Where Have All The True Sikhs Gone

[Harry Haller]

Gurfatehji

A few days ago, I noticed a turbaned Sikh outside my shop, so I had a little chat, he spoke no english, I speak a little Punjabi, we nodded and chatted, and off he went.

Yesterday, he came into the shop, I beamed, sat him down, and we chatted about Indian politics, ritual, the state of Sikhism, the DG, although he was not quite sure what the DG was, but we had a great old conversation.

He then smiled and asked if he could have a laptop for free. I do not think the fellow was hugely well off, and although I was a bit taken aback by the request, I thought, ok, why not, I have a stash of old laptops in the back that I am only to happy to give away for free sometimes, so I agreed. I brought it out, showed him, explained that being a P3 900Mhz, it would have XP on, but it would be a bit slow on the internet. He seemed very happy, and wanted to take it away there and then, I explained I would have to put XP on, and to come back tomorrow, he offered to wait, I explained I was busy, but again, to come back tomorrow, and then he left.

Telling the story to a family member later, I was warned that I had acted naively, and that I would probably expect many many more requests once word had got round. I was told that my attitude was wrong, and would only get me into trouble.


Now I really could not see the big deal, I give laptops away all the time, especially older ones, you cannot sell them, so they may as well be put to use rather than in the bin, ok it takes a few hours to load up, but there are 5 or 6 pc's/laptops whirring away here at any one time, another really is not going to make any difference. The same family member often chastises me for not listening to Shabad/doing Path/Naam Japping. I will be honest, I get more satisfaction out of one relevant line from a Metallica song, than I do sometimes from listening to a Shabad, this is not because I do not respect Shabad, but because reading Bani, which I do often, takes time, you have to read a line, understand it, read it again, look at it from every angle, embrace it, and then live it, the only thing that happens when you listen to Shabad is that it is a pleasant tune, and it sounds nice, but I digress.

Now my points.

We seem to live in a world where it people listen to Shabad, eyes closed, heads swaying, eyes moist, who then proceed to live their day completely devoid of any need to act as the Shabad suggests, and this is accepted as OK. To go one step further, people will then advise against good actions/intentions because of setting a precedent and inviting more requests for help. I was bothered by these events yesterday, many assumed I was bothered because someone I thought wanted only a chat, actually wanted more, but I could not care less about that. I am bothered by the sheer lack of weight given to Bani.


I do not like living in fear, I do not like being scared, a while ago I realised that if I lived in Hukam as best I could, my fears vanished, sure, bad things happened, but other than doing my best for Hukam, there is nothing else I could have done, so at that point, acceptance is the key.

I would be most interested to hear others reaction to this request, for the record, the laptop is sitting behind me loading up.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone

Bhai Lehnna Ji was once conned out of his horse by a thief who pretended to be hurt by the roadside...when Bhai Sahib ji got off his horse to check and helped him on to the horse, the man immediately struck the heels and began to run off with the horse...realizing this Bhai ji ran after the thief saying..Dont tell anyone..just take the horse as a gift..otherwise people may stop helping injured people....

Previously SIKHS were a TRADEMARK for TRUTHFUL LIVING..hard labour, Honesty, no nonsense, sacrifice etc. A Sikhs word was final truth in Malaysian courts for a long time..sikh criminals were unheard of...even to find a sikh eating outside his home was a rarity.....Now ALL this is history. WE have abundance of Sikhs in prison, white collar crime blue collar crime, sex crimes, robbery, beatings, marital cases divorces, sikh Lawyers (Liars) cheaters, lazy sikhs, dishonest sikhs, and we also have an abundance of sikhs in kakaars, cholas, round turbans, muttering japps all the time, listening to cds of kirtan in their cars 24/7, akhand paaths sukhmani paaths etc 24/7 going on, gurdwaras full to overflowing, ragis dressed like entertainers huge nagar kirtans, darbars, no shortage of sikhs following babas and god men around, wiping their feet, inviting them to their homes for dinners and sessions... etc etc..
Genuine Hard working Daswnadh GivngKirtee Sikhs are a RARE BREED..a Sikh who understands Gurbani and follows it to Change his life so it SHOWS !!

