An Outsider's Thought On The 5ks

[SaintSoldier1699]

Sikhism is simple living at its best. Kundalini seems complex and generally unheard of until 3H0 brought it to the West.

So, how can something so simple be so complex ;-) if its for the masses?

Sikhism uplifts in a simple way, basic life lessons, associate with uplifted people and live a true doubt free life by not taking short cuts!

 

[linzer]

Yogi Bhajan gave them a cult to be attached to, one vice for another. Don't give me this "He was sooooo noble B******T. He was an opportunist who did this to make money which he made lots of.

 

[Harry Haller]

he was an opportunist who did this to make money which he made lots of.

I don't think he made that much money myself, but do peruse some of his websites,

a real tribute to Sikhi!

http://www.akalsecurity.com/

http://www.goldentemple.com/

I feel these are clearly more interested in spreading the message rather than money making, unless I am missing something,

Chazji is right though, we are moving away from the topic, and this is like shooting fish in a barrel

 

[chazSingh]

I don't think he made that much money myself, but do peruse some of his websites,

a real tribute to Sikhi!

http://www.akalsecurity.com/

http://www.goldentemple.com/

I feel these are clearly more interested in spreading the message rather than money making, unless I am missing something,

Chazji is right though, we are moving away from the topic, and this is like shooting fish in a barrel

God bless you.

should we stop opening businesses because we are truth seekers? you could argue that those business are for helping others? healthy food manufacturing? security for people?

god didnt create the creation so that we sit around in begging bowls..

i would think he wants us to share, earn honestly and seek the truth?

ofcourse there will be some rotten souls amongst there group..there are many in sikh circles and other groups ...but god bless the ones that are trying to live by these principles i would think Happy, healthy and holy apply to all mankind and not just to their group.

 

[chazSingh]

Sikhism is simple living at its best. Kundalini seems complex and generally unheard of until 3H0 brought it to the West.

So, how can something so simple be so complex ;-) if its for the masses?

Sikhism uplifts in a simple way, basic life lessons, associate with uplifted people and live a true doubt free life by not taking short cuts!

I agree, Gurbani is simple living...but why is 99.9% of the populations wondering around aimlessly? why are there forums like this fillled with 1000's of opinions over something written so simply in Gurbani?

Yogi Ji, got many many lost souls doing Amrit Vela, 5 banis, Simran, seva...even if only 1 of them is uplifted, then its a job well done
Yes, he got them doing Yoga, maybe those souls needed it.
I thank Yogi Ji, for inspring Snatam Kaur into Sikhi...she sings the most beautiful shabad that uplifts me every morning in Amrit Vela...even just for this...i thank him a thousand times thousands listen to her kirtan around the world...see how something good comes out of someone's effort to uplift others? how the ripple of love expands and spreads. Yet we so quickly go back to the isms of religion and forget the message of love which is beyond all religion.

what would those souls be doing without his help? still taking drugs? still lost in doubt? i wouldnt be listening to Snatam kaur every morning

The masses will always find negativity in someone trying to do good...but thats why the masses are still drowning in Maya i suppose.

 

[Harry Haller]

Chazji

Yes, he got them doing Yoga, maybe those souls needed it.

You are lauding concepts that are at odds with Sikhism.
Yoga is at odds, regardless that they may have needed it or not.

something good comes out of someone's effort to uplift others? how the ripple of love expands and spreads. Yet we so quickly go back to the isms of religion and forget the message of love which is beyond all religion

.



Your inability to concede a single point is admirable.

should we stop opening businesses because we are truth seekers? you could argue that those business are for helping others? healthy food manufacturing? security for people?

I for one find the marketing and money making using the Golden Temple as a brand distasteful. the name and image of Sikhism should not be exploited this way in the name of business, and nor should it be dragged through the courts.

 

[Kanwaljit.Singh]

Chaz Singh ji we are glad someone is here to voice their opinion in favor of 3HO.

All we are saying is that much of the Sikhi spread around has roots in Kundlini Yoga than the Gyan of the Gurus. They might say that Gurus have said this, two sides of coin, or anything else. It is very much visible how some of their practices have diverted from the traditions.

