- Jul 14, 2007
- 4,576
- 1,609
Thank you Sir, for pointing out the saints. Gurbani also contains some references to saint in various contexts.I am sharing these with the sangat
1
swD jnw qy bwhrI sy rhin iekylVIAwh ] (135-10, mwJ, mÚ 5)
Those who lack the Company of the Holy, remain all alone.
2.
syvw sw iqsu BwvsI sMqw kI hoie Cwru ] (137-2, mwJ, mÚ 5)
He has no end or limitation. That service is pleasing to Him, which makes one humble, like the dust of the feet of the Saints.
Even the meeting with Saint is pre-destined as per gurbani.
swDu imlY pUrb sMjog ] (153-2, gauVI, mÚ 1)
One meets the Holy Saint only through perfect destiny.
There are many references and can be quoted if required by someone.I stand completely answered. Gurbani contains the meaning of almost every term.. I am very slow in picking up.
Regards
1
swD jnw qy bwhrI sy rhin iekylVIAwh ] (135-10, mwJ, mÚ 5)
Those who lack the Company of the Holy, remain all alone.
2.
syvw sw iqsu BwvsI sMqw kI hoie Cwru ] (137-2, mwJ, mÚ 5)
He has no end or limitation. That service is pleasing to Him, which makes one humble, like the dust of the feet of the Saints.
Even the meeting with Saint is pre-destined as per gurbani.
swDu imlY pUrb sMjog ] (153-2, gauVI, mÚ 1)
One meets the Holy Saint only through perfect destiny.
There are many references and can be quoted if required by someone.I stand completely answered. Gurbani contains the meaning of almost every term.. I am very slow in picking up.
Regards
in my humble opinion "Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji" is the only TRUE SAINT that one can believe in today's world, respected seeker07 ji.
all that is needed: UNCONDITIONAL LOVE COUPLED WITH UNSHAKABLE BELIEF and THEN WALKING IN THAT BELIEF WITH RESPECT.
retired a long time back, just dropping in for this message only.
humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness...
all that is needed: UNCONDITIONAL LOVE COUPLED WITH UNSHAKABLE BELIEF and THEN WALKING IN THAT BELIEF WITH RESPECT.
retired a long time back, just dropping in for this message only.
humbly asking for everybody's forgiveness...
at Surinder Kaur Cheema
In your humble opinion "Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji" is the only TRUE SAINT that one can believe in today's world.
First of all how do you know that Sri guru granth sahib is the only true saint?
Have you checked all other saints in the world? Have you examined all other enlightened people in the world?
AND moreover you need to be at a higher authority than sggs and all other saints in the world, to judge them, and to conclude that sggs is the only true saint.Its like a teacher examines her students and then concludes that one of them is the best. So you mean that you are higher than all the saints and sggs{sri guru granth sahib}? If you are not at a higher authority, if you are not at a level of higher understanding than sggs and all other saints, then how can you judge and conclude?
So i dont think your opinion is humble, on the contrary your opinion is very authoritative.
Then you say "in todays world". So have you seen all other worlds? have you seen the yesterday's world? Have you seen the times when guru nanak was in body?If not then please dont use this word, as if you are god, and you have seen all the worlds, and you know everything, and that only sri guru granth sahib is the true saint.
If guru granth sahib is the true guru, then why is it not mentioned in gurugranth sahib itself?
I cannot find a single line in guru granth sahib, that says "hey people, this granth sahib is the true guru"
Its all about the love, the poetry, the fragrance of the saints.
Nothing like what you are trying to say in your post.
In your humble opinion "Dhan Dhan Siri Guru Granth Sahib Ji" is the only TRUE SAINT that one can believe in today's world.
First of all how do you know that Sri guru granth sahib is the only true saint?
Have you checked all other saints in the world? Have you examined all other enlightened people in the world?