 

[palaingtha]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone

What Giani Jarnail Singh Ji says is absolutely true. The Sikhs of 21st. century are searching materialistic happiness rather than living a the life Guru expected of us viz." Rehni rahey so hi Sikh mera, oh Guru men ush ka chera".
We cannot correct others but, if individually we truthfully follow Guru's Hukam our religion will reflect in all of us.
Let us pledge that from this moment we will not run after materialistic world but live the life of a TRUE SIKH and, thus bring a great revolution in Sikhism by a noble deed of "LIVING THE LIFE OF A GURSIKH".

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone

Let us not get all taliban on the subject, there is nothing hugely wrong with material happiness, provided it is kept in perspective.If you want a Mercedes, or to dine out at fine restaurants, then provided you have the means, and those means have been earned through Sikh guidelines, then that is great, there does not really need to be noble deeds either, just, as you go through life, help who you can, never turn your back away, be honest, be brave, don't worry about the outcome, better to drive the car you want, and live in the house you want, and be a rock for those around you, than live like a pauper and help no one, in my opinion

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone...

Harray Ji,
Gurmatt teaches CONTENTMENT..sehaj.. SANTOKH...awashtha of peace and shanti..a Gurmukh never chases after things..he USES them. Gurbani of Bhagats declares..rukhi suki khao peeyo praii chooppree dekh ke na tarsai jeo..Be CONTENT with what you have achieved..dont be JEALOUS about the other guys plate ....I have seen literally OVERFED members of snagat who cant take in nay more food and about to get up...have apeek into the newest member sitting down next to them..and they exclaim..OH you have a Laddoo..they were NOT SERVING laddoos when I joined the line for Langgar..I am going back to get myself a laddoo..despite the fact that when he joined the line he got a large serving of Hot Jalebis and Gulab jamuns which have been replaced by laddoos..NO hes not content..he must have the laddoos!!! That sort will never be CONTENT..
Gurmatt doesnt over encourage POVERTY as a Virtue...you dont have to wear RAGS to earn MERIT...a ragged beggar is not necesarily more virtuous than the big fatso in the Merc..its whats INside that matters...

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone...

Well my man has just come in, to my horror, he gestured at touching my feet, and smiling broadly said that I was like his father, (why does everyone think I am an old crusty, I am only 43), I asked his age, he was 30! anyhoo, I found a CD my mum had given me of Gurbani, which I played to him, and he was very happy. I rebuffed the request for headphones and wifi, but the battery held charge, we chatted for a few moments, and then I politely exclaimed I had some work to do, and with a cheery wave and a grin he was off, he was very polite, very humble, in that way that Indian Sikhs are. He seemed a bit bemused by the loud heavy metal, but he did spend some time telling me about Bangla Sahib in Delhi, the way he described it brought back memories of when I was last there, nice fella....

Yes, of course, he could sell it, and buy booze/drugs/whatever , but I feel it is not our place to second guess, our diktat is to do what we can within our power, not make ourself at a loss in order to help, but to help if such can be done comfortably, what he does after that, well that is between him and Creator, nothing to do with me

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone...

I will be honest, I get more satisfaction out of one relevant line from a Metallica song,

ਭੈਰਉ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
Bhairao, Fourth Mehl:

ਬੋਲਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਫਲ ਸਾ ਘਰੀ ॥
Fruitful is that moment when the Lord's Name is spoken.

ਗੁਰ ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਸਭਿ ਦੁਖ ਪਰਹਰੀ ॥੧॥
Following the Guru's Teachings, all pains are taken away. ||1||

ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਭਜੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਰਹਰੀ ॥
O my mind, vibrate the Name of the Lord.

ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਮੇਲਹੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਿੰਧੁ ਭਉ ਤਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
O Lord, be merciful, and unite me with the Perfect Guru. Joining with the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, I shall cross over the terrifying world-ocean.

ਜਗਜੀਵਨੁ ਧਿਆਇ ਮਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰੀ ॥
Meditate on the Life of the World; remember the Lord in your mind.

