Am I A Sikh, Or A Heretic?

[harsimiritkaur]

"Kabir manus janam dulamb heh
Hoey nan bare baar
Jyon ban fal paakey
Bhuing gireh
Bahur nan laage ddaar."

Oh Kabir, man's birth is precious and rare
and it does not reincarnate again and again..."

Birth and death are like an illusion. Things are not as they appear.

"Nahi janam nahi maran"
"There is no birth nor death."

The punishment of janam and maran are used in GGS from HIndu philosophy to emphasize the need to stay on the right track, not to sin.

 

[DavNeil]

I was driving and had a revelation that GOD/Allah/Bhagvan/Ahur Mazda/Yehova/Vaheguru, if can be defined with duality then knowing one will gets you to know the other. No one knows HIM means HE is Unknown and then we say HE is everything. Mahatma Budh, if I take recent example, went about religious philosophy in a so called scientific way. You know what is around you or inside you which is physical and non physical then what is left of non physical and physical is unknown of is beyond imagination (Tera Par Na Paya). Unknown can always happen and when you have faith in Unknown and you keep knowing him you go closer to HIM which is true Karma or same in different way is existentialism. I don't know how heretic comes in picture because instead of keep solving your problems you took a position and stopped at point saying this is not enough and you crossed over and then found something which has not been said. You are not heretic, no religion in the world be not evolving though mighty Brahmins/Levis in Judaism or Hinduism or other priestly classe from other religion will say you are heretic because they stopped and are tired to know more about HIM, so instead of admitting they are tired, they say you are foolish and going forward. This is enough and you should also stop with us. At the same don't keep going it is not meant for all. All of us will stop some day but it is up to you to find out when to stop.

 

[DavNeil]

"Kabir manus janam dulamb heh
Hoey nan bare baar
Jyon ban fal paakey
Bhuing gireh
Bahur nan laage ddaar."

Oh Kabir, man's birth is precious and rare
and it does not reincarnate again and again..."

Birth and death are like an illusion. Things are not as they appear.

"Nahi janam nahi maran"
"There is no birth nor death."

The punishment of janam and maran are used in GGS from HIndu philosophy to emphasize the need to stay on the right track, not to sin.

This is based on the thought that every life is precious and you should take that way. There is no religion in the world which degrades life except when it conflicts with a thought.

 

[ZaraONE]

WaheGuru You Simply Are GR8. As you inspire us so we speak the "evidence."

Keywords used in your email dear Paramjit Ji

Param = The Best / Supreme Highest
42 = Guru Gobind Singh Ji age
KI = was capitalized below = KI means energy also. One simple "sound vibration" many meanings across many cultures as KA is across many cultures.
Tester (Guru is our testing authority, those that have been tested know)
Ten-or (Ten Guru's)
http://www.searchgurbani.com/guru_granth_sahib/ang/70
Ang 70 = Message for this board

The Universe operates with precision. Why would we discount that the Intelligence is not working through our fingers and consciousness? As he "tunes us, so we observe." Watch with vigilance. Guru's Evidence speaks through each of us. There is no duality only 1. Does not matter what language all belong to the 1 Supreme Creator. Read English phonetically and ONE will show it's (s/he unified) presence. America - AMER-ICA - Adidas - ADI-DAS - Quebec -Que-B-EC (why be one)

WaheGuru's Blessings Upon All Humanity.

That was just a tester because I am posting a comment for the first time here. So please reciprocate the divine greeting once again

Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa!
Waheguru Ji KI Fateh!!

My name is Paramjit Singh. 42 years old I am a civil engineer and immigrated to Montreal Quebec Canada in Sep 2009 with a family of two children. I have been a saabat soorat sikh all my life, with His blessings but I am not an Amritdhari yet. About partaking Amrit I did not have any plans till 2003 but now I crave to do so and am trying to make myself worthy of it!!

