A Shabad I Came Across - Possible Interpretations

[Harry Haller]

great stuff above ji........

The house is within all.
This is the nijh ghar/nijh mahal that one can enter where waheguru himself resides and where the amrit and anhad bani both flow.
The elephant mind as mentioned in the beginning of the shabad, is such, because of it's continuous and enormous flow of thoughts.
These thoughts are all maya and the 5 thieves keep throwing them.

If we subdue these elephant thoughts that fill the mind, down to just ONE thought itself, which is the shabad, then we can begin free ourselves from the shackles of the 5 thieves.
The idea is to eventually have no thoughts and enter the abode of waheguru.

To have no thoughts seems to me to be pretty unSikh like, it brings to mind the rishis and sages on mountain tops, legs crossed, with no thoughts of anything in their heads other than the Lord Shiva, to be completely wrapped up in that and nothing more, is this Sikhism?

To me Sikhism is to live, to get off the mountain, and to stop thinking and transform the purity in our heads into actions, rather than panic because our thoughts are not 100% pure. To be in a state where our thoughts are just the one thought, achieves nothing because it is temporary state, a false state if you will, brought about by circumstances (ie quiet room, early morning etc), whereas, in my view, what we should be doing is accepting that our minds are such, filtering out as best we can what we accept to be unpure, and then putting into actions the purity, thus the abode of Waheguru penetrates our every action, thought and life, rather than being somewhere we retreat to to get away from life,

just my thoughts

 

[chazSingh]

To have no thoughts seems to me to be pretty unSikh like, it brings to mind the rishis and sages on mountain tops, legs crossed, with no thoughts of anything in their heads other than the Lord Shiva, to be completely wrapped up in that and nothing more, is this Sikhism?

To me Sikhism is to live, to get off the mountain, and to stop thinking and transform the purity in our heads into actions, rather than panic because our thoughts are not 100% pure. To be in a state where our thoughts are just the one thought, achieves nothing because it is temporary state, a false state if you will, brought about by circumstances (ie quiet room, early morning etc), whereas, in my view, what we should be doing is accepting that our minds are such, filtering out as best we can what we accept to be unpure, and then putting into actions the purity, thus the abode of Waheguru penetrates our every action, thought and life, rather than being somewhere we retreat to to get away from life,

just my thoughts

to have no thoughts means we act on whatever flows through intuitively / instinct...straight from the soul...the mind follows direction of the soul..and not the soul being slave to the influence of the mind..

instinct....nothing more...no nonsense hitting us from a million directions in the battlefield of the mind..

once we achieve this, we don;t need to try anymore...it is our true character coming though us..the true light flowing through the fog of the mind...godly attributes being our character...and not the 5 thieves having an input

most of the people i speak to don;t sit on mountain tops... lol
we just spend a little time throughout the day to clear that fog...and when that fog starts to dissepear some pretty amazing things manifest...

then you have the whole day to influence the world with the light that is shining through you..

definately no hiding in mountains away from humanity... lol

God Bless Ji

 

[Harry Haller]

to have no thoughts means we act on whatever flows through intuitively / instinct...straight from the soul...the mind follows direction of the soul..and not the soul being slave to the influence of the mind..

none of this makes any sense to me, maybe I do not have a soul, is the concept of a soul even valid in Sikhism, if you have the time, do a search for 'soul' in SriGranth.org, you will find many many hits where it is clearly apparent that the soul is not perfect, and is not the source of all goodness, souls can be evil, souls can be corrupt, to that end your argument is invalid.

once we achieve this, we don;t need to try anymore...it is our true character coming though us..the true light flowing through the fog of the mind...godly attributes being our character...and not the 5 thieves having an input

so you are saying that the soul is perfection, the true is without the thieves?

we just spend a little time throughout the day to clear that fog...and when that fog starts to dissapear some pretty amazing things manifest...

what amazing things? what am I missing?