AND moreover you need to be at a higher authority than sggs and all other saints in the world, to judge them, and to conclude that sggs is the only true saint.Its like a teacher examines her students and then concludes that one of them is the best. So you mean that you are higher than all the saints and sggs{sri guru granth sahib}? If you are not at a higher authority, if you are not at a level of higher understanding than sggs and all other saints, then how can you judge and conclude?
So i dont think your opinion is humble, on the contrary your opinion is very authoritative.
Then you say "in todays world". So have you seen all other worlds? have you seen the yesterday's world? Have you seen the times when guru nanak was in body?If not then please dont use this word, as if you are god, and you have seen all the worlds, and you know everything, and that only sri guru granth sahib is the true saint.
If guru granth sahib is the true guru, then why is it not mentioned in gurugranth sahib itself?
I cannot find a single line in guru granth sahib, that says "hey people, this granth sahib is the true guru"
Its all about the love, the poetry, the fragrance of the saints.
Nothing like what you are trying to say in your post.
In the gurmat vichaar thread sadhu ji, Sri Guru Granth Sahib Maharaj is the highest authority. So posts will be moved to a different section if there is a trend to the contrary in the discussion.
To state that there is a higher authority on a Sikh forum hints at the desire to undermine Sikh belief. Mod note: aad0002
To state that there is a higher authority on a Sikh forum hints at the desire to undermine Sikh belief. Mod note: aad0002
The One line that Sadhu ji missed is..
Bani GURU.. Guru hai BANI..wich BANI AMRIT SAREH.
ALL the "AMRIT" is in the GURBANI - NONE OUTSIDE.
Double Jeopardy - Guru is Bani..Bani is GURU..and Bani contains ALL the AMRIT - Sareh is PLURAL..covers ALL.
No other testimony needed to prove Gurta of SGGS. Final.
2. WHY do the fake "human gurus" need the GURBANI of SGGS to bolster them up ? (0% of their so called teachings/vichaar are centred on Gurbani from SGGS..IF they are the "higher authority" why cant they write their own ORIGINAL BANI ?? why do they continue from 10th nanak to..11th, 12, 13th and so on..WHY NOT FIRST in their own RIGHT ??.
AAD Ji, please contineu to be vigilant aginst all such undermining attempts. To ALL SIKHS only and ONLY SGGS is SUPREME AUTHORITY. None else comes close.
Bani GURU.. Guru hai BANI..wich BANI AMRIT SAREH.
ALL the "AMRIT" is in the GURBANI - NONE OUTSIDE.
Double Jeopardy - Guru is Bani..Bani is GURU..and Bani contains ALL the AMRIT - Sareh is PLURAL..covers ALL.
No other testimony needed to prove Gurta of SGGS. Final.
2. WHY do the fake "human gurus" need the GURBANI of SGGS to bolster them up ? (0% of their so called teachings/vichaar are centred on Gurbani from SGGS..IF they are the "higher authority" why cant they write their own ORIGINAL BANI ?? why do they continue from 10th nanak to..11th, 12, 13th and so on..WHY NOT FIRST in their own RIGHT ??.
AAD Ji, please contineu to be vigilant aginst all such undermining attempts. To ALL SIKHS only and ONLY SGGS is SUPREME AUTHORITY. None else comes close.
Gyani ji
I did not choose Sikhism. I was chosen. So I have the duty to uphold the core of faith that liberates us. If this sounds horribly stuffy -- then it has to be that way. The window is always open. Light and fresh air enter. Everything is cool and relaxed. Because we have Guruji and we are rescued from the intellectual traps of "religious guides" who are on ego trips.
I did not choose Sikhism. I was chosen. So I have the duty to uphold the core of faith that liberates us. If this sounds horribly stuffy -- then it has to be that way. The window is always open. Light and fresh air enter. Everything is cool and relaxed. Because we have Guruji and we are rescued from the intellectual traps of "religious guides" who are on ego trips.
Very good point and this messsage needs to be spread.