ਕੋਟ ਕੋਟੰਤਰ ਤੇਰੇ ਪਾਪ ਪਰਹਰੀ ॥੨॥
Millions upon millions of your sins shall be taken away. ||2||

ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਾਧ ਧੂਰਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਰੀ ॥
In the Sat Sangat, apply the dust of the feet of the holy to your face;

ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕੀਓ ਅਠਸਠਿ ਸੁਰਸਰੀ ॥੩॥
this is how to bathe in the sixty-eight sacred shrines, and the Ganges. ||3||

ਹਮ ਮੂਰਖ ਕਉ ਹਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੀ ॥
I am a fool; the Lord has shown mercy to me.

ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਾਰਿਓ ਤਾਰਣ ਹਰੀ ॥੪॥੨॥
The Savior Lord has saved servant Nanak. ||4||2||

Many people will question the idea of Dasvandh or just say we do whatever we can. Well the idea of 10% is a simple one (not sure if it is the same no in Rehat or Gurmat). And 10% is the min donation amount. Just like Nitnem is the min baani you should read daily.

 

[Rory]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone...

Harry-ji you're an inspiration, I have learnt a lot from you via this forum.

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone...

ਭੈਰਉ ਮਹਲਾ ੪ ॥
Bhairao, Fourth Mehl:

ਬੋਲਿ ਹਰਿ ਨਾਮੁ ਸਫਲ ਸਾ ਘਰੀ ॥
Fruitful is that moment when the Lord's Name is spoken.

ਗੁਰ ਉਪਦੇਸਿ ਸਭਿ ਦੁਖ ਪਰਹਰੀ ॥੧॥
Following the Guru's Teachings, all pains are taken away. ||1||

ਮੇਰੇ ਮਨ ਹਰਿ ਭਜੁ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਰਹਰੀ ॥
O my mind, vibrate the Name of the Lord.

ਕਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਮੇਲਹੁ ਗੁਰੁ ਪੂਰਾ ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਸੰਗਿ ਸਿੰਧੁ ਭਉ ਤਰੀ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
O Lord, be merciful, and unite me with the Perfect Guru. Joining with the Sat Sangat, the True Congregation, I shall cross over the terrifying world-ocean.

ਜਗਜੀਵਨੁ ਧਿਆਇ ਮਨਿ ਹਰਿ ਸਿਮਰੀ ॥
Meditate on the Life of the World; remember the Lord in your mind.

ਕੋਟ ਕੋਟੰਤਰ ਤੇਰੇ ਪਾਪ ਪਰਹਰੀ ॥੨॥
Millions upon millions of your sins shall be taken away. ||2||

ਸਤਸੰਗਤਿ ਸਾਧ ਧੂਰਿ ਮੁਖਿ ਪਰੀ ॥
In the Sat Sangat, apply the dust of the feet of the holy to your face;

ਇਸਨਾਨੁ ਕੀਓ ਅਠਸਠਿ ਸੁਰਸਰੀ ॥੩॥
this is how to bathe in the sixty-eight sacred shrines, and the Ganges. ||3||

ਹਮ ਮੂਰਖ ਕਉ ਹਰਿ ਕਿਰਪਾ ਕਰੀ ॥
I am a fool; the Lord has shown mercy to me.

ਜਨੁ ਨਾਨਕੁ ਤਾਰਿਓ ਤਾਰਣ ਹਰੀ ॥੪॥੨॥
The Savior Lord has saved servant Nanak. ||4||2||

Many people will question the idea of Dasvandh or just say we do whatever we can. Well the idea of 10% is a simple one (not sure if it is the same no in Rehat or Gurmat). And 10% is the min donation amount. Just like Nitnem is the min baani you should read daily.

The two words that strike out at me are 'min' and 'should'.

Now Sikhism being a religion of love, Why are we talking about minimums and shoulds?


I love my wife, I like to call her up when shes working and tell her I love her, I am not sure how she would feel if I drew up a minimum amount of times I should call her a day expressing my love.

I love Creation, I love Creator, I love the word of Creator, that is Bani, setting minimums and shoulds seems to cheapen it, ritualise it, where is the love in that?

