8.4 Million Species ?

[hps62]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

dear Brother Imran

you are probably mixing up things.

Religion is about faith and science is about generating knowledge to help our species and earth to survive .

No religious text book discusses " Calculus , quantum theory ,theory of relativity , evolutionary theory etc etc.

As to why people practice faith is different for different people it could be the compassion for Chrisatnity , catholicity for hindus(these religions are probable still deeper and in their philosophy).

As for sikh it could mean different for differnet sikhs .My own view are discusses under topic " What sikhism means to me ? ie if I really understand it."].

So your question is probably ambugious and will never be answered by any religous text in this world.
Any how good to question !

With love

hps62

 

[drkhalsa]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

Dear Spirtual fellas


Just for the reference of every body again


no of species that have classified yet is 1.75 million in total

 

[CaramelChocolate]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

I have noticed fundamental problem when looking at religion, followers of Western religions [Islam, Christianity, Judaism] seem to take things literally, whereas Eastern followers [Hinduism, Sikhism, Jainism etc.] look at there texts with symbolism and deeper meaning and this is understandable if you look at most Hindu/Sikh/Jain writing. So if a Muslim wishes to study Sikhism he cannot do it in a Muslim frame of mind otherwise he will be LOST. For example, if Sikhism is not from God it is false and therefore all Sikhs are going to hell, but a Sikh may say God is beyond religion, man creates religion in order to attain God as it is obvious that God is there. Whereas, a Muslim will say God created Islam, the true and only religion for all and all else will go to hell.

 

[Archived_member2]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

I request all for a reference from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that gives the message 'There are eighty-four lakhs (8.4 millions) of species available on earth.'

I will be grateful.


Balbir Singh

 

[Archived_member2]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

Pray Truth for all and say Satsriakal!

Dear Imran Ji!
Thanks for your query.

Your query may help us all reaching a better understanding of Gurbani.

I am not sure if you know Gurmukhi. Knowing a language is anyway not a guarantee to posses the Truth.

A language is the media among beings. It does not transfers the experiences. All spiritual and worldly experiences cannot be transferred through language by explaining.

There are many translations available of scriptures from Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji, Gita, Bible and Koran.

We often do not realize that we try to understand the translator's mind when we read his translation of scriptures.

The same problem has arisen here.

You may be surprised to know that the word 'lakh chouraaseeh' (8.4 millions) occurs many times in Gurbani, but has never meant that there are only 8.4 millions species available on earth.

I am surprised to read the translations.

Our Gurus said that a Jeev (being) when misses the chance to meet God in this human body, goes through 8.4 millions of bodies made of earthly matter (maedhanee) to get the human birth again. This number does not decrease or rise.
Most translations give the impressions that there are 8.4 millions species found on earth.

Our Gurus have clearly spoken about species.

"tis vich Dhartee thaap rakhee Dharam saal."
In the midst of these, He established the earth as a home for Dharma.

"tis vich jee-a jugat kay rang."
In that are colors (varieties) of beings and their evolutions.

"tin kay naam anayk anant." SGGS page 7
Their names are uncounted and endless.

Dear Imran Ji!
You wrote "Because biologist believe there are as many as 100,000 million species can you please please explain what this means"

The number of species has always been changing, with the change of time, by scientists.

Truth never changes.

Our Gurus, after seeing universes, did not give a specific number to the variety of species.

Their humble quotation is rather "kaytee-aa tayree-aa kudratee kayvad tayree daat."
Many are your natures. Greats are you giving.

"kaytay tayray jee-a jant sifat karahi din raat." SGGS page 18
How many are your beings and species praising day and night.

I feel our Gurus are true in wonder after realizing God's infinity.

Can one ever get success to count the creations of God?

Can a molecule of our body ever come to know how many species of molecules our body consists of?

This is a different thing that we inform this molecule the truth when we get aware of it.

Love to all.


Balbir Singh

 

[eshersingh]

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa, Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh,



Here is an interesting find by the scientists in Vietnam


Hanoi, Sep 28 (DPA) Scientists have discovered 11 plant and animal species in tropical forests in central Vietnam and believe that more species remain unknown here, the World Wildlife Fund (WWF) said.
The new species were a snake, five orchids, two butterflies and three other plants new to science and exclusive to the Annamites Mountain Range, the conservation group said.

