As predicted new information has developed. A further edition of Rozanna Spokesman suggests expands on the report that amritdharis have been banned from the Rochester Gurdwara Sahib. This news appears in other papers. I have uploaded 4 stories and one image of what looks like a notification of some kind.
USA All Amritdharis Banned From Rochester NY Gurdwara Sahib
- Status
On update, there are these additional stories. Links are provided. Some of these papers will download as pdf files because they are e-papers. All of them are in Punjabi.
Video on YouTube
Gurdwara of Rochester bans Amritdhari Sikhs part 2
Articles
Video on YouTube
Gurdwara of Rochester bans Amritdhari Sikhs part 2
Articles
Story is on Page 30 and in print on page 15
See the story at the Bottom right
See Page 4
See Page 15
This information was kindly forwarded by Mai Harinder Kaur ji
hmm, I don;t think this topic is about maryadas, but if it is, then all I can say is that SGPC and the "jathas", namdharis, who know who else and what other sects have forsaken puratan maryada and folow their own ones that they made.
So I think this make my own maryada mentality was started all the ways back in the BRitish Raaj mostlly by Singh Sabha sikhs. IF all the singhs started folowing maryada of khalsa fauj instead of their own sects,s and commitees, but if only. Many sikhs do nindya of purataan maryada anyways, so can;t say much now...
So I think this make my own maryada mentality was started all the ways back in the BRitish Raaj mostlly by Singh Sabha sikhs. IF all the singhs started folowing maryada of khalsa fauj instead of their own sects,s and commitees, but if only. Many sikhs do nindya of purataan maryada anyways, so can;t say much now...
- Nov 24, 2004
- 29
- 71
- 81
Dear Readers,
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
Not to worry. The plus point about Sikhi is that there is no compulsion. This sort of problem comes up when some diehards try to coerce others to adopt Amritdhari Maryada. Why should you? It is voluntary. You live a per the Maryada and other will follow you if the Guru so desires.
Let them -the clean shaven so called Sikhs- do what they want in their registered 'private Church or Gurdwara’. If the Keshdhari Sikhs of Rochester are true to their faith -which they must be- then they may try and open a new Gurdwara -with the kind blessing of the Mighty Guru- in a nearby locality if not next to them. Waheguru is the great Healer Who will make sense out of non-sense.
But the Keshdhari Sikhs should make sure that no clean shaven Sikh controls their Gurdwara. At the same time, they must live as per the Maryada and leave the rest to Waheguru.
This incident reminds me of a Saint I met in Chandigarh almost 45 years ago. He predicted about the '1984' and also said that the Keshdhari Sikh will become almost rare. Then there shall be a wave of Amrit-pan. This is like a full circle. It is the Hukum, "Raj Karega Khalsa aaki rahe na koye. Khawar hoe so mellain-ge, bache sharan jo hoe." Pardon me if the wordings are not perfect. But the catch word is bache sharan jo hoe which means that those who will survive the degradation or this temporary downturn.
Therefore, this is the same process. Let those, who don't want to follow the Keshdhari Maryada, be as they are. There is no need to try to bring them back or coerce them. They probably feel depressed that they have to grow hair and keep a heavy turban over their heads to show their religion. Those of them who are destined, will come back in their own time. The rest will go through the process of 'wandering aimlessly in the ten-disha or directions' as Guru Maharaj says.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
Not to worry. The plus point about Sikhi is that there is no compulsion. This sort of problem comes up when some diehards try to coerce others to adopt Amritdhari Maryada. Why should you? It is voluntary. You live a per the Maryada and other will follow you if the Guru so desires.
Let them -the clean shaven so called Sikhs- do what they want in their registered 'private Church or Gurdwara’. If the Keshdhari Sikhs of Rochester are true to their faith -which they must be- then they may try and open a new Gurdwara -with the kind blessing of the Mighty Guru- in a nearby locality if not next to them. Waheguru is the great Healer Who will make sense out of non-sense.
But the Keshdhari Sikhs should make sure that no clean shaven Sikh controls their Gurdwara. At the same time, they must live as per the Maryada and leave the rest to Waheguru.