NOW COMING TO THE PURPOSE OF MY POSTING. I read a couple postings here esp "Am I a Heretic or a Sikh?" I could easily see the plight of the person who posted it. He is not an exception but the norm!! Today most of the Sikhs feel impelled to project themselves as modern Sikhs who have a scientific bent of mind and who therefore, do not believe in any kind of ritualistic practices, neither do the concepts of "karma", "transmigration of soul", "jammas or yammas", "swarg and narak", Brahma', 'Vishnu', 'Mahesh' and many more like these find any place in their religious philosophy (I've scrupulously shunned the phrase 'Spiritual Philosophy' because the word 'Spiritual' meaning ‘of or relating to the Spirit’ will unwittingly and at this stage unnecessarily invoke these very concepts which our 21st century Sikhs are positively averse to. We will be using these terms when the discussion moves forth, but definitely we will not be using them for NOW). For them Sikhism is a Modern religion and therefore these old religious principles must be carefully kept away in order to preserve its 'modern' and 'scientific' look. But with an over-zealous attitude like this QUITE OFTEN THEY THROW THE BABY OUT WITH THE BATHTUB!!

And deep down I feel it is not their fault, really. Because this drama of life that Waheguru has set into motion on this world stage is so subtle that nobody can understand it without his ‘grace’. It does not mean there is no Spiritual teacher to explain it. Rather the opposite, we, the Sikhs, are the heir to the most precious and complete spiritual treatise on Earth in the form of Guru Granth Saheb Ji - our eternal Guru. But the tragedy is this that we are never in the listening mode, not even when we are in his holy presence in a Gurudwara that we can listen to and understand Guru’s word. Our mind (mann) is ever engrossed in its myriad and unending thought impulses which are bombarding it all the time. The sleep time is no exception! Because what miracles the true state of listening can work, Guru Nanak Patshah narrate in Japuji Saheb in 4 Pauris Of Suniyai............So let’s pray that Waheguruji from His Kindness grace us with such a state where Guru's teachings are understood in their true tenor and meaning by us.

I too did not have this understanding of Guru's word until 2003, when Waheguru acting out of His ever compassionate nature kind of 'conspired' to send me to Satsangat where all my spiritual and metaphysical cobwebs were removed summarily. To begin with Guru Granth Sahebji define Satsangat in two ways:

1. 'Satsangat kaisi jaaniye. Jitthe eko naam vakhaaniye'

i.e. Satsangat (the Holy congregation as per Sikh spiritual yardstick) is that where the secret of 'Naam' is revealed to the devotees and the spiritual-seekers assembled. There is no other criterion used by Guru Saheb Ji in defining Satsangat here. Not the shape or color of the turban nor the presence, absence or length of the beard on the faces of seekers congregated (No one please, please try to conclude from this that turbans or beards are not essential tenet of Sikhism, nor should anybody conclude that without these there cannot exist a sincere spiritual-seeker. It is only this that at the moment I just want to make you realize how important it is to understand what Naam is as per Gurbani that Guru Saheb has formed it the basis to define Satsangat).

2. 'Titthay jaaye baho satsangati, jitthe har ka harnaam biloyeeye'

That you need not hesitate a bit to join 'Satsangat' where the blessed devotees are reciting His Naam, in other words, where the congregation is doing 'Simran'

I was lucky to have met and joined such a Satsangat. What I learnt there I want to share with you. My only qualification to do so is that whatever point I shall make here, in this exalted forum will have the backing of at least one tuk (line) from Gurbani i.e. from the undisputed and eternal Guru of ours: Guru Granth Sahebji. After that it will be up to you to keep it or discard it.

(to be continued...)​

 

[Harry Haller]

Harry Haller veer ji on a side note can you perhaps better define what type of heretic you are!

I can relate myself to kind of words below in blue in part,
Quote:
heretic 1. a professed believer who maintains religious opinions contrary to those accepted by his or her church or rejects doctrines prescribed by that church.

2.Roman Catholic Church. a baptized Roman Catholic who willfully and persistently rejects any article of faith.

3. anyone who does not conform to an established attitude, doctrine, or principle.

Synonyms

1. apostate, backslider, recreant, protestant. 3. dissenter, skeptic, freethinker.

heretic
early 14c., from Fr. hérétique (14c.), from Church L. hereticus, from Gk. hairetikos "able to choose," the verbal adj. of hairein
Sat Sri Akal.

Ambarsariaji,

I do not think any of these descriptions give true justice to the way I feel. Our 'church' lacks leadership and direction, and to be honest, I am not hugely sure what it stands for anymore. I do not reject any article of faith, although the third option seems slightly more appropriate.

The phrase 'able to choose' could equally apply to those that would try and dilute sikhism by, to quote Gyaniji, flouting their baldyness or drinking. To cut hair or drink is a personal choice and completely between you and God, to encourage others to do so and attempt to validate it is another thing. For the record I do both, and both hinder me to the state I would like to embrace.

