!!!!!! :down:



WJKK
WJKF

 

[jasi]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

sat sri akal ji. reference to over blown up situation i just want to enter my possible opinion as i never been to this place.i think the place for gyms and other sport (hall) is situated next to Gurr Dawara ji. you have to understand that thee are Gurudwara opened strip mall shopping centers.like the one we have in toronto. there is liqure store in that mall hamburger are being cooked and all kinds of chineese food is there. which do not make us a big news . remeber we are not extreemist but very open minded sikhs, knowingly we do not belive in any ritual etc. like alcohal and tobbaco are prohibited for all because to avoid any long term addiction and health probelm. so do not get too excited that you are commiting a "pap". and you have to go to dipp in the nector to wash away the"pap" remeber what says in Gurbani"nirmal hoi kar ashnana" you have to correct your sef first then take dip in the holy nector.You can not put nector in dirty pot(BODY) you have clean thorouly then i go ahead.how"dhuvia mat nama ke sang" Nam will wash all your sins and the once you did that then go ahead and never do that again. my whole purpose of this writing is to stop missleading the people and God is prent every where and let it be .please forgive me if i wirte any word not appropriate.

jaspal singh

 

[Prithipal Singh]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

WJKK
WJKF
Dear Jas, I do agree with your point that waheguru is everywhere. But where we get together, and believe where the Guru resides, where we all get together to pray.. we need to preserve the sacred environment, these things should not be going on in the Gurdwara..

If its a seperate building, kitchen is seperate , yes it could be acceptable. But having the same committee members encouraging this, and after drinking them walking in to the Gurdwara, may be pushing the coin... They should have stricter guidelines.. This seperate building should not be owned by the Gurdwara !!!!. Money coming from the "parties", may be used for langar, is not acceptable. The Guru's have indicated the langar should be taken care by donations, (rightful donations)

I could go further and say, as alcohol and meat (most believe) not allowed, why is the committee members ("the leaders" ) encouraging this behaviour !! Our tolerence is considered a weakness and people walk over it.

I have no problem with a strip mall , as it has no direct connection with the committee members, and not encouraged its members !!

We should believe in what we preach.....

Prithipal

 

[jasi]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

dear prithipal ji.
i am perfectly agreed with you. our values must be shown with our deeds. especialy by the amritdharis or committed members of the Gurudwar.

but in this case or any other case i agreed with you it is very symbolic to do what we preach. but you must understand when grownup childeren where parents has a little control has to get envolve of their happy time.marriages or others occassion without indulging themseleves in useing alcoahalic beaverages etc. i thinks in this case that was done. but merely presence of the parents and friends must not be overblown by blaming themthat they are prmoting such actions. we have to be very open minded .
sikhs philosophy and relegion is very open minded not a fanatic.first of alloue one of the biggest principal is not to talk bout any body on their back or crisize the saint or bapetized sikh members. leave them alone on their own deeds . "KARMI APO APNI ,KE NAIRE KIA DHOOR"
thanks. jaspal

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

Gurfateh

Das wants to make a few observations.

1. As per book of Kala Afghana Sahib there has been and still is many Gurudwara where meat is served in Langer.(epcaily by lower caste or non Punjabis).Das also once took rice with meat in one langer on weding occaison but that was not in Gurudwara but it is in Budhadal.
2. As per Budhdal few of them have no reservation to use intoxicants till they do not get use to it or are addicited.All intoxicants but Tobacco.

Das anyway can say that he himslef stoped the useage of liquer after becoming Sikh.

And as far as that Gurudwara is concern we must see it manual or guidlines as if it is writtan there that no meat and wine is allowed.

If mannual says no then there is no fault of anyone but to avoid such happening again in future there must be a dcre from Akal Takhat or local rules which debar from use of meat and wine.

illeffects of them as follow.
1. by useage of wine,user can be a problem to the security of child and fenale folk visiting Gurudwara but there has been rape case in Amritsar Sahib where we had Alchohal and meat may not be served.
2. Use of meat in langer can hurt the sentments of Sikhs and non Sikhs alike who do not eat meat and thye may not visit Gurudwara and there could be divide in Panth over it and purpose of Gurudwara to unite manking can fail.In Many Budhdal Gurudwaras more in south India there fore meat is served only at selected time at often differant place.