The fight about current Guru and Shabad Guru can be finally concluded if this clear line of thought is taken. All people in religious duties help in showing the path but they are not originators and PERHAPS, that was the reason that guru Granth Sahib Ji is our Guru... and continue to be. Have we seen such fight in christianians or muslims about Bible or Quran?
May be it is a number game. They are so big that it is not easy to buy some of their leaders or plant them and try to change the direction. But here , they can easily promote dasam granth controversy.
If we go by the same logic, it is not easy to achieve our own space by militant action. It has to have economic and social push.
The movement failed in eighties because of social problem ( each family had a sob story of untimely death or exploitation by .... so called...our own people). Economic activity was slowed ... people need to earn first and then go for other things like own nation.
let us assume that two separate line of followers emerge. What are we supposed to do/ Should we throw all people accepting dasam granth also as equal Guru(... even though I am sure even they do not think that ) ?
After all nothing can be forced.
"Saint" and "Sant" are two dfferent things. Saints or Sainthood is a Christian concept. A Saint is annoited by the Pope, and only if atleast two miracles can be credited to his name.
jasbir ji
Thanks for making this point. I was pondering your exact thought last night. A "saint" in Christianity must be dead before even being able to rise to candidacy for "sainthood" and there is a lengthy process of investigation before the Pope declares someone a saint. In fact, there is a years long judicial process, conducted according the Canon Law, in a Vatican court and legal offices, where advocates for the "saint" and advocates against the saint argue over evidence. It can take years.
One of my closest friends and 8 members of her family are in fact "witnesses" in a current investigation which has reached the final stages. The "case" of Don Guanella, a Servant of Charity, in the Roman church. She, her mother, her brother and sister-in-law, and several others may be called to Rome at any time now to "testify."
"Sant" in the Indic/dharmic tradition means something else completely.
Archived_Member16
SPNer
Very educational reading:
Role of Sangat and Sant in the Panth
Yuktanand Singh
Saline, Michigan
Link: http://sikhspirit.com/khalsa/news62.htm
Role of Sangat and Sant in the Panth
Yuktanand Singh
Saline, Michigan
Link: http://sikhspirit.com/khalsa/news62.htm
Khalsaji,
This is a burning topic. If you go to Punjab almost every third village is having
a so called Sant. These sants are wll armed, they move around in luxery
cars and with a lot of armed bodyguards. They have Kutias(Huts) with lot of ACs. They have latest cellphones. They have lot of degrees prefixed to their names e.g. 108, 1008, Maha tyagi, Maha Tapaswi, Sant Shiromani, Param Pujneek, Brahm Gyani, and what not. Who gives them these degrees?
If we go through our history, we find Baba Budha ji, Bhai Mati Das ji,
Bhai Sati Dasji, Bhai Dayalaji, Four Saibjadas, Chalee Mukte and hundred of other personalites which lived during life time of Ten Gurus but were never called Sants. Guru Maharaj honoured them as Baba Or Shaheed. Why Sants have started surfacing now? Where were they during hard days?
SGPC failed in it's mission of Prachaar, Maintenance of Langars and Gurdwaras and hence created a vaccum for these so called Sants/Babas.
Please see some of the slogans for the present
ਖਾਲਸਾ ਜੀ ਜਾਗੋ, ਸੰਤ ਬਾਬੇ ਤ੍ਯਾਗੋ.
ਸਿਖ ਪੰਥ ਬਚਾਓ, ਸੰਤ ਬਾਬੇ ਭਜਾਓ.