No ji, I am the type of heretic that does not wish to follow blindly the rest of the herd. Maybe it is the objective of every Sikh to find the truth, but as I am unaware of anyone that has actually found the truth, which is unsurprising, as SGGS states that
(my own interpretation in blue)

ਮੰਨੇ ਕੀ ਗਤਿ ਕਹੀ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
The state of the faithful cannot be described.
If one attempts to tell you the way, clearly he is a liar

ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਪਿਛੈ ਪਛੁਤਾਇ ॥
One who tries to describe this shall regret the attempt.
So clearly one who has no regrets attempting this, and gets a nice lifestyle and cars out of the deal, is not doing a great job, or has no knowledge to share


ਕਾਗਦਿ ਕਲਮ ਨ ਲਿਖਣਹਾਰੁ
No paper, no pen, no scribe
ਮੰਨੇ ਕਾ ਬਹਿ ਕਰਨਿ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ
can record the state of the faithful.
It is clearly impossible for any person, once enlightened to share what he has


ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ
Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥੧੨॥
||12|| Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. ||12||
By following Hukam one finds this state

ਮੰਨੈ ਸੁਰਤਿ ਹੋਵੈ ਮਨਿ ਬੁਧਿ ॥
The faithful have intuitive awareness and intelligence.
ਮੰਨੈ ਸਗਲ ਭਵਣ ਕੀ ਸੁਧਿ ॥
. The faithful know about all worlds and realms.
ਮੰਨੈ ਮੁਹਿ ਚੋਟਾ ਨਾ ਖਾਇ
. The faithful shall never be struck across the face.
ਮੰਨੈ ਜਮ ਕੈ ਸਾਥਿ ਨ ਜਾਇ ॥
The faithful do not have to go with the Messenger of Death.
ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ
One who has found this state is truly enlightened

. Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥੧੩॥
||13|| Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. ||13||
ਮੰਨੈ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਠਾਕ ਨ ਪਾਇ ॥
The path of the faithful shall never be blocked.
ਮੰਨੈ ਪਤਿ ਸਿਉ ਪਰਗਟੁ ਜਾਇ ॥
. The faithful shall depart with honor and fame.
ਮੰਨੈ ਮਗੁ ਨ ਚਲੈ ਪੰਥੁ ॥
The faithful do not follow empty religious rituals.
This is one facet, I believe that truly describes those enlightened, if it feels empty, if it feels ritualistic, if it has no point, it is not worth doing, be it Kesh, path, anything, do it with love, or don't bother


ਮੰਨੈ ਧਰਮ ਸੇਤੀ ਸਨਬੰਧੁ ॥
The faithful are firmly bound to the Dharma.
ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥੧੪॥
||14|| Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. ||14||
ਮੰਨੈ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਮੋਖੁ ਦੁਆਰੁ ॥
. The faithful find the Door of Liberation.
ਮੰਨੈ ਪਰਵਾਰੈ ਸਾਧਾਰੁ
The faithful uplift and redeem their family and relations.
They do not do this by preaching, they do it by action, they do not try and convert, they are sewadars to the world

ਮੰਨੈ ਤਰੈ ਤਾਰੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖ
. The faithful are saved, and carried across with the Sikhs of the Guru.
ਮੰਨੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਵਹਿ ਨ ਭਿਖ ॥
. The faithful, O Nanak, do not wander around begging.
But even by finding enlightenment, one still has to earn a living, use your brain, use your intellect, there is no shame in economic success, use this good fortune to assist, rather than walking round begging and borrowing

ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
. Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥੧੫॥
||15|| Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. ||15||
ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਣ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ॥
The chosen ones, the self-elect, are accepted and approved.
ਪੰਚੇ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਦਰਗਹਿ ਮਾਨੁ ॥
The chosen ones are honored in the Court of the Lord.
ਪੰਚੇ ਸੋਹਹਿ ਦਰਿ ਰਾਜਾਨੁ ॥
The chosen ones look beautiful in the courts of kings.
ਪੰਚਾ ਕਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥
The chosen ones meditate single-mindedly on the Guru.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਕਰੈ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
No matter how much anyone tries to explain and describe them,
ਕਰਤੇ ਕੈ ਕਰਣੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਸੁਮਾਰੁ
the actions of the Creator cannot be counted.
So clearly it is up to each and every one of us to find this path, to ask questions, to answer questions, to keep asking, keep learning until all avenues are exhausted, and enlightenment shines like a big shiny thing.