Main problem is to be if the usage of Alchohal and meat caused harm to other vivisters of Gurudwara then it must be avoided.

Das is repeating that in UK most vocal people belive that meat and Alchohal is not allowed but people who make more sound may not be majority or even theologicaly correct.

There are more practical reason which oppse Alchohal and meat then spritual reasons.Like Alchohal is bad to health etc. or meat can cause increse in semen content which may cause restlessness in brain and person can become unstable.

but Doda barfi does the same.And Tea,Coffe or Coke can also be bad to health.WE need to very balanced in this.

Das wants to say one more thing that in UK people repect Sikhs for they do not smoke or drink and being vegitrian often many find then torch bearer of peace but many out of them can cause cinema bomb blast in Delhi.

das is not in tow minds but wants to side with both the sides as both have valid reasons.

 

[jasi]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

dear vijapdeep singh ji. in sikhism or relegion it is very staight foreward understanding that we do not consume any intoxicatings thinghs or liquid form like drinks. we are vegetarian and human loving and respecting faith regardless of ones birth,

other than you can keeps on discussing many many ways . theer is no ends to it. even a lay man can understand what i am writing. every things which is prohibted by our gurus is good fror our health and character and faimly life.

we must appreciate His name and thanking for His guidance.
jaspal

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

Gurfateh

Thing in the mind of das was to jsut there be a verditct from Akal Takhat Sahib after understanding all aspects on this if not already being made.


Meat can be Bad for spritual health of yogis(but may not be mainstream or true Sikh) and Alchohal is bad for family and social life.

but till there is no clear cut Maryada or code in Gurudwaras which debars it das find that it is difficult to avoid recurrance of such incidents in futrue.

Das being Amritdhari can not gives anyone a licnace that Gurbani is well understood by that person as many writers of Gurubanis did not have underwent Sikh baptism.

To be more clear there is need for Amritdharis to let these people who are hurting thier sentiments know that if they have to share Gurudwara then must respect the views of those who do not use meat and wine else let them make thier own Gurudwaras.

to be more pricise if some one wants to use liquer and meat in Gurudwara then he may have a differant Gurudwara as Nihungs have .

let there be peacefull partition.

 

[jasi]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

dear viajadeep ji.

please try to read as i did the first posting regarding this metter.. i was not there but from the informations gethered from the first letter of concern that this all happened in seperate hall but in the same one large building in whch one of the section is Gurswara is situated.

next there is no law or rules but guidance that all these things such as any intoxicating products or tobacoo are very harmful for your health and normal living and normalthinkings. so if a person do not follow these sugested guidaces or directions there is no punishment for that he himself causes lots of punishment by loosing his /her family and health, we are not like a moslims that we should cut persons head or limbs for their doings or whip them.

no in sikhism is very broad way of thinking that if we as human being bound to make mistakes but by repeating HIS name problems can we solved. punishment comes automatically "changaian boreian watche dharam adhoor .karmi apo apani ke nera ke dhoor." you can not have more clear explanation than that. we do not punishe humens for their doings . it is up to HIM,

we do have man made laws in which case one can be punished phisically or send to jail to issolate him from the society hi is effecting. but if one do not follow our gurus direction so your are effecting your soul and family. health on permanent basis. that is why by repeating HIS name in every moemt of your kife will prevent you for doing wrong things and thinking.our sikhism is not teaching us aggressive attitude at all but "NIMRTA and FORGIVENESS"such a greart faith and teachings of GURO SAHIB JI which covers every faith in the world even there was "SUDHAR IN PARTCULAR FAITH WAS SUGESTED: for example SIDH PRACTICES AND MOSLIMS PRACTICES.HINDU PRACTICEs by Sat Guru Nanak Dev Ji arround the world.