'These latest discoveries may be just the tip of the iceberg,' said Chris Dickinson, WWF's chief conservation scientist in the region known as Vietnam's Green Corridor, adding that several large mammal species were discovered in the same forests in the 1990s.

The new snake species, which can reach 79 centimetres in length, has a yellow-white stripe sweeping along its head and red dots covering its body while three of the new orchids are leafless.

Scientists said they believe the tropical forest in Vietnam is also home to many other unknown animal and plant species, especially small species.

'So far, we have only known about 30 to 40 percent of the small species of animals and plants in tropical forests in Vietnam,' estimated Le Xuan Canh with the Institute of Ecology and Biological Resources of Vietnam.

WWF also said that 10 other plant species found in the area are still under examination but appear to be new species.

Recent surveys found 15 reptiles and amphibians and six bird species among the threatened species living in the Green Corridor, which stretches from the mountainous forests of the Annamites to one of the last remaining lowland wet evergreen forests.

The corridor is also home to one of the world's most endangered primates, the white-cheeked crested gibbon, and is considered the best location in Vietnam to save the saola, a unique type of wild cattle discovered in 1992.




So , One conclusion can be drawn from this is that Scientist are yet to find the total species that are living on this earth . They have not even started finding live on other planets as they are not able to go beyond our galaxy or I should say that go beyond ven our solar system.

 

[amrit.saggu]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

hello,

Ok you asked me to give reference of the verse so here it is:
Section 22 - Raag Raamkalee - Part 061
[SIZE=-1]936 : 2690 [/SIZE]

i dont understand this because how can it be that
if there are 10000 million on earth there coould be millions in other plantets of the universe which Japu ji saihb and other scriputres say.
ok but how is this devine revalation becuase in your post it says that there could be millions in other planets, but surely if it is the word of god then how is it then??

Also you now the:

bieAwlIs lK jI jl mih hoqy bITlu BYlw kwie krau ]1]
baeiaalees lakh jee jal mehi hothae beethal bhailaa kaae karo ||1||
But 4.2 million species of beings are in the water - how can I use it for the Lord, O Siblings of Destiny? ||1||

can you explain this verse because it says that there are 4.2 million speices of beings in the water. Isnt this a error??

Also can you tellme was the Granth a devine revlation???

Imran,

Current estimates of the total number of species on Earth range from 5 to 30 million, of which, the 2005 Millennium Ecosystem Assessment notes approximately 2 million have been described.

The National Science Foundation’s “Tree of Life” project estimates that there could be anywhere from 5 million to 100 million species on the planet, but science has only identified about 2 million.

Where are you getting this number 125 million?? we have actually have only formally discovered 1.8 million species on earth so far. Please clarify if you have further details. Guru Granth Sahib ji says we transmigrate through 8.4 million life forms. It's true. and Yes, the Guru Granth Sahib is a divine revelation. It's not our place to take pride in that matter, it is a Guru to all beings who wish to read it's truths. If you choose not to believe, then that is a choice you rightfully have and nobody can say you are wrong. To each his own. God bless.

 

[spnadmin]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

amrit.saggu ji

The direction your comments take above are appealing to me. I don't mean to get involved in the enumeration of species on the planet, in the water, or in the Universe. That is really not for me all significant. The part that impresses: Science cannot know everything, and scientists themselves will admit as much. The purpose of science is doubt not certitude, if we take the scientific method seriously and as it is intended to be understood. So trying to match scientific discoveries with Guru's revealed word in order to show Guru was correct, is daffy business. Likewise, using science to deny Guru's revealed word is also daffy business. That is my opinion. These are two ways of knowing, science and spirit. How can science be substituted for the wisdom of the Guru and still be science? How can spirituality be substituted for the insights of science and still be science? Akaal embraces, creates, and re-creates all of creation. How any activity of the mortal mind like science second-guess Him? Thanks

 

[amrit.saggu]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

amrit.saggu ji

The direction your comments take above are appealing to me. I don't mean to get involved in the enumeration of species on the planet, in the water, or in the Universe. That is really not for me all significant. The part that impresses: Science cannot know everything, and scientists themselves will admit as much. The purpose of science is doubt not certitude, if we take the scientific method seriously and as it is intended to be understood. So trying to match scientific discoveries with Guru's revealed word in order to show Guru was correct, is daffy business. Likewise, using science to deny Guru's revealed word is also daffy business. That is my opinion. These are two ways of knowing, science and spirit. How can science be substituted for the wisdom of the Guru and still be science? How can spirituality be substituted for the insights of science and still be science? Akaal embraces, creates, and re-creates all of creation. How any activity of the mortal mind like science second-guess Him? Thanks