I therefore have the hugest respect for anyone who puts themself on a pedestal and questions established ways, not in the hope of being lauded, but knowing full well they will be derided, they will have their turbans whacked off, they will be harassed, they are the ants looking for sugar, and they are always the ones that regret trying to describe the truth.

Moral of the story, listen to those who are facing an avalanche of shoes, and see those in big cars and mansions for what they are

 

[chazSingh]

Satnaam Sat Sangat Ji,

I haven't posted on this forum for a while (i used to post everyday) because i realised just how debating, passing opinions was destroying my focus and ability to Sit and do my simran. you see my friends...gurbani says if we want to 'realise' the truth we need to put effort into finding the truth.

Opinions of 99.9% of the people on the planet are there to cause confusion...and our worst enemy is our mind (computer) which wants to know 'when' 'where' and 'how' but doesnt want to put the effort into finding out itself.

You see, the mind can only determine things based on the onformation it contains from experiences....the Soul however has been true since the beginning, true now, and as nanak says will be true forever. The soul doesnt need to 'work things out' it doesnt need to 'calculate' and 'determine' if something is true or not...it works on 'INTUITION' 'amrit from the source/god' as i like to call it.

we can discuss on these forums all we like...and get big ego's if people agree with us, or get motivated to change someones mind over an opinion if our ego gets upset...
But we can all find the real answers if we but only try and make the effort

The TRUTH about How to find the TRUTH exists in the Guru Granth Sahib Ji. Yet we spend most of our time on forums when the path is already laid out in simple form...

'Still' the abrupt and crazy mind which is acting on experience (good or bad) of our pasts...and start to listen to your intuition.

we can all hear out intuition, but most of us start to 'think' 'wonder' and start asking questons of 'why' 'i want proof' etc....and then my friends we have lost the intuition.

simran will unlock all the answers you need...yet we dont spend enough time doing it.
Face your subconscious minds, empty your subconscious and start to hear your intuition.

God bless all.

 

[chazSingh]

Ambarsariaji,

ਮੰਨੈ ਤਰੈ ਤਾਰੇ ਗੁਰੁ ਸਿਖ
. The faithful are saved, and carried across with the Sikhs of the Guru.
ਮੰਨੈ ਨਾਨਕ ਭਵਹਿ ਨ ਭਿਖ ॥
. The faithful, O Nanak, do not wander around begging.
But even by finding enlightenment, one still has to earn a living, use your brain, use your intellect, there is no shame in economic success, use this good fortune to assist, rather than walking round begging and borrowing
Very True, but the most amazing thing is once you experience, you naturally want others to experience...
I've experience so much in such a short space of time since starting to do daily simran/meditation, that i just want to share and inspire as i go a long.
I would hope that if by Guru ji's grace that i become 'enlightened' as per say, that i would want to share with the whole world and want them to also experience themselves...but we all know the majority will want proof, explanations, reasons...and only a minute number will have TRUE faith and dedication

ਐਸਾ ਨਾਮੁ ਨਿਰੰਜਨੁ ਹੋਇ ॥
. Such is the Name of the Immaculate Lord.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਮੰਨਿ ਜਾਣੈ ਮਨਿ ਕੋਇ ॥੧੫॥
||15|| Only one who has faith comes to know such a state of mind. ||15||
ਪੰਚ ਪਰਵਾਣ ਪੰਚ ਪਰਧਾਨੁ ॥
The chosen ones, the self-elect, are accepted and approved.
ਪੰਚੇ ਪਾਵਹਿ ਦਰਗਹਿ ਮਾਨੁ ॥
The chosen ones are honored in the Court of the Lord.
ਪੰਚੇ ਸੋਹਹਿ ਦਰਿ ਰਾਜਾਨੁ ॥
The chosen ones look beautiful in the courts of kings.
ਪੰਚਾ ਕਾ ਗੁਰੁ ਏਕੁ ਧਿਆਨੁ ॥
The chosen ones meditate single-mindedly on the Guru.
ਜੇ ਕੋ ਕਹੈ ਕਰੈ ਵੀਚਾਰੁ ॥
No matter how much anyone tries to explain and describe them,
ਕਰਤੇ ਕੈ ਕਰਣੈ ਨਾਹੀ ਸੁਮਾਰੁ
the actions of the Creator cannot be counted.
So clearly it is up to each and every one of us to find this path, to ask questions, to answer questions, to keep asking, keep learning until all avenues are exhausted, and enlightenment shines like a big shiny thing.