 

[chazSingh]

none of this makes any sense to me, maybe I do not have a soul, is the concept of a soul even valid in Sikhism, if you have the time, do a search for 'soul' in SriGranth.org, you will find many many hits where it is clearly apparent that the soul is not perfect, and is not the source of all goodness, souls can be evil, souls can be corrupt, to that end your argument is invalid.

You could be right....
but gurbani speaks of our 'light' merging with His 'light', and just by mere definition light corresponds to purity..so deep within us it would suggest we are pure light.

Soul, consiousness whatever you want to call it...Gurbani says we come into this world nake, and we leave naked...

obviously the body is left to rot, what is gurbani referring to when it speaks of us leaving this world?

so you are saying that the soul is perfection, the true is without the thieves?

in the first watch of the night, in the womb we are meditating on the lord our creator...one with the lord..

In the second watch / Third watch of the night Bani explains the onset of Maya (desires, eGo, anger, lust, attachment) which pulls us around by the hair

what amazing things? what am I missing?

This really is for you to find and enjoy finding out...

in no way have i uncovered the secrets to creation and met God...but i know i'm on the right path...

and i'm finding a lot is shown by his grace within us...barring initial effort, the rest is in His hands..

just my feelings ji...nothing more..

 

[Luckysingh]

To have no thoughts seems to me to be pretty unSikh like, it brings to mind the rishis and sages on mountain tops, legs crossed, with no thoughts of anything in their heads other than the Lord Shiva, to be completely wrapped up in that and nothing more, is this Sikhism?

To me Sikhism is to live, to get off the mountain, and to stop thinking and transform the purity in our heads into actions, rather than panic because our thoughts are not 100% pure. To be in a state where our thoughts are just the one thought, achieves nothing because it is temporary state, a false state if you will, brought about by circumstances (ie quiet room, early morning etc), whereas, in my view, what we should be doing is accepting that our minds are such, filtering out as best we can what we accept to be unpure, and then putting into actions the purity, thus the abode of Waheguru penetrates our every action, thought and life, rather than being somewhere we retreat to to get away from life,

just my thoughts

You got the completely wrong thoughts here !

Firstly, in gurbani it emphasizes repeatedly to detach from maya, to detach from duality..........BUT there are 2 ways of doing this.

1) is to detach from society, which is what you are talking about above.
2) to detach your affinity and priority to maya WITHIN.

GURMAT- as explained by Guru, is not number (1), the one that you are discussing. Guru tells us to NOT have to detach from maya and worldly society, he tells us that like the lotus you can still get across the world ocean but be risen from the rest of maya.
Therefore, to go hide physically from society is just moving your physical and external self, But Internally you may still be totally attached to maya in thought.

Then how do you do number (2) ??
What is the maya within ???
Again, gurbani also explains what maya is and the different categories of maya....rajo,tamo and sato...

If you stop still and examine your thoughts, they are ALL maya, EXCEPT when you are connected to shabad or waheguru.

When I say in above post, eradicate ALL thoughts and become thoughtless... this is All maya thoughts that we are talking about.
When eventually, you are down to the one last thought of waheguru only, can you become thoughtless by his grace.


The Shabad in the OP, is talking about this process of practical simran.
The simran that is done with self in meditation.
The shabad posted by Ishnaji, is not about this, but it is about how one can be Physical in daily routine And also Spiritual at the same time.
In effect, you could say there are 2 types of simran.....The one you can do in daily, day to day life and the one you do with 100% dhian and devotion in naam simran.

And, I don't think that you can substitute one for another or pick and choose.....
see below post-

 

[Luckysingh]

Thank you Lucky Ji.

I feel that our constant awareness should include Waheguru amid the other thoughts and everyday going's on, as described below by Bhagat Nam Dayv on panna 972. Stuff added by edit: Certianly, meditation can help us train our minds, and plenty of research has been done in that field. Meditation is a means to an end, the end being the constant awareness, the complete simran, the stable state of mind where truthful actions come from, always. We need to train and control our crazy minds, no doubt about it and meditative techniques can help us with it. Essentially, though, they are practices which build us up for where it counts; daily life.

