5ks And Sikh Woman

[Arvind]

Re: 5 ks for women

((( Personally, I think we need a Sikh scholar in this discussion for this one. This requires historical detail and accuracy. )))

Haanji, thats one of core thrust area for this fourm. Pls see poll in this site for this. I myself would like to have such kind of events sooner, so that learned people can explain the importance of things. At the same time, we all can do our homework in present discussions before getting into those 'actual' discussions with Sikh scholars.

Regards.

 

[Gurpreet Kaur]

Re: 5 ks for women

I have heard that the word Kesh is a Sanskrit word which is translated to mean the hair on the head specifically, also it is the definition given in the Mahan Kosh.

 

[etinder]

Re: 5 ks for women

what i feel is that kesh is among the five kakaars but that doesnt constitue other hairs, but regarding the other hairs it comes under rehaitnamas about "roman di beadabi" nahin kurni..

 

[Hukum Kaur]

Re: 5 ks for women

About the kesh and the turbans, the turbans are to protect ones hair, and to cover it from the damaging rays of the sun. Turbans cover the sun spot so that that energy can go downwards therefore stimmulating the Kundulini energy upwards. Without a headcovering of cotton, imbalences of the electromagnetic field are more probable. Hair is very sensitive, he hair on ones legs are antenas just like the hair on ones head. The hair under the arms, is how the body communicates to the mind about diet and if one is eating properly. A persons natural odor is very important for knowing weather or not one is healthy and knowing weather or not one can be trusted. (However the nails should be cut as a sighn of grooming and self maintnance, not to let nature take over.) As a side note, but equally important, one should avoid heavy cologn and strong deoderants, for this interferes with the communication of youre body.

Sat Naam, Liv Kaur

 

[BaljeetSingh]

Re: 5 ks for women

Per Mahan Kosh (the defacto dictionary of Sikhism). Kesh means "hair on the head". Hair all over the body are called "rome", so, by definition, Kesh = "rome" on head.

There are other evidence too in that direction

Awsw mhlw 5 ]
Aasaa, Fifth Mehl:
siqguru Apnw sd sdw sm@wry ]
I contemplate, forever and ever, the True Guru;
gur ky crn kys sMig Jwry ]1]

with my hair, I dust the feet of the Guru. ||1|| ​

​

Here, "Kesh" refer to the hair on head..

Another referense to Kesh

gUjrI mhlw 5 ]
Goojaree, Fifth Mehl:
kir ikrpw Apnw drsu dIjY jsu gwvau inis Aru Bor ]
Show Mercy to me, and grant me the Blessed Vision of Your Darshan. I sing Your Praises night and day.
kys sMig dws pg Jwrau iehY mnorQ mor ]1]
With my hair, I wash the feet of Your slave; this is my life's purpose. ||1||

​

Regards,

 

[rooh]

Re: 5 ks for women

May i just ask, what god or spirituality has to do with your bodily hair? Tell me, if God resides in everyone, does he love anybody less becasue they have a shaved head ? You are forgetting the bigger picture and the main goal in Sikhi.

 

[BaljeetSingh]

Dear rooh - Keeping your hair is not related with getting close to God. Sikhs keep their hair because that's what their Guru told them to. By definition a "Sikh" is a student and "Guru" is a teacher. A sikh is supposed to follow the Guru's teaching. Doe sit make sense?

Regards,

 

[kaur-1]

If a women has excessive facial hair, I dont see why she can't remove it.

A practising Sikh women should not cut her kesh/head hair ever but if her facial hair is due to excessive abnormal hormone production, I cant see why she should not be able to remove it.

It doesnt make her a lesser Sikh.!!

Das believe's that "Rom Rom" is an expression not saying that we therefore should not cut our excessive facial hair (for women that is).

Keeping kesh(for practicing Sikh men & women) and long beard (for men not women!) is a Khalsa identity.

 

[BhagatSingh]

lol i kinda have the same thing going i have a heavy kara so there are less hair on my right wrist... but that is not shaving or cutting of hair so its not beadbi/disrespect

etinder .. the thing is that there is a word in punjabi kesh with means hair so going to sanskrit to find out the meaning is unnecessary

as for women and shaving of body hair - why do they do it?
-to look attractive
-to be acceptied
-and FINALY TO LOOK ATTRACTIVE

if you look at it from a teenagers point of view ... yes, it becomes "important" to remove body hair so she can be accepted and look "good"
i think this issue of removing body hair is also slowly becoming an issue for guys

the only way we can get rid of this feeling is to set an image in the media of pure sikhs that are like everyone else (cool, the hero, gangster type(thinking of "Wolverine" style mentality, etc) and still be sikhs this will make the youth feel more comfortable being sikhs
if ur wondering where i am getting this from then read on
in almost EVERY film the hero is clean shaven and has almost no hair on the body and the heroine has no body hair
models... do i need to explain?