Very true also...but who do we ask? who do we learn from?

a(n)thar joth paragatt paasaaraa ||
Deep within the self is the Light of God; It radiates throughout the expanse of His creation. Raag Maajh 126

and how do we experience and learn from it?

a(n)thar joth nira(n)thar baanee saachae saahib sio liv laaee || rehaao ||
God's Light shines continually within the nucleus of my deepest self; I am lovingly attached to the Bani, the Word of the True Lord Master. Raag Sorath 617

sabadh nivaaree aag joth dheepaaeeai ||6||
The Word of the Shabad puts out the fire of desire; God's Light illuminates and enlightens. ||6||

akathh kathhaa saachee prabh pooran jothee joth samaanee ||1|| rehaao ||
The Unspoken Speech of the True Lord God is perfect. Dwelling upon it, one's light merges into the Light. ||1||Pause||
Raag Raamkalee
897

parapa(n)ch baen thehee man raakhiaa breham agan parajaaree ||5||
He plays the flute of the universe in his mind, and lights the fire of God. ||5||

he plays the 'FLUTE' of the universe, the anhad shabad, the sounds on bani in his mind....and the light of god is lit
how beautiful this is

lets start to do this...will full faith...meditate on the panch shabad (5 primal sounds) SA TA NA MA AA (satnaam) or the mantra Waheguru...
these Shabad gurus will guide us and tune us into the 'The Unspoken Speech of the True Lord God' and hopefully we can be 'lovingly attached to the Bani, the Word of the True Lord Master'

everything is laid out so simply...so lets put the faith in and follow...and see what happens...and then share with everyone

Moral of the story, listen to those who are facing an avalanche of shoes, and see those in big cars and mansions for what they are
A person with Big cars and a big mansion can be full of Ego, desire, greed... on the other hand they could be so humble, desireless, and share their earnings with others...
i suppose its the state of their mind, and how much their spiritual heart shines forth as apposed to what they actually have.

God bless all.

 

[Harry Haller]

A person with Big cars and a big mansion can be full of Ego, desire, greed... on the other hand they could be so humble, desireless, and share their earnings with others...
i suppose its the state of their mind, and how much their spiritual heart shines forth as apposed to what they actually have.

Chazji

just to clarify dear brother, I am talking of those that preach, not in general. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any success provided it is born out of humility and truth. Of course it will take longer, but success and mansions are not an issue for me. Such through arrogance and lies however, certainly are.

I can think of several Sikh personalities who have all been excommunicated due to heresy, Kala Afghana comes to mind, and I can also think of other personalities who have all the trappings, the house, the black Audi, etc

 

[chazSingh]

Chazji

just to clarify dear brother, I am talking of those that preach, not in general. There is absolutely nothing wrong with any success provided it is born out of humility and truth. Of course it will take longer, but success and mansions are not an issue for me. Such through arrogance and lies however, certainly are.

I can think of several Sikh personalities who have all been excommunicated due to heresy, Kala Afghana comes to mind, and I can also think of other personalities who have all the trappings, the house, the black Audi, etc

Very True.

the problem is if there was a saint sitting in front of us wearing some gold, and also some other cheap metals...many on-lookers will think the saint is false because he wears items of value....

but in the eyes of a true saint...there is no difference in diamonds, gold, steel, plastic....all are just dust.

but people will still ask why is he wearing gold....a godly person will say 'why not'? all are natural substances in gods creation...the value has been created by the mind...by manmucks.

i remember hearing some people at my local gurdwara asking why the gurdwara purchased a mercedes people carrier car...they complained the temple guys were thieves...using up money for the wrong things..

But if they purchased the car based on build quality, confort during travel, reliability, how long the car will last, safety features...then why not a mercedes?

But if they purchased it out of Ego, greed, desire...then those minds are completely corrupt

 

[chazSingh]

Satnaam Sat Sangat Ji,

Please take the time to read this very short E-Book:
ANHAD SHABAD - The Celestial sound within
http://www.esnips.com/displayimage.php?pid=3987071

It beautifully describes the essence of Naam, Anhad Shabad that flows through creation, what Shabad Guru is, and how we can connect to the source - our creator Lord.