Yogi Bhajan might have started out like a 'saviour' or a 'guide' to those in distress, but people (and maybe he himself) made him larger than life, which never bade well for anyone.

Remember Guru Nanak speaks 'Kaho Nanak Hum Neech Karama' and 'Nanak Kahe Sunn Binoh Suhagan, Muu Das Dikha Pir Kehiya' !! SO FULL OF HUMILITY!

 

[chazSingh]

Chazji



You are lauding concepts that are at odds with Sikhism.
Yoga is at odds, regardless that they may have needed it or not.

.



Your inability to concede a single point is admirable.



I for one find the marketing and money making using the Golden Temple as a brand distasteful. the name and image of Sikhism should not be exploited this way in the name of business, and nor should it be dragged through the courts.

Satnaam Harry Ji,

I cannot judge a person based on what some of his followers decide to put on websites or what they decide to do with links that direct to their businesses. That is not Yogi Ji, and he is also not here today to do anything about it.

But i will stand up for the many that stand by him and feel like their life has been changed for the better due to the love and direction that Yogi bhajan passed onto them. that is the true wealth of a person.

Gurbani mentions yoga many times: 211

thoo(n) gur prasaadh kar raaj jog ||1||
By Guru's Grace, practice Raja Yoga, the Yoga of meditation and success. ||1||

har ras jin jan chaakhiaa ||
Those who taste the sublime essence of the Lord
thaa kee thrisanaa laathheeaa ||2||
have their thirst quenched. ||2||


So either Guru Ji is confused himself, or he's confusing us all for some reason or another? you decide.

Just like lucky Ji said..there is a difference between a ritualistic aproach and a pro-active approach that is backed by the love and thirst for gods presense, sat upon the seeds laid by charity, sharing, hard honest work compassion, forgiveness and love. which is why Gurbani mentions this with reference to blind practices.

I like to take the proactive approach and it serves me well for 'anything' i do in life now...otherwise everything we do is just a ritual. so lets keep planting the seeds...and Guru Ji will surely point us in the direction we need to go next.

God bless.

 

[linzer]

I don't have any problem with his business ventures accept when he comercializes Sikhi like using the Darbar Sahib like a logo,Ie. Golden Temple foods, passages of the S.G.G.S as mantra. It figures that you'd like Snatam Kaur as well. Do you approve of them celebrating the birthday of Guru Nanak on the banks of the sacred Ganges?http://www.11-11-11yoga.com/

 

[Ishna]

Snatam Kaur has a lovely voice, I listen to her Sohila at night sometimes. No need to bring her into the discussion. Perhaps the discussion about 3HO should be had in the 3HO thread?

My apologies to the OP for contributing to talking the thread away from discussion of the 5ks.

 

[chazSingh]

I don't have any problem with his business ventures accept when he comercializes Sikhi like using the Darbar Sahib like a logo,Ie. Golden Temple foods, passages of the S.G.G.S as mantra. It figures that you'd like Snatam Kaur as well. Do you approve of them celebrating the birthday of Guru Nanak on the banks of the sacred Ganges?http://www.11-11-11yoga.com/

God exists everywhere....i or anyone can celebrate Guru Ji birthday amnywhere...i do not see your point.

And the most sacred place to celebrate Guru Ji's birthday is in your heart, where he dwells. so in the physical realm it doest matter where you are...you could be on the moon, sat on a loo, or on a beach...he's with you at all times.

God bless all.

 

[chazSingh]

Snatam Kaur has a lovely voice, I listen to her Sohila at night sometimes. No need to bring her into the discussion. Perhaps the discussion about 3HO should be had in the 3HO thread?

My apologies to the OP for contributing to talking the thread away from discussion of the 5ks.

Dear Ishna Ji,

She was bought into the equation to highlight the goodness that came out of Yogi Ji journey to the west.
Not all, but many of the people he inspired, whether they became Sikh or not, are travelling the world spreading the message of peace and love.
you dont need ism's of religion to do that.

My deepest appologoes also for taking this thread into a different direction. By all means a new thread would probably be best.

Just remember, the image of sikhi can be tarnished very easily by others by looking at the behaviour of some of the followers...but that doesnt meant the message of sikhi is impure.