ਜੇ ਕਰ ਸਿਖ ਨੂ ਸਿਖ ਨਾ ਮਾਰੇ, ਸਿਖ ਪੰਥ ਕਦੇ ਨਾ ਹਾਰੇ
ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਸਨ ਗੁਰਦਵਾਰੇ ਕਚੇ ਪਰ ਸਿਖ ਸਨ ਪੱਕੇ, ਹੁਣ ਗੁਰਦਵਾਰੇ ਹੋ ਗਏ ਪੱਕੇ ਤੇ ਸਿਖ ਹੋ ਗਏ ਕਚੇ
This is a burning topic. If you go to Punjab almost every third village is having
a so called Sant. These sants are wll armed, they move around in luxery
cars and with a lot of armed bodyguards. They have Kutias(Huts) with lot of ACs. They have latest cellphones. They have lot of degrees prefixed to their names e.g. 108, 1008, Maha tyagi, Maha Tapaswi, Sant Shiromani, Param Pujneek, Brahm Gyani, and what not. Who gives them these degrees?
If we go through our history, we find Baba Budha ji, Bhai Mati Das ji,
Bhai Sati Dasji, Bhai Dayalaji, Four Saibjadas, Chalee Mukte and hundred of other personalites which lived during life time of Ten Gurus but were never called Sants. Guru Maharaj honoured them as Baba Or Shaheed. Why Sants have started surfacing now? Where were they during hard days?
SGPC failed in it's mission of Prachaar, Maintenance of Langars and Gurdwaras and hence created a vaccum for these so called Sants/Babas.
Please see some of the slogans for the present
ਖਾਲਸਾ ਜੀ ਜਾਗੋ, ਸੰਤ ਬਾਬੇ ਤ੍ਯਾਗੋ.
ਸਿਖ ਪੰਥ ਬਚਾਓ, ਸੰਤ ਬਾਬੇ ਭਜਾਓ.
ਜੇ ਕਰ ਸਿਖ ਨੂ ਸਿਖ ਨਾ ਮਾਰੇ, ਸਿਖ ਪੰਥ ਕਦੇ ਨਾ ਹਾਰੇ
ਪਹਿਲਾਂ ਸਨ ਗੁਰਦਵਾਰੇ ਕਚੇ ਪਰ ਸਿਖ ਸਨ ਪੱਕੇ, ਹੁਣ ਗੁਰਦਵਾਰੇ ਹੋ ਗਏ ਪੱਕੇ ਤੇ ਸਿਖ ਹੋ ਗਏ ਕਚੇ
Har ke snat na akheayeh..eh Benaras ke THUGGH.
That was in Kabir Jis time..since then ALL these THUGGHS have shifted to PUNJAB.
GURBANI being Universal Sach for all time..therefore still APPLIES....Punjab ke Thugghs.
The REAL snat is KROREH ME IK...and since the SIKH population is far from that...there is no possibility of even One sant....safets way is Only SGGS....Oner and Only SANT..Brahmgyani...Mahapurash..Guru all rolled into ONE....NONE OTHER...and most importnatly..NEVER DEMANDS money..expensive foods..padaraths..beds..luxury cars..air tickets..never gets ANGRY..annoyed...can be "accessed" anytime..24/7 without protest...available 24/7 !! FREE of any encumbrances...
That was in Kabir Jis time..since then ALL these THUGGHS have shifted to PUNJAB.
GURBANI being Universal Sach for all time..therefore still APPLIES....Punjab ke Thugghs.
The REAL snat is KROREH ME IK...and since the SIKH population is far from that...there is no possibility of even One sant....safets way is Only SGGS....Oner and Only SANT..Brahmgyani...Mahapurash..Guru all rolled into ONE....NONE OTHER...and most importnatly..NEVER DEMANDS money..expensive foods..padaraths..beds..luxury cars..air tickets..never gets ANGRY..annoyed...can be "accessed" anytime..24/7 without protest...available 24/7 !! FREE of any encumbrances...
Why blame the so-called Sants?They are basically crooks and their very servival depends on hood-winking and preying on the innocent, ignorant, gullible nincompoops, The more important question is, what is the SGPC or we,who call ourselves the enlightened ones, doing, to eradicate this menace,which,like termite, is damaging the very structure of Sikhism.
The SGPC is itself heavily INFECTED by the sant termite..in fact the QUEEN BEE is resident in SGPC.
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