It has many gurbani quotes backing up the descriptions.

It is said that the length of our life is determined by a set number of breaths, not years and months...but breaths...

Lets all not waste any more breaths and concentrate with full faith on doing our Simran

My Guru is always with me, near at hand. Through simran and simran by
remembering Him, I keep Him with me ever.
-SGGS 394

and then maybe the follwing will take place

sc{ sbiw mnu m]ihAa pRiB Aap[ le[ imlaie .
‐ SGGS 35
The Shabad of the True one fascinates the mind;
And then God Himself arranges the meeting.
‐ SGGS 35

God Bless all

 

[Harry Haller]

Chazji

In the world of hunting, either for more sex, money, power, influence, the biggest game there is, is God. Why do we hunt God, why do we need to find him, Why is a meeting with God so important? The SGGS teaches us that we find God every day, we meet God every day, we have the chance to talk to God everyday, We have the ability to show our love for God, in a very real and physical way every day, when we have done this enough times, over enough days, then we will realise who God is, and that will facilitate our meeting, in my humble opinion.

Is is through interacting with Creation we embrace Creator, I am not quite sure who you are interacting with through Simran

Regards,

Harry

 

[chazSingh]

Chazji

In the world of hunting, either for more sex, money, power, influence, the biggest game there is, is God. Why do we hunt God, why do we need to find him, Why is a meeting with God so important?

The Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji teaches us that we find God every day, we meet God every day, we have the chance to talk to God everyday, We have the ability to show our love for God, in a very real and physical way every day, when we have done this enough times, over enough days, then we will realise who God is, and that will facilitate our meeting, in my humble opinion.
Satnaam Harry Ji,
What you are saying here is absolute truth, all of this will bring about humblenesss and help subside our ego. These are pre-requisites to the spiritual path. The more humble we become the greater the experience of god we can have. Ego and god are opposites.

Is is through interacting with Creation we embrace Creator, I am not quite sure who you are interacting with through Simran.
This is a topic in itself...but a lot of this has already been discussed in previous threads.

in very simple terms (backed by ther Same Sri Guru Granth Sahib Ji that you read).

We do not need to find god...he already exists within us...he is our consciousness, the divine light, life power, breath of life, sustainer...the rest is dust..if we overcome the negativity and control of the mind, we will start to experience again our TRUE selves, not the one dictated by the 5 thieves...but our True Divine selves....

This is what everything is all about...to wake us up, to shake us, to make us 'Remeber' what we really are, and what our TRUE attributes are...true love, compassion, truth, trust, complete purity...divine creatures walking the earth. that we are fearless, eternal, without hate etc etc. That we never ever die, that we are boyond time and space...that we are as described in Japji...

sarab kalaa kar thhaapiaa a(n)thar joth apaar ||
He has blessed us with all our energy, and infused His Infinite Light deep within us.

guramathee aap pashhaaniaa raam naam paragaas ||
Follow the Guru's Teachings, and recognize your own self; the Divine Light of the Lord's Name shall shine within.

eaeko pavan maattee sabh eaekaa sabh eaekaa joth sabaaeeaa ||
There is only one breath; all are made of the same clay; the light within all is the same.

Can gurbani be any more clear? why does our minds confuse things.

how can we 'REALLY' recognise god in everyone and evrything in creation, when we cannot even recognise god in ourself first?

When you will experience god in yourself, you will see god literally in all...not just in saying, but literally see, feel, experience, interact without a single thought of fear, hate, desire, anger etc etc.

jis dhaa jeeo paraan hai a(n)thar joth apaaraa ||
The Divine Light of the Infinite Lord, who owns the soul and the breath of life, is deep within the inner being.

sabh mehi joth joth hai soe ||
The Divine Light is within everyone; You are that Light.

guramukh joth nira(n)thar paaee ||
As Gurmukh, I found the Light deep within the nucleus of my self.



If you can experience that light with you, see that light within you, you will see god, experience him and no that YOU are the Light.

Please research what the Pineal Gland is. In children the pineal gland is very active...it has a similar cell structure to your eyes in that it can pick up light (but it is situated just under the brain.