 

[max314]

Re: 5 ks for women

but one thing i failed to understand that why women do it,is it to conform to the modern beauty standards that they have to shave or get rid of body hairs et al..
or some other factors like peer pressure, look and feel good factor ..
i wud like to know the views of the sangat on this and more from women members..

This is obviously a very sensitive issue, so I'll try and be as careful as I can.

I don't personally think that women's bodies/faces is an example of "modern beauty standards". Whilst body hair for men seems to go in and out of 'fashion' depending on the decade, I think that women without hair on their bodies or faces have always been considered beautiful. It's the reason that men have beards and women don't. Hair on women just isn't attractive, and this is not - in my view - simply a trend.

If a women has excessive facial hair, I dont see why she can't remove it.

A practising Sikh women should not cut her kesh/head hair ever but if her facial hair is due to excessive abnormal hormone production, I cant see why she should not be able to remove it.

It doesnt make her a lesser Sikh.!!

Das believe's that "Rom Rom" is an expression not saying that we therefore should not cut our excessive facial hair (for women that is).

Keeping kesh(for practicing Sikh men & women) and long beard (for men not women!) is a Khalsa identity.

I happent to agree with you. Keeping hair isn't really something that increases your spirituality. It's simply an image that represents something.

I'm a fond believer in the saying that "pride taken too far is foolishness". And 'pride' should always be an enemy for any Khalsa.

 

[soon2bkaur]

As a new person to the Sikh faith, this is certainly a challenge for me. Since I have found the Sikh faith, I have not shaved. My husband does not really like it, not because of what it looks like, but the result of not shaving. I have a skin problem on my legs and arms, that when new hair grows in, I break out because the hair follicle gets infected. When I shave my arms and legs (and other areas), I do not break out. My dermatologist has mentioned electrolysis because she says it will help. I am growing out my head hair but is still very short since it was basically shaved (had to recover from a bad haircut), I am ok with my head hair growing, as I will never alter it again, but what can I do about my legs and arms. Also, society pressures. I live in Florida in the U.S., where the trendiest (and rudest) people seem to be, also, the summers are so hot that wearing pants while outside makes for a very uncomfortable outing. I can't go swimming because of the viscous looks that people give (tried it already). But, I am trying to keep my faith.... are there any other women who have succeeded in keeping leg and arm hair? How do you cope? Can you still shave if you have not taken Amrit, or is this a requirement for all Sikh’s?

 

[Harry Haller]

soon2bkaurji,

My advice would be to start from the inside and work your way to the outside, you will eventually get to the point where you really could not care less what people think at the swimming pool.

I am sure I will be corrected if I am wrong, but I feel there are way too many physically perfect sikhs who concentrate only on the appearance of a sikh, whilst giving little regard to the spiritual side. I am sure if you focus on the spirit and let it filter out, you will find that helps you with the social side of looking like a woman singh

Just so you know, I have the same problem in reverse. I would like to wear a turban and grow my hair out, but have decided to wait until I feel I am worthy of that honour, in a turban I look like a respectable sikh gentleman, and no one gives me a second glance, without it, I look like a fat bald buffoon with massive hamster cheeks.....and yes small kids point and laugh at me:angryyoungkaur:

 

[spnadmin]

soon2bkaur ji

In a few weeks I will have no hair. Chemotherapy starts soon. The issue of dastar, on or off, will not be a problem for me. What is under my scalp ... my attitude... becomes my challenge. Maintaining chardi kala and Waheguru sahal will get me through all questions of identity. Identity begins in the heart. Henry Haller ji speaks with the wisdom of years of pondering any and every question that can or will come up. Hold my hand. That is the nature of true sangat...to be ready to embrace every individual dilemma within its fold.

The kakkars tell the world you are a Sikh. You must believe you are a Sikh for any of that to be authentically you. Do you feel yourself a Sikh? You are.

 

[Ishna]

soon2bkaur Ji, perhaps visit a different dermatologist? You current one seems to be preoccupied with treating the symptoms and not finding a cure. It may be that you need to exfoliate your skin regularly to help all the hairs grow out or maybe you have a germ on your skin which is infecting the new follicle as it grows or something. Definately follow it up with another dermatologist.

If you don't want to wear pants, try long skirts. You can get nice light summery skirts which will protect your skin from the sun as well as keeping your leg hairs private.