This incident reminds me of a Saint I met in Chandigarh almost 45 years ago. He predicted about the '1984' and also said that the Keshdhari Sikh will become almost rare. Then there shall be a wave of Amrit-pan. This is like a full circle. It is the Hukum, "Raj Karega Khalsa aaki rahe na koye. Khawar hoe so mellain-ge, bache sharan jo hoe." Pardon me if the wordings are not perfect. But the catch word is bache sharan jo hoe which means that those who will survive the degradation or this temporary downturn.
Therefore, this is the same process. Let those, who don't want to follow the Keshdhari Maryada, be as they are. There is no need to try to bring them back or coerce them. They probably feel depressed that they have to grow hair and keep a heavy turban over their heads to show their religion. Those of them who are destined, will come back in their own time. The rest will go through the process of 'wandering aimlessly in the ten-disha or directions' as Guru Maharaj says.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
Tejwant Singh ji,
Excellent open minded and positive thoughts!
I am sure with such an attitude Guru Gobind Singh Jis wish of having 96 crore (960 million) Khalsa will materialise sometime!
Gurufateh and chardiankalan!
Excellent open minded and positive thoughts!
I am sure with such an attitude Guru Gobind Singh Jis wish of having 96 crore (960 million) Khalsa will materialise sometime!
Gurufateh and chardiankalan!
** Update Video Discussion on This Topic Between the Organizers of Rochester, NY Radio Talk Show 2: Login | Facebook
- Nov 24, 2004
- 29
- 71
- 81
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
Thank you harbansj24 ji.
May Waheguru bless us all with an open mind for welfare of the common people after our daily Beseeching Him, "Nanak Naam Chad di Klah Tere Bhane Sarbat da Bhala".
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
Thank you harbansj24 ji.
May Waheguru bless us all with an open mind for welfare of the common people after our daily Beseeching Him, "Nanak Naam Chad di Klah Tere Bhane Sarbat da Bhala".
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
- Oct 10, 2009
- 48
- 47
I really don't what to make of this one thing is sure Sikhi is going through hard times by saying that only internally one can be a Sikh, the people who are making these statement really don't about Sikh religion.
This has become everyday norm that these things are happening and moreover their is
no political will to solves these problems from Deras Prof. Darshan to this neither from
SGPC OR Akal Takth Sahib in contrast people like Darshan Singh who have been declared
" Tankhia" have been allowed bec if they " Apologise" they can be considered
These guys have taken over the institutions of Sikh religion and it's going to happen
again and again Like one in Rochester until their is any solution to this problem which is
prevailing Sikh community in this day and age.
Regards
Gurveen Singh
This has become everyday norm that these things are happening and moreover their is
no political will to solves these problems from Deras Prof. Darshan to this neither from
SGPC OR Akal Takth Sahib in contrast people like Darshan Singh who have been declared
" Tankhia" have been allowed bec if they " Apologise" they can be considered
These guys have taken over the institutions of Sikh religion and it's going to happen
again and again Like one in Rochester until their is any solution to this problem which is
prevailing Sikh community in this day and age.
Regards
Gurveen Singh
- Nov 24, 2004
- 29
- 71
- 81
Dear Gurveen Singhji,
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
Each community or each religion is like an ocean or a Sagar or even a Maha-Sagar.
There is a reference in Guru Granth Sahibji to the 'Sagar-Mathan' which comes from the old Hindu scriptures.
If you recollect, the Devas and the Rakshas took Sumer Parbat -the famous Sumer mountain which lies in Tibet and is supposed to be the abode of Shivji Maharaj or Mahadev. They wrapped around it the Sea Serpent and they lowered it into the Sagar. Once in position, they grabbed the ends of the Sea Serpent and pulled towards their sides, one-by-one, -like you do for churning the old fashioned wooden Madhani -churner- when butter has to be extracted from Dahi.
(In these times, those living in urban areas may not know or have seen a wooden Madhani but, those who hail from rural areas or agricultural background would know. Many households have stated using electrically operated Madhanis now.)