Should is a word associated with something not mired in love, I should mow the lawn, I should lose weight, you never hear it associated with something pleasant, I should eat that cake, I should make love to my wife.

Even when it refers to something pleasant, the inference is that it is not going to be pleasant, if someone were to say, I should go to that party, the inference is that it is an obligation, a duty,

just my opinion

 

[Luckysingh]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone...

Harry ji,
Giving a laptop that would just be sat around and eventually binned was the correct thing to do. It is exactly what I would have done, I just could not have said 'no, it will cost you'
Forget what others say about the word getting around and that you've been abused or taken for a ride, this is ALL nonsense as you clearly know.

What he does with the laptop after, wether he abuses it for porn or sells it or maybe just uses it to skype back home- like you say, is NOT your issue. Any wrong doing anticipated after your kind help should not concern your action. Gurmat and being a true helper is for NOW and the MOMENT in time, not for next day, next week or next year.

The problem with society and even some close family around you is that they love to criticize others actions. If you do something out of greed and self pleasure, then you will be rightfully corrected by critics, however doing a good deed and helping someone in need can also cause much criticism.

I too, have often encountered this. I used to encounter a lot of tramps back in UK, and I would often give whatever spare change I had or even a fiver if I had no loose change.
I never had the heart to refuse and say no or even to think like others that reply 'get out of my way you scum'...etc....etc..
If someone were with me, then I would often hear a remark such as, ''he's only going to buy cider with that'' or ''he's only going to get some more drugs''...etc....etc... -Hearing this, it never made me doubt my action, I always felt correct and still do with my help of kindness. I am simply facing an encounter with someone where our paths are crossing, It is simply (A) giving to (B), if whoever or whatever (B) does with it after, is a path that he will cross with another. God is NOT going to judge me on that 2nd path, that is between them and creator.

Even at home, I would get criticised in sarcastic ways if I picked up the phone whilst watching children in need or similar. I often got remarks because I gave hundreds regularly to UNICF.- It would always be along the lines of ''they pocket that money themselves' or ''how do you know all of it will get there?''....etc..
In these instances you do verify that it is a legal charity ..etc..BUT in the same manner, I am just (A) giving to (C), via a route through (B). If (B) decides NOT to give to (C), then they have been unfaithful not only to themselves but also to Me and (C)!!- ...-That again, is NOT my path to be judging.
AT my moment and place, I have given to the correct being at that time and place. - MY conscious is clear and will still remain clear, even if it doesn't reach the destination.

I think, that is what really matters- about doing the right thing at the right moment in these instances.

You are a good man for following your instinct and doing the right thing. I wish that everyone had this attitude.
Although it is your work and business, I feel that it is in this environment that the ''real'' help and charity comes into play. There are many that will refuse, because in a business it is considered negative and seen as loosing x amount. But this same person that refuses may do a sponsored run for charity on the weekend!!
--- Well, you can see that this person has a view that work is work ie..business, and charity is charity.... It doesn't take much to figure out which act is more gurmat and who makes a ''real'' decison that can actually matter.

I think you are wise enough to not pay too much attention to others that may critic your charitable actions and you can see that it doesn't matter if the charity may feel that they are abusing your trust and taking you for a ride. It is your Conscious that is kept clear by living and acting in gurmatt manner during ALL moments.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone...

The two words that strike out at me are 'min' and 'should'.

Now Sikhism being a religion of love, Why are we talking about minimums and shoulds?

That is a whole different question. But religion has spiritual and temporal elements. Reading Gurbani could help you fight how Kam Krodh Lobh Moh Ahankar affect you in daily life. You just make estimates of what Paath you should do based on how much of these vices you will face as you go in daily life. That is why Nitnem is well timed for the start of day and once when work is over, and was probably advised by Guru Sahib and followed by Panj Pyare.

I love my wife, I like to call her up when shes working and tell her I love her, I am not sure how she would feel if I drew up a minimum amount of times I should call her a day expressing my love.

But if you don't do it for a year, you might come to think you should do it atleast once a year

I love Creation, I love Creator, I love the word of Creator, that is Bani, setting minimums and shoulds seems to cheapen it, ritualise it, where is the love in that?