we must be a very proud being sikh to follow the truth. where if unjustice is imposed on us and there is no other to addess the evil then we have to protect ourseles by taking all means of defence at our disposal.
but no revengefull way. for example "BHAI GHANIA JI GIVING WATER TO DYING WARRIER IN THE WAR FIELD"

i hope i made every thing clear if i wrote some thing which is not proper please forgive me that as i am just a human being.

our Gurbani make us think very high.

wahe guru ji ka khalsa ,wahe Gur Ji KI fateh.

jaspal

 

[vijaydeep Singh]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

Gurfateh

Dear Jaspi Ji,

kindly forgive das if any mistake is commtied.

Das just felt the agony of those Sikhs who were not using such things like meat and alchhohal as thier faith yet found them in Gurudwara Sahib.

And as you say it is bad for us to ban such people from Gurudwara Sahib as this will blaock thier way to reform.

Das just wanted to place an idea that can they have differant Gurudwara Sahib for themselve intead of thieir hurting the faiths of others.

This episode reminded das a sorry state in east London where jatt management people who hardly kenw panth organise sports weak realted to Gurpurab and jatts from alover UK and aborad come there and drink intoxiacant and often play with the sancity.

And when people from Damdami Taksal and Akhand Kirtani Jatha wanted to reform them they did not conceded.As our Missionary Class is on the pay role of Jatts so they could do little but supporting them(DDT and AKj people by lip).

Das can say that three class of us can make Gurudwaras of thier type where they can have no such non snese and real preaching.

(Das used Jatt term for holigans like Badal or Tohara found in most of the committees and are more after power then Gurmat as Jatt is term use for carefree but here careless people.Das is just repeating that forefathers of das before migrating to Bihar lived in Haryana with Gotras like Solanki which has equvalant in Punjab as virk but Das is Singh only and as per Gurmat does not wants to offend any race or class or caste).


This incidence must give us a lesson and we must think in all direction to how to avoid this in future.Das will appriciate further comments.

 

[gurpreetsingh]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

I just want to tell "Eh duniya bahut waddi hai kihnu kihnu sidda karange" i.e, "aap change te jagg changa" Give birth to HUMANITY in urself, then only u can change the WORLD. Means make everybody to be a HUMAN BEING.

WAHEGURU BHALI KAREGA

 

[sachbol]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

I have heard that in certain deras "kali mai" ie opium is a daily ration for sewadars. Is it true? Can somebody throw light on this?

 

[roab1]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

What about 'chatka' at Hazur sahib and among Nihung Dals all over. I have heard from someone that many sewadars at Hazur Sahib freely consume alcohol. Same goes for SGPC gurdwaras. Many Jathedars all well known takers of all kinds of drugs. 'Sukha' is similar to 'alcohol'.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

IMHO its even worse BEADBI of SGGS when a book is installed at Par with SGGS..similar Palki, similar paath/ardass/hukmnamahs etc taken from this book....TWO TAKHATS among many other Gurdwaras commit this blasphemy agianst the ONE and ONLY GURU we Sikhs Proclaim..the SGGS.

 

[jasi]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

Sat Sri akal Ji.

It is my opinion like old saying "Mend yourself than mending the whole world"

The entire fault lies with us who elect or go to these people who are making the news.

it is us who go to all kinds of various Granthies to give them courage to guide us or rule us. .

These priest has not got any educations to be better or understanding the communities.

There is to much politics in the Sad Sangat.

We are racist and we are hypocrite among our selves. the love and respect is gone .We use all our name attached with family names which supposed to be only SINGH.

Society will learn by itself. Who is born to blemish or insult the truth.?

Relax and follow Gurbani and look after your family.

Jaspi

I have heard that in certain deras "kali mai" ie opium is a daily ration for sewadars. Is it true? Can somebody throw light on this?

 

[pamma]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

This is shocking news for us in India. Such people should not hang their hands in shame but bury themselves in shame. There should be no committees, the sangat should take over the work in the gurdwaras. If people are really serious about serving the gurdwara they won'.t be fighting for posts.