And when the Devas and the Rakshas carried on churning the ocean, a massive froth was created. There was much excitement and noise too. Finally, after lot of churning, two things came out of the Sagar: Amrit on one side and Vish -poison- on the other side.
It so happened that when the Amrit came out, the Rakshas were close by. When they saw the Amrit, which gave them the possibility of being immortals, they picked it up and ran. The Devas were obviously upset because if the Rakshas drink Amrit, then the whole world will be turned up side down. Morality would vanish. They chased the Rakshas and were able to snatch the Amrit from them after much fight.
(During the fight, when a drop of Amrit fell on earth, it is believed that Lassan -garlic- took seed.)
In the meanwhile, Vish -poison- which was also there, would have finished the world if Mahadev had not put it in his mouth and swallowed it. That is why Mahadev's skin color is black or blue -he consumed the Vish and saved the world according to the scriptures. You may consider the Vish to be the environment pollution of today.
Some of the readers may wonder what this story has got to do with what is happening to Sikhi?
If a reader has not understood the implication and meaning of this story, then that person needs to sit and do lots of Simran of the Holy Bani: truth maybe revealed then.
However, I don't want to keep the suspense. I said in the beginning that, 'Each community or each religion is like an ocean or a Sagar'. We are, therefore, going through the process of Sagar-Mathan of Sikhi.
Contemplate my dear readers, contemplate. Which role are you playing in this Sagar-Mathan? Are you a Deva or a Rakshas?
Just you wait.. Once the Sagar-Mathan will be over, a new Sansar is going to start where the "Raj-Kareyga-Khalsa" maybe be a reality. Only requirement of the times now is that each one of us may try to be true to ask ourselves, 'which side of the Madhani -churner- am I: Deva or Rakshas?
I would not like to call any names to those who have created this situation -Clean shaven for doing this or the Amritdharis who may have provoked them. Time will tell. Let us not forget, in the anger and excitement, that you need two hands to clap. And there is always a spark, how so ever small, which starts a fire.
And those Amritdharis who have been Banned, my suggestion is that they may work to set up a new Gurdwara and invite everyone to come there, as per Maryada.
Remember the world is watching you and your Code of Conduct. Sikhi is voluntary. I was telling a Christian the other day: others are welcome to join us if they feel, from our actions, that we are better than them. We don't have to go around trumpeting our goodness or saying to others that the Guru is the only one to save us from our sins, as they say that Jesus is the only one.
Let us ask, "Am I doing the right thing? Would my Guru, if He was present in a bodily form, admonish me or bless me for my Karma?
For understanding the difference between 'them' and 'us', you may like to see my views and comparative studies at Don't Mistake Me for a Muslim
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
Each community or each religion is like an ocean or a Sagar or even a Maha-Sagar.
There is a reference in Guru Granth Sahibji to the 'Sagar-Mathan' which comes from the old Hindu scriptures.
If you recollect, the Devas and the Rakshas took Sumer Parbat -the famous Sumer mountain which lies in Tibet and is supposed to be the abode of Shivji Maharaj or Mahadev. They wrapped around it the Sea Serpent and they lowered it into the Sagar. Once in position, they grabbed the ends of the Sea Serpent and pulled towards their sides, one-by-one, -like you do for churning the old fashioned wooden Madhani -churner- when butter has to be extracted from Dahi.
(In these times, those living in urban areas may not know or have seen a wooden Madhani but, those who hail from rural areas or agricultural background would know. Many households have stated using electrically operated Madhanis now.)
And when the Devas and the Rakshas carried on churning the ocean, a massive froth was created. There was much excitement and noise too. Finally, after lot of churning, two things came out of the Sagar: Amrit on one side and Vish -poison- on the other side.
It so happened that when the Amrit came out, the Rakshas were close by. When they saw the Amrit, which gave them the possibility of being immortals, they picked it up and ran. The Devas were obviously upset because if the Rakshas drink Amrit, then the whole world will be turned up side down. Morality would vanish. They chased the Rakshas and were able to snatch the Amrit from them after much fight.