I think Dasvand and Nitnem are not just about love. They represent your duty towards society and your use of Gurbani to protect you in daily battle with vices.

Should is a word associated with something not mired in love, I should mow the lawn, I should lose weight, you never hear it associated with something pleasant, I should eat that cake, I should make love to my wife.

That is like me saying, you should take medicine if your cough is not going away. The whole Rehat Maryada is about how we could try live our lives in spirit of Gurbani in midst of Maya, not forgetting the Creator. You would love to do these things if they help you remember the Creator.

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone...

I think you are wise enough to not pay too much attention to others that may critic your charitable actions and you can see that it doesn't matter if the charity may feel that they are abusing your trust and taking you for a ride. It is your Conscious that is kept clear by living and acting in gurmatt manner during ALL moments.

Luckyji

Many thanks for your kind comments, your validation means a lot to me. I think wisdom is overstated though, I do not consider myself wise at all, I am not very sharp, cute, call it what you will, I used to be, in my youth, but a certain way of life has left me a bit dulled. I know sharp people, and they are incredibly quick, astute, it is actually for this reason that Hukam is so important to me, because I do not have to be wise, Guruji is wise, I can just be me and leave the wisdom to Creator.

kaurhug

 

[Harry Haller]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone...

That is a whole different question. But religion has spiritual and temporal elements. Reading Gurbani could help you fight how Kam Krodh Lobh Moh Ahankar affect you in daily life. You just make estimates of what Paath you should do based on how much of these vices you will face as you go in daily life. That is why Nitnem is well timed for the start of day and once when work is over, and was probably advised by Guru Sahib and followed by Panj Pyare

I love the way you have written this, so many of us, myself included fall in the trap of stating what we feel as gospel, you have written this beautifully, without stating it to be the truth, but with enough conviction that it is believable, some could do well to copy your writing style. In fact it is written so well, rather than an outright disagreement, I am going to agree with you. That is not to say it is right for me, I feel it is not, not at this stage in my life. I am at present battling lust, and have for 9 days now, been free of it. I fight it with love, I fill myself with love, I physically connect with people, animals, I hug all my customers, I stop every dog I I see and talk to them, I find this is working wonders with my lust. However if it ever fails, I will take your advice.

But if you don't do it for a year, you might come to think you should do it atleast once a year

If I did not do it for a year, it would be best to divorce, rather than force myself

I think Dasvand and Nitnem are not just about love. They represent your duty towards society and your use of Gurbani to protect you in daily battle with vices.

We differ slightly here, I believe the vices can be won over with understanding, rather than repetition of Bani. You have to understand them, really understand them, for instance, if I feel angry, Naam Japping may work , but I prefer to figure out why I am angry, and realise how utterly pointless it is, and move on. Or if I feel ego, to look at myself in the mirror, and understand how pathetic and ridiculous my thoughts are. I think there is a daily battle, but it is not to battle with ourselves, the battle is act in our role as spiritual policemen to the rest of Creation. To shine a light on Creation, expose injustice, help the weak, support the downtrodden, to be fair, to bring support where there is grief, etc etc, a bit like Batman I guess, but while simultaneously eating an aloo prontha.

That is like me saying, you should take medicine if your cough is not going away.

Interesting, that makes Bani the medicine, Guruji the doctor, however, no one enjoys medicine, so I think this analogy is flawed. I would say Bani is more like going to the gym. It is enjoyable, healthy, good for you, addictive, a way of life, it is the difference between 'I should go to the gym' and 'I love going to the gym'

 

[itsmaneet]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone

What Giani Jarnail Singh Ji says is absolutely true. The Sikhs of 21st. century are searching materialistic happiness rather than living a the life Guru expected of us viz." Rehni rahey so hi Sikh mera, oh Guru men ush ka chera".
We cannot correct others but, if individually we truthfully follow Guru's Hukam our religion will reflect in all of us.
Let us pledge that from this moment we will not run after materialistic world but live the life of a TRUE SIKH and, thus bring a great revolution in Sikhism by a noble deed of "LIVING THE LIFE OF A GURSIKH".