Ishnaji, that is good reply and also one of the chosen shabads by all missionary kathavachaks when they disregard naam simran.

As I explained above, the shabad above is not talking about the same approach as the shabad in OP, and neither is it a replacement.

(When I am using reference of naam simran here, it is referring to the practical meditation practice of simran. Whereas simran on it's own is done 24/7 along with your day to day)

As far as I understand, the shabad above is telling us how we can still remain connected in 'dhian' and 'chit' to waheguru whilst going about our day. But we must possess and acquire the qualities that each tuk talks about to do this......

Have you ever wondered why some shabads have different lines that seem to be giving the same message, or could just the rahao line have been enough ?
Well, I always tell myself that the guru is not repeating himself with a throw of words, but there must be some deeper message !
It is dhur ki bhani, so there is not a single tuk that is added without it having it's own unique message and identity.
Sometimes, you see it and at other times you may not see it until years later.

Well, in the above shabad, there is a slightly different message of ''How to be connected with waheguru in day to day life in addition to naam simran''
..I can only see it at a basic level as yet, but obviously it can be much much deeper.
Gurbani is a treasure of immeasurable depth that can never be fully concluded or boxed.

ੴ ਸਤਿਗੁਰ ਪ੍ਰਸਾਦਿ ॥
Ik▫oaʼnkār saṯgur parsāḏ.
One Universal Creator God. By The Grace Of The True Guru:

ਆਨੀਲੇ ਕਾਗਦੁ ਕਾਟੀਲੇ ਗੂਡੀ ਆਕਾਸ ਮਧੇ ਭਰਮੀਅਲੇ ॥
Ānīle kāgaḏ kātīle gūdī ākās maḏẖe bẖarmī▫ale.
The boy takes paper, cuts it and makes a kite, and flies it in the sky.

ਪੰਚ ਜਨਾ ਸਿਉ ਬਾਤ ਬਤਊਆ ਚੀਤੁ ਸੁ ਡੋਰੀ ਰਾਖੀਅਲੇ ॥੧॥
Pancẖ janā si▫o bāṯ baṯa▫ū▫ā cẖīṯ so dorī rākẖī▫ale. ||1||
Talking with his friends, he still keeps his attention on the kite string. ||1||

Distraction-is main point here........... to not let activities and distractions encountered distract you away from the string that connects you.
Distractions of all the 5 thieves can loose anyone's string quite easily.

ਮਨੁ ਰਾਮ ਨਾਮਾ ਬੇਧੀਅਲੇ ॥
Man rām nāmā beḏẖī▫ale.
My mind has been pierced by the Name of the Lord,

ਜੈਸੇ ਕਨਿਕ ਕਲਾ ਚਿਤੁ ਮਾਂਡੀਅਲੇ ॥੧॥ ਰਹਾਉ ॥
जैसे कनिक कला चितु मांडीअले ॥१॥ रहाउ ॥
Jaise kanik kalā cẖiṯ māʼndī▫ale. ||1|| rahā▫o.
like the goldsmith, whose attention is held by his work. ||1||Pause||

Keep your attention on what is the real wealth and value to you.
The goldsmith handles gems and gold of high maya value and with precision he pierces the joints that may hold ruby's and diamonds on a ring for eg...
In same way, make the naam the piercing connection to the true wealth inside you.... Naam is the wealth.

ਆਨੀਲੇ ਕੁੰਭੁ ਭਰਾਈਲੇ ਊਦਕ ਰਾਜ ਕੁਆਰਿ ਪੁਰੰਦਰੀਏ ॥
Ānīle kumbẖ bẖarā▫īle ūḏak rāj ku▫ār puranḏrī▫e.
The young girl in the city takes a pitcher, and fills it with water.