(During the fight, when a drop of Amrit fell on earth, it is believed that Lassan -garlic- took seed.)
In the meanwhile, Vish -poison- which was also there, would have finished the world if Mahadev had not put it in his mouth and swallowed it. That is why Mahadev's skin color is black or blue -he consumed the Vish and saved the world according to the scriptures. You may consider the Vish to be the environment pollution of today.
Some of the readers may wonder what this story has got to do with what is happening to Sikhi?
If a reader has not understood the implication and meaning of this story, then that person needs to sit and do lots of Simran of the Holy Bani: truth maybe revealed then.
However, I don't want to keep the suspense. I said in the beginning that, 'Each community or each religion is like an ocean or a Sagar'. We are, therefore, going through the process of Sagar-Mathan of Sikhi.
Contemplate my dear readers, contemplate. Which role are you playing in this Sagar-Mathan? Are you a Deva or a Rakshas?
Just you wait.. Once the Sagar-Mathan will be over, a new Sansar is going to start where the "Raj-Kareyga-Khalsa" maybe be a reality. Only requirement of the times now is that each one of us may try to be true to ask ourselves, 'which side of the Madhani -churner- am I: Deva or Rakshas?
I would not like to call any names to those who have created this situation -Clean shaven for doing this or the Amritdharis who may have provoked them. Time will tell. Let us not forget, in the anger and excitement, that you need two hands to clap. And there is always a spark, how so ever small, which starts a fire.
And those Amritdharis who have been Banned, my suggestion is that they may work to set up a new Gurdwara and invite everyone to come there, as per Maryada.
Remember the world is watching you and your Code of Conduct. Sikhi is voluntary. I was telling a Christian the other day: others are welcome to join us if they feel, from our actions, that we are better than them. We don't have to go around trumpeting our goodness or saying to others that the Guru is the only one to save us from our sins, as they say that Jesus is the only one.
Let us ask, "Am I doing the right thing? Would my Guru, if He was present in a bodily form, admonish me or bless me for my Karma?
For understanding the difference between 'them' and 'us', you may like to see my views and comparative studies at Don't Mistake Me for a Muslim
Waheguru ji ka Khalsa Waheguru ji ki Fateh.
- Oct 10, 2009
- 48
- 47
Gurfateh ji,
Tejwant Singh1 ji, I appreciate you're comments but I would like to shed
some light on few things in couple of articles.
With all due respect, if someone practices his religion according to tenets
of Rehat does not become a die hard cohesive Sikh and it's up to an individual to decide weather to take Amrit or not because their is no comp
lusion in Sikh religion.
As Tejwant Singh1 ji keeping Rehat is a very displined life so instead of rasing questions we should appreciate it because it Keeps a Sikh away from day to day ills of society.
"Khalsa Mero Roop hai Khalsa Khalsa mein hoon Karon Nivas" ( Sahib Guru
Gobind Singh JI Maharaj)
So if the following the rehat which isordained by Tenth Master as die hard
cohesive Sikhs then who would wall those who commit evil acts in the name of religion?
Let me explain further it's not easy to keep rehat but we can learn from it
weather if someone has taken Amrit or not as simple as that.
Well, if a Sikh is made the trustee of the Gurdwara Sahib or Management
this problem won't arise it won't make headlines. Just Imagine a Chrsitain
is the head trustee of a Mosque, Muslims will never allowed to happen they
will appoint someone from their community. Their is always solution to the
problem in the same way Sikh should be made head of the department then
their will absolutely no problems. What's you're take on it?
Just compare this situation have you ever heard places of worship dragged
into controvery in other religions like Islam or Christanity. You're right Sikhs
will form their own Gurdwara but what's the need of causing confusion in
first place?
One should also appreciate the message of Gurbani admist all these controverises which are totally uncalled for
From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1|| (Ang 1349)[/FONT]
So Gurbai Sahib clearly explains everyone has come from one light[/FONT]
so then who is good or bad weather it is Christain, Muslim, Jew or[/FONT]
Hindu so if somone recite Gurbani Sahib which itseld talks about
[/FONT]
Humatarism just by keeping rehat does not become die hard Sikh.