Using materialistic/worldly things are fine BUT even during their usage thankfulness/remembrance should be towards 'Almighty'

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone

Using materialistic/worldly things are fine BUT even during their usage thankfulness/remembrance should be towards 'Almighty'

WE Sikhs dont have to feel "guilty" about being materialistic...our Gurus Never said we cant earn huge salaries..big bonuses..drive merc or bmws..wear finest clothes or live in mansions...we can and should strive for the BEST in EVERYTHING...if we are a Doctor...BE the BEST and get the BEST REWARDS...BUT..be Thankful to HIM...give your DASWANDH...be kind and generous...look at each HUMAN as your OWN...and DONT even dream of taking whats not YOURS....Haak Praya Nanaka us SOOR us Gayeh... Gurmatt is simple really..we make it confusing and difficult. Look at BILL GATES..or the Walmart Guy...they give so much and so generously..imho they are more GURSIKH than many so called Gursikhs i know..and certainly holier than the Birlas Tatas and Ambanis....KIRT karnee and Waand Shhaknna are the hallmarks of a Good Sikh..NOT POVERTY or RAGS and MUD HUTS.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Harry ji for me it was not gospel, but a few months of doing the morning Baanis with some Sikhs that changed me. Since then I have come to see it as my way. I miss them sometimes, or do them late. Sometimes I eat without doing Paath other times I don't.

I am at present battling lust, and have for 9 days now, been free of it. I fight it with love, I fill myself with love, I physically connect with people, animals, I hug all my customers, I stop every dog I I see and talk to them, I find this is working wonders with my lust. However if it ever fails, I will take your advice.

That is nice. Will try that. But am awkward when I try hugging people.

If I did not do it for a year, it would be best to divorce, rather than force myself

That's the thing, beyond some point, if you don't do some given set of things, you feel like you are not living up. I feel the same every time I miss the Paath. I don't wake up early in the morning and I feel the daily need. But I lose it to my mind.

There are many people who don't say love you to each other for years. They are yet really close. Now what will one do if both wife and husband can't speak.

The idea is everyone defines their own baselines. But in Sangat, what some people revere as Guru Khalsa Panth, people have maintained the baseline of Nitnem and Dasvand.

We differ slightly here, I believe the vices can be won over with understanding, rather than repetition of Bani. You have to understand them, really understand them, for instance, if I feel angry, Naam Japping may work , but I prefer to figure out why I am angry, and realise how utterly pointless it is, and move on. Or if I feel ego, to look at myself in the mirror, and understand how pathetic and ridiculous my thoughts are. I think there is a daily battle, but it is not to battle with ourselves, the battle is act in our role as spiritual policemen to the rest of Creation. To shine a light on Creation, expose injustice, help the weak, support the downtrodden, to be fair, to bring support where there is grief, etc etc, a bit like Batman I guess, but while simultaneously eating an aloo prontha.

Baani is all about understanding your mind. And most of the time, while reading Bani, the dialogue is with your mind. E.g. In Anand Sahib, Eh Mann Pyareya Tu Sada Sach Samaale. Nitnem is for your daily battle. The personal ones.

Again policemen could have different context for different people. Police in India is so different from one in US and one in UK/Canada. Batman I can relate with

Interesting, that makes Bani the medicine, Guruji the doctor, however, no one enjoys medicine, so I think this analogy is flawed. I would say Bani is more like going to the gym. It is enjoyable, healthy, good for you, addictive, a way of life, it is the difference between 'I should go to the gym' and 'I love going to the gym'

Guru Sahib has defined Bani and Naam as Aukhad. You could consider it like sweet nectar of a medicine, not the bitter one. It is surprising that some people are afraid of reading Gurbani lest it should give them Bairaag. E.g. my mom cannot read Salok Mahalla 9 as it breaks down her reality.

The difference between 'I should go' or 'I love to go' to gym is the fact that the former goes for 2-3 days and gives up. While the latter makes a life out of it.

 

[namjiwankaur]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone

Sat Nam

Gyani Jarnail Singh ji

I am learning that the more people who follow a religion, the more chance there is of "going astray" in some way. And usually it is caused by something that sociologists would explain well. Either poverty or oppression can cause this. Also, maybe there are Sikhs who are born Sikh, but develop a more secular life because they somehow couldn't find the Divine through the religion of their birth.