The governments pump Flouride in our water, in our toothpaste...flouride clings onto the pineal gland and is scientifically known to stop the function of the pineal gland...so are substances like Aspartame (sweetener used in almost all DIET products) like diet coke, canderel...which are supposed to be the healthy alternative. Governents do not want a population of enlightened souls....enlightened souls do not require a goverment...only people in fear need a government. From a young age all these chemicals de-activate the pineal gland in our children...the mind takes over, the soul takes a back seat....fear, anxiety, hate, desire, greed, ego become the main players, true love becomes a thing only experienced in glimpses.

When you meditate on the pineal gland (third eye) using the power and force in the vibrations of gurbani...you are stimulating the gland to become active...from my own experiences, i can feel my pineal gland vibrate when i meditate on gurbani, and i can see the parkash of my soul....
its truely beautiful....

We can all do this..its our birthright...its our True self we start to experience...a clear communication between our self (soul) and our Body, means no confusion (mind) and more intuition (soul).

Try it daily...will full faith, love and commitment.

How much of Waheguru Ji we experience during this process depends on how humble and sincere we are....Seva is the tool to become humble...to build love for everyone around us...

It all works together...

This is just from my own experience...maybe i am wrong...i do not know...but i'm just following my heart...and living the experiences and noting the changes in my behaviour and my relationships with family and friends....everything on the outside starts to evolve and change as the Amirt inside of us starts to clean us up from the inside.

Regards,

Harry

God bless all

 

[Ambarsaria]

chazSingh ji thanks for your post. All well stated but I have a comment on one part,

When you meditate on the pineal gland (third eye) using the power and force in the vibrations of gurbani...you are stimulating the gland to become active...from my own experiences, i can feel my pineal gland vibrate when i meditate on gurbani, and i can see the parkash of my soul....
its truly beautiful....

Veer you have to answer one question versus the fetish you have about the pineal gland, etc. The question stems from, you have the ability and you state so to see the God/creator in all of creation. Why do you put any significance to this "pineal gland" thing to experience God/creator within you? Why you want to treat yourself differently than others who show creator/God in "Sehaj Subhai"/(all so calmly and naturally).

Kirtan and Simran based on the physical attributes of carrying these out can have lot of physiological attributes and manifestations. Many such being very enjoyable and experiential.

But we need to recognize the difference between using a given tool like Simran/Kirtan versus the end object which is recognition of God/Creator everywhere and manifesting in all in different ways. We try to make it more complicated and scientific than it really is.

Sat Sri Akal. mundahug

 

[chazSingh]

chazSingh ji thanks for your post. All well stated but I have a comment on one part,Veer you have to answer one question versus the fetish you have about the pineal gland, etc. The question stems from, you have the ability and you state so to see the God/creator in all of creation. Why do you put any significance to this "pineal gland" thing to experience God/creator within you? Why you want to treat yourself differently than others who show creator/God in "Sehaj Subhai"/(all so calmly and naturally).

Kirtan and Simran based on the physical attributes of carrying these out can have lot of physiological attributes and manifestations. Many such being very enjoyable and experiential.

But we need to recognize the difference between using a given tool like Simran/Kirtan versus the end object which is recognition of God/Creator everywhere and manifesting in all in different ways. We try to make it more complicated and scientific than it really is.

Sat Sri Akal. mundahug

I appologise if when i mention the pineal gland that it comes across as a fetish. I only really came across this a couple of months ago based on experiences that i was having and wanting to know what i was experiencing.

Everytime i experienced something new, something i couldnt understand i would do ardaas everyday asking waheguru ji to explain what was hapening so that i would not dwell and waste time on those experiences but so that i could close that door, and move forward...

the things about the pineal gland, the poisons put into our water and food, the chakras (or seven seas as described in gurbani) is really just information that i have come across in the past few months

there isnt any fetish...

I agree we don't need to make things difficult scientifically or wanting to know as much information as possible...

This new age is not about information...its about experiencing.
I delved into Simran with almost zero information about spirituality, or what i may experience...all i knew were 2 words which i grew a connection to during childhood and these are 'Satnaam' and 'Waheguru', so i sit and meditate on them everyday. It works for me...and i hope it works for others also.

I have no qualifications on sikhi, i am a sinner, a low life who is just putting the pieces together one by one as i experience things during my Simran and my Seva.

Guru Ji has put me on a path to experience the divine light within, and i hope that i become a better person who can be of more use to the community around me.

God bless all.