[/FONT]
You're a famous scholar but let me remind the fact that [/FONT]Sikh religion
is a religion of Saints so not everyone can reach this Avstha as Singhs call
it so the world does not know about you're code of conduct neither mine
because in the eyes of world we're all Sikhs.
Well regarding Us and them here the answer " Regarding all Human race as
one" ( Dasam Granth)
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ke Fateh
Regards
Gurveen Singh
Tejwant Singh1 ji, I appreciate you're comments but I would like to shed
some light on few things in couple of articles.
With all due respect, if someone practices his religion according to tenets
of Rehat does not become a die hard cohesive Sikh and it's up to an individual to decide weather to take Amrit or not because their is no comp
lusion in Sikh religion.
As Tejwant Singh1 ji keeping Rehat is a very displined life so instead of rasing questions we should appreciate it because it Keeps a Sikh away from day to day ills of society.
"Khalsa Mero Roop hai Khalsa Khalsa mein hoon Karon Nivas" ( Sahib Guru
Gobind Singh JI Maharaj)
So if the following the rehat which isordained by Tenth Master as die hard
cohesive Sikhs then who would wall those who commit evil acts in the name of religion?
Let me explain further it's not easy to keep rehat but we can learn from it
weather if someone has taken Amrit or not as simple as that.
Well, if a Sikh is made the trustee of the Gurdwara Sahib or Management
this problem won't arise it won't make headlines. Just Imagine a Chrsitain
is the head trustee of a Mosque, Muslims will never allowed to happen they
will appoint someone from their community. Their is always solution to the
problem in the same way Sikh should be made head of the department then
their will absolutely no problems. What's you're take on it?
Just compare this situation have you ever heard places of worship dragged
into controvery in other religions like Islam or Christanity. You're right Sikhs
will form their own Gurdwara but what's the need of causing confusion in
first place?
One should also appreciate the message of Gurbani admist all these controverises which are totally uncalled for
From the One Light, the entire universe welled up. So who is good, and who is bad? ||1|| (Ang 1349)[/FONT]
So Gurbai Sahib clearly explains everyone has come from one light[/FONT]
so then who is good or bad weather it is Christain, Muslim, Jew or[/FONT]
Hindu so if somone recite Gurbani Sahib which itseld talks about
[/FONT]
Humatarism just by keeping rehat does not become die hard Sikh.
[/FONT]
You're a famous scholar but let me remind the fact that [/FONT]Sikh religion
is a religion of Saints so not everyone can reach this Avstha as Singhs call
it so the world does not know about you're code of conduct neither mine
because in the eyes of world we're all Sikhs.
Well regarding Us and them here the answer " Regarding all Human race as
one" ( Dasam Granth)
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ke Fateh
Regards
Gurveen Singh
Last edited by a moderator:
I need to make a clarification on this thread. Tejwant Singh1 ji and Tejwant Singh are two entirely different forum members. Posting most recently on this thread is Tejwant Singh1 ji.
I will making the appropriate corrections.
I will making the appropriate corrections.
- Nov 24, 2004
- 29
- 71
- 81
Dear Gurveen Singh ji,
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ke Fateh!
To start with, I am not a Scholar or a Giani of Sikh studies.
In my perception, the Rehat does not make us "die hard cohesive Sikhs" but liberal minded because the Rehat of a Khalsa Sikh is a living Tapasya: compare it to wandering the forest or sitting secluded upon a hilltop with no worldly responsibilities or a Sanyas, to find God. Since it's a Tapasya, it is all the more reason that the Tapasvi has to make his mind immune to the worldly pressures: questioning his Rehat or condemning it or making fun of it or calling a turbaned Sikh "a Rag-head" as the common Americans say. That is why I started the blog at Don’t Mistake Me for a Muslim -to educate those who don't know.
Therefore, rather than react in a hardcore manner, we must go through this phase with a 'smile'.