I was baptized a Christian as a baby and I never "felt Christian". Thankfully, in the 90s, I worked in a library and started exploring other religions. Then the internet came along and I had a wealth of information and opportunities to find the best path for me.

Just as there are many Jews who identify as ethnically Jewish, but are atheist and secular, could it be this is also happening in the Sikh community?

What bothers me is when someone of a religion commits a crime and somehow every person who practices that religion is assumed to be guilty of the crime.

My question, what could save these Sikhs? What guidance do they need or are they lost causes? I participate in prison ministry and it has taught me so much about "there but for the grace of God go I".

How easy it is to take a wrong turn on any path. I think that the reaction of Bhai Lehnna Ji would show that criminal the path of love. And it is so much more powerful to offer an experience of Love to the lost than to speak about how to experience Love.

How do we ever find a way to describe Him/Her? Bhai Lehnna Ji met this criminal on the spiritual path and while they shared that path for a very short time there was a sweet fragrant experience (and who knows maybe the thief contemplated on what happened w/ the horse and found his way to Love).

gingerteakaur

Bhai Lehnna Ji was once conned out of his horse by a thief who pretended to be hurt by the roadside...when Bhai Sahib ji got off his horse to check and helped him on to the horse, the man immediately struck the heels and began to run off with the horse...realizing this Bhai ji ran after the thief saying..Dont tell anyone..just take the horse as a gift..otherwise people may stop helping injured people....

Previously SIKHS were a TRADEMARK for TRUTHFUL LIVING..hard labour, Honesty, no nonsense, sacrifice etc. A Sikhs word was final truth in Malaysian courts for a long time..sikh criminals were unheard of...even to find a sikh eating outside his home was a rarity.....Now ALL this is history. WE have abundance of Sikhs in prison, white collar crime blue collar crime, sex crimes, robbery, beatings, marital cases divorces, sikh Lawyers (Liars) cheaters, lazy sikhs, dishonest sikhs, and we also have an abundance of sikhs in kakaars, cholas, round turbans, muttering japps all the time, listening to cds of kirtan in their cars 24/7, akhand paaths sukhmani paaths etc 24/7 going on, gurdwaras full to overflowing, ragis dressed like entertainers huge nagar kirtans, darbars, no shortage of sikhs following babas and god men around, wiping their feet, inviting them to their homes for dinners and sessions... etc etc..
Genuine Hard working Daswnadh GivngKirtee Sikhs are a RARE BREED..a Sikh who understands Gurbani and follows it to Change his life so it SHOWS !!

 

[Rory]

The problem with society and even some close family around you is that they love to criticize others actions. If you do something out of greed and self pleasure, then you will be rightfully corrected by critics, however doing a good deed and helping someone in need can also cause much criticism.

So true. As someone said on a different thread, critics are a dime-a-dozen.
Harry-ji it sounds like your critics are jealous of your good will and your confidence to act on it. Congratulations for not letting that sway you.
peacesign

 

[palaingtha]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone

WE Sikhs dont have to feel "guilty" about being materialistic...our Gurus Never said we cant earn huge salaries..big bonuses..drive merc or bmws..wear finest clothes or live in mansions...we can and should strive for the BEST in EVERYTHING...if we are a Doctor...BE the BEST and get the BEST REWARDS...BUT..be Thankful to HIM...give your DASWANDH...be kind and generous...look at each HUMAN as your OWN...and DONT even dream of taking whats not YOURS....Haak Praya Nanaka us SOOR us Gayeh... Gurmatt is simple really..we make it confusing and difficult. Look at BILL GATES..or the Walmart Guy...they give so much and so generously..imho they are more GURSIKH than many so called Gursikhs i know..and certainly holier than the Birlas Tatas and Ambanis....KIRT karnee and Waand Shhaknna are the hallmarks of a Good Sikh..NOT POVERTY or RAGS and MUD HUTS.