After starting to read the English translations of Guru Granth Sahib ji, my doubt in the Guru was cast out completely. There is no place for doubt in my heart any longer. Science is a very important aspect of my life, with it I have gained a great appreciation for the creator and his creation. As God is all pervading, his energies create, destroy, and manipulate the physical dimensions we are a part of. Nothing is outside of God- as Guru ji said- i am a fish and you are the ocean- i know nothing outside of you. You are the fisherman, you are the net that captures, and you are the fish.
Nothing is outside of the bounds of all pervading Waheguru. Even Science.

Newton discovered for us the calculations of gravity (not what causes it to work- that's way over our heads). But after learning about gravity, I felt a great sense of humility towards this amazing force which I've never truly appreciated before. This is a force that the Divine Universe uses to organize celestial masses like the sun and the galaxies in the universe. Gravity also ensures the gases we need to sustain life(oxygen, nitrogen etc.) stay within our atmosphere. It is so amazing; this force we often overlook and simply categorize as "science". --Science is only an attempt to discover some aspects of the Universes creation & energies. The reason I take such interest in science is because it puts me in a state of utter humility towards the creator and his magnificent creation. I am sorry if my words were offensive in anyway.

Warm Regards
Amrit

 

[spnadmin]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

 

[amrit.saggu]

I appreciate your positive response.
truly,
Amrit

 

[Randip Singh]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

so this means that the granth isnt the direct words of God??

and the Koran is?

Let me get this right. An illiterate man, who cannot read or write produces the direct word of God? Is that what you are saying?

 

[amrit.saggu]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

Fellow Sikhs,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it is not our place to call Mohammed illiterate- it maybe true but also offensive to some if stated in the wrong context as stated above. We may not agree with Islam, but as Sikhs we should not speak against another religion unless of course it is destructive. In this case, if you believe it is destructive, then your arguments should have a stronger foundation. I disagree with many aspects of Islam, but the fact that Mohammed was illiterate does not make a difference. An illiterate man can have wisdom far beyond a literate one. Literacy has nothing to do with the word of God. The Divine Universe has the ability to send the word through an inanimate object if it so pleases him. Please take no offense to what I say, my intentions are to provoke progressive thinking.

Warm Regards
Amrit

 

[max314]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

Gurbani is not a scientific text.

It is a poetic one. A musical one.

The only 'fact' contained in gürbäni is "ék onkär". The rest of the text is about articulating this inarticulable concept in the form of musically-assisted poetic verse and, in doing so, it very often calls upon existing images of God - which are often Hindu or Islamic in nature. After all, you don't use metaphors of snow and ice to describe God to a man who has lived his entire life in the desert. The same principle applies here.

Most religions repeat this same mistake. They're so afraid of reading between the lines that they interpret poetry as facts. Therein lies the path to madness and filling in fairytale interpretations in a desperate bid to make it seem as though the text makes sense on a factual level.

You wouldn't take Keats' pastoral description of a Greek urn to mean there were actually people living inside the urn, would you? Of course not. Because that would be stupid.

 

[amrit.saggu]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

Gurbani is not a scientific text.

It is a poetic one. A musical one.

The only 'fact' contained in gürbäni is "ék onkär". The rest of the text is about articulating this inarticulable concept in the form of musically-assisted poetic verse and, in doing so, it very often calls upon existing images of God - which are often Hindu or Islamic in nature. After all, you don't use metaphors of snow and ice to describe God to a man who has lived his entire life in the desert. The same principle applies here.

Most religions repeat this same mistake. They're so afraid of reading between the lines that they interpret poetry as facts. Therein lies the path to madness and filling in fairytale interpretations in a desperate bid to make it seem as though the text makes sense on a factual level.

You wouldn't take Keats' pastoral description of a Greek urn to mean there were actually people living inside the urn, would you? Of course not. Because that would be stupid.