In the case of the Gurdwara at Rochester NY, it is not correct for any outsider to condemn the clean shaven Sikhs who have banned the turbaned Sikhs because we don't know what forced their hand. My suspicion is that there was provocation from one side. "One can not clap with one hand," and it requires, "A small spark to start a fire."
I am an Amritdhari living in India and I have seen, during my several visits to America, that some turbaned Sikhs openly speak ill of those who have shaven, for whatever reason. That is being "die-hard-Sikhs" and not "a-cohesive-Sikh".
Therefore, under the circumstance, it is best for the turbaned Sikhs of Rochester to consider it as the Hukum of the Guru "to move away from the 'other-side' or 'them'." Who knows what may happen next like what happened in Austria about a year ago.
It is a very difficult not to react after a provocation. What must have passed through the mind of Guru Hargobind ji Maharaj when Guru Arjan Dev ji Maharaj was arrested on trumped up charges and tortured?" What transpired with Guru Teg Bahadur ji Maharaj and Guru Gobind Singh ji, changed history. What happened during the Mughal times, until the Sikh Raj was created, is a valorous history you are very familiar with. But that was a Sagar-Mathan in a small region of Punjab.
But Sikhs have now gone global. Dimensions have become large and the 'process' will also be large. That is where my reference to the Sagar-Mathan comes in again because the Sikh Sansar is going through it on a larger dimension.
As I was getting ready for the next post of my blog titled "Nikki Haley Indian-American enters 2010 Race", the question of her going to the Church as well as to the Gurdwara came up. One Christian, I know in America, has emailed, "Christianity demands total allegiance—no American Methodist would consider someone who embraces a second religion (Nikki's Sikh faith) a genuine Methodist. That is why the man was so vehement about her embrace of Christianity: Jesus Christ is the end-all and be-all with no room for other religions."
When you compare the three Semitic religions, which started in West Asia, with Indian philosophies, then you realize how liberal we Indian really are. This is where a comparative study of 'them' and 'us' comes in.
Because all the Names of God come up in the Holy Hymns, the saving grace for Humanity is the Guru Granth Sahib. Even when the Bible is translated into Indian languages, they use the word KHUDA for God. Correct me if I am wrong: I think I have read 'Khuda' in Guru Granth Sahib.
Cosmologically, we are all one. But in the physical world, man has called HIM with different names in different parts of the world as per his limited understanding. It is a human failing but time is racing rapidly. The world has become a small place. Let us go through this Sagar-Mathan and let others find their saviour in Guru Granth Sahib.
Therefore, it brings me to the point which I made in my earlier post: we Keshdhari Sikhs have to live an exemplary life. We have to go through this difficult time with a daily Ardas, "Tu Mera Rakha Sabni Thai", and that, "Thou Will May Prevail".
It's difficult but that is what Tapasya is all about.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ke Fateh!
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ke Fateh!
To start with, I am not a Scholar or a Giani of Sikh studies.
In my perception, the Rehat does not make us "die hard cohesive Sikhs" but liberal minded because the Rehat of a Khalsa Sikh is a living Tapasya: compare it to wandering the forest or sitting secluded upon a hilltop with no worldly responsibilities or a Sanyas, to find God. Since it's a Tapasya, it is all the more reason that the Tapasvi has to make his mind immune to the worldly pressures: questioning his Rehat or condemning it or making fun of it or calling a turbaned Sikh "a Rag-head" as the common Americans say. That is why I started the blog at Don’t Mistake Me for a Muslim -to educate those who don't know.
Therefore, rather than react in a hardcore manner, we must go through this phase with a 'smile'.
In the case of the Gurdwara at Rochester NY, it is not correct for any outsider to condemn the clean shaven Sikhs who have banned the turbaned Sikhs because we don't know what forced their hand. My suspicion is that there was provocation from one side. "One can not clap with one hand," and it requires, "A small spark to start a fire."
I am an Amritdhari living in India and I have seen, during my several visits to America, that some turbaned Sikhs openly speak ill of those who have shaven, for whatever reason. That is being "die-hard-Sikhs" and not "a-cohesive-Sikh".
