Women And Akhand Paath

[Harkiran Kaur]

Question -

In Sikhi men and women are seen as equal correct?

Then why are there some who think that women can not do Akhand Paath seva? More specifically I am talking about Damdami Taksal.

I was in a debate recently with someone who said that women are not to do Akhand Paath or even sit in front of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and read to Sangat. Or be involved in preparation of amrit, or act as Panj Pyare...

If women and men are absolute equals and there is nothing in Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that says men are to be superior to women, or that there are restrictions to be placed on women that are not placed on men... where do their thoughts come from?
I thought Sikhi rejected any such things like ritual or superstition - including superstition regarding women status or inferiority?

So how does Damdami Taksal explain their thoughts on women being subordinate and not having same rights as men??

 

[Ishna]

Because Damdami Taksal is not part of mainstream Sikhi. They have a separate rehat maryada, put a lot of focus on the Dasam Granth with it's 200+ tales of women's sexual trickery, and curious restrictions like the ones you mentioned above.

That's why it's so important to stand by the SGPC Rehat Maryada despite it's failings, it's still a shining beacon of light in comparison.

Gurfateh

 

[techsingh]

Here is an article written by Harjinder Singh Dilgeer. Talks about history of Damdami Taksaal.

http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/controversies/39407-the-falsehood-of-damdami-taksal-translated.html

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

But where do they get these ideas that men are somehow more privileged than women? I never read dasam granth as I thought no book should ever take precedence over SGGS??

How can they put dasam granth above SGGS when it comes to women??

 

[Ishna]

"They don't put it above Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, they have it alongside."

I'm not sure where they get the ideas from. A natural human tendency for power, and prevailing cultural norms of patriarchy I would assume.

The panj pyare bit is an ongoing discussion right across the panth, the argument being that there were no women amongst the original panj, so why would there be women in it now. It's already been shown as a flawed argument in other threads.

You will also find cultural interference about menstruation, I'm not sure if it's within Damdami or not, that menstruating women shouldn't touch anything containing Gurbani, and some say they shouldn't even come into a Gurdwara.

It shows how discerning we must be about finding the truth, about who we associate ourselves with, and about championing Guru Sahib's actual, proper message above all else.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

There is no logic..no gurbani backing..NOTHING. Simply....."listen..Our Vaddeh babaji said it..so you better listen." is the best they can do. Same as what other derawadee/babadom/dehdharee worshippers say. IGNORE such rubbish.

 

[SaintSoldier1699]

Unfortunately it's the typical macho male dominated types of "religious" folks that always say women can't do this can't do that.

Once a kathavich at the local Gurdwara was telling a tall tale about how women cant be liberated until they are reborn as a man, only then will they get a chance to unite with the almighty. A few women reprimanded the kathavachik and challenged him and I guess he then realised the true power of women :grinningkaur:

I thought recently about this male domination and how so against Gurmat it is, how an amazing gesture of acknowledgment would it be if say the first lady jatha would do Kirtan on say International Women's day at Harmander Sahib and continue to do so going forward. Think it would put Sikhs on the map in a positive light and finally address an inequality that's glaringly obvious.

 

[aristotle]

Once a kathavich at the local Gurdwara was telling a tall tale about how women cant be liberated until they are reborn as a man, only then will they get a chance to unite with the almighty.

Sounds like Jainism to me!

 

[aristotle]

I was in a debate recently with someone who said that women are not to do Akhand Paath or even sit in front of Guru Granth Sahib Ji and read to Sangat. Or be involved in preparation of amrit, or act as Panj Pyare...

The poor man is probably unaware of the Sikh Rehat Maryada.

So how does Damdami Taksal explain their thoughts on women being subordinate and not having same rights as men??

Well, cult groups like Damdami Taksal, AKJ or Derawadis don't like much explaining.

Poor blokes can't even follow the SRM on Nitnem banis so they had to make their own versions of Nitnem and gutkas. Probably patriarchism in this way is a tool to satiate their male-egos, what to say. But there isn't any bar on persons of any gender for doing Akhand Paath. In fact, in most of the local Gurdwaras in my city, women do Sehaj Paath and Akhand Paath alongwith any other type of seva without any discrimination....and I'm not counting the Gurdwaras managed by Deras or cults.

 

[Gyani Jarnail Singh]

The poor man is probably unaware of the Sikh Rehat Maryada.



Well, cult groups like Damdami Taksal, AKJ or Derawadis don't like much explaining.

Poor blokes can't even follow the SRM on Nitnem banis so they had to make their own versions of Nitnem and gutkas. Probably patriarchism in this way is a tool to satiate their male-egos, what to say. But there isn't any bar on persons of any gender for doing Akhand Paath. In fact, in most of the local Gurdwaras in my city, women do Sehaj Paath and Akhand Paath alongwith any other type of seva without any discrimination....and I'm not counting the Gurdwaras managed by Deras or cults.

....he should have REFUSED to come out of his mother or emerge as a miscarriage !!...These people just dont get it..Guur nanak ji declared..JIT JAMMEH RAJAAN...!! How can the ISSUE be greater than the ISSUER ??

 

[angrisha]

"



You will also find cultural interference about menstruation, I'm not sure if it's within Damdami or not, that menstruating women shouldn't touch anything containing Gurbani, and some say they shouldn't even come into a Gurdwara.

It shows how discerning we must be about finding the truth, about who we associate ourselves with, and about championing Guru Sahib's actual, proper message above all else.

THis I believe comes from hinduism (could be wrong), specifically I think in Gujrat this is a big issue. Which I learned when I lived on the east coast of the states with a large Gujrati population. They essentially wont even touch women who are menstruating, they have separate dishes and they eat in separate areas....

For a long time (might be incorrect as ive never been to amirtsar) I head that girls were not allowed to do kirtan at the Golden Temple. Again not sure if thats true...

 

[Harkiran Kaur]

For a long time (might be incorrect as ive never been to amirtsar) I head that girls were not allowed to do kirtan at the Golden Temple. Again not sure if thats true...

It's true... and when SGPC finally allowed it, it was refuted by guess who??? Damdami Taksal!!!

They have a very obvious male superiority agenda. And it's not surprising if dasam granth is held as equal to the SGGS.

I tried pointing out to that guy, the thread on here where the history of damdami taksal is in question, and also the thread about dasam granth where it points to the whole article about dasam granth exposed.

He could not bear the truth that only 50 pages attributed to Guru Gobind Singh Ji of it are in agreement with SGGS. The rest of the over 1400 pages contributors are in question, as is the content dealing with avatars and Hindu Gods/Godesses, stories of women's sexual trickery, etc...

The only thing he could come up with: He said anyone who opposes dasam granth are evil. And then proceeded to tell me that this site is run by Hinu idol worshippers...

He says that women being in submission to men and having restrictions that men don't is God's will.... He couldn't actually refute the content of dasam granth, how it contradicts sggs and how Guru Gobind Singh Ji is the one who bewtowed guruship to the sggs and we are supposed to take nothing as higher authority.