I beg to differ with Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji on TWO points.
1) .. be the BEST and get BEST AWARDS...
My comments:- One should try to outshine in his chosen profession but a True Sikh should not hanker for better or best awards. He should be content for having done his duty and paid for his services. Now adays professional people are after accumulating wealth by hook or crook, like doctors fixing high fees or charging exorbitantly for their medical services, etc., Lawyer cheating their clients or charging unreasonably higher fees, the businessman, the engineers, the Accountants and others doing the same type of unethical practices. All ( mostly ) have their vision fixed on accumulating wealth by hook or crook.
2) ..BILL GATES & WALMART GUY are more Gur Sikhs than many.....
My comments: One is a Sikh only when he believes in the Sikh Guru Sahibans and Guru Granth Sahib etc.
One may agree that they are good human beings and are philanthropists but far from being SIKHS at all.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

Re: Where are have all the true Sikhs gone

I beg to differ with Gyani Jarnail Singh Ji on TWO points.
1) .. be the BEST and get BEST AWARDS...
My comments:- One should try to outshine in his chosen profession but a True Sikh should not hanker for better or best awards. He should be content for having done his duty and paid for his services. Now adays professional people are after accumulating wealth by hook or crook, like doctors fixing high fees or charging exorbitantly for their medical services, etc., Lawyer cheating their clients or charging unreasonably higher fees, the businessman, the engineers, the Accountants and others doing the same type of unethical practices. All ( mostly ) have their vision fixed on accumulating wealth by hook or crook.
2) ..BILL GATES & WALMART GUY are more Gur Sikhs than many.....
My comments: One is a Sikh only when he believes in the Sikh Guru Sahibans and Guru Granth Sahib etc.
One may agree that they are good human beings and are philanthropists but far from being SIKHS at all.

Gurupiyario jios,

1. my word is "REWARDS"..not AWARDS.
Reward is Salary/renumeration/pay/bonus etc. This is perfectly in line with HONEST KIRT...Honest Labour. IF a carpenter makes the Best manjas..he is perfectly entitled to get the Best rewards..that is best PRICE. Hes under no obligation to just sell at Throw away prices/give away prices/etc etc like buy 2 get one free...I just Bought an excellent Manja and paid a PREMIUM PRICE - almost DOUBLE the factory made manja price in the market..this manja is hand made lovingly decorated with nice designs, oiled choolas so its totally silent when i move on it while sleeping..perfectly balanced legs, paavahs rock solid and huge...for ME its the BEST manja at the BEST PRICE. I certainly would not go around asking to buy a BMW at Maruti price and then accuse the dealer of trying to cheat me ?? or accuse him of ....and make him feel guilty ?? No jios. BEST DESERVES BEST IN RETURN.

2. You have made a distinction between "SIKH" * those wearing turbans, beards, kirpan gatras, commonly seen in and around Gurdwaras.....and "sikhs" like Bll Gates, Marrett of Walmart, etc. To my mind there is NO DISTINCTION.
Reason:.....many among those that LOOK like Sikhs and mass in Gurdwaras, nagar Kirtans, Kirtan darbars..etc..also bow to Hanumans and Shiv Lings, gift chadars at Muslim graves, matha tek here and there bathing at sarovars and ganga rivers tying maulees red strings to wrists, keeping fasts and chholay parshaad at shnnivaar....everywhere..DONT KNOW a SINGLE LINE of Gurbani, Cannot tell you the names of the 10 Gurus in full and good order, ...etc etc etc...seldom if ever take out full daswandh, and follow none of what SGGS says or SRM ordains...YET they are STILL "SIKHS"..becasue they are Jatt, Punjabi, born in Sikh families.Thats the complete Qualification LIST for such SIKHS.

The other type..like Bill gates may not have even heard of Guur Nanak..have never visited a Gurdwara..or worn a dastaar or beard..know no punjabi or anything like thta..YET their "ACTIONS"..Kirt karnee Waand Chhaknna, do Good donate generously etc etc..maybe qualify them a LOT more to be SIKH than the jatt punjabi clean shaven munda singing filthy songs on stage but still SIKH !! This SECOND type has way more chance of becoming a GURSIKH than the First type..they are SUNK.

Just my opinions Jios..no offense to anyone. I Personally KNOW a lot of SIKHS of the SECOND category who i respect much more than the First type...