Therefore, under the circumstance, it is best for the turbaned Sikhs of Rochester to consider it as the Hukum of the Guru "to move away from the 'other-side' or 'them'." Who knows what may happen next like what happened in Austria about a year ago.
It is a very difficult not to react after a provocation. What must have passed through the mind of Guru Hargobind ji Maharaj when Guru Arjan Dev ji Maharaj was arrested on trumped up charges and tortured?" What transpired with Guru Teg Bahadur ji Maharaj and Guru Gobind Singh ji, changed history. What happened during the Mughal times, until the Sikh Raj was created, is a valorous history you are very familiar with. But that was a Sagar-Mathan in a small region of Punjab.
But Sikhs have now gone global. Dimensions have become large and the 'process' will also be large. That is where my reference to the Sagar-Mathan comes in again because the Sikh Sansar is going through it on a larger dimension.
As I was getting ready for the next post of my blog titled "Nikki Haley Indian-American enters 2010 Race", the question of her going to the Church as well as to the Gurdwara came up. One Christian, I know in America, has emailed, "Christianity demands total allegiance—no American Methodist would consider someone who embraces a second religion (Nikki's Sikh faith) a genuine Methodist. That is why the man was so vehement about her embrace of Christianity: Jesus Christ is the end-all and be-all with no room for other religions."
When you compare the three Semitic religions, which started in West Asia, with Indian philosophies, then you realize how liberal we Indian really are. This is where a comparative study of 'them' and 'us' comes in.
Because all the Names of God come up in the Holy Hymns, the saving grace for Humanity is the Guru Granth Sahib. Even when the Bible is translated into Indian languages, they use the word KHUDA for God. Correct me if I am wrong: I think I have read 'Khuda' in Guru Granth Sahib.
Cosmologically, we are all one. But in the physical world, man has called HIM with different names in different parts of the world as per his limited understanding. It is a human failing but time is racing rapidly. The world has become a small place. Let us go through this Sagar-Mathan and let others find their saviour in Guru Granth Sahib.
Therefore, it brings me to the point which I made in my earlier post: we Keshdhari Sikhs have to live an exemplary life. We have to go through this difficult time with a daily Ardas, "Tu Mera Rakha Sabni Thai", and that, "Thou Will May Prevail".
It's difficult but that is what Tapasya is all about.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ke Fateh!
Tejwant Singh1 ji
I would not worry too much about a re-run of Austria in this situation. Of course anything is possible. However, this particular controversy is more about legal strategy and the wording of ordinances and statutes in a civil court, than about sectarian differences. Actually this controversy can be solved very quickly if the amritdharis were to simply pull out and form their own sangat. Without amritdharis there is no sangat, whether we like them or we don't like them. No amritdharis, no panj pyaare, no panj pyare no sangat. Any amritdharis that would stick around would eventually see that they were ineligible to call themselves Khalsa. What would be ieft of the Rochester Gurdwara would be only a prayer hall, and not a gurdwara. That is the long and the short of it.
On the other hand, if the truth of the story is that only the most political members of the amritdhari group are the ones who are protesting the court decision, they are not going to make any progress and are wasting their time. This is really a very pragmatic problem about whether adults can find ways to bridge differences.
I would not worry too much about a re-run of Austria in this situation. Of course anything is possible. However, this particular controversy is more about legal strategy and the wording of ordinances and statutes in a civil court, than about sectarian differences. Actually this controversy can be solved very quickly if the amritdharis were to simply pull out and form their own sangat. Without amritdharis there is no sangat, whether we like them or we don't like them. No amritdharis, no panj pyaare, no panj pyare no sangat. Any amritdharis that would stick around would eventually see that they were ineligible to call themselves Khalsa. What would be ieft of the Rochester Gurdwara would be only a prayer hall, and not a gurdwara. That is the long and the short of it.
On the other hand, if the truth of the story is that only the most political members of the amritdhari group are the ones who are protesting the court decision, they are not going to make any progress and are wasting their time. This is really a very pragmatic problem about whether adults can find ways to bridge differences.