ਹਸਤ ਬਿਨੋਦ ਬੀਚਾਰ ਕਰਤੀ ਹੈ ਚੀਤੁ ਸੁ ਗਾਗਰਿ ਰਾਖੀਅਲੇ ॥੨॥
Hasaṯ binoḏ bīcẖār karṯī hai cẖīṯ so gāgar rākẖī▫ale. ||2||
She laughs, and plays, and talks with her friends, but she keeps her attention focused on the pitcher of water. ||2||

Keeping the connection with waheguru with great CARE at all times.
Being careful so as to not let the water or waheguru's naam spill outside yourself....don't lose it !!

ਮੰਦਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਦੁਆਰ ਦਸ ਜਾ ਕੇ ਗਊ ਚਰਾਵਨ ਛਾਡੀਅਲੇ ॥
Manḏar ek ḏu▫ār ḏas jā ke ga▫ū cẖarāvan cẖẖādī▫ale.
The cow is let loose, out of the mansion of the ten gates, to graze in the field.

ਪਾਂਚ ਕੋਸ ਪਰ ਗਊ ਚਰਾਵਤ ਚੀਤੁ ਸੁ ਬਛਰਾ ਰਾਖੀਅਲੇ ॥੩॥
Pāʼncẖ kos par ga▫ū cẖarāvaṯ cẖīṯ so bacẖẖrā rākẖī▫ale. ||3||
It grazes up to five miles away, but keeps its attention focused on its calf. ||3||

This one is much deeper, and i'm only touching the surface here!
The ten gates are the ten gates of our body.
The five miles are the 5 gyan indries or 5 senses that extend out our interactions with rest of the maya world.
The calf is the source, mool, origin or atma within us.
We have to take care to not let anything we see, hear,feel, speak and smell, lead us away from our true origin of truth, the mool or atma......

ਕਹਤ ਨਾਮਦੇਉ ਸੁਨਹੁ ਤਿਲੋਚਨ ਬਾਲਕੁ ਪਾਲਨ ਪਉਢੀਅਲੇ ॥
Kahaṯ nāmḏe▫o sunhu ṯilocẖan bālak pālan pa▫udẖī▫ale.
Says Naam Dayv, listen, O Trilochan: the child is laid down in the cradle.

ਅੰਤਰਿ ਬਾਹਰਿ ਕਾਜ ਬਿਰੂਧੀ ਚੀਤੁ ਸੁ ਬਾਰਿਕ ਰਾਖੀਅਲੇ ॥੪॥੧॥
Anṯar bāhar kāj birūḏẖī cẖīṯ so bārik rākẖī▫ale. ||4||1||
Its mother is at work, inside and outside, but she holds her child in her thoughts. ||4||1||

It's the LOVE that keeps the mother's thoughts to her child's well being when in the cradle at rest.
Even when we can't be holding waheguru's name at the forefront of our internal voice as we do when doing jap in naam simran, when not doing practice of jap we may still be holding on to it in thoughts just as the mother holds baby in thoughts when physically it is not holdable in cradle.
In same way, we need to acquire and recognize that Love for sachia patshah at all times and keep that bond and hold in day to day work and rest.



When you start looking deeper and deeper and learning what mythological references are, you may realise that naam simran is essential as simran 24/7.

 

[Ishna]

Lucky Ji

Thanks for your explanation of the shabad, your thoughts are really helpful. We should have more of this!

Can you tell me what a missionary kathavachak is?

It seems that both sides of the community here at SPN have much in common, but it's being lost in terminology. I think we need a thread to clear the air.

 

[Luckysingh]

Lucky Ji

Thanks for your explanation of the shabad, your thoughts are really helpful. We should have more of this!

Can you tell me what a missionary kathavachak is?

It seems that both sides of the community here at SPN have much in common, but it's being lost in terminology. I think we need a thread to clear the air.

Sure, a missionary is the term coined to followers and preachers that speak against naam simran, meditation, nitnem, rehat..etc..
Kathavachak is used to desribe those raagis that spend more time on gurdwara stages doing katha, preaching..etc.. compared to those that do mainly kirtan.eacesign: