Soche Shoch

[ravneet_sb]

Sat Sri Akaal,

"THOUGHT" are creation of formed "MIND" and if no formed mind than "Natural" thoughts appear

"Image" and "Voice" inputs received during life span and while reproduction are stored by us in Memory

What "Image" and "Voice" should be stored

To Clean "Thought" process

By thinking again and again no one clean the "HARD MIND"

One has to understand the cleaning process

To Clean good and bad "Visual" and "VOCAL" stores of "Memory"

"Thoughts" are formed within mind

as a result of " Formed Mind" or "Manmat"

or if "GURUBANI" thoughts are stores as "VOCAL" / "VISUAL" both than as a "GURMAT"

Mind Works

24x7 it works and doesn't have rest

How to attain rest of "Mind" without "Death"

Mind Machine is always "Thinking"

For E.G.

Old took hair bath, question asked

how this bath will clean thoughts inside mind

Asked "How you have clean good/bad thoughts" like a bad bug or "Virus" in the "Hard Disk"

Daily Bad Voices and Images are stored in our Memory Store which appears
while we are "IDLE"

The stored voices/images appears as a good and bad conversation idle gossip

Giving a good and bad environment

So how to keep "MIND" clean of "Formed" Thoughts

"Guru's " Have given the way to keep thoughts clean

"SOCHE" (THOUGHTs) "SHOCH" (CLEAN) Na Hovie

Je "SOCHE" lakh vaar


Chuppe Chup Na Hovai
Je Lai Rahan Liv Taar

Inner "Sounds" reappear though in outer "silence" space


Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa
Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh





I

 

[ActsOfGod]

I thought that this line was in regard to the concept of "Sucham". In Sanskrit, one of the meanings of "Soche" is "Sucham" (i.e. ritual cleansing). In modern Punjabi, "Soche" = thinking. Perhaps a mis-translation, albeit a common one.

The "Sucham" translation actually makes more sense to me when considered with the rest of lines of this pauri, as these were all various practices in use by people to attempt attaining liberation.

AoG

 

[Tejwant Singh]

I thought that this line was in regard to the concept of "Sucham". In Sanskrit, one of the meanings of "Soche" is "Sucham" (i.e. ritual cleansing). In modern Punjabi, "Soche" = thinking. Perhaps a mis-translation, albeit a common one.

The "Sucham" translation actually makes more sense to me when considered with the rest of lines of this pauri, as these were all various practices in use by people to attempt attaining liberation.

AoG

AoG,

Guru Fateh.

I totally agree with you. Well explained.

 

[jitender kaur]

I dont think soch is for sucham.To me -sochai soch na hoavai je sochi lakh var-if we think of the great power (God) even a million times .just thinking will not evolve our soul and elevate it where we will get a glimpse of God.For that we will have to meditate and live in hukam.

 

[Harry Haller]

ust thinking will not evolve our soul and elevate it where we will get a glimpse of God.

whereas mumbling will not only get us a glimpse of god, but we get a t shirt and matching pants!

What does a glimpse of god actually mean? how will a glimpse of god help us? I already know god exists as Akal Purakh, and in that respect, I get more of a glimpse of Akal Purakh just living my life

and thinking...

 

[jitender kaur]

Yes, we all know God exists as Akaal Purakh, and when we get his glimpse in our day to day life,we learn to live in his hukam , we are enlightened,we have reached the truth

 

[Harry Haller]

Yes, we all know God exists as Akaal Purakh, and when we get his glimpse in our day to day life,we learn to live in his hukam , we are enlightened,we have reached the truth

I know God exists as Akaal Purakh
I glimpse Akaal Purakh in my day to day life
I am not sure I have a choice to learn to live in 'his' Hukam, but that is another thread
I am far from being enlightened
The truth remains a distant light in the dark

 

[ActsOfGod]

I dont think soch is for sucham.To me -sochai soch na hoavai je sochi lakh var-if we think of the great power (God) even a million times .just thinking will not evolve our soul and elevate it where we will get a glimpse of God.For that we will have to meditate and live in hukam.

Jitender kaur ji,

I thought it would be helpful to look at the first pauri as a whole, so I went back and re-read it:

ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ ॥
ਚੁਪੈ ਚੁਪ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਲਾਇ ਰਹਾ ਲਿਵ ਤਾਰ ॥
ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਨ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ ॥
ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਤ ਇਕ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥
ਕਿਵ ਸਚਿਆਰਾ ਹੋਈਐ ਕਿਵ ਕੂੜੈ ਤੁਟੈ ਪਾਲਿ ॥
ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥

My own limited understanding of each line:

ਸੋਚੈ ਸੋਚਿ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਸੋਚੀ ਲਖ ਵਾਰ ॥
This talks about the practice of ritual cleansing and indicates that it is futile.

ਚੁਪੈ ਚੁਪ ਨ ਹੋਵਈ ਜੇ ਲਾਇ ਰਹਾ ਲਿਵ ਤਾਰ ॥
This talks about the practice of silence and indicates that it is futile.

ਭੁਖਿਆ ਭੁਖ ਨ ਉਤਰੀ ਜੇ ਬੰਨਾ ਪੁਰੀਆ ਭਾਰ ॥
This talks about amassing worldly goods to appease hunger, and indicates that it is futile.

ਸਹਸ ਸਿਆਣਪਾ ਲਖ ਹੋਹਿ ਤ ਇਕ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਨਾਲਿ ॥
This talks about utilizing clever tricks and intelligence and indicates that it is futile.

ਕਿਵ ਸਚਿਆਰਾ ਹੋਈਐ ਕਿਵ ਕੂੜੈ ਤੁਟੈ ਪਾਲਿ ॥
This poses the question that, if all of the above are futile, then how can one achieve the truth, by what means can one break through the filth?

ਹੁਕਮਿ ਰਜਾਈ ਚਲਣਾ ਨਾਨਕ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਨਾਲਿ ॥੧॥
This is the answer: go along (i.e. wilfully obey) with the Hukam of the Lord (i.e. don't fight against it or resist it), and with the teachings written down by Guru Nanak Sahib.

I suppose the first line could mean the practice of thinking, but to me it doesn't seem that way when compared with the rest of the practices that are highlighted in the pauri. Would love to hear some scholarly opinions on this.

AoG

 

[Original]

AoG Ji

"dhur ki bani i tin saglee chint ma'tie", Guru Maharaj Ji explains that this here Bani is from the source and what that source is, is captured in the mool mantar. The mool mantar is a preamble to the rest of SGGSJ and broadly speaking the clear message contained within the 1430 pages is that there is God, relationship can be found whilst fulfilling both social and personal obligations and that the true purpose and meaning of life is to liberate oneself from maya.

Jap Ji Sahib is thus questions and answers which Baba Nanak set out in Poetic form to explain, guide and better the human condition. It was purely from a spiritual perspective amidst the mega faiths of Hinduism and Islam that prompted the need. So the pauri in question, socha soch was recited to rebutt what otherwise was considered holy in Hindu practice, that is, batihing for cleanliness of body and stillness of mind.

Baba Nanak in the first 4 verses explains that the bathing, silencing, restricting and the intelligenica are to no avail. Then a question is thrown in, kiv sacharya hoi'ya kiv kura tuta pal [hey Nanak, how can one become pure and break this wall of illusion so that Akal Purakh is in view] ? Maharaj answers, hukum ra'jaiye chulna Nanak likaya nal [walk within the parameters of Eternal Law and you'll surpass].

The message Nanak has for humankind is that, be good, do good and know good.

Much obliged