- Nov 24, 2004
- 29
- 71
- 81
Narayanjot Kaur ji,
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ke Fateh!
I agree with you one hundred percent: "Without Amritdharis there is no Sangat: no Amritdharis; no Panj Pyaare; no Panj Pyaare, no Sangat."
You have hit the nail on the head.
That is what I trying to say in my first post. Maybe I am amplified too much which attracted questions to answered by me.
In a way, this sort of situation helps us to do an analysis of our deeds. It helps the Khalsa to remain steadfast.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ke Fateh!
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ke Fateh!
I agree with you one hundred percent: "Without Amritdharis there is no Sangat: no Amritdharis; no Panj Pyaare; no Panj Pyaare, no Sangat."
You have hit the nail on the head.
That is what I trying to say in my first post. Maybe I am amplified too much which attracted questions to answered by me.
In a way, this sort of situation helps us to do an analysis of our deeds. It helps the Khalsa to remain steadfast.
Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji ke Fateh!
An update on this topic can be found in a separate thread at this link,
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/unite...demns-board-trustees-gurdwara.html#post129279
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/unite...demns-board-trustees-gurdwara.html#post129279
CharlesKnuckles
SPNer
- Jul 1, 2010
- 22
- 0
To all reasonable Sikhs:
The facts of this case have been heavily distorted by the so-called Amridharis in Rochester. In fact, one of the ring leaders of these renegade sikhs is a convicted criminal currently on probation for violating US Labor laws for hiring Illegal Aliens.
Additionally, the other ring leader is a person whose daughter converted from Sikh to Islam to marry a Muslim. Instead of taking responsibility for his own failure to teach his children the value of being a Sikh, he is blaming the Gurdwara of Rochester for not being Sikh enough.
The current New York State ruling banned three people (and their families) only...NOT ALL AMRIDHARIES. Additionally, after the New York State judge saw video and photographic evidence of these three individuals making seriously distruptive actions during Gurdwara ceremonies, including trying to start several riots with swords drawn, the judge determined that all weapons need to be banned from to avoid incidents like what occured in Cleveland, Toronto, and in Europe.
All Sikhs, including TRUE Amridharis, are still welcome in the Gurdwara of Rochester as they always have. However, they must not bring any long swords, and unfortunately, Kirpans thanks to the aggressive and irresponsible actions of the three banned individuals.
The reality is that these three individuals should be banned from EVERY Gurdwara for using fowl language, including curse words, in the presence of the Guru Granth Sahib located at the Gurdwara of Rochester.
Do not let half truths and distorted facts taint the reputation that the Gurdwara of Rochester has built over the last SEVERAL decades.
The facts of this case have been heavily distorted by the so-called Amridharis in Rochester. In fact, one of the ring leaders of these renegade sikhs is a convicted criminal currently on probation for violating US Labor laws for hiring Illegal Aliens.
Additionally, the other ring leader is a person whose daughter converted from Sikh to Islam to marry a Muslim. Instead of taking responsibility for his own failure to teach his children the value of being a Sikh, he is blaming the Gurdwara of Rochester for not being Sikh enough.
The current New York State ruling banned three people (and their families) only...NOT ALL AMRIDHARIES. Additionally, after the New York State judge saw video and photographic evidence of these three individuals making seriously distruptive actions during Gurdwara ceremonies, including trying to start several riots with swords drawn, the judge determined that all weapons need to be banned from to avoid incidents like what occured in Cleveland, Toronto, and in Europe.
All Sikhs, including TRUE Amridharis, are still welcome in the Gurdwara of Rochester as they always have. However, they must not bring any long swords, and unfortunately, Kirpans thanks to the aggressive and irresponsible actions of the three banned individuals.
The reality is that these three individuals should be banned from EVERY Gurdwara for using fowl language, including curse words, in the presence of the Guru Granth Sahib located at the Gurdwara of Rochester.
Do not let half truths and distorted facts taint the reputation that the Gurdwara of Rochester has built over the last SEVERAL decades.
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