 

[Randip Singh]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

This is BS published by Panthic News who are equivalent to Nazi's!!

Leamington Gurdwara have a seperate hall for Parties etc.

Panthic News are a bunch of Liars and trouble makers.

 

[Harry Haller]

re: Shame on Gurdwara - Biased Headline by Panthic News !

"The committee members then started throwing alcohol and meat at the Sangat who where left shocked at what was happening. "

lmho, im sorry, bs or no bs, this version of events is hilarious, all it needs is for one of the sangat to be a sikh vegan, who then complained that veg pakoras should have been thrown instead of chicken

sounds more like a monty python sketch, but I would love to see it acted out in a film, FOODFIGHT!!!!!!!

 

[sachbol]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

Khalsaji you are talking about prakash of Dasam Granth, I challenge if any body has guts to read out stories from Charitropakhanya from Dasm Granth in Gurdwara in front of his sister, mother or daughter. These are pornographic stories and can not be Baani of Sri Guru Gobind Singhji. What are your views ?

 

[buddhushah]

Re: Shame on gurdwara !

dear viajadeep ji.

please try to read as i did the first posting regarding this metter.. i was not there but from the informations gethered from the first letter of concern that this all happened in seperate hall but in the same one large building in whch one of the section is Gurswara is situated.

next there is no law or rules but guidance that all these things such as any intoxicating products or tobacoo are very harmful for your health and normal living and normalthinkings. so if a person do not follow these sugested guidaces or directions there is no punishment for that he himself causes lots of punishment by loosing his /her family and health, we are not like a moslims that we should cut persons head or limbs for their doings or whip them.

no in sikhism is very broad way of thinking that if we as human being bound to make mistakes but by repeating HIS name problems can we solved. punishment comes automatically "changaian boreian watche dharam adhoor .karmi apo apani ke nera ke dhoor." you can not have more clear explanation than that. we do not punishe humens for their doings . it is up to HIM,

we do have man made laws in which case one can be punished phisically or send to jail to issolate him from the society hi is effecting. but if one do not follow our gurus direction so your are effecting your soul and family. health on permanent basis. that is why by repeating HIS name in every moemt of your kife will prevent you for doing wrong things and thinking.our sikhism is not teaching us aggressive attitude at all but "NIMRTA and FORGIVENESS"such a greart faith and teachings of GURO SAHIB JI which covers every faith in the world even there was "SUDHAR IN PARTCULAR FAITH WAS SUGESTED: for example SIDH PRACTICES AND MOSLIMS PRACTICES.HINDU PRACTICEs by Sat Guru Nanak Dev Ji arround the world.

we must be a very proud being sikh to follow the truth. where if unjustice is imposed on us and there is no other to addess the evil then we have to protect ourseles by taking all means of defence at our disposal.
but no revengefull way. for example "BHAI GHANIA JI GIVING WATER TO DYING WARRIER IN THE WAR FIELD"

i hope i made every thing clear if i wrote some thing which is not proper please forgive me that as i am just a human being.

our Gurbani make us think very high.

wahe guru ji ka khalsa ,wahe Gur Ji KI fateh.

jaspal

dear every one,when we go to some place ,we obey the rules as laid down by its owner.gurudwara,as the name suggests,is the place owned by the guru,[GURU GRANTH SAHIBJI].SO WE ARE TO ABIDE BY THE RULES /PRINCIPLES/TENETS AS LAID DOWN BY THE GURU]when we go to any other contry ,town ,place etc,we follow the rules ,traditions etc.what JAS is saying is to create excuses for the same.it is that we are responsible for our deeds,also ,that we should not allow any body to take us for granted who so ever he /she is.today if we take this lightly,tomorrow them will start strip tease ,should we?AND IT IS NOT A DEBATABLE TOPIC.YES,gurbani makes us /asks us to think very high,but the problem with us is that,as we tend to go higher we get breathless,and the lack of oxygen makes our brain dumb dumber dumbest.