I'm with Harry Ji, the further along the Sikh path you go, the more you realise you've evolved with hairs like this so why fight it when there is no harm in just leaving it there? It is only man-made society which dictates we should be removing something completely natural.

I've got all my kesh (much to my husband's disgust also!) but my hairs are very fair. It's easy with forward planning -- choosing clothes which don't show off your arm pits and leg hair.

 

[harman4663]

I want to clearify one thing that Am I right in saying that 5 ks are both for sikh men and women, And does the kesh means for women to be uncut hair or uncut hair with dastaar I have lived in Punjab for 22 years but I can count number of womens following 5ks on my fingers that I have ever seen. Can you guide me in this regards what our community is doing to rectify it

Do gursikh women have to wear kachera???

 

[MesaBeer]

Hello! Yes, the 5 Ks are for both Sikh men and women. Kesh refers to uncut hair, and for women, it includes the option of wearing a dastaar (turban). It's important to promote awareness and understanding within the community to encourage more women to embrace the 5 Ks. Let's work together to create a more inclusive and informed environment.

 

[swarn bains]

i want to put my two cents here. whole sggs is full of your mind. cleanse your mind and be godly. how many learned sikhs know and follow the process of cleansing the mind. ਮਨ ਜੀਤੈ ਜੱਗ ਜੀਤ. WHOEVER CONQUERS THE MIND CONQUERS THE WORLD. NOW ONE IS A GODLY PATH the other is a military path. the military path guru Gobind singh created for need of the time. to be ready quickly. that means the unshorn hair was for the hair on the head not the body. other body hair played no role in the war time. how many sikhs who had amrit and follow the rehat of the guru. a very few. the subject we are discussing here is a blame game. who ever goes to the battle field should have unshorn hair to get ready quickly. the turban is not part of 5 k but it covers the hair from getting dirtya or falling apart. so which concelpt one follows should follow to the tee because it also has affect on the mind. the ultimate destiy for a sikh is to cleanse the mind through guru's teaching reciting God's name.

 

[P J Singh]

The answer to this question resides in Sikh Rehat Maryada (SRM). As far as I know there is no suggestion in SRM that women who have taken Pahul must wear dastar.

SRM is the collective thought and the unified voice of the Sikh Panth on such matters. It is not written by a few the so called Takhadars of Sikhi or head priests of gurudawars; it is compiled by more than 30 very well informed, thoughtful, and diligent Sikh scholars of outstanding repute. So let us not put aside this key guiding document that all Sikhs ( men and women ) should follow.

There is no mention in this document about this issue.

However, there is no restriction if a Sikh woman chooses to wear dastar - it is her personal choice but then making a claim that it is the requirements of Sikh faith for women to wear dastar is wrong and misleading.

We don't have any record that would suggest that Guru Sahib ( 10th Guru Sahib) instructed women to wear dastar either.

So how did this trend emerge? This is from our Babas and Dera and other self interests who have put aside the SRM and have started their own Sikh Maryadas perhaps to immortalize themselves among their followers. Gurbani teaches us about equality but these trends are very divisive.

I know there are some very well placed Sikh women ( lawyers and doctors) who wear dastar. Can anyone of these women come forward and please tell us if they know more about Sikhi and Sikh Maryada than the group of prominent Sikh scholars who compiled SRM. Or they should justify their claim ( if they so claim) that is it is an edict issued by Guru sahib or any other such edict that suggests that it is a requirement of Sikh faith. Equality is paramount is Sikh faith, let us please not be divisive by presenting ourselves to be a better Sikh just by wearing dastar - there is a lot more to Sikh faith in Gurrbani (AGGS) than a focus on outward appearance especially if it is beyond what 10th Guru sahib prescribed.

If a Sikh women ( and for that matter any woman Sikh or non-Sikh) wears dastar/turban as a personal choice we must support her and her choice as long as she does not claim or preach that it is the requirement of the Sikh faith -- it is not a requirement as per SRM!

WJKK WJKF

 

[WorldReligions]

Re: 5 ks for women

waheguru ji ka waheguru ji ki fateh!

I agree singh ji, "kesh" should mean all bodily hair. This may be a good example: you do not see a Singh with out a daree, or with shaven legs. So why should you see a Kaur? She is just the same, and just because society says that a girl should look or act a certain way, it should not take you away from guru sahib. He is here for ever but trends come and go

How do people then protect from ticks? They like to hide in warm places and love legs. If you don’t shave how would you see them? Are they not a problem in India?

 

[WorldReligions]

How do people then protect from ticks? They like to hide in warm places and love legs. If you don’t shave how would you see them? Are they not a problem in India?

Also what about people who have cancer?