Siblings of destiny,

gurbani speaks divine truth. It is all fact. Ek Onkar is the first fact, and realities are expanded upon throughout Guru Granth sahib Ji. A true, selfless and compassionate way of life is given to us. Guru Granth sahib Ji is entirely factual; let's not get this confused with the metaphors and personifications the gurus and poets used to help the reader understand their perspectives. Science is a conscious effort to seek the truth also, so we are bound to find some overlap. Let us be open minded always, we are Learners after all

amrit

 

[max314]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

so the granth aint a devine and a direct word of god?

The rigid, one dimensional nature of your query is symptomatic of your erroneous way of thinking.

Also, your personal qualification for a 'valid' spiritual text (i.e. that God has to come down and reveal things directly, like a man talking to another man) means that you are not concerning yourself with the right things.

You are interested in religion as a football team (i.e. "my religion is right, your religion is wrong"). You are not interested in religion as a path to enlightened living.

Your question is fundamentally flawed.

Therefore, yes - I will not answer your question. Because it's a stupid question.

No offence.

 

[max314]

Re: 8.4 million speices ??

Siblings of destiny,

gurbani speaks divine truth. It is all fact. Ek Onkar is the first fact, and realities are expanded upon throughout Guru Granth sahib Ji. A true, selfless and compassionate way of life is given to us. Guru Granth sahib Ji is entirely factual; let's not get this confused with the metaphors and personifications the gurus and poets used to help the reader understand their perspectives. Science is a conscious effort to seek the truth also, so we are bound to find some overlap. Let us be open minded always, we are Learners after all

amrit

Yes, gurbani is all true.

But it's simply a re-iteration of the same truth. Indeed, in many ways, it's the only truth that matters.

 

[vsgrewal48895]

Dear Imran,

IMHO AGGS is not a word of God but a poetical expression of the Guru about his spiritual experience in a common man's language at that time about his spiritual knowledge about God.
Secondaly 8.4 million number is a metaphoric reference to many and different forms of life on earth and in water. It definitly does not mean as to the exact mathematical number.
Of course we have the right to agree to disagree.

Respectfully Submited,

Virinder

 

[jasbirkaleka]

But no Sikh Guru ever claimed that his was the 'thurr ki bani', as some prophets like Moses and Mohamand claimed.

 

[vsgrewal48895]

SWAYYA by 10th Guru in Ram Avtar;

ਪਾਂਇ ਗਹੇ ਜਬ ਤੇ ਤੁਮਰੇ ਤਬ ਤੇ ਕੋਊ ਆਂਖ ਤਰੇ ਨਹੀ ਆਨਿਯੋ ॥ ਰਾਮ ਰਹੀਮ ਪੁਰਾਨ ਕੁਰਾਨ ਅਨੇਕ ਕਹੈਂ ਮਤਿ ਏਕ ਨ ਮਾਨਿਯੋ ॥
Paa-en Gahay Jab Te Tumre Tab Te Kou Aankh Tare Nahi Aaneo, Ram Raheem Puran Quran Anek Kahain Mat Ek Na Maaneo.<?"urn:fficeffice" />

O God ! the day when I caught hold of your feet, I do not bring anyone else under my sight; none other is liked by me now; the Puranas and the Quran try to know Thee by the names of Ram and Rahim and talk about you through several stories, but I do not accept any of their opinions;

ਸਿੰਮ੍ਰਿਤਿ ਸਾਸਤ੍ਰ ਬੇਦ ਸਭੈ ਬਹੁ ਭੇਦ ਕਹੈ ਹਮ ਏਕ ਨ ਜਾਨਿਯੋ ॥ ਸ੍ਰੀ ਅਸਿਪਾਨਿ ਕ੍ਰਿਪਾ ਤੁਮਰੀ ਕਰਿ ਮੈ ਨ ਕਹਿਯੋ ਸਭ ਤੋਹਿ ਬਖਾਨਿਯੋ ॥੮੬੩॥
Simnrat Sastar Bayd Sabai Boh Bhayd Khai Han Ek Na Janeo, Siri Aspaan Kirpa Tumri Kar Mai Na Kaheo Sabh Toeh Bakhaneo.

The Simritis, Shastras and Vedas describe several mysteries of yours, but I do not agree with any of them. O sword-wielder God! This all has been described by Thy Grace, what power can I have to say all this?.863.

Please conclude your self but I do agree with JasbirKaleka Ji's above statement.

Cordially,

Virinder