The same goes for what he tried to do, and for many succeeded i.e. in uplifting them out of the mess they were in (spiritually)

god bless all and the sangat

 

[Harry Haller]

Chazji,

I have started a new thread, this has been going on for a few pages now, it is unfair on the poster.

 

[chazSingh]

Chazji,

I have started a new thread, this has been going on for a few pages now, it is unfair on the poster.

Thanks

 

[Harry Haller]

have started thread http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/sikh-...houghts-kundalini-yogi-bhajan.html#post167987

and copied and posted the messages from this page

 

[Harry Haller]

last post on the topic in hand was p2 phew, have reposted it for sake of continuity

Posted BY Linzer

Originally Posted by Sicarius
I am a new Sikhi. I am a Latino, and was raised a Catholic. I feel that this empowers me in some ways to look at new religions objectively.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sicarius

I have respect for the 5ks, I understand their origin, and been moved by their meaning. However, what attracts me to Sikhism, is it's rejection of blind ritual and mythology. I consider the K's a choice in this way, as it is meant to honor the ancient history of persecution the Sikh's experience and their rebellion to it. However, to say a man has erred God by not wearing a beard, and a turban is obviously contrary core Sikh beliefs. This can be seen in that I believe it was the 9th or 10th Guru who introduced the obligation, thus making it something relatively new.

It was the 10th Guru, Guru Gobind Singh, but you should know that we regard all 10 gurus as the same illuminating force. Therefore it makes no real difference If it’s the first or the last. It’s is still and obligation for receiving amrit.
It's not necessary that you cut your hair,wear a turban or use any of the other 5k to go to Gurwara or study the S.G.G.S. .I know plenty of Indian Sikhs here in Mexico that don't but If one day you decide that you want to take Amrit then it would become an obligation.
I think that one day I will receive Amrit so I've started to use the 5 k's . I regard not cutting my hair as accepting how look I am without vanity. I think people in general waste too much of their lives by not accepting themselves as they are.
I go to swim three times a week and I find it hugely amusing that it takes me less time to get dressed, comb and tie my hair and beard( which is quite long now) than some fellows with very short hair. They stand in front of the mirror with gel and blow dryers trying to get that one imaginary hair to stay in place.
As to cleanliness, I think my hair is cleaner now than its' ever been since its always covered.
I wouldn't worry too much about it right now just keep reading Gurbani and Sikh history as well.
Maybe one day you'll change your mind. I did.

 

[linzer]

One last word, Chazji ,I need to say that you are the only person I know from 3HO that quotes Gurbani and I know quite a few. All the rest just quote YB. "the Maestro said" It gets tiresome.I don't necesesarily agree with your interpretation but keep up the good work. As for Snatam Kaur, yes, she has a nice voice but for me would be better suited to country western. I like traditional Ragas more, to each their own.swordfight

 

[Luckysingh]

One last word, Chazji ,I need to say that you are the only person I know from 3HO that quotes Gurbani and I know quite a few. All the rest just quote YB. "the Maestro said" It gets tiresome.I don't necesesarily agree with your interpretation but keep up the good work. As for Snatam Kaur, yes, she has a nice voice but for me would be better suited to country western. I like traditional Ragas more, to each their own.swordfight

I don't think that Chazji is from 3HO himself, but I think he holds some respect for them for the fact that they pursue meditation and simran. For that matter, I also value some of this approach and holds some respect for them.

With Snatam Kaur,I think she is a great artist and inspiration for the young. My kids have only started to pay some attention to kirtan after listening to and being inspired by her work. So , she should keep up her good work!!!

 

[chazSingh]

One last word, Chazji ,I need to say that you are the only person I know from 3HO that quotes Gurbani and I know quite a few. All the rest just quote YB. "the Maestro said" It gets tiresome.I don't necesesarily agree with your interpretation but keep up the good work. As for Snatam Kaur, yes, she has a nice voice but for me would be better suited to country western. I like traditional Ragas more, to each their own.swordfight

I can confirm i am not part of the 3HO organisation but i do intend to be happy, healthy and holy in my life....i think we can all be included in that

 

[Rory]

What is the difference between Raja yoga and Kundalini yoga?
Can anyone sum it up?